What should I get?

[AlbyTross]

So I bought a 6 inch N. chromatus tarantula recently, and she came in a glass 20 gall (I think) tank. I GREATLY prefer plastic/acrylic tanks for my spiders, because I'm always moving them around for feeding and stuff, and I'm a weak baby, lol.
But my mom said I can go to Repticon in January and finally get another snake! So, though I MUCH prefer bigger snakes, I want to get a small snake that could live in the 20 gall for at least long enough until I can get a bigger tank for it. My dream snake is a P. brongersmai, but I can't find anybody who sells them, at least haven't seen any for sale online and none of the expos here have had any, so I've kind of given up hope for now at least, and with that cost and the fact that my mom has already spent about 1,500$ on me these past few months for my spiders and new gaming desktop I can use for work.
My main two interests right now are hognoses or sand boas, but idk which one I like more! Hognoses are so cool, but sand boas are so cute <3 (not saying hogs aren't cute too) But I could also get a baby python or boa that would outgrow the tank, it doesn't have to be permanently in the 20 gallon. Any ideas on what I could get? I've had a ball python and help my sister out with her Mexican black kingsnake, basically anything is up for consideration, except for those very venomous snakes and red tail boas (I love them to death but I just wouldn't have room for one, probably wont have room for a snake that size for several years)
Although I'm considering getting a small snake like a hog or sand boa, I definitely prefer pythons, 4-6 feet is fine by me
So:
- Can go in a 20 gall glass cage, at least for half a year
- Probably has to be under 200$ (baby or adult) for my mom to let me get it
- I don't really care about temperament, if they're nice, they're nice, and if they're grumpy, well that just makes them more interesting and will help me gain more experience!
- No red tail boas, just too big for me to care for right now, and no hot snakes, can't risk them biting my house hold members
- Also I have experience with fast tarantulas and a few other snakes

And here's a dumb question from a dumb person: Would it be safe to keep my snake in my bedroom, which also has my rats? My sister said it would make them more aggressive, so I kept my old ball python in the dining room. The rats are females, which don't have a strong odor as the males do, and I keep their cage pretty clean.
If it's unwise, I can keep the snake in the basement, that's fine :) But I'm getting a new loft bed that comes with a computer desk and a few metal shelves under it (They're labeled as "book shelves", but we all know they're truly made for reptiles and spiders, right? Ahahah)

(I haven't been on this forum long enough to figure out if the members here prefer people using latin names or not. In Arachnoboards, you pretty much always have to use latin names or face the backlash, but I only know all of the tarantula scientific names, haven't learned all of the snakes, though I recognize a few of the common ones)

[Minkness]

Well hello again! Lovely 1st post!

A standard 20 gallon is pretty useless with most snakes to be perfectly blunt about it. You can get just about any baby snake like a corn or king, or even an irian jaya carpet. (Mine stayed in a 15 for a year before getting a serious upgrade lol). Hognoses are great and would never need a larger footprint than that tank if you got a male. A female would need at least a 20 long after 18 months. I have 4 males. 1 is in a 20 long and one active little guy. One is in a 10 gallon and is super laid back, not very active. The other 2 are feisty but not terrinly active so they are in smallish tubs.

Honestly, tubs over tanks for most things. Tanks are great for display, but so few babies are good for display. So if you get a baby snake, might as well put it in a tub. (This is just my opinion of course).

For smaller pythons though, look into spotted or childrens python. Mine is fiesty but not unhandleable, a great eater, and now that he's out of the hidey baby phase, I see him out and about kore often. He is a bit over a year old now and still fits nicely in a 10 gallon tank with room to spare.

These are just snakes I have experience with.

I was not terribly impressed with my sand boas, thus why I no longer have them.

Garter snakes might be good, and again, a male could live in the 20 you have now for the rest if it's life.

Looking forward to see other's suggestions.

=)

[AlbyTross]

I used to have a tub for my ball python, but when we moved I guess we just didn't bring it with us, lucky they're cheap! I just always worry about heat mats and heat lamps melting them, at least the heat pads that I have would definitely melt them.
I would love a carpet but my sister would hawk over it constantly (They're her fav snake) Spotted pythons look awesome!
I love garter snakes as well, used to catch them all the time at my old house, definitely would be nice to own one properly.
Idk if the expo will have spotteds or garters though, the ones I've been to in New York really only have balls, red tails, corns, and hognoses, but Repticon is definitely bigger than both of them, so we'll see :D I also prefer "thicker" snakes, that's why I love pythons so much, but a pretty garter or corn isn't out of question

[Minkness]

I hear ya. Hogies get thicker as they get older. Nice hefty colubrid for their smaller size. Spotteds are getting a bit more common lately, just keep an eye out for them since they Re small and have what some consider a 'drab' appearance so easily get lost in a table full of colorful....other things lol. Also, spotteds aren't that thick like a boa or a BP. Mine apparently thinks he is semiaboreal! Lol.

[AlbyTross]

Hahah, they would definitely get lost under all of the boas they sell at the usual expos. I saw a pure orange red tail (no clue on the actual morph) going for 20,000$. I did manage to spot some rosy boas at Rexpo two months ago. Not a snake I'm interested in, though, just something different from the other snakes sold

[dave himself]

Hahah, they would definitely get lost under all of the boas they sell at the usual expos. I saw a pure orange red tail (no clue on the actual morph) going for 20,000$. I did manage to spot some rosy boas at Rexpo two months ago. Not a snake I'm interested in, though, just something different from the other snakes sold

True red tails don't come in morphs, told ya you'd pick it up as you go along ;)

[AlbyTross]

True red tails don't come in morphs, told ya you'd pick it up as you go along ;)

Oh gosh, well, you were right ahaha, it was some kind of boa at least, I know that for sure.
Now I can't decide between spotted python and hognose :/ BTW, any info on if it's "safe" to keep a snake in the same room as my rats? Meaning, will the snake be on hunt mode constantly? Or will they be cool with it? If not I'll just keep it in the basement where our other snake is

[MartinD]

You can try and then observe the snakes behaviour, here are 2 responses from another site....

From what I've observed, every snake in my room (6 snakes) had no change in their behavior when I went in to get them out of their tubs. The two closest to my rat were my BCI and Kenyan Sand boa, but every time I took them out they were just fine and acted very calm.

With one rat, I'd doubt you'd notice any difference. When you start increasing your numbers and they really start putting off a noticeable scent, then you'll be able to get a better idea.

When I first moved my rats in the same room as my snakes so many years ago, I thought that I'd at least notice a touch more cage aggression from the snakes, but so far, so good.

[AlbyTross]

You can try and then observe the snakes behaviour, here are 2 responses from another site....
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Thank you so much! That's very helpful. I have 3 rats, but I think that wouldn't really cause too much of a disturbance

[riddick07]

I used to have snakes in the same room as rats and never noticed a difference in behavior.

If you like boas you can go for a dwarf like a Tarahumara boa. They stay small 4ft at the most as long as you get a pure one. My Tara's are over a year old and on hopper mice still unlike my other boas that are the same age and could take weaned rats at the very least.

[Humble308]

I think you'd be happy with a spotted or children's python. I've seen them at shows for $75. If you're interested in colubrids I'd highly recommend a African house snake.

They'll have cute python eyes and most stay under 4-5 feet. They're really hardy and are well known for their strong feeding response. My little worm used to hit food on the tongs much harder than my gopher snakes. I think I bought my normal for $25 at a show and you can usually find albinos under $100.

Beyond that if you like bigger snakes many folks here will vouch for carpet pythons as being a great snake to keep. Back to colubrids I've really been enjoying my gopher snakes and I keep my 2 yearlings in a 20 gal though it's about time to move them to adult cages. Best of luck, you can get several awesome bigger snakes with your budget. All the vwst

[AlbyTross]

I think you'd be happy with a spotted or children's python. I've seen them at shows for $75. If you're interested in colubrids I'd highly recommend a African house snake.

They'll have cute python eyes and most stay under 4-5 feet. They're really hardy and are well known for their strong feeding response. My little worm used to hit food on the tongs much harder than my gopher snakes. I think I bought my normal for $25 at a show and you can usually find albinos under $100.


Oh wow af. house snakes are cuties!
I've seen so many people claim that hognoses are their favorite snakes, so I feel like it would definitely be worth it to get one, but I just love the pythons so much

[Albert Clark]

I think it's important for you to get a species you really have a passion for and want to interact with. You sound rather experienced and that's a great asset. We can all make suggestions but are you truly going to be happy with someone elses recommendation? Just my thoughts. Also this where the addiction begins and flourishes... Lol

[AlbyTross]

I think it's important for you to get a species you really have a passion for and want to interact with. You sound rather experienced and that's a great asset. We can all make suggestions but are you truly going to be happy with someone elses recommendation? Just my thoughts. Also this where the addiction begins and flourishes... Lol

Very true, I went to an expo last year looking for a leopard gecko and ended up with my crested gecko who I love to death
I suppose it would be easiest if I just wait and see what's at Repticon :D (Knowing me though I'll probably fall in love with all of the baby hognoses)

[MartinD]

Thank you so much! That's very helpful. I have 3 rats, but I think that wouldn't really cause too much of a disturbance

You're very welcome my friend

[dave himself]

I can only speak from experience here, our ball python gets way more active when I'm heating his mice on top of his viv. But then again with this being the only time he smells them this could be what's triggering this behaviour off. And once the 2 burms or the retic get a whiff of a rabbit it's game on :D

[Minkness]

Yup. Maybe it os the lack of rodent smell 90% of the time that when it's feeding night...all eyes are in me lol. Everyone gets restless and stares. I have to be careful with my boa and one of my balls. They get SO eager that I use the door of their enclosure as a shield lol. I can imagine that if it was a regular scent though, they would just get used to it. Though I would worry that it may lower their feed response. Only way to know is to try!

Also, albert has a good point about getting what you want. I was never much into king snakes and got one as my 1st snake because they were so highly recommended. Well, I no longer have that 1st snake....though I do have more kings. It's hard to say if I have a 'favorite'. I love and appreciate them all really. I never thought I'd like BPs, but I have 3 now. They are far from my favorite kund of snake, but I really adore the ones I have. I thought I really loooooved boas, but now that I have 2, I really don't want 'more'. Colubrids are my preference. That's just me though.

So, if you really like pythons or boas, look only into those. There are many kinds! Just do your research. Know their temp, humidity, and dietary needs. And make sure you grill any breeder/seller offering the offball types. Like Solomon island ground boas. They don't normally take to rodents in the wild, but that is what we all choose to feed our snakes.

Be prepared for a possibly picky feeder with some. Hognoses and BPs are known for going off food, sometimes for no reason, or just because their temps are slightly off.

You certainly sound eager and knowledgeable, just be prepared as best you can for those curve balls we all seem to get when we first get into things. Be it for the first time or just again after a long time. Things constantly change after all. =)

Looking forward to whatever you choose though. We looooove pics around here!

[AlbyTross]

I suppose if the snake acts aggressive then I can always just move 'em downstairs :D
I have another dumb question: Does a snake NEED a heat lamp or heat pad? (Including both of the because some lizards need light for their skin) My sister's kingsnake used to have a heat lamp, but now she just uses a controlled heat pad on the bottom of one side. Is the "extreme" hotness necessary or is the room temperature being high okay? I have spare heat lamps, so it's no problem, but just curious because I keep my bedroom at about 76-81 F pretty much constantly, for my spiders, so wondering if a heat lamp or pad would be required. Or is it required so they can have a cool and warm side?

[Minkness]

A light isn't required. They don't need uv or 'extreme' heat like some lizards. Depending on the type of snake you get they will most likely need belly heat, so a UTH with a tstat is suggested. Some species do better with only a high ambient heat though. My ridleyi and pits have no heat of their own because the air temps are ideal and they have other tanks heat near enough to them. In fact, my baby pit refused to heat because I was keeping him too hot and I am about to move my gopher to another shelf because the heat coming into her cage from my boa's cage is a bit higher than she likes it.

Just research the individual animal you are interested in and then do your best.

I had heat on ALL of mine but it was causing issues since even low heat put some off their food (like my ridleyi and pits). So it's also a learning process even if you read all the information lol.

[sockSnek]

If you're asking if you need some kind of heat source at all, then yes. Snakes need the higher temps to digest properly and a temperature gradient so they can thermoregulate as they need.

[Minkness]

The the ambient temps the OP already posted, it really depends on the type of snake if they need extra heat beyond that. Again, my Ridleyi, gopher,and depi will refuse food if too warm. All 4 of these snakes have been wothout 'extra' heatand have been healtheir, more active, and more reliable feeders sonce the added heat was removed. All are kept at an ambient between 78-84 since my whole reptile room runs a bit hot (and why I removed my cresties and gargs and they nnow reside in my comfortable 72° bedroom).

Knowing the animal one is getting is more important than following the 'average basics'.

[sockSnek]

Ok, guess I'm wrong then. This is the first I've heard of someone not using extra heat.

[Minkness]

It's only because the ambient is high enough to aid in digestion. This usually only works with certain colubrids who naturally have a higher metabolism. Thicker snakes lie most boas and pythons require that extra heat to help digestion. But even then it still depends. High heat is still bad for Brazilian rainbows for instance. They may still require belly heat because ambients would have to be kept cool. So a UTH set at about 80-84 is good for belly heat but ambients still need to be lower than 75 (i think, someone correct me if these temps are wrong). But other boas like a hypo mutt (like mine) actually need pretty high heat. So he has a UTH at 95 wgich keeps his ambient in that high 70s low 80s that's perfect for him. But do that to a BRB and it will die. Some members here have lost a BRB or had one get super sick due to a heatwave.

That all being said though, bot all colubrids are tue same. I have UTHs on my hognoses set higher than most care sheets recomend but since raising theor heat, they have become excellent feeders vs when they were set at the 'suggested' temps. Even my kings and corn have UTHs set just a smidge higher than 'suggested' and all I get is more active, great feeders.

So just know your animal. Also. Be prepared to test the waters with any new animal. They are all still individuals and while care sheets offer a great BASE of knowledge, your individual animal may prefer warmer or cooler compared to the suggested norm. Be knowledgeable and willing to try things and make it right for that animal and all will be great! =D

[AlbyTross]

Thank you so much!! I can already tell that people on this forum are much nicer than they are on Arachnoboards, lol (Not that people there are neccasarily "mean", and it is still the best place to learn about arachnids and join discussions, but people care A LOT about their spiders, and some species are very fragile AND expensive, so people are very touchy, ahahah). I can't wait to become well known in the snake world!

[MartinD]

I often think there is no right or wrong but it's what works for you.

When I first started thinking about reptiles I researched them for about 6 months and decided to start with leopard geckos. The amount of so called 'breeder experts' said 'Don't use sand as a substrate, because this causes impaction', then you read of another 'breeder expert' say 'I've kept geckos on sand for the past 30 years and never lost one to impaction'. This causes a lot of confusion to newbies coming into the hobby.

But if it works for you then go with it and enjoy your animals.

[pet_snake_78]

I would suggest you don't buy anything for 6 months, look up all the different species available and sit tight. Searching for "the one" is half the fun.

[Andy_G]

Ok, guess I'm wrong then. This is the first I've heard of someone not using extra heat.

There's a few out there. In addition to the ones already mentioned by Mink, a lot of the central america milksnakes (ecuadoran, honduran, black, andean) do quite well without supplemental heat. :)

OP; I would follow pet_snake_78's advice. Take your time and look around and do lots of research. Buy what appeals to you once you've done so, and we're here if you have questions before or after the fact.

[AlbyTross]

Now I REALLY am thinking about a Woma. My sister (who owns a kingsnake) also says a Woma would be an awesome snake to have. I think they are a bit pricey? But I have read some great things about them and they have always looked so gorgeous to me. Idk if I'll see one at Repticon, but I definitely will be reading A LOT about them until then

[Thatjanelady]

If you have the chance, see if you can handle the types of snakes you're interested in beforehand.
Ball pythons are rocks. Colubrids, especially babies are flighty. My sandboas were pretty mellow. My hognose was a pencil sized worm on crack and as an adult was convinced he could eat my TV... Yeah..
It's also what you want to do with this animal in the future, snakes easily living into their teens, life long pet? Maybe one day some day breeding? If breeding, do you want to deal with eggs or prefer live bearing?