Looking for new snake

[Plaxito]

Ok, so I am looking for a new snake that can fit in a tank smaller than a 40 gallon breeder tank. I used to have a corn for about 5 years until I had to move out of my house and give it to a friend of mine. I am now ready to buy a new snake now that I have finally settled into the new home. I would like for the tank to have some sort or water feature. (Stream or water basin of some sort) If this is not reccomended for any sort of snake I dont mind ditching the idea.
Thanks!

[Minkness]

Just to clarify, do you have a 40 breeder or are you asking specifically for smaller? Like a 20 long? Or a 10?

[Plaxito]

Just to clarify, do you have a 40 breeder or are you asking specifically for smaller? Like a 20 long? Or a 10?

I will buy the tank that is appropriate for the size of the snake
After some reconsideration I can do a little bit larger than a 40.

[dannybgoode]

Don't know about their availability in the States but for a smaller snake the African house snake always interests me.

Care looks easy and they have good temperaments and are just something a bit different.

[eminart]

Most of the commonly available colubrids will do fine in a 40 breeder or smaller tank. Corns, rats, milks, kings, etc. Some of the larger rats may need something a little bigger. Some of the smaller pythons and boas are options too.

I think it's best to just decide which snakes you're interested in, and THEN figure out how large the enclosure should be. After all, you're wanting a snake, not an enclosure.

[Minkness]

Well said Em!

[Plaxito]

I have setup a 20 gallon enclosure to house a brazilian rainbow boa that I am buying today. I will be upgrading him/her to a 75 gallon tank in the future.
What are some things that I could use to decorate this tank?

[Albert Clark]

I have setup a 20 gallon enclosure to house a brazilian rainbow boa that I am buying today. I will be upgrading him/her to a 75 gallon tank in the future.
What are some things that I could use to decorate this tank?

Hi, and first of all tanks are for fish. If you are going to get a Brazilian rainbow boa try and make sure you do as much research on them. Because they have some special requirements to help them thrive in a enclosure and getting the husbandry correct is crucial.

[Minkness]

Fish tanks are fine with some customizing. I have several of mone in tanks and they thrive just right.

For Brazilians you want to keep them VERY humid and COOL. They are not heat lovers like balls and will dehydrate easily.

Just make sure to keep the lid covered with something like plastic or tinfoil ect. Make sure they have a moist substrate like moss and ecohearth or cypress.

Others on here have way more experience with these guys (I have none, but want one and have done all the research).

Good luck and looking forward to some pics =)

[JellyBean]

I've got my BRB in a tank, and the best revision we did was to cut a piece of plexiglass to fit the top of the tank. It fits in the grooves, and the screen top still fits over it for now, so we can easily use our cage clips.

Welcome, and good luck with your new Rainbow. We love our baby Bean!

[Plaxito]

I've got my BRB in a tank, and the best revision we did was to cut a piece of plexiglass to fit the top of the tank. It fits in the grooves, and the screen top still fits over it for now, so we can easily use our cage clips.

Welcome, and good luck with your new Rainbow. We love our baby Bean!

Wouldn't a fully sealed top suffocate the snake?
What type of enclosure would you recommend instead?
How could I cool the tank down?
How do I bring the humidity up? Fogger?
Also, what about substrate?
Anyone have an in depth article that I could read through? I have been looking online but everything is pretty vague as to how to do it.

[Albert Clark]

Hey Plax, most would go with a pvc enclosure for brazilians bc they are a special boa and need special humidity percentages to remain constant. Glass tanks are poor retainers for both heat and humidity. Some people do have success with them however. There are several members who keep them ( Brazilians) and breed them and they can be a resource for you here on the forum.

[Plaxito]

Ok, so I have setup an enclosure for the snake which is arriving on either thursday or friday depending on the ship date. I will try to post some pictures of the ten gallon enclosure. I have a heat mat setup under the tank which I set to 90 degrees. This keeps the inside of the warm side of the enclosure at 83. I have some fake silk plants as well as cork bark. Also, a water dish big enough for ghe snake to soak in and a humidity box with slightly damp sphagnum moss. I am ordering a mesh lid which I will cover 3/4ths of with an acrylic sheet. If you have any recommendations please let me know.

[dannybgoode]

Brb's need more than just a humidity hide. They need constant high humidity throughout their enclosure.

You need a substrate that retains moisture without becoming mouldy or rotten. Eco Earth, Cyprus mulch, orchid bark etc are all good at this.

I've not kept brb's but I'd question the effectiveness of a uth keeping the ambient air temperatures up high enough to support high humidity-they only really heat what is directly above then not the air as a whole however if a more experienced brb keeper corrects me on this point that's fine..

Just remember that a BRB is a specialist snake and 'making do' like you can with some other species is not as easy. It pays to buy the right equipment, which may be more expensive, than muddling through on a budget.

[Plaxito]

Brb's need more than just a humidity hide. They need constant high humidity throughout their enclosure.

You need a substrate that retains moisture without becoming mouldy or rotten. Eco Earth, Cyprus mulch, orchid bark etc are all good at this.

I've not kept brb's but I'd question the effectiveness of a uth keeping the ambient air temperatures up high enough to support high humidity-they only really heat what is directly above then not the air as a whole however if a more experienced brb keeper corrects me on this point that's fine..

Just remember that a BRB is a specialist snake and 'making do' like you can with some other species is not as easy. It pays to buy the right equipment, which may be more expensive, than muddling through on a budget.

After some testing the full enclosure is 80% and the humidity hide is 93-95%
I am having trouble getting the temperature to stay constant. What should the cold side rest at? I will order some eco earth

[dannybgoode]

Do you have a thermostat? Apologies you may have said already but I can't see if you have.

[JellyBean]

Under tank heater is best, because heat lamps dry your tank out ;)

If you use a full sheet of acrylic, just drill some small (!) holes on each side, keeping things sealed but still giving your baby some air.

Next week we are getting a Fogger. We will use it with the plexiglass top... Once set up, I will be posting lots of pics and reviews so you can follow our success :p

If your new snake is a baby, it's ok to use newspaper at first. Use a larger, shallow bowl for water. Put it on the heated side to help with humidity. (You can always have another one on the cool side). And make sure to mist your tank regularly.

Hope that helps

[dannybgoode]

@jellybean. Simply not the case re: radiant heat sources v uth's. Been done to death but it's now generally agreed that radiant is better.

Further for heavy bodied snakes it's questionable whether uth's should be used (I'm in they should not be camp) because they do not sufficiently raiser ambient air temps to satisfactorily raise the temp of a large snake's body mass. Note this last point is open to debate and I know some agree and others don't.

I use CHE's for both my boa and lizard (and so do for my carpet when he's in a proper viv) and have no issues maintaining humidity. Indeed a uth would essentially be useless for the lizard as it wouldn't get the basking spot warm enough.

[JellyBean]

Danny: Thanks, I'm completely open to learn... most of this info I got from this forum specifically for BRB's... So back to research for me :rolleyes:

Sorry if I am giving incorrect info. I want what's best for my baby too

Maybe cliff from living gems can chime in to help? (No offense to you Danny, as you said, you don't keep a rainbow)

[dannybgoode]

No offence taken at all. It's good to debate these things and heating is one area that is still very much open to different view points and of course someone like Cliff has way more experience than I.

Under tank isn't necessarily bad, just not as good if that makes sense

[Plaxito]

I will buy a heat lamp and let you guys know how that works out.

[Plaxito]

Anything else I should add to the order before I place it?

[Andy_G]

Lights will dry out an enclosure, CHE much less so, RHP and UTH the least amount. I don't think those things in particular are debatable...but everything else kind of is as Danny said. :)

[Plaxito]

Lights will dry out an enclosure, CHE much less so, RHP and UTH the least amount. I don't think those things in particular are debatable...but everything else kind of is as Danny said. :)

So you would recommend against the light and just keep the UTH instead?
Right now the substrate is noticeably warmer on the hot side (83-85 degrees), however the air temperature is the same throughout the tank (75) Also, should I fully cover the top of the tank with an acrylic sheet and drill holes into it, or should I buy a mesh lid and cover 3/4 of that with the acrylic sheet

[SnakeyJay]

So you would recommend against the light and just keep the UTH instead?
Right now the substrate is noticeably warmer on the hot side (83-85 degrees), however the air temperature is the same throughout the tank (75) Also, should I fully cover the top of the tank with an acrylic sheet and drill holes into it, or should I buy a mesh lid and cover 3/4 of that with the acrylic sheet

Heat mats work well when your snakes are in a room that's heated year round so the ambient temp is already there and the mat is just supplying a hotspot.

What I suspect is happening is that the ambient temps of your house are changing/fluctuating all your temps in the enclosure as the heat mat will not do anything except heat what's directly above them to provide a "hotspot"...
So your hot end temp will be fine but everything else will be changing as your room temp changes.

You can either use the mat and get an oil filled radiator to heat the room that they're kept in, or use a heating device in your Viv that provides ambient air temp aswell as a basking spot... (Personally I'd go with a low wattage Ceramic bulb/CHE)....

That's what I do for my female sasha.... I'll post a pic of her now to give you an idea of adult size female. :)

[SnakeyJay]

Ignore the ugly git holding her, definitely not photogenic like she is :D

[Andy_G]

As Jamie mentioned, it's entirely dependent upon whether you can maintain ambient temps with your setup. It's been a good decade (plus probably a year or two) since I have used a traditional tank so I can't really suggest much in that regard.

[Plaxito]

Wow. Beautiful snake.

My room rests between 78-82 degrees during the day and 75-79 at night. How long is she?
I am hoping that my male gets to a decent size. I heard that females typically get larger than males.

[JellyBean]

It's true, males are usually smaller than the females.

Keep doing what you are doing... Researching and being open to change as you learn. (I am taking my own advise too)

Once armed with info from all these different sources, you'll find what works best for you and your snake :D

*Jay, she is stunning!!

[Snakesitter]

Heya folks, weighing in as requested.

A few points....

One, fish tanks are indeed not the best choice for rainbows. As noted above, they hold neither heat nor humidity well. If you do use one, go with the recommended plexi cover sheet (with a *few* small holes drilled in) and consider insulating a few sides (but be careful, as this can also cause temp spikes).

Two, aim for a warm end of 82F. This allows you a few degrees of "safety" before that worrisome 85F level. For the broader room, try and keep it under 80F...72F is best though, as this gives the snake a nice thermal gradient.

Three, for heating, avoid a lamp at all costs...they do indeed kill humidity levels. I prefer underbelly, then radiant, and pretty much nothing else (rainbows are not heavy-bodied, so underbelly is fine). Pair it with a *good* thermostat for safety. Cheap ones eventually fail.

Four, for substrate, pick something that retains humidity and resists mold. Ecoearth is fine but tends to get everywhere. Other good options include orchid bark and coco husk. For new arrivals, paper towel works well...newspaper disintegrates too fast in small wet vivs.

Five, use as large and flat of a water bowl as you can to maximize surface area and therefore evaporation.

I'd recommend posting future questions like this in the rainbow area, as otherwise the specialists here may miss them. A friend of yours tipped me off this time. ;-)

Good luck, and keep us posted!

[dannybgoode]

Thanks for your input Cliff. It's always good to hear from an expert on a particular species.

Would you still suggest under tank for the situation that Jamie mentions ie when the ambient room temperatures fluctuate a lot.

Again I think there is a difference here in how the average home in the uk is built and heated than in the states that may contribute to the different opinions on this subject. I know for example the ambient temp in my attic where the animals are kept fluctuates in the winter from anywhere between 8 and 20c or so and I don't think a heat mat would cut it.

[Andy_G]

Those ambients seem fine honestly, even with that fluctuation. A UTH to provide a hot spot should really be all that's needed in this case I would imagine, but I have never kept rainbow boas of any kind so I am going off the basics here.

[Plaxito]

Ok, so everything seems stable and well.
I got the acrylic lid and drilled about 10 small holes in the lid on the cold side of the enclosure. Temperature on the cold side stays at around 75-76 and the warm side substrate stays at 82-83. Humidity in the humid box is 95% and the rest of the enclosure stays at 80-85%. The snake arrives tomorrow so hopefully everything stays this way. I am heading down to my local pet shop today to pickup some humidity spray as well as a spray bottle to spray RO/DI water throughout the day.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and answers as they have help me a ton.

[JellyBean]

Woohoo! So excited for you. Can't wait to see pictures!

[Plaxito]

Woohoo! So excited for you. Can't wait to see pictures!

So am I! He will be here in less than an hour. How long should I wait to handle or feed him? He ate last wednesday according to the pet store. Humidity in the enclosure has reached 90% and the temperature on the hot side is staying at 80-83
Cold side 73-76

[dannybgoode]

A week or two depends on how he seems to be settling in. Pop him in and leave him alone except for routine water changes, misting etc.

Brb''s can be quite shy so best to let them well and truly feel conformable with their new surroundings.

[Plaxito]

A week or two depends on how he seems to be settling in. Pop him in and leave him alone except for routine water changes, misting etc.

Brb''s can be quite shy so best to let them well and truly feel conformable with their new surroundings.

Ok....
I will try to be as patient as possible but I dont know how long that will hold up haha.
He is in his enclosure right now and seems to be doing ok.

[JellyBean]

He's there? Yay!! :blink:
It really depends on you and your snake. Danny is right, the longer the better.

I didn't have a choice with Bean, since we took a 16 hour train ride together. But I was lucky, and he didn't stress at all. If you see any signs of stress, leave him be!

As far as food, I would 't try to feed him yet either. Give him time to get acclimated. Fortunately, BRB's are awesome, healthy eaters!

[SnakeyJay]

Ok, so everything seems stable and well.
I got the acrylic lid and drilled about 10 small holes in the lid on the cold side of the enclosure. Temperature on the cold side stays at around 75-76 and the warm side substrate stays at 82-83. Humidity in the humid box is 95% and the rest of the enclosure stays at 80-85%. The snake arrives tomorrow so hopefully everything stays this way. I am heading down to my local pet shop today to pickup some humidity spray as well as a spray bottle to spray RO/DI water throughout the day.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice and answers as they have help me a ton.

Looks like you've got things stable and spot on... Good luck and don't forget to show us some photos! :)

[Plaxito]

Looks like you've got things stable and spot on... Good luck and don't forget to show us some photos! :)

I forgot to take pictures! I will be back home at around 3:00... I will take some pictures then.

[Plaxito]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/Plaxito/image_zpsov5a4fxc.jpeg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/Plaxito/media/image_zpsov5a4fxc.jpeg.html)



http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/Plaxito/image_zpsksnerfxz.jpeg (http://s41.photobucket.com/user/Plaxito/media/image_zpsksnerfxz.jpeg.html)

[JellyBean]

So cute and so tiny :D gotta love babies!!

Another thought:
Once he settles in, it's good to keep track of his growth. You can get a postal scale that weighs in grams.

Congratulations again!!

[Plaxito]

So cute and so tiny :D gotta love babies!!

Another thought:
Once he settles in, it's good to keep track of his growth. You can get a postal scale that weighs in grams.

Congratulations again!!

He is really cute!
I will be sure to weigh him tomorrow because I have already taken him out 3 times today and I wouldn't want to stress him.

[Plaxito]

Ok, I had to make some adjustments to his enclosure and before putting him back I weighed him out.
26g

[Plaxito]

As for when I start feeding him should I give him the mouse in the cage or take him out & put him in a dark box/paper bag as I used to do with my corn snake? I heard that this will keep them from being a bite risk when you stick your hand in the enclosure. I bought 1 pinkie mouse and 6 fuzzy mice to feed this guy. Should I feed him the pinkie the first week or start right off with the fuzzies? How long will it take for him to become full sized? Also, at what size should I upgrade his enclosure?
Can someone recommend me some good boa enclosures?

[dannybgoode]

Conventional wisdom says feed in the viv. It can be stressful for the snake moving after feeding and because it's still in feeding mode it actually increases the risk of a bore.

Of course you don't stock your hand in the enclosure to feed-that would be silly and is where a nice long pair of feeding tweezers/tongues come in!

[Plaxito]

Conventional wisdom says feed in the viv. It can be stressful for the snake moving after feeding and because it's still in feeding mode it actually increases the risk of a bore.

Of course you don't stock your hand in the enclosure to feed-that would be silly and is where a nice long pair of feeding tweezers/tongues come in!

I use tongues to feed
I meant that at one point they might think that everything that enters the enclosure might be food so they could get nippy.

[dannybgoode]

Read up on tap training. Essentially every time you open the enclosure with no intention of feeding you gently rub the snake with a snake hook.

When you open the viv to feed-no rub.

They soon associate the rubbing to not being fed and switch out of any potential thoughts of food.

I go further with my boa and will do the same with my carpet. As they are nocturnal I do not handle or open the viv other than to feed once their viv light goes off.

I only feed after lights out.

Further reinforces a routine.

[Andy_G]

I use tongues to feed
I meant that at one point they might think that everything that enters the enclosure might be food so they could get nippy.

Nope, not unless the ONLY interaction you have is feeding and even then it's a stretch. :)

Tap training as Danny said is useful and effective.

[Plaxito]

How long should I wait until I get him a new enclosure? Right now he is in a standard ten gallon tank. Can anyone recommend me some good brands for enclosures? Also, he is a bit on the thin side so should I still wait s week to feed him?
Thanks!

[Plaxito]

How long should I wait until I get him a new enclosure? Right now he is in a standard ten gallon tank. Can anyone recommend me some good brands for enclosures? Also, he is a bit on the thin side so should I still wait s week to feed him?
Thanks!

Bump......

[dannybgoode]

I'd still wait to feed. Snakes can go months without food so a week will not hurt. Looking at the photos be doesn't look underweight.

Snakes are meant to be lean (not skinny but nice and lean) and sometimes we as humans think they need more food than they do and inadvertently overfeed.

As for vivs I don't know what's available on the US market so can't help there I'm afraid.

[sattva]

Bump......
Where do you live? I have a local guy that seems to beat most commercial builders... Huge 8 x 2 x 2 Reptile Enclosure With Wheels! (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/5766654950.html)

[Plaxito]

Where do you live? I have a local guy that seems to beat most commercial builders... Huge 8 x 2 x 2 Reptile Enclosure With Wheels! (http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/5766654950.html)

I live in the bay area near San Fran.

[sattva]

I live in the bay area near San Fran.
I also see pretty good deals on craigslist..

[Plaxito]

I also see pretty good deals on craigslist..

Most of the nice ones are farther than id like to drive...

[Plaxito]

I have about 4L x 3W x 8H of room

[Plaxito]

I could probably custom make a melamine enclosure.
I have access to a whole workshop.

[Plaxito]

Do you think I would make my own enclosure on a $300 budget?

Also, would this be safe to use as substrate for the snake? I already have a bag that I use for my carnivorous plants.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CBITW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Plaxito]

Should I use melamine or plywood?

[Lefitte]

I'll start off by saying that I'm no expert, but I've had my brb for a year now and I stalk all brb info I can.
I'll try to remember all the unanswered questions, feel free to re-ask one of it was missed.

Should you feed pinkie or fuzzy? I would go ahead and do the pinkie for the first feed. You have it already and it's gentler on his stomach right now after stress and shipping. Many breeders start off with fuzzies, but feeding the pink will be fine.

Try not to handle so much. I started handling after a week and in the second week, I almost got bit in the face. My brb is the sweetest snake ever. The only thing he hates is being released and then 'recaptured' and being measured [they go hand in hand for me and this is very common in brbs]. You can sit there and boop his nose three times before he moves his head, that's how calm I'm talking here. But he was obviously still somewhat stressed and didn't know me and was hungry so he went for my face [faces are scary for little guys]. I know it's incredibly hard, but your snake will be happier if you don't touch it at all for a solid week. I peeked on him daily to make sure he was alive but then left him alone.

When should you move up in enclosure size? This is debatable and only you can answer it but we can help. The general rule is that an enclosure is too small if your snake takes up two sides of the tank when stretched along the perimeter. In other words, while the snake is crawling around, if it stretches along all the long side AND the entire short side, the tank is too small. For larger snakes you can do the snake length vs feet thing too. You need at least 1 square ft per foot of snake [3ft snake in a 3x1ft enclosure for example.
Cage suggestions? I absolutely have them! Firstly, you're probably going to want something between the 10g and the adult cage. I HIGHLY suggest just getting a plastic storage bin. They are cheap [you'll only have the cage for maybe a year?], customizable, secure, and GREAT for humidity. The clear ones aren't as clear as glass but you rarely see nocturnal snakes like brbs anyway.
This is mine, decorated for Halloween.
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/14232465_10210632303188866_1458205837880018570_n.j pg?oh=8982770d45e0a31230f6c88943b899c0&oe=583B3455

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14232635_10210632303948885_979161007126925154_n.jp g?oh=531d67e9d09f9c8ed3f3b91d779cb081&oe=58749840
It comes out to about a 3x1 cage and I've had him in it since he was 2 months but I absolutely littered it with hides. I have a heat pad underneath the bin attached to a thermostat. I use reptibark topped with moss and it holds the humidity stupidly well. I live in a desert where it gets into the single digits for humidity and with the house a/c and the set up, I only have to spray about once a week to keep the humidity at 99%. [I either get 99% or rapidly dropping to 75-80% or lower, no inbetweens]. The bin cost me $15-20 and I drilled a few holes in the sides. As you can see, it's very clear. It also has large locks on all four sides and is extremely secure. Rainbow boas are very strong escape artists.

Adult cage
Or you could go straight for the adult cage. I highly suggest AnimalPlastics. I've heard mostly good things about them. People rarely have truly bad things to say. Their customer service is nothing but fantastic and I have never ever heard a complaint about that. You can get a 4x2x15" cage shipped to your house for less than $300. It's made out of plastic so it's light enough for one person to manage [though bulky so I suggest help if you can get it] and very mold resistant where melamine and plywood have to be EXTREMELY carefully sealed to prevent any wood from completely destroying your cage. The AP cage should last the 20+ years, at least most of that, and is easy to customize. You can also ask for less ventilation which will help a ton with humidity and they are happy to do that for you.

Boaphiles are another popular brand. Very similar to AP cages however you don't have to put them together and seal the joints like you do with the AP cage. However, Boaphile is pricier.

Stay away from getting anymore tanks, it's not something I see a lot of people sticking with when they have brbs because it's somewhat of a hassle. Like I said, melamine and plywood [especially] can have mold issues if not sealed extremely well and completely.

If you build a melamine enclosure, you'll have to price how cheap you can get the melamine, plus proper sealant, hardware like screws and such, and the hardware and acrylic or glass that you use for the doors. It might be cheaper depending on what prices you can get. I don't know enough about that to be able to answer it. If you can find cheap stuff, you might be able to but in my experience those types of projects tend to take more money than expected. I might just be poor at planning project budgets haha.

As for cages, more room is better. They'll use the height if you give it to them. I would do a 4x2 floor space minimum which would cover a 6ft snake. The height depends on what you get or what you build. More is better. They aren't arboreal as adults but I've heard that they'll still use it.

I just wrote a book, I think I'll stop now.

[Plaxito]

I'll start off by saying that I'm no expert, but I've had my brb for a year now and I stalk all brb info I can.
I'll try to remember all the unanswered questions, feel free to re-ask one of it was missed.

Should you feed pinkie or fuzzy? I would go ahead and do the pinkie for the first feed. You have it already and it's gentler on his stomach right now after stress and shipping. Many breeders start off with fuzzies, but feeding the pink will be fine.

Try not to handle so much. I started handling after a week and in the second week, I almost got bit in the face. My brb is the sweetest snake ever. The only thing he hates is being released and then 'recaptured' and being measured [they go hand in hand for me and this is very common in brbs]. You can sit there and boop his nose three times before he moves his head, that's how calm I'm talking here. But he was obviously still somewhat stressed and didn't know me and was hungry so he went for my face [faces are scary for little guys]. I know it's incredibly hard, but your snake will be happier if you don't touch it at all for a solid week. I peeked on him daily to make sure he was alive but then left him alone.

When should you move up in enclosure size? This is debatable and only you can answer it but we can help. The general rule is that an enclosure is too small if your snake takes up two sides of the tank when stretched along the perimeter. In other words, while the snake is crawling around, if it stretches along all the long side AND the entire short side, the tank is too small. For larger snakes you can do the snake length vs feet thing too. You need at least 1 square ft per foot of snake [3ft snake in a 3x1ft enclosure for example.
Cage suggestions? I absolutely have them! Firstly, you're probably going to want something between the 10g and the adult cage. I HIGHLY suggest just getting a plastic storage bin. They are cheap [you'll only have the cage for maybe a year?], customizable, secure, and GREAT for humidity. The clear ones aren't as clear as glass but you rarely see nocturnal snakes like brbs anyway.
This is mine, decorated for Halloween.
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/14232465_10210632303188866_1458205837880018570_n.j pg?oh=8982770d45e0a31230f6c88943b899c0&oe=583B3455

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14232635_10210632303948885_979161007126925154_n.jp g?oh=531d67e9d09f9c8ed3f3b91d779cb081&oe=58749840
It comes out to about a 3x1 cage and I've had him in it since he was 2 months but I absolutely littered it with hides. I have a heat pad underneath the bin attached to a thermostat. I use reptibark topped with moss and it holds the humidity stupidly well. I live in a desert where it gets into the single digits for humidity and with the house a/c and the set up, I only have to spray about once a week to keep the humidity at 99%. [I either get 99% or rapidly dropping to 75-80% or lower, no inbetweens]. The bin cost me $15-20 and I drilled a few holes in the sides. As you can see, it's very clear. It also has large locks on all four sides and is extremely secure. Rainbow boas are very strong escape artists.

Adult cage
Or you could go straight for the adult cage. I highly suggest AnimalPlastics. I've heard mostly good things about them. People rarely have truly bad things to say. Their customer service is nothing but fantastic and I have never ever heard a complaint about that. You can get a 4x2x15" cage shipped to your house for less than $300. It's made out of plastic so it's light enough for one person to manage [though bulky so I suggest help if you can get it] and very mold resistant where melamine and plywood have to be EXTREMELY carefully sealed to prevent any wood from completely destroying your cage. The AP cage should last the 20+ years, at least most of that, and is easy to customize. You can also ask for less ventilation which will help a ton with humidity and they are happy to do that for you.

Boaphiles are another popular brand. Very similar to AP cages however you don't have to put them together and seal the joints like you do with the AP cage. However, Boaphile is pricier.

Stay away from getting anymore tanks, it's not something I see a lot of people sticking with when they have brbs because it's somewhat of a hassle. Like I said, melamine and plywood [especially] can have mold issues if not sealed extremely well and completely.

If you build a melamine enclosure, you'll have to price how cheap you can get the melamine, plus proper sealant, hardware like screws and such, and the hardware and acrylic or glass that you use for the doors. It might be cheaper depending on what prices you can get. I don't know enough about that to be able to answer it. If you can find cheap stuff, you might be able to but in my experience those types of projects tend to take more money than expected. I might just be poor at planning project budgets haha.

As for cages, more room is better. They'll use the height if you give it to them. I would do a 4x2 floor space minimum which would cover a 6ft snake. The height depends on what you get or what you build. More is better. They aren't arboreal as adults but I've heard that they'll still use it.

I just wrote a book, I think I'll stop now.

Wow! Thanks for the write up!
I looked into the animal plastics enclosures and am looking at either the T13 or the A25. I will try to rehome him to one of the larger bins for now. Should I get the solid top? Also, I love the halloween theme :D

[JellyBean]

*disclaimer, this is my personal experience! and not for everyone*

I've had my BRB (Bean) since January, and contrary to many stories, he is a complete sweetie since day one.

He has NEVER struck at me, or anyone else. I have had him on a train, at the neighbors, held by kids and we handle him quite often. I even kiss him and let him 'smell' my face.

We constantly touch his head, pet him, and let him slither around on the table. (We don't, however, handle him after eating).

We like to interact with all of our pets, and want Bean to be comfortable with us handling him when he is full grown.

I think they each have their own personality.

*I know it's a snake, and not a dog. Please don't judge me. LOL

[dannybgoode]

*disclaimer, this is my personal experience! and not for everyone*

I've had my BRB (Bean) since January, and contrary to many stories, he is a complete sweetie since day one.

He has NEVER struck at me, or anyone else. I have had him on a train, at the neighbors, held by kids and we handle him quite often. I even kiss him and let him 'smell' my face.

We constantly touch his head, pet him, and let him slither around on the table. (We don't, however, handle him after eating).

We like to interact with all of our pets, and want Bean to be comfortable with us handling him when he is full grown.

I think they each have their own personality.

*I know it's a snake, and not a dog. Please don't judge me. LOL

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but as well as snakes having different personalities they also have different ways of displaying unease and stress ranging from no display to outright defensive behaviour.

Whereas a cat or a dog usually let's you know that its unhappy a snake or other reptile cannot so you do not know necessarily whether the animal is stressed and simply putting up with the situation or whether it is indeed fine.

Not to say that you shouldn't continue to handle etc but just be mindful that no display of stress or distress does not mean that it is not being felt. Also we can misinterpret behaviour - for example lizards often close their eyes when being handle and people assume this is because they are comfortable and happy. Actually more often than not a lizard closes is eyes when it's so terrified it hopes that if it can't see you, you can't see it and hopefully will go away and not eat it. People think are isn't that sweet he's fallen asleep and the lizard is thinking please god make this stop.

One area when I will disagree with you is in touching a snake's head. Out of the 3 snakes I've owned none have let me touch their head and even Auntie Rachel becomes actively defensive if I (or particularly Finley) accidentally does. Instinctively a snake will protect its head and as mentioned above just because it does move out of the way doesn't mean it likes it. It may be stressed out beyond belief to the point it feels submission is better than defensive fighting.

Again, I am not saying this is the case and I do not for one minute think you are mistreating bean but it's a point worth thinking about. You know and can read their behaviour during handling whereas I cannot but I think overall snakes at best tolerate handling and I personally never touch a snake's head on purpose except if there's a medical/health reason for doing so.

Yes it's important that you and anyone else is comfortable in handling the snake and that the snake can be safely handled if necessary. It is not so important to make the snake comfortable with being handled beyond that if that makes sense.

/health and safety mode on/Remember also that as far as I am aware (and happy to be corrected) but all snakes are a salmonella risk so kissing them and letting them on the table is a potential infection risk. /health and safety mode off/

[Lefitte]

Plaxito, my bin has a solid white top. It's a Hefty 100qt tub with locking lid. Other brands may have different designs but if you can find one that is clear and locks on all four sides then I'd go with that one regardless of brand or lid type. They prefer it to be dark so not having light coming in from directly above is perfectly fine with them. I'm not sure what's available in your area but stores like Walmart, Lowes, and Home Depot all have storage bins like you're looking for.

JellyBean, my brb is exactly the same. He has struck me twice before but it was always in a predictable setting [he doesn't like being put down to be measured, I think he feels too exposed]. He's the one I trust the most around other people and the only one my family will really touch at all. He's also pretty clear when he's stressed because he will tense up and stop exploring for a minute. We can and do touch his head and he doesn't react at all either.

While Danny makes some good points, it is pretty impossible to know whether they are just dealing with what you're doing or actually okay with it, but I do disagree on the head touching point. It makes more sense to me to make sure your animal is familiar with you touching all areas of it because it makes it easier to handle when you need to do something in that area for a health related reason.

I also prefer it because, for example, my kingsnake is very head shy and jerks away very quick when you get too close to her face. This scares many people. I enjoy taking Xango, my brb, with me out places because his beauty and docile personality always win people over [I really only go to pet stores where people expect to see reptiles, I'm not looking to terrify someone and worsen a fear]. I always tell people to mind his head anyway because he can jerk back if they move too fast which will give them a bad reaction to snakes instead of a good one. If a snake is around strangers who may not know how to handle snakes or children, I think it's pretty essential to get them used to being touched everywhere, just in case it happens, like you said.

Of course, since my kingsnake is head shy and flighty, I do not let inexperienced people hold her. Not that anyone has offered, but still. So the number of people who have handled her since I got her remains at one haha.

[SnakeyJay]

.

/health and safety mode on/Remember also that as far as I am aware (and happy to be corrected) but all snakes are a salmonella risk so kissing them and letting them on the table is a potential infection risk. /health and safety mode off/

This is where I'll chime in......

My girlfriend is a lab technician, a salmonella/chicken lab technician to be precise.... I had her swab and test my snakes when we first started keeping out of curiosity.

The salmonella found on reptiles is a tropical form of salmonella, totally different to what we usually get. Once off the host body it dies very very quickly...

The risk to people is so low that it's negligible... You can sit and lick the snake for hours if you wish and you won't get salmonella.

People hear salmonella and just assume it's the same thing, it's also a tactic that "anti's" use to sway people away from reptiles claiming it's a risk to pregnant women etc... Totally not the case.

[Lefitte]

I think it's still something to keep in mind though.

That's really neat that you actually had the chance to test it like that be a specialist even. Do you keep mainly tropical species? Just curious if that has any connection to it.

I also heard you run just as much if not more risk of salmonella from other animals, including cats and dogs?

[JellyBean]

All good points of view (I didn't really expect the positive responses) ;)

Being a founder/president of an exotic rescue, I am involved with a lot of educational & social events, dealing with ages ranging from elementary school to seniors.
Although Bean is NOT one of my educational animals, I do tend to make sure my animals are as social as possible.

That being said, I have some that simply refuse to be the center of attention, and I respect that fully.

We do clean all surfaces with disinfectant that kills everything in its path, and after drying, is safe for our animals too. :D
(Cause let's face it, salmanilla or not, nobody wants to eat off their snake) haha

Plax, thanks for letting me share

[SnakeyJay]

I think it's still something to keep in mind though.

That's really neat that you actually had the chance to test it like that be a specialist even. Do you keep mainly tropical species? Just curious if that has any connection to it.

I also heard you run just as much if not more risk of salmonella from other animals, including cats and dogs?

That test was actually performed on a corn snake, BCI and a brb... All tests came back as a tropical strain of salmonella.

[Lefitte]

JellyBean, I would love to do work like that at some point. I used to take my birds into class and do presentations on them every year since we [accidentally] bred them. We'd bring the parents in and sometimes we'd even bring an older, but not quite fully feathered, baby in to show as well. I did it because I really liked teaching people about nature and animals. That's part of why I love taking Xango out with me. I've had many people say "I don't really like snakes but he's pretty. Can I touch him?" and I had one little girl flailing around and acting like she saw a puppy. Apparently, she also had a snake and really loves them. That one surprised me because he mom pointed him out and then the girl freaked and I didn't think it was a good sort of freak out haha. Since I really only take him in petstores with me, I've had all positive reactions from people.

SnakeyJay, that's what I figured! And you live in England so that's a whole other area apart from their natural habitats to throw in the mix and also not tropical. Really cool info!

Sorry to veer off from the OP.

[Plaxito]

Okay, so I will be buying the AP enclosure fairly soon. Since I am planning on buying another snake in the future I would like to buy two enclosures so that I don't have to pay shipping twice. What is a fairly large snake that I could keep in a T13? Please only name snakes appropriate for that size enclosure.

[dannybgoode]

What snakes rapt take your interest then see which ones fit. That's the better way to go. I could suggest such and such snake but you're the one who's going to be looking after it for (hopefully) 20+ years so it may as well be one that you really want.

[Plaxito]

What snakes rapt take your interest then see which ones fit. That's the better way to go. I could suggest such and such snake but you're the one who's going to be looking after it for (hopefully) 20+ years so it may as well be one that you really want.

I was looking at snakes such as the red tail boa and SD retic. I am open to pretty much any medium/large snake that can be housed in the T13.

[dannybgoode]

A Colombian boa imperator is a great snake. My favorite. Note this snake is also known as a common red tail boa although this is a little confusing because the true red tail boa-the boa constrictor-is a slightly different species and in my opinion is the ultimate non-venomous snake.

Note females in particular usual get somewhat larger - 10'+ - than the boa imperator and maybe too large for the t13 (apologies we don't have AP enclosures over here so don't know the dimensions).

If you're interested in an SD retic (and let's be honest who wouldn't be!) read my post in the giant forum on the genetics of SD's as some dwarfs are still very big! There's some excellent answers there that will guide you to the smaller localities.

Personally, I'd go for a really nice wild type boa imperator but then I'm biased because I love them! If the viv is big enough for a 10' plus snake then a true boa constrictor would be just lovely but don't forget at that size you're getting into the realms of needing two people around when handling.

[Plaxito]

A Colombian boa imperator is a great snake. My favorite. Note this snake is also known as a common red tail boa although this is a little confusing because the true red tail boa-the boa constrictor-is a slightly different species and in my opinion is the ultimate non-venomous snake.

Note females in particular usual get somewhat larger - 10'+ - than the boa imperator and maybe too large for the t13 (apologies we don't have AP enclosures over here so don't know the dimensions).

If you're interested in an SD retic (and let's be honest who wouldn't be!) read my post in the giant forum on the genetics of SD's as some dwarfs are still very big! There's some excellent answers there that will guide you to the smaller localities.

Personally, I'd go for a really nice wild type boa imperator but then I'm biased because I love them! If the viv is big enough for a 10' plus snake then a true boa constrictor would be just lovely but don't forget at that size you're getting into the realms of needing two people around when handling.

Thanks. Gives me something to think about
What sized viv would I need for a snake like that?
The dimensions of the T13 is 48"x30"x24" I believe.
What if I get a male Columbian or SD?

[JellyBean]

...going in a completely different direction, a western hog nose is a great, friendly snake with lots of personality. They will mimic a cobra, hiss, and play dead. But they can be very social, and don't tend be nippy.

No comparison to the larger breeds, but I wasn't sure if you've made up your mind on size yet...

Look at the cute turned up noses (these are babies)

[REM955]

Here is the link for sizes:APCages - Terrestrial (http://www.apcages.com/home/terrestrial/terrestrial.htm)
I have a T20 (6ftx2ftx2ft).
Dimensions of the T50 are 84Lx30Dx18H. Maybe better for a 10ft snake?

[Plaxito]

...going in a completely different direction, a western hog nose is a great, friendly snake with lots of personality. They will mimic a cobra, hiss, and play dead. But they can be very social, and don't tend be nippy.

No comparison to the larger breeds, but I wasn't sure if you've made up your mind on size yet...

Look at the cute turned up noses (these are babies)

They are very cute snakes and I will probably own one in the future. Right now I am looking for something a little bigger.
They sure are very cute though:D

Unless I get two 24" cages to stack on top of the 48" and get two smaller snakes...
Damn...

[SnakeyJay]

They are very cute snakes and I will probably own one in the future. Right now I am looking for something a little bigger.
They sure are very cute though:D

Unless I get two 24" cages to stack on top of the 48" and get two smaller snakes...
Damn...

In that case the second snake should be a Californian redsided garter (T.s.infernalis) :D

[JellyBean]

Jay, that is beautiful!

[SnakeyJay]

Jay, that is beautiful!

Thanks, I think so too! Fast becoming a favourite species :)

[SerpentineDream]

Okay, so I will be buying the AP enclosure fairly soon. Since I am planning on buying another snake in the future I would like to buy two enclosures so that I don't have to pay shipping twice. What is a fairly large snake that I could keep in a T13? Please only name snakes appropriate for that size enclosure.

Oh, a black milk snake! They are awesome. They can reach 7 feet and are heavy-bodied, muscular snakes but very docile. Strong feeding response though. Babies are banded tricolors but as they grow they darken until they are solid iridescent black. They live in high-altitude cloud forests so they like cool temperatures.

Article on care and breeding of black milks:

Breeding The Black Milk Snake (http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Breeding-Snakes/Black-Milk-Snake-Breeding/)

ETA: Have had good experiences with Animal Plastics. :)

[Lefitte]

Oh I would love a red sided garter. But they're illegal to own here in California. If you are looking at them, make sure you check the laws regarding owning them in your state.

And hoggies are wonderful.

[Plaxito]

That garter is BEAUTIFUL!
I think I will be doing the 48" on the bottom and two 24"s on top.
I like the Mexican Black Milk Snake but would the 24Lx24Dx12H be enough?
I will be doing lots of research about animals that I can keep in these enclosures. I am open to anything. Tarantulas, lizards, frogs, etc...
But please, for the love of god, no. crickets.

[SerpentineDream]

The black milk snake (Lampropeltis triangulum gigeae) hails from Costa Rica and Panama. I think you have it confused with the Mexican black king snake, which is a very different species.

A baby black milk would be fine with 24"x24"12" but an adult would need at least a T10. The T13 you mentioned would be great. You could divide it when the snake is very small and take the divider out as it grows.

[Plaxito]

The black milk snake (Lampropeltis triangulum gigeae) hails from Costa Rica and Panama. I think you have it confused with the Mexican black king snake, which is a very different species.

A baby black milk would be fine with 24"x24"12" but an adult would need at least a T10. The T13 you mentioned would be great. You could divide it when the snake is small and take the divider out as it grows.

I mean to say Mexican Black King Snake. Would he be okay in the T1?
What else could I do in those?

[SerpentineDream]

Mexican black king snake needs sonething bigger. I wouldn't go smaller than a T3 (36"x24"x12") for that one.

Hognose or garter would be good for the T1.

[dannybgoode]

Garter one side, African house snake the other. When I upgrade my vivs for the others I'm getting one!

There's a recent thread in the general colubrid forum about them.

This is the problem with the hobby-so many neat snakes to own! You see-I'd stick to the original plan and put a female Colombian boa imperator in the bottom one.

But it is of course entirely your decision :)

[Plaxito]

Garter one side, African house snake the other. When I upgrade my vivs for the others I'm getting one!

There's a recent thread in the general colubrid forum about them.

This is the problem with the hobby-so many neat snakes to own! You see-I'd stick to the original plan and put a female Colombian boa imperator in the bottom one.

But it is of course entirely your decision :)

The female columbian would be fine in the 48"?
In that case I will buy 2 48's and 1 24

[dannybgoode]

I would have said most should be OK-it's 30 deep right? That said just occasionally you get a girl that exceeds 7'. They are very slow growing thigh so you'd have plenty of time to buy a bigger viv at some point in the future leaving you with a nice free space to fill with something else ;).

A female Central American (my Auntie Rachel is a CA-see photo on home page :) ) would certainly be OK. Bear in mind they're the same species just a different locality and just as stunning.

[Plaxito]

I would have said most should be OK-it's 30 deep right? That said just occasionally you get a girl that exceeds 7'. They are very slow growing thigh so you'd have plenty of time to buy a bigger viv at some point in the future leaving you with a nice free space to fill with something else ;).

A female Central American (my Auntie Rachel is a CA-see photo on home page :) ) would certainly be OK. Bear in mind they're the same species just a different locality and just as stunning.

Ok, I will probably go with two 48"s and buy a columbian when im ready.:D

[JellyBean]

So many pretty snakes, so little space...
I will be keeping track to see how many times you change your mind. :bouncy:

[Plaxito]

So many pretty snakes, so little space...
I will be keeping track to see how many times you change your mind. :bouncy:

Hahaha
The second I posted that I reconsidered it in my head multiple times.
I am now once again on the edge of two 24's and a single 48"
Or two 48"s stacked on top of each other....

[dannybgoode]

2 48s and 2 24s? Problem solved :)

[Plaxito]

2 48s and 2 24s? Problem solved :)

I wish!
:blink:

[Plaxito]

Im about ready to order the enclosure.
Should I buy the flexwatt belly heater or just use a UTH?

[Plaxito]

Im about ready to order the enclosure.
Should I buy the flexwatt belly heater or just use a UTH?.

.......bump.......

[Plaxito]

Im about ready to order the enclosure.
Should I buy the flexwatt belly heater or just use a UTH?

Bump
Ordering this week when I get my paycheck.

[Tsubaki]

Whichever suits your needs better, I use a combo of underbelly heat and rhps.

[Pareeeee]

I will always recommend a Rosy Boa. I have a male (apparently they're more mellow) and he is the friendliest snake I own. They stay small (mine never grew past 27"). Slow moving as well.