And then there was 12

[GyGbeetle]

Picked up snake #12 last night. Didn't mean to. My husband really wants our 9 year old boa to not be a virgin, so he looks for people with snakes that are willing to breed, and then finds these "rescues". Hennessy is rescue #2. She's beautiful, pretty skinny, has some facial anomalies, but most importantly, we not have 12 snakes :( I'm crying! Where are we going to put them all? She's in quarantine now, with a huge enclosure she came with.

I'll try and post pics later. She's a doll, but we have 12 snakes. 12! OMG!!!!

[afsgr88]

Wow, I wish I had the space to own 12 snakes :rolleyes:

Waiting for pictures :)

[Minkness]

Think about how I feel with 21 snakes! Ihave over 30 reptiles in total lol. And yes...still plan on getting a few more.

[GyGbeetle]

Think about how I feel with 21 snakes! Ihave over 30 reptiles in total lol. And yes...still plan on getting a few more.

I see your signature. It makes me chuckle every time I see it. My husband keeps joking we're going to be at 30 by the end of the year. Now I'm scared that he may be right.

[GyGbeetle]

My pic taking skills are pretty bad. But here are 2 pics with her in the enclosure. I'm trying not to handle her too much; on the ride home last night she was ALL over the place. I don't believe she was being handled at all. We spent a good hour cleaning out her enclosure too. It had caked on poop, and substrate, on the floor. It's all wood, with laminate flooring on the bottom; we sprayed it liberally with Nix, but I don't have much experience with wood enclosures so I'm praying she doesn't have any mites. Our other snakes are just finishing up a mite infestation, but we have glass/plastic/plexiglass enclosures, so it was super easy to clean everything.

She's underweight, but her skin looks amazing, so I'm not going to sweat the weight part. She's with us now, so feeding will be regular. She has no outward signs of any other issues, like RI or anything else. The place we picked her up at was FILTHY, and they were heavy pot smokers, so maybe she was stoned last night and that's why she was so active. She's just such a curious baby.

We bought her a hide; they didn't have a hide that she could even fit her head under. It was pathetic! They kept saying that she wouldn't sit underneath the warm side of the enclosure, and she was super cold when we picked her up. The second we put her down to sleep last night, she went straight into her hide, which is underneath the heat lamp, and that's where she was this morning when I said hello.

The water dish was horrible. Poop and substrate caked onto the bottom. I mean, how hard is it to clean out 1 water dish once a week? It's not that hard. I just don't get how people leave a water dish that dirty and think it's ok. In the wild, the water sources are aerated, so there is less of a risk for bacterial growth, but in captivity, you need to clean that stuff out often! So I scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed her water dish. It still has caked on dirt on the bottom, and I may just go behind my husband's back and buy her a new one, but at least she has clean water now.

She's pretty friendly. She sits in my office as we have another snake in quarantine so I can't put her there. We're waiting for the mite infestation to be done before we introduce the other snake to the herd. This little girl gets to stay in my office for at least 2 months :) (no wait, 12 snakes, I am not supposed to be happy about this!)

[EL Ziggy]

Congrats on the pretty new addition GyG. Looking forward to more pics. I know what you mean about acquiring multiple animals quickly. I've averaged 2 new snakes a year for the last 4 years. We have to be careful not to get overly enthusiastic and/or overwhelmed. I've finally gotten to know and respect my limits when it comes to keeping snakes. With the amount of time I spend cleaning and feeding I think I'm at maximum capacity right now with just 8 snakes even though 10 is a nice round number too (bad Ziggy :)). I really enjoy all of my critters but I want to make sure it stays fun for me and doesn't become too much like work. But as long as you can feed, house, and care for them properly then the more the merrier. :)

[GyGbeetle]

Wow, I wish I had the space to own 12 snakes :rolleyes:

Waiting for pictures :)

We actually don't have the room. If we didn't have 3 human kids, we would have a snake room and be able to have more.

All of our snakes are on big storage bins, as we don't have a shelving system setup yet. It's pretty comical. It looks terrible, but the snakes seem pretty content; they don't care that they are sitting on big grey storage bins. They only care that they are properly taken care of.

We have an albino burmese too (I saw your signature). She's a pretty girl, has such a cute personality.

[richardhind]

great new pick up there gyg,she looks loverly
some people shouldn't be allowed to keep reptiles when you see the state there vivs are in,at least she is in great caring hands now
ive got 8 and a litter of boas due next month just hope she dont have loads and any decent hold backs of course, oh and an hypo img im collecting in march

[GyGbeetle]

Congrats on the pretty new addition GyG. Looking forward to more pics. I know what you mean about acquiring multiple animals quickly. I've averaged 2 new snakes a year for the last 4 years. We have to be careful not to get overly enthusiastic and/or overwhelmed. I've finally gotten to know and respect my limits when it comes to keeping snakes. With the amount of time I spend cleaning and feeding I think I'm at maximum capacity right now with just 8 snakes even though 10 is a nice round number too (bad Ziggy :)). I really enjoy all of my critters but I want to make sure it stays fun for me and doesn't become too much like work. But as long as you can feed, house, and care for them properly then the more the merrier. :)

I hear you on not getting overwhelmed. I work from home and my husband doesn't work, so we have lots of time.

The only time it's get overwhelming is during mite infestation. We are on our first. Fortunately the one we have in quarantine is mite free, but we have 10 in the room where we found a few mites. So every week for the past month all 10 go through the mite treatments. I'm so over it. I can deal with poop, and water changes, and feeds, anything else but the mites.

[EL Ziggy]

I hear you on not getting overwhelmed. I work from home and my husband doesn't work, so we have lots of time.

The only time it's get overwhelming is during mite infestation. We are on our first. Fortunately the one we have in quarantine is mite free, but we have 10 in the room where we found a few mites. So every week for the past month all 10 go through the mite treatments. I'm so over it. I can deal with poop, and water changes, and feeds, anything else but the mites.

Grrrr mites, my worst fear! Best wishes with your treatment.

[Andy_G]

I am certain your thoughts are well intended, but if you don't have room for an animal, should you really be taking it in? I'd also say that you should really refrain from taking anything new in until you're certain you are rid of mites...if this new one has mites and you don't know it, you may mistake finding further mites as the original infestation, and if this new one has other things to deal with and the mites you are battling transfer something from this new snake into your personal collection, it could make quite the mess. I truly don't mean to be a drag or offend anyone, just putting some things out there to possibly consider going forward.

[GyGbeetle]

I am certain your thoughts are well intended, but if you don't have room for an animal, should you really be taking it in? I'd also say that you should really refrain from taking anything new in until you're certain you are rid of mites...if this new one has mites and you don't know it, you may mistake finding further mites as the original infestation, and if this new one has other things to deal with and the mites you are battling transfer something from this new snake into your personal collection, it could make quite the mess. I truly don't mean to be a drag or offend anyone, just putting some things out there to possibly consider going forward.

That's always the case with anyone bringing in a new animal to a collection, room or no room. This is why we quarantine for 2 months. Doesn't matter if I have 1 snake or 100 snakes; if the newcomer isn't adequately quarantined it's all for not.

We have 2 wings of the house; 1 for quarantine, 1 for mainstay. So we do have "room". It certainly doesn't look like a professional breeder's or keeper's house would, as we have wall-to-wall snakes at the moment in our mainstay room.

I am an adult and do very much understand when something is not best for the animal. I've been an animal rescuer for over 20 years. If it's not space, it's ensuring there's enough financing for both maintenance and vet costs, so nothing is done haphazardly.

[GyGbeetle]

I'd like to add too that regardless of whether we see the mites or not, we have taken the stance that ALL newcomers have mites, so they are treated in quarantine. Very low risk of commuting viruses if the mites cannot thrive. In the future I will probably also have blood tests done on all newcomers, which includes an IBD test if it's a boa/Python. An even lower risk of commutability. This is the stance I've taken with mammal rescues and I believe it's appropriate for snake rescues and too. Average blood panel + IBD is $600

[Andy_G]

That's always the case with anyone bringing in a new animal to a collection, room or no room. This is why we quarantine for 2 months. Doesn't matter if I have 1 snake or 100 snakes; if the newcomer isn't adequately quarantined it's all for not.

We have 2 wings of the house; 1 for quarantine, 1 for mainstay. So we do have "room". It certainly doesn't look like a professional breeder's or keeper's house would, as we have wall-to-wall snakes at the moment in our mainstay room.

I am an adult and do very much understand when something is not best for the animal. I've been an animal rescuer for over 20 years. If it's not space, it's ensuring there's enough financing for both maintenance and vet costs, so nothing is done haphazardly.

I' ve learned not to assume good or bad...especially with adults, and also unfortunately I have learned that years of experience can mean very little sometimes, but that's not the case here. I'm certain they're in good hands and it sounds like you have a great handle on everything. Don't shoot the messenger. ;)

[akane]

I'm closer to a snake a month lol I have no plans now until fall natives are ready though. There are a few odd things I'm just keeping an eye out for but it can't cost much. If I get the money that overweight red blood is still sitting there. It's unlikely. Really want a pair of nicely colored garter snakes or similar which already have a place to go and I'm wavering on banded water snakes but that would take a new setup.

[Andy_G]

Since you like bioactive, akane, my vote for you would be to hold out for garters because of how well they flourish in bioactive setups...too small to be destructive for most plants.

[GyGbeetle]

I' ve learned not to assume good or bad...especially with adults, and also unfortunately I have learned that years of experience can mean very little sometimes, but that's not the case here. I'm certain they're in good hands and it sounds like you have a great handle on everything. Don't shoot the messenger. ;)

Sorry, I'm sick and in a crappy mood and decided the internet was my friend :( no shooting the messenger. I'm going to bed now....

[trailblazer295]

Very pretty addition, this is probably the worst place for NOT buying more herps. Terrible influences all over and El Capitan is Minkness. You'll be at a nice round 20 in not time :p

[bigsnakegirl785]

She actually doesn't look underweight at all, although I'm sure she'll need some TLC in other departments, even female boas don't need all that much girth to be healthy. (In fact the idea females need big fat reserves and huge girth can be damaging to their bodies and longevity: fit, trim, and muscular should always be your goal.)

I also would talk with your husband about the breeding...just because he has a male snake doesn't necessarily mean he has to find a mate for him. Many of the babies in a normalxnormal (at least I'm assuming normalxnormal) will be unwanted, and they will go into the exact same situations you have been rescuing the females from (or worse!). As long as he doesn't actually go through with breeding them, I suppose it's ok for him to entertain the idea, but breeding shouldn't be done just because you think a snake shouldn't be a virgin (not that such a thing exists anyways). Keep in mind boas can have 10-30 babies on average and I've heard of 60+. You would have to house, care for, feed, and rehome all of those babies. If they're all normals, you're likely going to be selling them all wholesale somewhere for a pittance.

[Skipper7]

I second the above. You'll also probably have to invest in a rack system to house/heat babies. You will have to care for them for a least a while until they are feeding consistently. Also, consider who you can sell them too. Will that work in your current situation?

I'm not trying to attack you, your husband, or your husbandry. Sorry If I am stating the obvious. I considered breeding beardies at one point but decided against it due to a lack of space and funds. I also knew that I wouldn't be willing to sell them to inexperienced keepers... and the experienced keepers are probably looking for higher end morphs anyhow.

[GyGbeetle]

Skipper/BSG: I agree with you both. I don't want to breed, because I want to ensure we are selling them to capable homes, lifetime homes for them. All too often I see posts about people saying they are on to the next project, and want to unload snakes or do a trade. Or they are just tired of the snake and want to try something new. I'm not sure why but it rubs me wrong. And then there's the fact that I may not want to get rid of any of them, so we'll end up with the entire clutch of babies. We have a loooooooong way to go yet; he won't breed anyone for the first year we have them. We want to make sure both parties are healthy.

BSG: She doesn't outwardly look skinny, but you can feel every bone in her body. It definitely doesn't look like they fed her every 2 weeks like they said. We do our best to keep healthy and fit snakes; had an issue with a couple of our babies getting bigger than expected, and had to reduce their feedings to every other week earlier than our research indicated. They aren't even a year yet, but they got really round. Same thing with Fang, our big guy. We were feeding him every week when we first got him, and in 2 months he got round. So we reduced it, and now he's fit again.

She's doing well today. She's still pretty curious, but has been hanging out in her new hide. We have to modify her enclosure; it's all chicken wire on the top and the front, so all the moisture is escaping. It doesn't appear to be affecting her though.

[Andy_G]

I'm glad you will be modifying the cage as you couldn't have a worse material for nose rub than chicken wire.

[GyGbeetle]

I'm glad you will be modifying the cage as you couldn't have a worse material for nose rub than chicken wire.

I'm not sure if it's chicken wire, but it looks gross. It's metal.

What do you think about plexiglass on the inside? That's what we were going to do, and try to get some seals on the side. Otherwise, we may just go out and buy something else for her, either glass or plastic enclosure like the others. I have no experience with wood or this stuff

[Andy_G]

Plexiglass is a good choice and one of the less expensive routes to go.

[Skipper7]

hahaha! That was my next issue with breeding. I knew I would wind up keeping WAYYY too many!!

I feel the same way about people deciding to "move on" to new animals. It bugs me as well. Sorry if I sounded like a prick!

[GyGbeetle]

hahaha! That was my next issue with breeding. I knew I would wind up keeping WAYYY too many!!

I feel the same way about people deciding to "move on" to new animals. It bugs me as well. Sorry if I sounded like a prick!

You didn't at all :)

I really don't want to breed, unless we have an "educational" resource (zoos and traveling educators), but even then, I just don't trust hardly anyone, especially with animals. And babies are too cute; I'll end up falling in love with them all, name them, and never want to say goodbye. And then there's the issue with slugs. I don't think I could handle it.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Skipper/BSG: I agree with you both. I don't want to breed, because I want to ensure we are selling them to capable homes, lifetime homes for them. All too often I see posts about people saying they are on to the next project, and want to unload snakes or do a trade. Or they are just tired of the snake and want to try something new. I'm not sure why but it rubs me wrong. And then there's the fact that I may not want to get rid of any of them, so we'll end up with the entire clutch of babies. We have a loooooooong way to go yet; he won't breed anyone for the first year we have them. We want to make sure both parties are healthy.

BSG: She doesn't outwardly look skinny, but you can feel every bone in her body. It definitely doesn't look like they fed her every 2 weeks like they said. We do our best to keep healthy and fit snakes; had an issue with a couple of our babies getting bigger than expected, and had to reduce their feedings to every other week earlier than our research indicated. They aren't even a year yet, but they got really round. Same thing with Fang, our big guy. We were feeding him every week when we first got him, and in 2 months he got round. So we reduced it, and now he's fit again.

She's doing well today. She's still pretty curious, but has been hanging out in her new hide. We have to modify her enclosure; it's all chicken wire on the top and the front, so all the moisture is escaping. It doesn't appear to be affecting her though.

Yes, adult boas should be eating every 4-6 weeks, so it isn't surprising he got chubby on a weekly feeding schedule. As far as the babies, that's also why I start my babies out eating every 10-14 days as opposed to the usual 7-10 days. I've gotten great results in the 2 I've raised this way so far! As I start breeding, I'll probably do more experimenting on that matter.

I would just go ahead and feed her something appropriately-sized every 3-4 weeks, she should gain any weight she needs on that schedule. If you can get your hands on small enough rabbits, throw in a rabbit every other feeding. Rabbits are very dense and help to pack on the pounds. If she's under 7' I wouldn't go over maybe 9-10 ounces. If she's around 7' I wouldn't go above 1 lb, and 1/2 or slightly larger may be better. If she is underweight, you want her to gain weight at steady pace and not all at once. It's easy to overfeed on rabbits.

[Aaron_S]

Yes, adult boas should be eating every 4-6 weeks, so it isn't surprising he got chubby on a weekly feeding schedule. As far as the babies, that's also why I start my babies out eating every 10-14 days as opposed to the usual 7-10 days. I've gotten great results in the 2 I've raised this way so far! As I start breeding, I'll probably do more experimenting on that matter.

I would just go ahead and feed her something appropriately-sized every 3-4 weeks, she should gain any weight she needs on that schedule. If you can get your hands on small enough rabbits, throw in a rabbit every other feeding. Rabbits are very dense and help to pack on the pounds. If she's under 7' I wouldn't go over maybe 9-10 ounces. If she's around 7' I wouldn't go above 1 lb, and 1/2 or slightly larger may be better. If she is underweight, you want her to gain weight at steady pace and not all at once. It's easy to overfeed on rabbits.

What does length have to do with weight of a prey item? Wouldn't it be best to weigh the snake and use a percentage of that to figure out what size meal to have? You can have a length-y "fat" build or a length-y "skinny" build, it's still relative to the weight of the prey item.

Personally I'd use about 15% of the body weight of the snake on a 3 week schedule.

[GyGbeetle]

BSG: The boas were babies when they got big. Neither of them are even a year yet! They just really like to eat. So your suggestion of feeding babies every 7-10 days I think will be helpful. We have 3 more babies that we've been feeding every 7 days (all of our babies are fed every 7 days, so I don't know what happened with these 2. But they're leaning out now, on every 2 weeks feed, so that's good).

For the new one, Hennessy, I'm worried about throwing in a rabbit. Will she go back to rats once she gets a taste for the better stuff? I don't want to confuse her at all. She's had 1 feeding with us, and she took it like a champ, no regurg or issues. It was a jumbo rat, which is what her previous human claimed to be feeding her. Honestly, I don't think he really was. We picked her up from ... I can't even describe it. They smoked inside the house. She had no heat source. Her enclosure was filthy, and she was curled up in a spot in the this HUGE cage, almost in fear. Still angry about it. So I take what he said her feeding schedule was with a grain of salt. All I can control is what we give her moving forward.

I just found a good online rat source. Do you know of a good online rabbit source?

[Andy_G]

What does length have to do with weight of a prey item? Wouldn't it be best to weigh the snake and use a percentage of that to figure out what size meal to have? You can have a length-y "fat" build or a length-y "skinny" build, it's still relative to the weight of the prey item.

Personally I'd use about 15% of the body weight of the snake on a 3 week schedule.

*nods in agreeance*

[bigsnakegirl785]

What does length have to do with weight of a prey item? Wouldn't it be best to weigh the snake and use a percentage of that to figure out what size meal to have? You can have a length-y "fat" build or a length-y "skinny" build, it's still relative to the weight of the prey item.

Personally I'd use about 15% of the body weight of the snake on a 3 week schedule.

No, because the older and bigger a boa gets the less food it should be eating. An adult boa eating 10-15% of its weight is eating more food than a baby eating 10-15% of their weight. This is taking into consideration a rat/rabbit 10-15% of an adult's weight is bigger compared to their girth, and adults have only a fraction of the metabolism of a baby. None of my adults get anything larger than a regular large rat (150-270 grams on average, no larger than 290 grams at the most). If they require rats any larger than that, I do a mix of larges and whatever size rabbit I deem necessary, but I'm not thinking I'll go with a rabbit over 1 lb even if I had a monster 8'-9' boa.

That means my 13.5 lb female is getting rats 2.4-4.7% of her weight. She has yet to be fed rabbits, but I'm thinking 1/2-1 lb rabbits every other feeding will be sufficient. I will have to tweak that as I see how her body tone does over an extended period of time. So the rabbits are 3.7-7.4% of her weight. She gets one of those every 4 weeks.

My 8.5-9 lb male gets the large rats and 4-10 ounce rabbits once every 4-5 weeks and is fasted 90 days each winter. At his lightest he's getting rats 3.9-7.5% and rabbits 2.9-7.4% of his weight. At his heaviest that's rats 3.7-7.1% and rabbits 2.8-6.9% of his weight.

Feeding an adult 15% of its weight every 3 weeks is a good way to obesity and fatty liver disease.

I do also want to add in the case of the smaller male, the rats are very close to his girth. A rat 15% of his weight could easily be 2-2.5x his girth. The rats are about 3/4 of the female's girth, and a full 1 lb rabbit would likely be about equal to or larger than her girth. A rat/rabbit 15% of her weight would easily be 1.5-2x her girth. Vin Russo says in his book that all meals should leave a barely noticeable lump. These size meals would leave a quite considerable bump.

BSG: The boas were babies when they got big. Neither of them are even a year yet! They just really like to eat. So your suggestion of feeding babies every 7-10 days I think will be helpful. We have 3 more babies that we've been feeding every 7 days (all of our babies are fed every 7 days, so I don't know what happened with these 2. But they're leaning out now, on every 2 weeks feed, so that's good).

For the new one, Hennessy, I'm worried about throwing in a rabbit. Will she go back to rats once she gets a taste for the better stuff? I don't want to confuse her at all. She's had 1 feeding with us, and she took it like a champ, no regurg or issues. It was a jumbo rat, which is what her previous human claimed to be feeding her. Honestly, I don't think he really was. We picked her up from ... I can't even describe it. They smoked inside the house. She had no heat source. Her enclosure was filthy, and she was curled up in a spot in the this HUGE cage, almost in fear. Still angry about it. So I take what he said her feeding schedule was with a grain of salt. All I can control is what we give her moving forward.

I just found a good online rat source. Do you know of a good online rabbit source?

Actually, I advised 10-14, the usual advise is 7-10 days, but I feel that's too often for a baby.

I get my rabbits for free from my father, so unfortunately I do not have an online source to share. Layne Labs sells rabbits, but their shipping is cost-prohibitive for me (I live on the opposite coast), I'm not sure what it would be like for you. Rodent Pro also sells them, but I'm leery about using or advising them.

[Skipper7]

Beetle- Are there any small weekly animal expos or small farms near your house? Generally either of these would have someone willing to sell you rabbits. Unfortunately, they would probably be live.

BSG- Why don't you reccomend RodentPro?

[GyGbeetle]

Beetle- Are there any small weekly animal expos or small farms near your house? Generally either of these would have someone willing to sell you rabbits. Unfortunately, they would probably be live.

BSG- Why don't you reccomend RodentPro?

We have a few shows, but I'm cautious about going to those shows, because the last show we went to, we brought home mites. So unless I'm willing to strip down in the garage, and go immediately into the shower when getting into the house (and most likely we will be taking kids to these things), I try to limit going now because I don't know how we brought home the mites (maybe in my hair? I just don't know, and do not want to go through this again). I will ask my husband to look around for a local resource. He's fine with handling live; I'm not. The sounds they make, and death hugs from the snakes, I just can't do it.

[Aaron_S]

No, because the older and bigger a boa gets the less food it should be eating. An adult boa eating 10-15% of its weight is eating more food than a baby eating 10-15% of their weight. This is taking into consideration a rat/rabbit 10-15% of an adult's weight is bigger compared to their girth, and adults have only a fraction of the metabolism of a baby. None of my adults get anything larger than a regular large rat (150-270 grams on average, no larger than 290 grams at the most). If they require rats any larger than that, I do a mix of larges and whatever size rabbit I deem necessary, but I'm not thinking I'll go with a rabbit over 1 lb even if I had a monster 8'-9' boa.

That means my 13.5 lb female is getting rats 2.4-4.7% of her weight. She has yet to be fed rabbits, but I'm thinking 1/2-1 lb rabbits every other feeding will be sufficient. I will have to tweak that as I see how her body tone does over an extended period of time. So the rabbits are 3.7-7.4% of her weight. She gets one of those every 4 weeks.

My 8.5-9 lb male gets the large rats and 4-10 ounce rabbits once every 4-5 weeks and is fasted 90 days each winter. At his lightest he's getting rats 3.9-7.5% and rabbits 2.9-7.4% of his weight. At his heaviest that's rats 3.7-7.1% and rabbits 2.8-6.9% of his weight.

Feeding an adult 15% of its weight every 3 weeks is a good way to obesity and fatty liver disease.

I do also want to add in the case of the smaller male, the rats are very close to his girth. A rat 15% of his weight could easily be 2-2.5x his girth. The rats are about 3/4 of the female's girth, and a full 1 lb rabbit would likely be about equal to or larger than her girth. A rat/rabbit 15% of her weight would easily be 1.5-2x her girth. Vin Russo says in his book that all meals should leave a barely noticeable lump. These size meals would leave a quite considerable bump...

That's a lot of words for not answering my question. I asked, what does length have to do weight of a prey item? You went through a lot of numbers and explanation that didn't prove your original fact.

For the record, I made a recommendation for this specific snake, not your well taken care of since birth snakes. That is why I went with a 15% weight of prey item every 3 weeks. That's a regime I'd begin with and then move further out. There's also a possibility this snake may be bred which is why I'd want a little more weight on her now and then slide back her feeding amount/frequency.

I do not like leaving large lumps in my snakes either so I'd trim down to a 10% food item to avoid that.

[GyGbeetle]

So I just picked up a boaphile 3' x 2' x 18" cage today, along with a 6' long monster of a boaphile cage (to be used for one of our large babies). The only issue is that the top of the cage is net, not solid, but it's all enclosed. I'm bordering on whether I should use this, or still purchase an Animal Plastics cage for the CRB. I'm going to try and purchase the snake this weekend, and ask if they'll hold her for a couple of weeks while we figure it out. He's done it for other customers, and we've spent about $10,000 of product since June of last year in his store, so I'm thinking he won't mind. Assuming she's still there.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Beetle- Are there any small weekly animal expos or small farms near your house? Generally either of these would have someone willing to sell you rabbits. Unfortunately, they would probably be live.

BSG- Why don't you reccomend RodentPro?

Because of low quality feeders and zoonotic outbreaks. Even if they never happened, you can never be too careful, and there's been multiple reports over the years.

That's a lot of words for not answering my question. I asked, what does length have to do weight of a prey item? You went through a lot of numbers and explanation that didn't prove your original fact.

For the record, I made a recommendation for this specific snake, not your well taken care of since birth snakes. That is why I went with a 15% weight of prey item every 3 weeks. That's a regime I'd begin with and then move further out. There's also a possibility this snake may be bred which is why I'd want a little more weight on her now and then slide back her feeding amount/frequency.

I do not like leaving large lumps in my snakes either so I'd trim down to a 10% food item to avoid that.

I had re-read the thread because I had no clue what you were referring to.

The length is important because a boa that's over 7' starts getting too big for a regular large rat by itself to be an adequate meal by itself. By 8' a mix of rabbits becomes almost a necessity just because of the sheer size of the snake. As a snake grows, so does its food size, so I just assumed anyone reading would have been able to apply that knowledge to my reply.

Once a boa reaches 6', I've found that the increase in prey size can be measured by the foot with maybe a little adjustment made for the individual if they show to have a particularly fast or slow metabolism. Whatever helps them to maintain a healthy body shape. I figured knowing the snake's length would give me a good idea of the size and a good place to start with prey size, so that it would be easier to adjust to the snake's needs if necessary.

I provided the numbers in an attempt to show why length was important. My smaller male gets smaller rabbits and my bigger female gets bigger rabbits, but both get the same size rats simply because I do not trust the fat content in retired breeders. So that's why there's a discrepancy there.

Even a female being bred doesn't need to be pumped full of food to breed - in fact, building up fat reserves is what kills females or contributes to failed litters. You don't want fat, you want strong muscle mass, which can be achieved by just feeding them like you normally would and offering chances for exercise. If you did increase feeding before breeding, I wouldn't do it by much. Maybe a week more frequent or a slightly bigger meal while courting, but 10-15% is a huge jump to make from what they should be eating normally, that's double or more the size of what I feed mine. My proven jungle had a perfect litter (no stillborns or slugs) at only 9 lbs, I think she was around 7.5 lbs after giving birth. They key was that she was mature and muscly, not built up for breeding. If the snake was emaciated, I would advise a slightly different feeding schedule, but a slightly underweight snake should do fine on a similar schedule. The meals don't have to be quite as small as mine while the snake needs to gain weight, but even in a case like that I believe 10-15% to still be too much. You want a slow, steady weight gain so as not to flood their system.

Also, I'm fairly sure GyBeetle has addressed they do not want their husband breeding the boas, so I think it's safe to assume that for the time being these females will not bred, at the moment anyways.

[GyGbeetle]

BSG: none of our females are ready to breed, so we're safe this breeding season. I'm going to try and find a good rabbit resource. But I'm worried about switching them from rabbit to rat. Has that been an issue in your experience?

[bigsnakegirl785]

BSG: none of our females are ready to breed, so we're safe this breeding season. I'm going to try and find a good rabbit resource. But I'm worried about switching them from rabbit to rat. Has that been an issue in your experience?

Nope, boa constrictors are garbage disposals. Which is both good and bad, they're easy to feed, but that means it's easy for people to overfeed them.

I wouldn't go to just rabbits, I'd still give rats every other feeding. Rabbits are nutrient-dense and even though they're lean on fat, they can still get chubby on them very quickly. If you fed just rabbits I'd go more to every 6-8 weeks. I only feed my rabbits as often as I do because I try to keep them about equal to rat size, and I feed a rat every other feeding. I don't start them on rabbits until they're at least big enough to eat rabbits that are fully mobile so they're either weaned or close to it, so 6'+.

[GyGbeetle]

Nope, boa constrictors are garbage disposals. Which is both good and bad, they're easy to feed, but that means it's easy for people to overfeed them.

I wouldn't go to just rabbits, I'd still give rats every other feeding. Rabbits are nutrient-dense and even though they're lean on fat, they can still get chubby on them very quickly. If you fed just rabbits I'd go more to every 6-8 weeks. I only feed my rabbits as often as I do because I try to keep them about equal to rat size, and I feed a rat every other feeding. I don't start them on rabbits until they're at least big enough to eat rabbits that are fully mobile so they're either weaned or close to it, so 6'+.

I only have 2 that are this size; Fang and Hennessy (the new girl). Edward and Bella both aren't yet a year old. Fang I'm worried about; he was eating every 2-3 weeks before we started babysitting. We switched him to every week, then went back down to 2-3 weeks. But I can feel some fatty lumps going up him. He's leaned out quite a bit, and we try to exercise him often. He had these "lumps" when we first started to babysit. I don't know if that's just his skin, or if it's something to be concerned with. Since all of our other boas are babies, I have nothing to compare it to.

[Aaron_S]

...I had re-read the thread because I had no clue what you were referring to.

The length is important because a boa that's over 7' starts getting too big for a regular large rat by itself to be an adequate meal by itself. By 8' a mix of rabbits becomes almost a necessity just because of the sheer size of the snake. As a snake grows, so does its food size, so I just assumed anyone reading would have been able to apply that knowledge to my reply....

Interesting....you use length of the animal and then determine the correct WEIGHT of the prey item off that. You understand you're using two different units of measurement and trying to correlate them correct?

Length has nothing to do with prey item in my eyes. It's about weight of the animal versus weight of the prey item. There's exceptions to every rule and sometimes you need to make adjustments for specific animals or prey items, etc. (I added the disclaimer because someone will come and tell me about their ONE animal)

I won't be responding to any more of this, only because it will become circular at this point.

BSG: none of our females are ready to breed, so we're safe this breeding season. I'm going to try and find a good rabbit resource. But I'm worried about switching them from rabbit to rat. Has that been an issue in your experience?

Boas are beasts when it comes to food. I don't expect you should encounter any issues switching.

[GyGbeetle]

Boas are beasts when it comes to food. I don't expect you should encounter any issues switching.

good to know! I did have a picky boa baby at one point, but she didn't survive, sadly :( So I'm hypervigilant now whenever there's even a slight issue with feeding. One of our latest babies regurged her first 2 meals with us back in November, which terrified me. But everyone has been on a steady feeding schedule, with no issues ever since.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I only have 2 that are this size; Fang and Hennessy (the new girl). Edward and Bella both aren't yet a year old. Fang I'm worried about; he was eating every 2-3 weeks before we started babysitting. We switched him to every week, then went back down to 2-3 weeks. But I can feel some fatty lumps going up him. He's leaned out quite a bit, and we try to exercise him often. He had these "lumps" when we first started to babysit. I don't know if that's just his skin, or if it's something to be concerned with. Since all of our other boas are babies, I have nothing to compare it to.

I think once they get them, they never go away. I unknowingly power fed my first boa, and even 3 years later he still has those fatty balls down his sides. As long as the boa is healthy now, I wouldn't worry too much about it I don't think, since it's been there for a while.

Interesting....you use length of the animal and then determine the correct WEIGHT of the prey item off that. You understand you're using two different units of measurement and trying to correlate them correct?

Length has nothing to do with prey item in my eyes. It's about weight of the animal versus weight of the prey item. There's exceptions to every rule and sometimes you need to make adjustments for specific animals or prey items, etc. (I added the disclaimer because someone will come and tell me about their ONE animal)

I won't be responding to any more of this, only because it will become circular at this point.

Boas are beasts when it comes to food. I don't expect you should encounter any issues switching.

It's...actually not? The only ones I do by weight are my rabbits, and that's because I get them from my father. How else am I supposed to size them? I can't just walk up to him and ask, "Hey can I get an xx-small rabbit?" He wouldn't know what I meant, and I don't know how old a rabbit is to get to a certain size. So, going by weight is the easiest method.

[Aaron_S]

... If she's under 7' I wouldn't go over maybe 9-10 ounces. If she's around 7' I wouldn't go above 1 lb, and 1/2 or slightly larger may be better. ...

...It's...actually not? The only ones I do by weight are my rabbits, and that's because I get them from my father. How else am I supposed to size them? I can't just walk up to him and ask, "Hey can I get an xx-small rabbit?" He wouldn't know what I meant, and I don't know how old a rabbit is to get to a certain size. So, going by weight is the easiest method.

I quoted both so you knew where I was getting my information from. Your first quote is using length to measure the weight of the prey size of rabbits. Your second quote is taking that back...

Why use length to determine weight/size of prey items?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I quoted both so you knew where I was getting my information from. Your first quote is using length to measure the weight of the prey size of rabbits. Your second quote is taking that back...

Why use length to determine weight/size of prey items?

I'm saying that because that's the size of prey I am feeding my 7' female, and I am using those weights because that size of rabbit is roughly equal to her girth or smaller. It's literally just like saying "feed this size of snake a small rat etc." I'm just using a weight range instead of the size name.

A 7' boa will roughly have the girth to accommodate the size of rabbit that is between x and y weight, while a 6' boa will roughly have the girth to accommodate the size of z and x weight. If they have the girth to eat something larger without getting a bulge, chances are they're overweight and the smaller prey size would still be appropriate.

If you reaaaally wanted to insist on a weight-based method, adult boas should be getting no more than 5-7% of their weight monthly on average (a little more or less every once in awhile is fine). This includes slightly underweight and overweight/obese snakes. Emaciated snakes would require much smaller meals more frequently with the prey size and frequency moving up and out until they put on weight.

Unfortunately a weight-based method would still have a grossly overweight/obese snake eating far too large of meals, and would not facilitate weight loss in the same way feeding a set prey size for x size snake would. Or an underweight/emaciated snake eating too large of meals.