have you tried reptilinks?

[macandchz]

i was wondering if anyone has ever tried feeding reptilinks to their snakes? what did you think of them?

[Jeffco]

I'm seriously considering it, it would just be a bummer to get a whole case and have no one eat them. I can't find them locally.

[kill go]

What is reptilinks...

[REM955]

Google it.
Ground up rodent meat that is supposedly better for your herp. No clue if you'd get a snake to eat it.
Pulled form the site: Link Chart (http://static1.squarespace.com/static/54bd1eb4e4b013117e0f5975/t/5685cc445a56682e0b753d59/1451609164935/reptilinks_rodent_sizing_chart?format=1000w)
I know there has been some discussion before on it, but it didn't look promising.

[pet_snake_78]

Seems very expensive to me. So far as I can tell, the vast majority of snakes do great on frozen rodents.

[SWDK]

I actually had a discussion about them yesterday with a buddy of mine who owns a reptile shop. He had reptilinks advertising up in the store. He said he feeds them to his bearded dragons, tegus, blue tongue skink and Savannah monitor. They go nuts over them from what he said. He hasn't tried any snakes yet, but he plans on it.

[REM955]

Any idea if it is more nutrient dense, not just calories? I know on the site it suggested something about double the nutrition or something that you do not need to feed every week.

[MDT]

I did my research before switching, but now I use them exclusively for my carpets (except for my hatchlings that will be sold). Nutrient content superior to that of rats or mice. 2300kcal/kg for venison link compared to 1300kcal/kg equivalently weighted rat. Calcium and phosphorus markedly better as well.
More calories per feeding = don't need to feed as often = not as expensive as you think (my food costs did not go up when I switched).

[Minkness]

Hmmm...that sounds interesting. Maybe something to look at.

MDT, why inly your carpets? Why not the whole collection?

[dannybgoode]

I'm always dubious of these things. Humans have a knack of processing nature so that on paper the refined food looks better on paper but in reality is not as good for you.

You can for example extract all the goodness out of fruit but the concentrate misses the natural fibres etc so is processed in a different, less beneficial way by the body. Is the same true of reptiles and natural bone and skin for example?

I'd want to see long term trials which prove a benefit, not just the calorie content, calcium numbers etc as I don't think they tell the whole story.

I go nuts for a McDonald's-don't mean is good for me :)

[MDT]

Mink...LOL, that is my WHOLE collection :)
(I was feeding them to my retics before I parted with that portion of my collection).

Danny, these are not "processed" (like a Chicken McNugget), it is whole prey. Venision/rabbit/quail (whatever) along w organs, bones, etc. are ground into this product. Btw, you mention fiber...fiber content is higher than equivalent rodent mass.

Nick Helble (the developer/owner) has years of use of this product well before he rolled it out commercially. His carpets are some of the most amazing ones I've seen. Clutch size and quality improved after for example.

Trust me..as a physician, I am used to looking for evidence before utilizing a new drug, procedure, etc. I am absolutely NOT trying to convert anyone into a fan boi of Reptilinks. I will however, recommend that people do their research on the product BEFORE they pronounce judgment. I think if critical research is conducted, the product stands on its own.

[dannybgoode]

Thanks MDT. That's a robust enough answer for me-I will investigate further. It wasn't a case of simply dismissing the idea out of hand but it's been known before for things to be touted as the next big thing but your answer reassures me.

Now to see if there's a uk distributor or someone who makes a similar product over here.

[macandchz]

i agree with jeffco on the fact that it looks like you have to order a large amount just to try them. the company is located near cinncinnati and seem to distribute them heavily in new england. closest retailer to me is cleveland so i would have to order them. videos i've seen show the snakes gobbling them down. thanks everyone for the reply.

[MDT]

Now to see if there's a uk distributor or someone who makes a similar product over here.

I think he will begin importing to Canada soon (?). I know some UK folks on the Reptilinks FaceBook page have inquired about getting them over there.
Message Nick or Tyler Helble from there and I'm sure they would be happy to provide info as needed. They are very accommodating and the customer service is outstanding.

I will say that apparently some species are more finicky than other in converting. My retics (when I still had them switched no prob...but then again, they'd prob eat a tire). 3 of my carpets took them immediately. The other 2 were a little more picky, however, they have switched too and take them w no problems. I always keep a few frozen rats on hand just in case they decide they'd rather have something else :)


edit... and as a huge plus, their poops are smaller in volume (more of the food product utilized in digestion) and they do not smell nearly as bad as w rats or chicks. I am using the venison and rabbit links btw.

[SerpentineDream]

The micro links look like they'd be perfect for feeding tiny snakes like baby garters.

I'm not sure it would be economical to feed them to my entire collection unless I only had to feed half as often. However I may pick up some micro links to have on hand for littles and perhaps also some larger sizes for my persnickety ball pythons. Maybe they'll take those when they turn their noses up at rats.

Worst case scenario, if the snakes refuse them my greyhounds will take them off my hands. :D

[Minkness]

Hmmmm....you know, I'm not sure of the point of feeding less often. I thinkbthe snake would still FEEL hungry between feedings, wouldn't they?

[Andy_G]

I'd definitely at least try this product if it were to become available in Canada and at a reasonable price.

[EL Ziggy]

I've been meaning to try these for a while now. I'll have to order some and see how they go over with my critters. I may not completely switch from rodents but if the snakes like them I may incorporate them into their diets as a supplement.

[MDT]

Hmmmm....you know, I'm not sure of the point of feeding less often. I thinkbthe snake would still FEEL hungry between feedings, wouldn't they?

The difference in protein content allows for this. I have moved from feeding rats every 10 days to links every 2 weeks. Growth and satiety seem consistent.

Just my observation.

[sattva]

Will I ran some numbers and I got 7 meals at 75g for the links, verse 10 meal going with the small/medium rats chart size they have... So! That's Frog & Rabbit for 7 meals, verse 10 meals of small f/t rats... The rats wins on the money end but what about the nutritional end of it?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Any idea if it is more nutrient dense, not just calories? I know on the site it suggested something about double the nutrition or something that you do not need to feed every week.

They're less nutrient dense. By a lot.

Their nutrient chart for "sample mouse":

Protein 15.24%
Fat 9.59%
Calcium 0.61%

Whole mouse:

Protein 64.2% for neonates, 44.2% for juveniles, and 55.8% for adults
Fat 17% for neonates, 30.1% for juveniles, and 23.6% for adults
Calcium 1.17% for neonates, 1.47% for juveniles, and 2.98% for adults

Their nutrient chart for "sample rat":

Protein 16.83%
Fat 8.81%
Calcium 1.18%

Whole rat:

Protein 59.7% for neonates, 56.1% for juveniles, and 61.8% for adults
Fat 23.7% for neonates, 27.5% for juveniles, and 32.6% for adults
Calcium 1.85% for neonates, 2.07% for juveniles, and 2.62% for adults

Reptilinks nutrition chart. (http://www.reptilinks.com/the-links/)

Whole prey chart (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp), and the complete version (http://nagonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/WholePreyFinal02May29.pdf).

I find it hard to believe that nutrition that low actually caused any increased results in much of anything. If all they do is remove feces, skin, and fur, where is all of that nutrition going? And that's just for rats and mice. I say save it for the lizards that have a varied diet, and maybe cats/dogs/ferrets/etc. on a raw diet, but I personally would never trust my snakes on this stuff.

Also, as it is now you don't "have to" feed mice or rats weekly anyways.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Now let's look at the "net calories." Reptilinks measures by the kilogram, the whole prey chart by the gram. There are 1,000 grams to the kilogram.

So, "sample mouse" is 1,348.55 per kg, and "sample rat" is 1,337.9 per kg.

Whole mouse is 9.7 for neonates, 8.5 for juveniles, and 11.8 for adults. Now multiply those by 1,000 to get the kg number. 9,700 for neonates, 8,500 for juveniles, and 11,800 for adults.

Whole rat is 12.2 for neonates, 14.8 for juveniles, and 9.8 for adults. That's 12,200, 14,800, and 9,800 calories per kg.

(Even dividing the kg out to grams, that's 1.35 per gram for the mouse, and 1.34 per gram for the rat.)

[sirtalis]

Interesting, so its an entire rat/mouse ground up, I was thinking about the reptile sausage from the early 2000s that was only meat haha might want to try with a few of my snakes. If not i'm sure my monitors would enjoy them

[macandchz]

i called the reptilink company and found out that a 25 gm link is equal to an adult mouse. the smallest package you can get is 20 links. all shipping is $19. the links cost $20 for that size. the guy said that 50-60% of ball pythons will take to them. other snakes do better. he suggested feeding the snake his regular prey and slipping the link in right after to get them used to eating them. he recommended i find mac a girlfriend-not happening.

[SerpentineDream]

Interesting, so its an entire rat/mouse ground up, I was thinking about the reptile sausage from the early 2000s that was only meat haha might want to try with a few of my snakes. If not i'm sure my monitors would enjoy them


They don't use rats or mice.

Depending on the type you buy they use rabbits, chickens, quail, frogs or venison (or some combination thereof).

[macandchz]

hope i didn't confuse anyone when i said that a 25gm link is equal to an adult mouse. i meant size wise not that it is a 25gm mouse ground up!

[sirtalis]

They don't use rats or mice.

Depending on the type you buy they use rabbits, chickens, quail, frogs or venison (or some combination thereof).

Shoot, my bad haha I literally checked their website right after I posted that

[Alvadore]

I tried a 25gm link with my female Columbian Boa.
First attempt she did not recognize it as food, would not strike.
I emailed ReptiLinks and the owner replied asking me to call him, which I did.

He recommended first rubbing a mouses behind all over the link to give it a scent my boa would associate with food, if that failed he recommended giving her the mouse, then gently inserting the link while the mouses tail was hanging out. The first method failed, but the second worked. He said that once she developed a food association with the links, going back to natural prey and back to links would be confusing, and not advised.

Here's the problem as I see it.
My local shop that sold me the 25gm rabbit link doesn't carry 100gm links, which is the appropriate size for my boa. They told me 2 weeks ago they would order some, but still no links in stock. I've decided to attempt to switch over once they can guarantee a reliable stock of 100gm links. Otherwise I'll bide my time until I buy a small freezer so I can purchase 50 100gm rabbit links to save the shipping fee.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I tried a 25gm link with my female Columbian Boa.
First attempt she did not recognize it as food, would not strike.
I emailed ReptiLinks and the owner replied asking me to call him, which I did.

He recommended first rubbing a mouses behind all over the link to give it a scent my boa would associate with food, if that failed he recommended giving her the mouse, then gently inserting the link while the mouses tail was hanging out. The first method failed, but the second worked. He said that once she developed a food association with the links, going back to natural prey and back to links would be confusing, and not advised.

Here's the problem as I see it.
My local shop that sold me the 25gm rabbit link doesn't carry 100gm links, which is the appropriate size for my boa. They told me 2 weeks ago they would order some, but still no links in stock. I've decided to attempt to switch over once they can guarantee a reliable stock of 100gm links. Otherwise I'll bide my time until I buy a small freezer so I can purchase 50 100gm rabbit links to save the shipping fee.

Even the biggest link they carry isn't going to be big enough for your boa unless she stay really small. My 6.5' boa is eating 270-290 gram rats, and has been eating rats over 100 grams since he was 6'. If you get her started on them now, she'll just need to be switched later. Plus, the nutrient deficiencies with ReptiLinks I mentioned above. The nutrient content they claim for their sample rat and mice are way off from what a published study found rat and mice to be, and subsequently all of their links are lower in nutrients than just a regular rat or mouse.

[Alvadore]

Even the biggest link they carry isn't going to be big enough for your boa unless she stay really small. My 6.5' boa is eating 270-290 gram rats, and has been eating rats over 100 grams since he was 6'. If you get her started on them now, she'll just need to be switched later. Plus, the nutrient deficiencies with ReptiLinks I mentioned above. The nutrient content they claim for their sample rat and mice are way off from what a published study found rat and mice to be, and subsequently all of their links are lower in nutrients than just a regular rat or mouse.

Thanks for that info BigSnakeGirl. Mine just advanced to a Jumbo Rat, not certain of it's weight, but I'll weigh the next one I get. It's good to have this input from snake owners vice pet store staff. Much appreciated.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Thanks for that info BigSnakeGirl. Mine just advanced to a Jumbo Rat, not certain of it's weight, but I'll weigh the next one I get. It's good to have this input from snake owners vice pet store staff. Much appreciated.

Jumbo rats are going to be 300+ grams, but it will depend on your supplier. If your jumbos fall within the large rat scale (150-280 grams or so) they should be fine, but I don't really suggest a jumbo rat for boas because of the fat content. A regular large rat should be plenty for a boa up to 8', after that a diet of rabbits mixed with large rats is best.

And no problem. I may change my stance if the owners of Reptilinks show us HOW they got their information, but until they do I'm going to trust the study with the paper and the numbers over their chart.

For now, my opinion is the links should be limited to omnivorous lizards being provided a mixed and varied diet, and not used for snakes, as they are simply lacking from the information being presented to us at this time.

[Alvadore]

I may change my stance if the owners of Reptilinks show us HOW they got their information, but until they do I'm going to trust the study with the paper and the numbers over their chart.

I spoke with the owner Nick Helble, who was very forthcoming. His contact info follows should you want to ask him directly about anything. As for me, I'm going to stick with what nature has been providing, thanks again BSG.

Reptilinks contact info:
Nick Helble: Info@reptilinks.com

[macandchz]

well, i finally got to try reptilinks. drove to Cleveland to a great shop called scales and tails. they sold me 10 to try. mac was in his not eating mood and quickly rejected it. i will try again now that he's eating.