Is my burm underweight?

[afsgr88]

Hi everyone!

I believe my burm is underweight for his age. I weighed him today and he is on the 167g mark. I have been doing some research and all 5/6 month old burms I have seen are significantly bigger than mine.

The breeder had him on XL mice (between 25g and 30g) every 7 days. I already ordered some appropriately sized rats, because I want to make the switch as soon as possible, as I believe it should have been done already.

I wasn't able to measure him yet, but I will try on the next couple of days. He is for sure far from 1 meter.

Sorry if the measuring system is off, but I have no idea about inches and pounds x)

What's your opinion on this? Was the breeder not feeding him enough? Or is this the normal weight for his age?

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help, since I have never owned burms before.

[GyGbeetle]

My burm was grossly undersized and underweight when I got her. I believe she was being fed once a month, as a yearling, instead of once a week or even bi-weekly.

One word of caution is that if you increase their feed size too quickly, their bodies may not handle it as well. I would keep him on the feed that the breeder had him on, at least for the first couple of feedings, and then increase. That's just my 2 cents. That's what we did with Iris, and she has gained both length and weight since her October 2016 gotcha day. It was a slow increase, but steady.

[afsgr88]

My burm was grossly undersized and underweight when I got her. I believe she was being fed once a month, as a yearling, instead of once a week or even bi-weekly.

One word of caution is that if you increase their feed size too quickly, their bodies may not handle it as well. I would keep him on the feed that the breeder had him on, at least for the first couple of feedings, and then increase. That's just my 2 cents. That's what we did with Iris, and she has gained both length and weight since her October 2016 gotcha day. It was a slow increase, but steady.

I am not planning on increasing the feed size, I just want to put him on rats, same size as the mice he is feeding on at the moment. I don't want him hooked on mice. He already had one feed with me, and the next feed will be in a couple of days, but I won't use the rats just yet.

I would never force sizing up the feed too quickly. Unfortunately, I have the consequences (not in my snakes, fortunately).

I really just wanted to know if this weight is normal. And if it's not, I wanna give a little feedback to the breeder.

[GyGbeetle]

I don't know much about what's normal or not. A lot of my snakes came to me underweight/undersized to some extent. I don't focus much on their weight or size once with me. If you're feeding regularly, which it sounds like you are, and are keeping your due diligence with size and nutrition, that's all he can ask for.

I've gone back to a breeder once with suggestions, and it didn't go over too well. They were quite defensive, argumentative, and didn't really hear what I was trying to explain. sometimes breeders can be stubborn and not open to suggestions.

[afsgr88]

I don't know much about what's normal or not. A lot of my snakes came to me underweight/undersized to some extent. I don't focus much on their weight or size once with me. If you're feeding regularly, which it sounds like you are, and are keeping your due diligence with size and nutrition, that's all he can ask for.

I understand you have a lot of rescues, right? I am feeding regularly, but I am not really happy about feeding him mice, to be honest. I was always given the understanding that rats are more nutritious. And eventually I will have to switch, sooner rather than later. But I would never put him at risk.

I've gone back to a breeder once with suggestions, and it didn't go over too well. They were quite defensive, argumentative, and didn't really hear what I was trying to explain. sometimes breeders can be stubborn and not open to suggestions.

I was expecting that. It is my first time buying a snake from a breeder and I think the guy is pretty reliable. Perhaps one of the best here in Germany. So I am quite confused about this weight issue. Maybe someone can tell me more about it :)

[GyGbeetle]

Breeders tend to maintenance feed to keep overhead costs of their product low, and keep their size low. If the animal is healthy but slightly under the weight you expect, I wouldn't really worry too much about it.

I've read the same thing about rats having more dense-rich calcium than mice, but there are others on this forum that disagree with that. Either way, for younger snakes, mice or rat, it won't make much difference. When they get bigger, and older, you'll want to explore other food options. I'm currently exploring items that are less fat (jumbo rats are mostly fatty tissue to get the size up, so there isn't a lot of lean meat in there. Not sure about pythons, but boas tend to develop fatty liver syndrome from unhealthy fat content in their diet, so I'm going to see what else I can feed them in addition to the jumbo rats).

I wouldn't focus so much on the weight. Like I said, my burm was really tiny for a yearling. She wasn't even 3 feet long (~90 cm) when I got her in October 2016. Her head looked oddly disproportionate from her body (large head, tiny body. I don't have a scale so I can't weigh any of them, which I need to fix). Now she's over 5 feet long, 4 months later, and she looks more proportionate. We didn't stress about the feedings; just fed her once a week at a size that was about her girth for the first month, and then the 1.5 girth size after that. That's what I would focus on for now. That's my 2 cents worth of advice

[afsgr88]

Breeders tend to maintenance feed to keep overhead costs of their product low, and keep their size low. If the animal is healthy but slightly under the weight you expect, I wouldn't really worry too much about it.

To be honest, I am not actually worried :) He seems healthy, eats with no problems, and is fairly active. So my question was really more about curiosity than anything else. I am not alarmed at all, I was just curious to hear about the size of other burms at this age.

I've read the same thing about rats having more dense-rich calcium than mice, but there are others on this forum that disagree with that. Either way, for younger snakes, mice or rat, it won't make much difference. When they get bigger, and older, you'll want to explore other food options. I'm currently exploring items that are less fat (jumbo rats are mostly fatty tissue to get the size up, so there isn't a lot of lean meat in there. Not sure about pythons, but boas tend to develop fatty liver syndrome from unhealthy fat content in their diet, so I'm going to see what else I can feed them in addition to the jumbo rats).

I wouldn't focus so much on the weight. Like I said, my burm was really tiny for a yearling. She wasn't even 3 feet long (~90 cm) when I got her in October 2016. Her head looked oddly disproportionate from her body (large head, tiny body. I don't have a scale so I can't weigh any of them, which I need to fix). Now she's over 5 feet long, 4 months later, and she looks more proportionate. We didn't stress about the feedings; just fed her once a week at a size that was about her girth for the first month, and then the 1.5 girth size after that. That's what I would focus on for now. That's my 2 cents worth of advice

I didn't know people had divided opinions about rats. All I know is that I read many times that burms should be switched to rats as soon as possible, because some of them tend to be hooked on mice. And eventually, mice will get too small for them. Once again, I am not trying to experiment with anything here :D

Thanks for the advice though, it is always welcome :):)