Tank Cleaning Help

[Cricket1234]

Hi! I recently got a beautiful milk snake and love him so much. He likes to burrow so I have him lots of aspen.... but then I realized that he doesn't come out of it a lot. I have 4 hides plus climbing branches and stuff but I'm worried about cleaning his poop. If he poops in the bedding how will I find a tiny bit of poop in his 40 gallon tank? I want my little guy to have a clean tank...

[jossh27]

I'd wait and see if he doesn't come up to surface to defecate. My hognose never chokes out of the substrate unless its to eat or take a grumpy- if you change the water everyday chances are your snakes a **** and will just go in its fresh water like my king snake lol

[Andy_G]

If you dig around for it a bit you'll find treasures.

How big and old is the milksnake and what kind? :)

[Cricket1234]

He is a Pueblan Milk Snake and he is about a foot long.

[Andy_G]

Ah. A very large cage for such a small snake and you've found one reason why. Like finding a raisin in a hay stack. :D

[Cricket1234]

Ah. A very large cage for such a small snake and you've found one reason why. Like finding a raisin in a hay stack. :D Agreed. He enjoys the extra space and I have tons of hides and stuff so he feels secure though, so I kind of like him in the 40 gal. Ty!

[TRD]

Young milksnakes get (or may get) pretty stressed though in large enclosures... Mine never showed herself in a 60x40 cm enclosure (when she was ~40cm in length), also moving under the substrate at all times. Maybe sometimes at night she popped up. Otherwise hiding forever.

For the time being I moved her into a 30x20cm with covered sides, back, and top, and she's much more happy. She stopped burrowing and using the hides and thermo regulates normally like the others. This is important because a scared milk will prefer safety over health and may fail to properly thermo regulate or hydrate. She will go back to a bigger enclosure when she reaches a good size for it, for the time being I don't want her to believe it's "not safe outside".

Milksnakes do not usually burrow btw, despite the many comments of people stating they "like it". They only do if they feel unsafe. Usually the case with small ones, they stress out a ton easily.

As for finding the poop. They like to move around the sides of the enclosure much more than through the middle. Likely you'll find most if not all poop around the edges. Since you're using aspen shavings, you can also fairly easily replace it every month or so. It's not too expensive. A little snake in that much substrate isn't likely to make too much of a mess in 1 month that it becomes unhealthy :) Just take care of the humidity in there, aspen tends to make stuff very dry, especially in winter months (depending on where you are of course, but for me when using aspen my humidity drops to 20%-ish, which is too low for me... I don't use it for that reason).

[Cricket1234]

Young milksnakes get (or may get) pretty stressed though in large enclosures... Mine never showed herself in a 60x40 cm enclosure (when she was ~40cm in length), also moving under the substrate at all times. Maybe sometimes at night she popped up. Otherwise hiding forever.

For the time being I moved her into a 30x20cm with covered sides, back, and top, and she's much more happy. She stopped burrowing and using the hides and thermo regulates normally like the others. This is important because a scared milk will prefer safety over health and may fail to properly thermo regulate or hydrate. She will go back to a bigger enclosure when she reaches a good size for it, for the time being I don't want her to believe it's "not safe outside".

Milksnakes do not usually burrow btw, despite the many comments of people stating they "like it". They only do if they feel unsafe. Usually the case with small ones, they stress out a ton easily.

As for finding the poop. They like to move around the sides of the enclosure much more than through the middle. Likely you'll find most if not all poop around the edges. Since you're using aspen shavings, you can also fairly easily replace it every month or so. It's not too expensive. A little snake in that much substrate isn't likely to make too much of a mess in 1 month that it becomes unhealthy :) Just take care of the humidity in there, aspen tends to make stuff very dry, especially in winter months (depending on where you are of course, but for me when using aspen my humidity drops to 20%-ish, which is too low for me... I don't use it for that reason). I agree that aspen lowers humidity. I have my snake on a humidifier when it gets dry. Here is her setup.

[Cricket1234]

Wait... how do you post videos? Sry.

[TRD]

Wait... how do you post videos? Sry.

[ YOUTUBE]...link here...[ /YOUTUBE]

without the spaces.

PS. What subspecies milksnake do you have anyway?

[Andy_G]

It's a pueblan, TRD. :)

[TRD]

It's a pueblan, TRD. :)

Omg... I read through the thread to see if it wasn't mentioned already and didn't read it. I'm off to buy some new eyes, or I must be in shed.

I just wanted to know in regards to humidity requirements. I think aspen might be too dry for it, but time will tell with a stuck shed. I didn't own any Pueblan though, so I can't speak of any first hand experience...

[Andy_G]

Ive kept and bred black, honduran, and andean all on aspen as well as sani chip and never had an issue with a bad shed ever...but that was in racking systems/custom cages. I would say aspen is fine even in a tank though, if a humid hide is offered.

[TRD]

if a humid hide is offered.

Exactly... with my first snake I made a mistake and didn't offer this, thinking it would be alright. 2 sheds later I found myself carefully peeling it off. Snake unhappy, me unhappy. Lesson learned.

But you say something perfectly well... a humid hide/corner should be provided, but often I read spraying/misting down the entire enclosure, which is not a good idea.

If anything, a reptile needs options. At least that's what I see from the behavior of mine.

I keep my rescue MBK in a glass terra, and he's kind of subject to some experiment while at the same time healing and being put on a more aggressive feeding schedule (picked him up from a 'breeder'... he was 18 months old and only 57 grams, his scales looked poor... had him checked by a vet, but otherwise he was healthy (thank god)). I have my lights configured in a way that it simulates sunrise, midday, and sunset. It's very interesting to see how the snake adapts and knows that the morning basking sites are different from the evening and he moves around during the day finding his perfect spots. It's also nice because the snake will move around instead of sitting in his perfect spot from light on to lights off.

He's such a nice snake, very calm disposition, and immensely curious. When I open the terra he comes out himself (well, mostly) and goes up my hands and about, likes to explore a lot over me or around me. Never 1 sign of stress or discomfort. Hopefully his scales will be back and healthy again in 1-2 sheds (he's currently in one again, starting cycle from tonight... last shed was just over 2 weeks ago - I guess he's in a hurry). He's putting on a lot of weight now too, about 4 grams/5 days.

[Cricket1234]

I have my lights configured in a way that it simulates sunrise, midday, and sunset. It's very interesting to see how the snake adapts and knows that the morning basking sites are different from the evening and he moves around during the day finding his perfect spots. It's also nice because the snake will move around instead of sitting in his perfect spot from light on to lights off. Wow! now that's awesome! How do you do that lighting setup? I would love to try it for my snake Master Slinky... (my 4 year old sister named it lol) P.S. I'm thinking of switching him to newspaper for a substrate, is that ok for him? He burrows a lot so I was wondering if he would feel insecure without his aspen. If newspaper isn't ok is there any "burrowable" (Sorry I made up a word there) substrates I could switch him too that hold humidity better? Thanks! :Wow:

[TRD]

I use of 2 of these;
Automatic dimmer time switch - Plumladen (http://plumladen.com/us/electronics-and-technology/automatic-dimmer-time-switch.html)

1 light set for the left side of terra light up at 6 am, fade to full in 1 hour and fade out start at 2 pm till 3 pm. Other on right side of terra, fade in start at 11 am to full at 12 pm, fade out start at 5 pm till off at 6pm. Both those lights shine into the terra under an angle... it creates nice shades inside during the sunrise/sunset "events".

Full spectrum light on top of terra (LED, no heat) that goes on for 9 h/day since I have some live plants in there (Portulacaria afra, does really well in arid terra) as well and they need it.

For substrate I use, well, I currently use a mix between some rough sand (rounded), larger stones, wood parts, and zoomed forest floor (Zoo Med Laboratories, Inc. (http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=39&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=5)). With the plants and the bedding I fairly easily keep humidity between 30 and 40% depending on temperature. My MBK seems to find the spots where the temperature is 28 C, he has a preference for that temp it seems, average temp is 26 C, cool is 24 C, the hot spots reach about 30-32 C which are used rarely, except after dinner :)

I don't like newspaper for bedding... your snake will panic especially when not completely covered like in a rack. Snakes only burrow when feeling insecure out in the open. Mine never burrows, he can't care less about digging. Younger snakes burrow a lot... it's a natural survival instinct. If you take that away from them, they may not feel so comfortable about it. It will get better when they get older. Try not to grab him every time he does show his nose as that will only tell him that he should stay underground. Reptiles don't like being picked up, they may eventually tolerate it.

[Cricket1234]

I use of 2 of these;
Automatic dimmer time switch - Plumladen (http://plumladen.com/us/electronics-and-technology/automatic-dimmer-time-switch.html)

1 light set for the left side of terra light up at 6 am, fade to full in 1 hour and fade out start at 2 pm till 3 pm. Other on right side of terra, fade in start at 11 am to full at 12 pm, fade out start at 5 pm till off at 6pm. Both those lights shine into the terra under an angle... it creates nice shades inside during the sunrise/sunset "events".

Full spectrum light on top of terra (LED, no heat) that goes on for 9 h/day since I have some live plants in there (Portulacaria afra, does really well in arid terra) as well and they need it.

For substrate I use, well, I currently use a mix between some rough sand (rounded), larger stones, wood parts, and zoomed forest floor (Zoo Med Laboratories, Inc. (http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryDetail.php?EntryID=39&DatabaseID=2&SearchID=5)). With the plants and the bedding I fairly easily keep humidity between 30 and 40% depending on temperature. My MBK seems to find the spots where the temperature is 28 C, he has a preference for that temp it seems, average temp is 26 C, cool is 24 C, the hot spots reach about 30-32 C which are used rarely, except after dinner :)

I don't like newspaper for bedding... your snake will panic especially when not completely covered like in a rack. Snakes only burrow when feeling insecure out in the open. Mine never burrows, he can't care less about digging. Younger snakes burrow a lot... it's a natural survival instinct. If you take that away from them, they may not feel so comfortable about it. It will get better when they get older. Try not to grab him every time he does show his nose as that will only tell him that he should stay underground. Reptiles don't like being picked up, they may eventually tolerate it.
I will have to try that with my snake! Awesome lighting arrangement! I should start saving up now to get one lol. I have decided to just do full substrate cleanings every month to keep the tank clean. To respond to your comment on handling, don't worry, I only handle him once every other day, and not when he comes out. When he is out and about I prefer to sit and watch him. I am entranced by snakes beauty, and the way they move. They are such interesting animals. However, when I do take him out, he is very good with being handled. I let him crawl around my room a little too (under close supervision) He loves to look at my fish in my fish tank. Thanks man and have a nice day:D