Two on the Way

[Scubadiver59]

Salutations!

New to the herp hobby and I went, excuse the phrase, hog wild, on what I thought I needed for keeping snakes after reading forums, blogs, articles, etc.

So, several $$$ later I have tanks, UTHs, proportional temp controller, lights, substrate, hutches, you name it; however, my lingering concern is how to set up the temperature zones correctly. I understand UTH in one corner, say for example left/back corner, but where to put the lights, especially a heat/basking lamp and daylight light.

I won't open up with my ascii-style drawings just yet--but I have them prepared--in the interest of brevity for this first post, but I will be posting them in here if nobody has any objections until I can post Visio drawings (JPG version).

BTW, I have a Hypo Sunkissed Corn & Blotched King, both females, coming in the mail on Wed, 01 March.

Thanks for reading!

[Minkness]

Hey there! Your set up sounds good so far. Pics are always helpful. Super excited to se eyour new babes when you get them!

[Scubadiver59]

|--------------------------------------|
|xxxxxx wwwww cccccc|
|xxxxxx wwwww cccccc| X = UTH/Hot Hutch
|xxxxxx wwwww cccccc| w = warm hutch
|xxxxxx wwwww cccccc| c = cold hutch
|xxxxxx | ~ = water dish
| |
| |
| ~~~~~~ |
| ~~~~~~ |
| ~~~~~~ |
|--------------------------------------|
Fig-1

|--------------------------------------|
| /---\ /---\ |
| / \/ \ | NR = NightRed Incandesant (60w)
| | NR || RS | | RS = ReptiSun 10.0 (23w) (sunlight)
| \ /\ / |
| \---/ \---/ |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
|--------------------------------------|
Fig-2So, based on my first post, here are some questions:


During the day, with the ReptiSun on--is the UTH enough to provide the temperature on the tank warm side or do I need a basking light? Can the NightRed light provide the heat vice a separate basking light. Seems like a lot of light fixtures if so. I bought Zoo Med Dome Combo's for my tanks but I can buy another dome if needed.
At night, if the NightRed light is placed over the UTH--do you lower the temperature of the UTH or keep it constant and just adjust the NightRed? Or should I move it more to the center (reverse the lights)?
Back to another night question--do I lower the temperature at the warm end at night; or again, keep it constant at 80ish? My house is 75F all year round due to my dogs so I exepect the cold end to get around that temp.

Once again, thanks for reading and for any comments on my concerns.

[Minkness]

Snakes don't really need lights, but everything else looks good!

[TRD]

As long as heat is on one side of the enclosure and properly controlled the delivery method doesn't really matter (mostly). If it's a glass enclosure and a species which burrows a lot, a UTH might be a good idea in case they can reach the bottom. Make sure the thermostat probe is connected properly for the UTH - ie. it's either between the UTH and the glass on the bottom (so outside the enclosure) or if not possible directly on the glass right above the UTH inside the enclosure and fixed there in some way to make as much direct contact as possible. Do not put the probe above the substrate with a UTH and a species which burrows into the substrate. You CAN do that but then you need a temp gun to accurately set the thermostat so it doesn't get too hot under the substrate.

PS. you don't need UVB light with Kings and Corns (ReptiSun 10.0)

[Scubadiver59]

Thanks for the reply!

I already knew to put the temp probe between the UTH and the tank (40gal Zoo Med and 20&40gal Zilla glass terrariums). All probes will be monitored and controlled with a Herpstat-6, and I have analog and other LCD thermometers available to use for double-checking temps/humidity around/in all the hides. I do have a laser thermometer I bought for my computer systems--I Fold/BOINC for science once in a while with my multiple computers and servers and used it to monitor chip temps.

I also understand that there's that question as to whether or not UVB is beneficial to snakes, but I'm going to use the ReptiSun 10.0 as the daylight and fill in any additional heat requirements with the red. If I ever decide to get into the four-legged reptiles, I'll always have one available.

As long as heat is on one side of the enclosure and properly controlled the delivery method doesn't really matter (mostly). If it's a glass enclosure and a species which burrows a lot, a UTH might be a good idea in case they can reach the bottom. Make sure the thermostat probe is connected properly for the UTH - ie. it's either between the UTH and the glass on the bottom (so outside the enclosure) or if not possible directly on the glass right above the UTH inside the enclosure and fixed there in some way to make as much direct contact as possible. Do not put the probe above the substrate with a UTH and a species which burrows into the substrate. You CAN do that but then you need a temp gun to accurately set the thermostat so it doesn't get too hot under the substrate.

PS. you don't need UVB light with Kings and Corns (ReptiSun 10.0)

[Skipper7]

I understand why you're using some UVB. However, I wouldn't reccomend the 10.0. That is likely too much. I encourage you to use this source and find your snake species or species in similar regions to determine UVB strength. http://www.uvguide.co.uk/files/BIAZA-UVTool-VERSION-010-19Oct2015.xls

[Scubadiver59]

Thanks!

I'll have to look at it when I get home since the government computers don't allow us to go to all overseas websites.

I looked at the Zoo Med guide for the UVA/UVB lamps and saw the depth chart (Ferguson Scale), so I'll actually be outside the range of recommended light height (relative to pet) since my snakes will be about 12-14in below the light (and Zoo Med puts max depth at 10in) unless they climb any branches I put in the terrarium.


I understand why you're using some UVB. However, I wouldn't reccomend the 10.0. That is likely too much. I encourage you to use this source and find your snake species or species in similar regions to determine UVB strength. http://www.uvguide.co.uk/files/BIAZA-UVTool-VERSION-010-19Oct2015.xls

[Scubadiver59]

Habitats up and running...using paper towels until I'm sure there are no mites (seems common in the forum). I'll keep the two girls on paper towels until they eat a few times, and there are no mites (!); then, I'll put in the substrate.

Temps with the Herpstat-6 are stable: ~85 on the pads, ~76-77 mid tank, and 74.x on the cold end (digital Zoo Med thermostats reading at the back of the cold-side hide). I don't have any H2O in the tanks right now--I need to clean the bowls and fill them--so the humidity is in the mid to upper 30s. I bought some sphagnum moss so I can add a bit of that to the Corn's habitat to up its humidity, but I'm hoping the water will add a bit of moisture and make up the difference w/o the moss.

I'll take pictures of the new arrivals tomorrow when then arrive via FedEx. In the meantime, here are some pics of their new homes...

[Scubadiver59]

Just shot the laser thermometer and it was only 83.8 on the paper under the hot hide...will have to bump up the temp a few degrees on the Herpstat.

Trial and error I guess.... :rolleyes:

[EL Ziggy]

Good job scuba. You are dialed in and ready to go. Your enclosures are going to look even nicer tomorrow! :)

[Scubadiver59]

BTW...since I'm guessing that my two new snakes were most probably kept in drawers, would it be a good idea to tape up some papertowels to the sides of the vivs (need to get used to using these new words) until they settle down?

Right now the sides/front/back are open, tho the back is facing a contractor-white wall.

[saturnascends]

Nice looking tanks. Today's the day! Looking forward to seeing the new family members!

[EL Ziggy]

BTW...since I'm guessing that my two new snakes were most probably kept in drawers, would it be a good idea to tape up some papertowels to the sides of the vivs (need to get used to using these new words) until they settle down?

Right now the sides/front/back are open, tho the back is facing a contractor-white wall.

There are a lot of keepers that will cover three sides of the enclosure to help the snake feel more secure. It's definitely not a bad idea.

[Scubadiver59]

I've got some brown paper...I'll do that.

There are a lot of keepers that will cover three sides of the enclosure to help the snake feel more secure. It's definitely not a bad idea.

[GyGbeetle]

I've got some brown paper...I'll do that.

I still do this with my babies, mostly because the cats like to antagonize them from the outside. It's never a bad idea to give them a little privacy. they will use the hides when they want to sneak away too. I have one snake that loves to explore, so keeping her closed off stresses her out more than keeping the paper up around her tank, but you'll know your new baby's personalities, if this is a need for them.

[Scubadiver59]

Papered...and I'll keep an eye on their activity.

Ordered feeders this morning, early this morning, so they should arrive tomorrow and be ready for when they want to eat in a few days.

Had to take the Herpstat up to 89.5F to get the hot-hide temps up to 85F--alarms are set to 91F (high) and 87F (low).

Just waiting now...they're supposed to arrive by 1200 (noon) so FedEx only has 31m to make it here!

Anxious isn't the word...though my 3yr old Doberman is demanding to go out now to "p".

[afsgr88]

Looks neat! :D :D

[Skipper7]

If the lights are just aesthetic and the room gets natural light, you could leave them off as well during the adjustment from drawer to tank.

[Scubadiver59]

Light is actually reflected, no direct sunlight to that room except for early morning; in the winter, it gets a bit of direct light from an angle, but after that, anything else is reflected or ambient.

I guess I could turn the lamps off and see how the temps go...right now they're keeping the mid-viv temp at ~78F, cold corner is 75F. Maybe the slightly darker scene might calm the girls down more (?) and I'll turn them on when they become active.

If the lights are just aesthetic and the room gets natural light, you could leave them off as well during the adjustment from drawer to tank.

[Scubadiver59]

The two females arrived shortly after noon...I didn't take any pictures yet and only got the King on video since she was quite happy to explore at first.

I just wanted to get them into the vivs and settled in. I'll take some shots later today if the opportunity presents itself, through the glass, and sometime next week after they feed and some time has passed by (as everyone is want to recommend).

One thing's for sure, I'm a n00b at using the iPhone for video!

Thanks for all the comments and recommendations, I appreciate them all!

[Scubadiver59]

The King (queen?) is out and about again and provided a few opportunities. The photos are a little blurry, probably due to lighting conditions and a higher (software enhanced) ISO...not to mention shooting through the viv glass.

[GyGbeetle]

oh, hello there new snake! Aren't you so pretty?

[Skipper7]

The king is beautiful. I hope they all settle in well for you.
But.... is this a bit too stressful for you :yes:
I'll take some shots later today if the opportunity presents itself!

[Scubadiver59]

It ALMOST WAS! I was just about ready to jump in the shower, I needed to go to work for a few hours, and I was looking for the Corn...and I COULDN'T FIND HER!!

I lifted everything up and she was nowhere to be found...and then...I looked at the plant. There, up in the broad leaves of the FAKE plant, she was laying on a few leaves like she was thinking she was a Python or Boa. Scared the bejeesus out of me!

So, I left her there, took my shower, looked in on them again--the King was still cruisin and the Corn was still up in the leaves.

I'll see what the Corn's doing with I go home later tonight.


The king is beautiful. I hope they all settle in well for you.
But.... is this a bit too stressful for you :yes:

[saturnascends]

Very nice!! Love that little face.

[EL Ziggy]

Nice looking king. They're really fun snakes. :)

[Scubadiver59]

I suppose I'll carry any further conversations over in the respective threads for either the Corn or King...but I thought I'd put in a final "n00b" post that both snakes have eaten their first meal. I fed them last night about 2100 when I got home from work.

The King was in the hot hide when I offered her meal to her. I lifted the hide off, and started to offer her the pinky. She coiled and started thrashing her tail like she wished she had a rattle (wonder if all snakes were rattlers and just lost the rattle?). But I digress...when I got the pinky close enough she struck, coiled and started consuming. I replaced the hide and then, while she was still sucking the pinky down, went and got a wet paper towel to stick in the hide with her; when I returned, and put the towel in the hide, she got upset again and was thrashing her tail against the hide. Interesting thing to hear.

The Corn, well she wasn't as cooperative. She was hiding inside that fake hollow tree again and didn't want to come out; so, I placed the pinky at the main, front opening, turned out all the lights (had the red lights on), and closed the door. When I got up this morning and went to see if I had to pick up the pinky and throw it away, and feed her again tonight, the pinky was gone, and of course, so was she...hiding in the log again. Kind of anti-climatic with her. I hope that doesn't continue.

All in all a good thing, both snakes being feed frozen feeders. I warmed them up to about 98'ish but the Corn's meal was about 78 when she got to hers (ambient midpoint in cage). Now to get the humidity up, watch for clean up areas, and watch for sheds I guess.

[trailblazer295]

Tanks look great, looks like lots of extra space in that room ;)

King looks awesome. Crusing is common with some new snakes as they learn their home. My king is often out and about.

[Albert Clark]

Amazing set ups! Way to go with that Herpstat 6 too. You are in good hands there.

[Scubadiver59]

Yep, three bare walls! I don't think I'm ever going to stack and rack so I have room for something like another four tanks? Or a very large tank (carpet python?) and smaller tanks (geckos?) I don't want to go overboard since I'm getting close to my 60s and I want to outlive my pets, so only time will tell!

Tanks look great, looks like lots of extra space in that room ;)

King looks awesome. Crusing is common with some new snakes as they learn their home. My king is often out and about.