View Full Version : Dwarf Graniteback Retic
My new dwarf Graniteback arrived safe and sound this morning. He's beautiful and the yellow on his back is brighter in person. (Pics to follow later this evening) He's also larger than I expected. I'd estimate at least 4 feet.
The only negative is he came with mites! :unhappy: I haven't had a snake with mites or dealt with them since 2012. I've always proactively used Provent-O-Mite which has worked out great without any issues. Unfortunately, I'm all out so I'm off to find some at a pet shop.
JellyBean
10-13-16, 09:20 AM
Oh no! Bitter sweet...
But congrats on your new "baby", excited to see pics!
dave himself
10-13-16, 09:44 AM
Can't wait to see the pics Dave and at least he didn't come with mites and bites :D
Albert Clark
10-13-16, 10:42 AM
Wow, sorry to hear about the mites. What is the seller prepared to offer as compensation? What you could do is take the retic to the exotic vet and get the ivermectin injection and hold the bill for the seller. Try and get him to agree to that if you choose to. He really is responsible and shouldn't have to dictate how you go about treating the animal. Good luck man.
Tsubaki
10-13-16, 01:19 PM
I always just assume I get mites with any animal, especially those from larger breeders.. Not judging, just very curious and have to ask.. Is it really a thing to ask for compensation over there? In the Netherlands you'd just get laughed at i'm afraid.. Treating any new animals for mites is pretty normal here. Can't wait for pictures :D granite backs are very nice!
Usually no unless it's completely covered to the point of malnourishing the snake...some people do complain or ask for compensation but it's few and far between. I would also consider it to NOT be vet worthy most of the time either. It is however frowned upon. Better to assume everything that comes in has them and to treat proactively. It's what quarantine is for.
jay's reptiles
10-13-16, 01:42 PM
Can't wait to see some pictures!
Albert Clark
10-13-16, 01:56 PM
I always just assume I get mites with any animal, especially those from larger breeders.. Not judging, just very curious and have to ask.. Is it really a thing to ask for compensation over there? In the Netherlands you'd just get laughed at i'm afraid.. Treating any new animals for mites is pretty normal here. Can't wait for pictures :D granite backs are very nice!
Well, I agree that prophylactic treatment in suspicion of mites is a good practice. On the other hand I disagree about being laughed at by asking a seller/breeder what he is going to do about compensation for selling a animal infested with mites. I have done business with breeders in the Netherlands. Most recently, just pulled one of my animals out of quarantine that came from the Netherlands. If you are going to breed then you have a obligation to sell healthy animals Tsu. Not backing up what you're selling to customers is negligent. Treating animals for mites as soon as they come to you out of the box is disappointing to say the least. That's why there is a window for establishing the health of the animal once it comes to you. Just my opinion!
On a side note I know big time breeders who adamantly disagree with prophylactically treating for mites. Especially hatchlings, juveniles and sub adults.
Albert Clark
10-13-16, 02:04 PM
Sorry for the double post. That was a mistake.
riddick07
10-13-16, 02:14 PM
Sorry about the mites! Can't wait to see new pictures of this guy though.
I've used Nix for mites before and it worked great. I always have some on hand for new arrivals and when I come back from shows or pet stores I spray myself and wherever I walked to get into the house and around all the snake cages. I would probably spray around your other cages to try and make sure they don't spread to anyone else.
Sorry about the mites! Can't wait to see new pictures of this guy though.
I've used Nix for mites before and it worked great. I always have some on hand for new arrivals and when I come back from shows or pet stores I spray myself and wherever I walked to get into the house and around all the snake cages. I would probably spray around your other cages to try and make sure they don't spread to anyone else.
I completely agree with this. :) I love nix and I've found it the cheapest, easiest to use and the safest way to treat certain chemically sensitive species.
Thanks everyone! I didn't complain to the breeder. I always treat for mites as a precaution and feel like I get lucky if a new snake doesn't have them. I have been using Provent-O-Mite for years and it's worked great without any issues. Just ran out from my last new snake treatments. I have never tried Nix, but it's worth a shot too.
Other than some mites and mild nose rub, the snake is in great shape. He's a year old and definitely 5' plus, but not quite 6'. I underestimated his length earlier.
Here are a few pics which were the best I could get. He's very active and didn't want to sit still at all. It's hard to tell in the pics, but he has a wonderful iridescent shine when the light is right.
First pic was in the bathroom after a quick bathing to wash off the mites and some smelly poop. The lighting made him look a little different.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/525E71A2-0424-4D11-910E-8148BE88DF1C.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/525E71A2-0424-4D11-910E-8148BE88DF1C.jpg.html)
With flash
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/50946AED-7D88-42B8-B012-4A0796D88196.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/50946AED-7D88-42B8-B012-4A0796D88196.jpg.html)
Without flash
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/D5828CD6-5B8F-44EB-9318-751E06222896.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/D5828CD6-5B8F-44EB-9318-751E06222896.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/B94F8D3D-6C5E-45B2-BF11-9745FB73B982.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/B94F8D3D-6C5E-45B2-BF11-9745FB73B982.jpg.html)
Aaron_S
10-13-16, 04:40 PM
Well, I agree that prophylactic treatment in suspicion of mites is a good practice. On the other hand I disagree about being laughed at by asking a seller/breeder what he is going to do about compensation for selling a animal infested with mites. I have done business with breeders in the Netherlands. Most recently, just pulled one of my animals out of quarantine that came from the Netherlands. If you are going to breed then you have a obligation to sell healthy animals Tsu. Not backing up what you're selling to customers is negligent. Treating animals for mites as soon as they come to you out of the box is disappointing to say the least. That's why there is a window for establishing the health of the animal once it comes to you. Just my opinion!
On a side note I know big time breeders who adamantly disagree with prophylactically treating for mites. Especially hatchlings, juveniles and sub adults.
I treat all animals I buy (even from friends) with a nix solution before they go into quarantine. I take zero chances. My collection is worth too much to risk the precaution of anyone else.
As for asking for compensation. Never heard of it as I have never had a case of mites in my home.
Interesting topic you bring up though. It's worthy of further discussion.
If someone ask for compensation for mites how much are they owed? Reasonably I think a full refund/animal being sent back is appropriate if the buyer wants that. (shipping I believe is 50/50 here).
If buyer wants mite treatment covered then I think the cost of Nix and a proper how-to on the mixing of it would suffice. Maybe PAM if the buyer is adamant that is what they want/have to use. I would not pay for any vet visit/injection for various reasons.
I treat all animals I buy (even from friends) with a nix solution before they go into quarantine. I take zero chances. My collection is worth too much to risk the precaution of anyone else.
As for asking for compensation. Never heard of it as I have never had a case of mites in my home.
Interesting topic you bring up though. It's worthy of further discussion.
If someone ask for compensation for mites how much are they owed? Reasonably I think a full refund/animal being sent back is appropriate if the buyer wants that. (shipping I believe is 50/50 here).
If buyer wants mite treatment covered then I think the cost of Nix and a proper how-to on the mixing of it would suffice. Maybe PAM if the buyer is adamant that is what they want/have to use. I would not pay for any vet visit/injection for various reasons.
What's the protocol for a Nix treatment? I've never used it before, but maybe it's a better option than what I'm using now.
Albert Clark
10-13-16, 05:18 PM
Amazing looking retic Dave! I think the dosing of Nix is 59ml into a gallon of distilled water. Depending on what application you purchase bc there are different ones.
@ Aaron: I think the compensation should be agreed upon and whatever makes the customer satisfied. Up to and including return of the animal. I would pay for a exotic vet visit if that's what the customer wanted to do. I check my animals constantly for any illnesses or suspicious occurrences. Especially mites. Just wouldn't think of selling any animal that i am not 100% sure of. Definitely have to work on a terms of service though. It absolutely doesnt have to be a monetary component but could certainly include a partial refund.
Amazing looking retic Dave! I think the dosing of Nix is 59ml into a gallon of distilled water. Depending on what application you purchase bc there are different ones.
@ Aaron: I think the compensation should be agreed upon and whatever makes the customer satisfied. Up to and including return of the animal. I would pay for a exotic vet visit if that's what the customer wanted to do. I check my animals constantly for any illnesses or suspicious occurrences. Especially mites. Just wouldn't think of selling any animal that i am not 100% sure of. Definitely have to work on a terms of service though. It absolutely doesnt have to be a monetary component but could certainly include a partial refund.
Thanks Albert. I've been reading about it and that's the preferred solution mix 59ml/gallon water. I'm going to head out now to see if I can find some nix at the grocery store. If not, I'll stop at a pharmacy tomorrow.
Thanks Albert. I've been reading about it and that's the preferred solution mix 59ml/gallon water. I'm going to head out now to see if I can find some nix at the grocery store. If not, I'll stop at a pharmacy tomorrow.
You got it. Distilled water (which coveniently comes in a gallon already) and the 59ml cream rinse is best. Remove the water dish and spray the animal, cage (inside, outside, and a perimeter), and all contents and allow to dry once dry you can replace the water dish. Repeat a couple times a week for 4 weeks. The dry residue is equally if not more effective against mites than the wet solution so don't rinse or wipe dry. Also...be sure to keep on paper substrate for the duration of treatment.
Tsubaki
10-13-16, 09:51 PM
I treat with nix(loxazol here, same difference) and remove the waterbowl for about 48h. I give them a good soak beforehand so they are well hydrated before I start. After 48h they get a waterbowl large enough to drink out of, not to bathe in. It's relatively safe to use but I don't want them ingesting it when it's not nessecary. (Also do not use for hognoses snakes, and I've heard not for garters and rough greens either, they're more sensitive to even the mild treatments apparently ) I spray the animal top to bottom keeping their head dry, dab the head with the solution without getting it in their eyes/pits. I spray the entire enclosure, and put clean paper towels on the bottom so they don't stay wet too long. I also spray any tools and tubs before I store them, just in case. I do treat every new animal mild, I don't trust anyone in being Able to determine whether or not any of their animals has mites, them having a very mild case could end up giving me a bad one if I miss it too. Out of the only 11 snakes i have had this time(back to 10 now with the recent passing), 4 came in with mites that I noticed (all very mild cases). I also treat all my established animals with predatory mites yearly, i made a big topic about it before ill look it up. Call me crazy, but in the 17 or so years I've had snakes, I only had one outbreak somewhere at the beginning. And 0 Ill effects from treatment :)
Also what a great animal!! He looks amazing:D
dave himself
10-13-16, 11:58 PM
He's a super looking retic Dave congratulations mate
macandchz
10-14-16, 06:27 AM
what is an ivermectin injection?
Albert Clark
10-14-16, 07:48 AM
what is an ivermectin injection?
Ivermectin is a medication that in herpetological use, is administered by exotic vets to treat parasitic infestations. It's what's known as a antihelminthic medicine. Different parasites are susceptible to Ivermectin.
Aaron_S
10-14-16, 10:42 AM
Wow, sorry to hear about the mites. What is the seller prepared to offer as compensation? What you could do is take the retic to the exotic vet and get the ivermectin injection and hold the bill for the seller. Try and get him to agree to that if you choose to. He really is responsible and shouldn't have to dictate how you go about treating the animal. Good luck man.
In this statement you say that the seller is responsible (yes they are) and shouldn't dictate how you go about treating an animal. You suggest going straight to the vet and holding the bill to the seller.
....@ Aaron: I think the compensation should be agreed upon and whatever makes the customer satisfied. Up to and including return of the animal. I would pay for a exotic vet visit if that's what the customer wanted to do. I check my animals constantly for any illnesses or suspicious occurrences. Especially mites. Just wouldn't think of selling any animal that i am not 100% sure of. Definitely have to work on a terms of service though. It absolutely doesnt have to be a monetary component but could certainly include a partial refund.
Here you suggest that compensation be agreed upon. It does conflict your first statement that the seller doesn't dictate or should just pay any vet bill presented to them.
I agree with your second statement that it has to be agreed upon. However, I would refuse a vet bill given to me for reasons such as how do I know the vet didn't overcharge? Why would I pay a huge amount for a vet when nix or PAM is more reasonable? If they chose to not want that they then have the option of shipping it back for a full refund. A partial refund would consist of paying for mite treatment that is deemed reasonable.
Besides that, if the person has more than one snake then it's a slippery slope of paying for one animal at the vet into paying for the entire collection since it's still on the buyer as they infected the collection.
This is why I don't trust anyone. My TOS openly states there's a health guarantee and even with that it's still up to the discretion on a case by case basis. If I think you're crazy and lying then I can void the guarantee.
Albert Clark
10-14-16, 11:53 AM
The onus is on the seller to be fair, and selling a animal with mites is irresponsible. If the customer is willing to share a vet bill that's fine. If the customer is dissatisfied and doesn't think or feel he wants to share a vet bill then yes I will take responsibility for selling a sick animal. If that customer wants to go the Nix route or Provent a mite route is his call. There is a point where the agreement ends and the responsibility begins. IMO, it begins with the seller and not the customer. Well, in this case the customer found the mite infestation as soon as the animal was out of the box.
I'm happy to report that the mites seem to be gone and under control. I've been treating with Nix and it works wonders. Didn't notice any mites in the rest of my collection either. I've also been treating everyone to be sure they didn't spread and turn into an outbreak.
Also, he's such a nice and calm snake. I handle him frequently and he's a nice guy. Will stay wrapped around my neck and shoulders for and hour without trying to get away. He seems content to be hanging out. No signs of aggression from this chill guy at all. I'm keeping my fingers crossed he stays that way.
dave himself
11-08-16, 05:45 PM
Good to hear Dave although some pics would be nice ;)
My retic had a bad shed last night. I somehow missed him going blue. Two days ago his eyes looked a bit off so I thought it was the beginning of him going blue. Boy was I wrong! Anyway, after a 30 min soak in the bathtub and a huge pee on my feet, the shed is completely off and he looks great.
He had a small scab on his head and his nostrils were a bit dry/crusty looking since I got him. I'm thinking maybe from the mites. That's all cleared up now as well.
A few pics of course...
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/86F87FEA-FBBD-496B-BA4E-99A843705638.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/86F87FEA-FBBD-496B-BA4E-99A843705638.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/497ED192-6096-46CE-996E-FCAAECC46CC1.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/497ED192-6096-46CE-996E-FCAAECC46CC1.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/E3A1703F-8AA6-4A7A-9C56-A73940B017AD.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/E3A1703F-8AA6-4A7A-9C56-A73940B017AD.jpg.html)
dave himself
11-15-16, 01:07 PM
He's an absolute stunner Dave ;)
He's an absolute stunner Dave ;)
Thank you Dave. I know he's not the flashiest retic, but I'm quite happy with him. I believe it's time to build him a larger permanent enclosure. Keeping him in the tub is a temporary thing since he was being treated for mites.
dave himself
11-15-16, 01:52 PM
Thank you Dave. I know he's not the flashiest retic, but I'm quite happy with him. I believe it's time to build him a larger permanent enclosure. Keeping him in the tub is a temporary thing since he was being treated for mites.
No mate I wasn't blowing smoke I meant what I said ;) Wild-type and locales are some of the finest retics I've ever seen. I just always wanted a purple albino but there was one point were I was so close to getting a pure Sumatrain instead. And he'll look class in a viv it'll really show him off mate
No mate I wasn't blowing smoke I meant what I said ;) Wild-type and locales are some of the finest retics I've ever seen. I just always wanted a purple albino but there was one point were I was so close to getting a pure Sumatrain instead. And he'll look class in a viv it'll really show him off mate
I know you weren't knocking him in any way. I took your reply as genuine. That's just me rambling on and saying what's in my head.
dave himself
11-15-16, 02:48 PM
I know you weren't knocking him in any way. I took your reply as genuine. That's just me rambling on and saying what's in my head.
That's definitely a Dave thing :D Lisa always shouting at me for it lol
More pics with better lighting and flash.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/2D36E1DA-DE74-4071-A85D-09C42400467C.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/2D36E1DA-DE74-4071-A85D-09C42400467C.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/0A198E90-0DF2-4306-A64B-73080A06C79D.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/0A198E90-0DF2-4306-A64B-73080A06C79D.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/323DF45C-AC2D-4365-8A70-8B5EA9069DDD.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/323DF45C-AC2D-4365-8A70-8B5EA9069DDD.jpg.html)
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/hiker4twenty/Snakes/7040B4F2-3796-469A-94C3-D9D8B7485F28.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/hiker4twenty/media/Snakes/7040B4F2-3796-469A-94C3-D9D8B7485F28.jpg.html)
dave himself
11-16-16, 07:08 AM
Get him into some natural light Dave you don't have to even take him outside just over beside windows and you'll see the true colours of this beautiful boy ;)
He got moved up to medium rats for tonight's feeding. He took it down without any hesitation. It left a nice lump so it's definitely a good size. I imagine a growth spurt will happen in the coming weeks.
dave himself
11-29-16, 01:48 AM
When he does go into a growth spurt Dave you'll know mate these snakes seem to grow every time you lift them out to handle them :D. The first year we had Jenny we thought we were power feeding her then we checked with the breeder and a long time keeper and found out we slightly under feeding her lol
When he does go into a growth spurt Dave you'll know mate these snakes seem to grow every time you lift them out to handle them :D. The first year we had Jenny we thought we were power feeding her then we checked with the breeder and a long time keeper and found out we slightly under feeding her lol
I definitely don't want to overfeed him. I was worried the medium might be too large. I'd like to grow him steady, but slowly if that makes any sense??? He's a dwarf so I'm hoping he takes after his dwarf genes. The breeder said the father was 10' and mother was 12'.
dave himself
11-29-16, 12:35 PM
If your putting a lump in him every 7 or so days then not feeding him when he's in blue I'd say your not over feeding him mate ;). What age is he Dave?
If your putting a lump in him every 7 or so days then not feeding him when he's in blue I'd say your not over feeding him mate ;). What age is he Dave?
He's just over a year old. Actually he's 1yr & 2months old.
dave himself
11-30-16, 09:04 AM
He's still a baby then like you said mate just bring him on the way you want to slow and steady ;)
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