Retic? NO!

[MartinD]

I am looking at adding this beautiful Dwarf Purple Albino retic to my collection. He is 5yrs old 6ft.

Thanks to Dave himself for the heads up on the breeder.

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[dave himself]

Who's the breeder?

[MartinD]

Marcus Brunning of Go Retics

[Tsubaki]

Beautiful retic but he sounds stunted, 6ft for a 5 year old is really small even for a dwarf, those are superdwarf sizes.. I'd expect one to be 9ft minimum at that age. My 8 year old dwarf male is around 15ft.. Now.. Selayar are generally bigger than the avarage dwarves, but it shouldn't be this much of a difference.. this animal sounds maintenence fed. Never had a dwarf male stay that small feeding normally, and I focused my breeding on mainly dwarfves..

[MartinD]

I was looking for a SD retic because of the size so this guy is ideal for me. He was taken in around 6 months ago as a Dwarf Purple Albino Breeder, but this guy has never bred him as he has his own breeders.

Marcus said "It's mostly down to food, he's adult now and kept on a normal feeding schedule"

[dave himself]

Like most big breeder's Marcus does under feed his males but the reason I told Martin to contact him was, he's well known for his honesty within the UK. He's a beautiful snake mate :)

[MartinD]

Like most big breeder's Marcus does under feed his males but the reason I told Martin to contact him was, he's well known for his honesty within the UK. He's a beautiful snake mate :)

Thanks Dave, yes so far Marcus has been really friendly and helpful and at 5yrs old - thats the snake, not Marcus - I won't have to go through the 'terrible two's' tantrums lol

[Tsubaki]

Well then I hope they were honest about his age, his size is quite unrealistic. He must have been nearly starved..

[dave himself]

Thanks Dave, yes so far Marcus has been really friendly and helpful and at 5yrs old - thats the snake, not Marcus - I won't have to go through the 'terrible two's' tantrums lol

No mate Marcus definitely isn't a 5 year old :D

[EL Ziggy]

Very nice critter Martin! Congrats on the hot new addition!

[MartinD]

Well then I hope they were honest about his age, his size is quite unrealistic. He must have been nearly starved..
I have watched a YouTube vid by Jay Brewer of Prehistoric Pets about keeping retics small and he said he's had 5yr old's at 5ft, but never bred them. It did make me think about what you said and since Ive seen this vid I feel a lot better

Very nice critter Martin! Congrats on the hot new addition!
Thank you

[SWDK]

That's a beautiful retic! I'd go for it 100%. Hope it ends up in your collection.

[MartinD]

That's a beautiful retic! I'd go for it 100%. Hope it ends up in your collection.

Thanks, I'm 99.999999999999% sure, just waiting for the guy to come back to me.

[sirtalis]

Nice looking snake, but I agree with everyone else, if it really is 5 years old then it seems pretty small imo

[MartinD]

Nice looking snake, but I agree with everyone else, if it really is 5 years old then it seems pretty small imo

I have seen a few YouTube vid's from Jay Brewer and he has said what a lot of other people have said, stuff your snake with food and it will grow, be conservative and you can have a snake the size you want.

[Tsubaki]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think an animal should be fed to the size you want it, it should be fed normally and grow to whatever size it gets. I strongly dislike powerfeeding / maintenance feeding. Retics grow big.. Dwarves still get pretty big ., if you can't handle it buy a superdwarf. It's that easy, they come in a multitude of sizes, no need to underfeed. Anyway, not to bash you or your animal, you're not who stunted him I'm sure you'll love him. Hope you update regularly because he is gorgeous! And I truly hope he doesn't have any health issues from being stunted.

[MartinD]

Thanks Tsubaki, Its just that I wanted to make sure that I didn't end up with something 15ft or more. He will be fed the same as my other snakes are, thats every 14 days and fed with the appropriate size food, I can guarantee I won't allow him to go hungry or starve him, thats a promise.

[Tsubaki]

Sounds good, :D

[bigsnakegirl785]

Conservatively feeding a snake doesn't keep it small, it causes it to grow at a slower more healthy rate. It does not make a snake stay small.

Maintenance feeding on the other hand, is purposely starving/underfeeding a snake to keep it small and is much different than conservatively feeding, as when conservatively feeding a snake they will still get enough food to thrive.

I agree with Tsubaki here and think maintenance feeding is highly unethical. There's nothing you can do about this snake's history, though. Just keep in mind if you don't continue to underfeed it for the rest of its life it can still get bigger.

[MartinD]

Thanks for all your input guys and I agree with the Tsubaki and BSG that 'maintenance feeding is highly unethical'. The more I think about it the more I'm thinking of going for a proven SD and giving this guy a miss, because I've got a gut feeling that I can't shift. I normally go with my gut feelings, the only time I didn't listen to my gut feeling it nearly cost me my life, something is not right here and I can't get rid of the feeling.

I have just contacted the guy and told him I will take one of his proven SD retic's instead.

[Andy_G]

Maintenance feeding used to be the term for when a breeder is feeding the hatchlings they produce enough to "maintain" them until sale for a very short term (a couple of months) so they can cut down on food costs and the potential customer can see lots of growth once they make their purchase...which is fine...but apparently that's not what it means anymore...oh how things change!

Although that is a very beautiful snake, I would have to agree with what the others said. You're probably making a wise decision going with an SD instead.

[MartinD]

Well the outcome of today's actions is this little guy.
He's a Cb15 62.5% Super Dwarf Suntiger called 'Tigger', see named him already.
Thanks to everybody for your input to this thread, it was much appreciated and it helped me make my mind up and now I am over the moon at getting this guy.

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[dave himself]

He's lovely mate and I think you made the right choice going for an SD, love the name by the way :)

[MartinD]

He's lovely mate and I think you made the right choice going for an SD, love the name by the way :)

Thanks Dave, I think I let my heart rule my head before and you lot helped me see that. Yes I decided on Tigger as I LOVE Winnie The Pooh and especially Tigger and I know my late wife would also agree.

[SWDK]

Tigger is a great looking retic.

[EL Ziggy]

Wow, awesome choice Martin! He's a super stunner! I really like the name too. :). I don't think I can resist the SD temptation much longer.

[trailblazer295]

Beautiful SD, definitely made the right choice. Unknowns with giant blood is risky. Even the term dwarf is misleading. Compared to a mainland sure but a 15ft snake is not exactly dwarfy. Best to stick with what you're confident you can handle. I believe a 62.5% SD male will probably be 7ftish give or take.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Yup I agree that if your goal was a small snake, the SD was the better choice. On the feeding schedule you mentioned earlier in the thread, the other retic could easily hit a growth spurt and attain a large size eventually, even if it took several years.

[Tsubaki]

Beautiful SD!! Loving the full back stripe and the name :D

[MartinD]

@SWDK - Thank you

@Ziggy - Thank you. Go for it mate, you know this is not a hobby but an addiction lol

@Trailblazer & BSG - Thank you both. Yes I mainly wanted a small snake because I live in a 2 bedroom ground floor flat and the 2nd bedroom is my snake room lol, so to have something 15-20ft running around would be a bit much.

@Tsubaki - Thank you, I love that stripe down the dorsal and being a suntiger and with me being a Winnie the Pooh fan it wasn't hard to choose a name lol

[SnakeyJay]

My male 50% sd 25% jamp is about 3.5ft at 1 yr 8 months... not really a great size reference for you but I'm expecting 8-10ft maybe a bit more out of him.

[MartinD]

My sd is 75% SD Tiger x 50% SD Sunfire

[GyGbeetle]

Thanks Dave, yes so far Marcus has been really friendly and helpful and at 5yrs old - thats the snake, not Marcus - I won't have to go through the 'terrible two's' tantrums lol

What terrible twos?

[Tsubaki]

Retics and burm males (and similar snakes) can go through a puberty like sexual maturing, get randomly more aggressive. Not all of them get it, not all of them get it at the same age. And for some it's a yearly reoccurring behaviour around the mating season.

[MartinD]

What terrible twos?

The terrible twos is a stage in which toddlers begin to struggle between their reliance on adults and their desire for independence. Its when you start getting the temper tantrums and whatever you ask/tell them to do they either ignore you or do the total opposite.

[dave himself]

Wilson gets a bit moody every year,we just keep an extra eye on him. This is why I sort of laugh when people say there burms are like big puppy dogs, I understand that most are calm and well behaved. But I'd love them to come to my house and see Daisy on a bad day, fun it is not :D and she's well past 2 years old

[SnakeyJay]

Wilson gets a bit moody every year,we just keep an extra eye on him. This is why I sort of laugh when people say there burms are like big puppy dogs, I understand that most are calm and well behaved. But I'd love them to come to my house and see Daisy on a bad day, fun it is not :D and she's well past 2 years old

I get what you mean, my males coming up 2 yrs so I'll be watching for any change...

The sad thing is what they're usually referring to as "puppy tame" is usually that way because it's either over weight or kept too cold to be bothered doing much else... I'm not a fan of extended time out of the viv (in the uk) due to their temps dropping below what I'm comfortable with. 10-20 mins I usually do at most.

[MartinD]

I get what you mean, my males coming up 2 yrs so I'll be watching for any change...

The sad thing is what they're usually referring to as "puppy tame" is usually that way because it's either over weight or kept too cold to be bothered doing much else... I'm not a fan of extended time out of the viv (in the uk) due to their temps dropping below what I'm comfortable with. 10-20 mins I usually do at most.

Agree SJ, my snakes come out one at a time for around 10-15 mins each. Do you ever take them out during the day (if not working), or just let them rest. Mine are usually out by 7pm

[GyGbeetle]

So, I'm wondering now if my 8 year old boa, who we've only had since May of 2016, may have been having something like this. He's wasn't overtly aggressive, but he was definitely moody, and a lot more.... active? I don't know how else to say it. And he lost a sperm plug (gross!).

All the rest are still babies, except our burm, who's a little over a year. She's had some moody weeks where she'll get really hissy. So this is just great! I've not yet been bitten, but it sounds like it's because none of the snakes have hit puberty yet. Just great!

[Andy_G]

So, I'm wondering now if my 8 year old boa, who we've only had since May of 2016, may have been having something like this. He's wasn't overtly aggressive, but he was definitely moody, and a lot more.... active? I don't know how else to say it. And he lost a sperm plug (gross!).



'tis the season. :)

[GyGbeetle]

'tis the season. :)

I'm never going to look at Fang the same way again.

[SnakeyJay]

Agree SJ, my snakes come out one at a time for around 10-15 mins each. Do you ever take them out during the day (if not working), or just let them rest. Mine are usually out by 7pm

Bit of a mix of times tbh mate, and depends on the snakes mood and what they're doing at that time... although with my brb and retic it's pretty much daytime only handling as I feed at night so they tend to be a bit more than a handful at that point.

[bigsnakegirl785]

So, I'm wondering now if my 8 year old boa, who we've only had since May of 2016, may have been having something like this. He's wasn't overtly aggressive, but he was definitely moody, and a lot more.... active? I don't know how else to say it. And he lost a sperm plug (gross!).

All the rest are still babies, except our burm, who's a little over a year. She's had some moody weeks where she'll get really hissy. So this is just great! I've not yet been bitten, but it sounds like it's because none of the snakes have hit puberty yet. Just great!

I'm not sure if my male is just an unusually horny teenager or what, but whenever the cooler weather comes around, my male boa leaves sperm plugs EVERYWHERE. He's only been doing it a year or two, but it seems like every time I go in his enclosure I have a bunch of new plugs to scrape or wipe off his tree or dig out of the bedding. Does it in his water bowl, too. I even got one on my back to remind not to handle a horny male boa during "breeding season." -.- He started up last July and stopped dropping plugs around Oct, which was unusually early, but I suppose it's because I waited to start turning the space heater on. When I started heating the room is about when he stopped.

He doesn't get antsy or moody or anything, though. Other than making a mess of his enclosure, not much changes.

[dave himself]

Retics and burm males (and similar snakes) can go through a puberty like sexual maturing, get randomly more aggressive. Not all of them get it, not all of them get it at the same age. And for some it's a yearly reoccurring behaviour around the mating season.

This is why we picked a female when we brought a retic, we didn't want to take the chance on a large snake that could become agressive, and want to start giving combat bites a few months every year. We knew it may never happen but we were never going to breed so to us it just wasn't worth the risks

[MartinD]

I received this photo that was taken this morning of my SD Retic, just got to wait for the couriers to decide when they are going to pick him up

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[SnakeyJay]

I may be mistaken as I'm really not into mainlands or morphs at all, but I've been led to believe that anything with tiger in it will get reasonably large.... Just something I've heard so don't know how reliable that is.

Stunning looking snake tho mate, I'm sure that'll be even more of beauty as it grows! ����

[MartinD]

I may be mistaken as I'm really not into mainlands or morphs at all, but I've been led to believe that anything with tiger in it will get reasonably large.... Just something I've heard so don't know how reliable that is.

Stunning looking snake tho mate, I'm sure that'll be even more of beauty as it grows! ����

The parents are, 75% SD Tiger x 50% SD Sunfire, so both sets of gene's are proven SD, so even if he got to 7 - 8ft that would be fine with me.

[dave himself]

Wow mate I bet you can't wait to get your hands on him :)

[SnakeyJay]

The parents are, 75% SD Tiger x 50% SD Sunfire, so both sets of gene's are proven SD, so even if he got to 7 - 8ft that would be fine with me.

Depends what locality of SD was used tho tbh mate... like my one is 50% "Madu" locality SD..so for me a pure madu male will get 6-9ft... add in 25% jampea and 25% mainland means I could be looking at anywhere from 9-13 ft.

Hopefully they used kalatoa or one of the smaller SD localities for yours. I wish I had waited for a pure Madu personally, but wouldn't change Floki now that I've got him!.

I have noticed how much the mainland blood has influenced his temperament compared to pure SD's tho, much calmer... :)

[MartinD]

Depends what locality of SD was used tho tbh mate... like my one is 50% "Madu" locality SD..so for me a pure madu male will get 6-9ft... add in 25% jampea and 25% mainland means I could be looking at anywhere from 9-13 ft.

Hopefully they used kalatoa or one of the smaller SD localities for yours. I wish I had waited for a pure Madu personally, but wouldn't change Floki now that I've got him!.

I have noticed how much the mainland blood has influenced his temperament compared to pure SD's tho, much calmer... :)

Will have to as about the parents localities.

Wow mate I bet you can't wait to get your hands on him :)

He's using Cold Blooded Movement so just waiting for them to announce their run dates and when they do it will feel like Christmas again lol

[SnakeyJay]

Can't wait to see some fresh pics once you get him!! Hopefully it won't be too long now :D