want to breed milk snakes

[Mantle wedge]

I joined this forum because I'm interested in breeding Pueblan milk snakes. Nothing large-scale, just one or two females. But of course before that happens, and before I get my snakes, I just want to make sure I know how to keep them happy and healthy. I've looked at a few care sheets online, and it sounds like this is a good setup for them:

10 gal aquarium with slide top (20 gal for adults maybe?)
Aspen bedding
Hot spot ~87°F/30-31°C

How does this sound? Any suggestions?

thanks

[Jim Smith]

Mantle Wedge, Welcome aboard. There are plenty of people who breed Milksnakes here, so you should get some good info for your project. A 20 gallon would be the smallest I would go even for Pueblans. While Aspen is a good bedding material, it is basically shredded aspen wood, so it is loaded with splintery wood. I used it for a few years, but I was concerned that my snakes could ingest sharp splinters with their prey items so I switched over to SaniChips. Basically the same material, but it is in small flattened chips so WHEN they ingest some with their prey, there is very little danger of puncturing any internal organs. Keep in mind that you will need additional equipment when you start breeding snakes; including an incubation chamber, thermostats, some sort of a heated rack system when the babies do hatch to keep them separated and warm etc. All of that cost money. It certainly can be a fun project, but you need to know what you're getting into up front. Selling normal Pueblan hatchlings is not difficult, but you can only expect to get about $50-60 per hatchling. If you select one of the less common morphs, you get much more money for the same amount of work. Good luck and enjoy. Just a thought...

[Mantle wedge]

Thanks for the response Jim. Regarding cages, do you have any experience with Zilla Critter Cages? That's the only slide-top tank I've found so far. I know a lot of breeders use plastic tubs, but I'd like to be able to see the snakes, and I'm not too concerned about really efficient use of space since this would just be kind of a side hobby for me.

I've looked a lot into what kind of equipment I'll need when I start breeding--I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing with the snakes before I get to that point.

Since I'm just getting back into the snake world, going to reptile shows and things, and since I've never paid a whole lot of attention to milk snakes, I was wondering if how difficult it would be to track down a few adult snakes this time of year? I've seen several babies for sale on the internet, but no adults so far. Hopefully I could get started quickly...

[Jim Smith]

Mantle Wedge, It's good to see that you're doing your research before acquiring your animals. All too often we see people do just the opposite and end up scrambling to house the snakes properly or worse yet, housing more than one snake in an enclosure. When I purchased my enclosures, I did a fair amount of research first and ended up getting my enclosures from Constrictors Northwest Constrictors Northwest (http://www.constrictorsnw.com/prolinecages.html). Great guy to do business with and he makes excellent enclosures. One of the things that attracted me to use him was that his prices include shipping which can make a huge cost difference. You mentioned top sliding cages. I'm curious as to why you want that type of cage? The front opening cages are MUCH easier to access the cage and animals and make cleaning much easier. The front opening also allow for stacking your cages, which saves a lot of floor space. Just a thought... Also, as far as finding adult, ready to breed Hondurans, they are available. In fact, I just sold a beautiful female and shipped her out yesterday. If you don;t already have a Facebook account, you might want to consider joining. There are a number of snake groups there with some excellent breeders that usually have snakes for sale. There's a Honduran Milksnake group, a Reptiles breeders group and a Colubrids Classifieds just to name a few. Kingsnake.com as well as the Faunaclassifieds,com are two other well-known sites that also offer some good opportunities to pick up adults. I would recommend that you consider going with one of the morphs if you like the different coloration or patterns, just because the babies will command a higher price and sell faster when you start breeding. Just a few things to consider in your new adventure. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Andy_G]

Pueblan milks should not be hard to find, but people are less likely to part with breeding adults. Just keep your eyes peeled. Another thing that I want to stress is that this subspecies in particular is very nervous and may do better in a tub, but you can certainly use a smaller tank with the sides and back covered up. Adults may thrive a bit more in the 10 gallon over the 20. Of course, make sure you aren't co-habbing these guys because they do like to munch on each other. Front opening is definitely the way to go.

Hondurans are another story...bigger, calmer, prettier (IMO), and they like a bit cooler temps. Have you considered them as well?

[SerpentineDream]

Another option is the Mexican milk snake. They are typically calmer and more laid back than Pueblans. The difference between my nervous, jumpy Apricot Pueblan x Nelson's intergrade and my chilled out Mexican milk is noticeable the second you attempt to pick them up, though they are both beautiful animals.

And if you want to breed the unusual, black milk snakes are fascinating. They start out as banded tricolor hatchlings but as they mature they turn solid glossy black. They hail from cloud forests in the mountains of Costa Rica and Panama and as such prefer cool temperatures. They're super mellow, except at feeding time when they can be quite enthusiastic. They are large, powerful snakes as adults though, and I wouldn't keep those in smaller than a 48" L x 24" W x 15" or 18" H such as a T10 (Animal Plastics) enclosure. It can be hard to locate breeding stock. It took me 2 years to get my crew. But there is certainly a demand for them and people will pay $200 - $250 for a hatchling or juvenile.

[riddick07]

Another option is the Mexican milk snake. They are typically calmer and more laid back than Pueblans. The difference between my nervous, jumpy Apricot Pueblan x Nelson's intergrade and my chilled out Mexican milk is noticeable the second you attempt to pick them up, though they are both beautiful animals.

And if you want to breed the unusual, black milk snakes are fascinating. They start out as banded tricolor hatchlings but as they mature they turn solid glossy black. They hail from cloud forests in the mountains of Costa Rica and Panama and as such prefer cool temperatures. They're super mellow, except at feeding time when they can be quite enthusiastic. They are large, powerful snakes as adults though, and I wouldn't keep those in smaller than a 48" L x 24" W x 15" or 18" H such as a T10 (Animal Plastics) enclosure. It can be hard to locate breeding stock. It took me 2 years to get my crew. But there is certainly a demand for them and people will pay $200 - $250 for a hatchling or juvenile.

I paid 185 shipped for my black milk girl I don't know if she was just cheap or what but she's an awesome snake! I've debated picking up a male for her so if your breeding them let me know:)

I'm not a huge milk snake fan but I'd pay a little more for a aberrant hypo tangerine or just a hypo tangerine since I think they are beautiful animals. Just a thought not sure what you were planning on breeding exactly!

[SerpentineDream]

I paid 185 shipped for my black milk girl I don't know if she was just cheap or what but she's an awesome snake! I've debated picking up a male for her so if your breeding them let me know:)

I'm not a huge milk snake fan but I'd pay a little more for a aberrant hypo tangerine or just a hypo tangerine since I think they are beautiful animals. Just a thought not sure what you were planning on breeding exactly!

You got a bargain. I paid $250 apiece before shipping for my juvenile (Costa Rican, Central Florida Zoo Stock) and also for my yearlings (Costa Rican, San Antonio Zoo Stock). I did get a male hatchling for $180 before shipping, but his provenance is unknown.

Black milks are a little slow to mature, so I'm about 3 years away from producing my first clutch. Females should be at least 4 years old. I just couldn't get my hands on breeding adults.

Hondurans are neat critters too. I love the eye-popping fluorescent orange morphs. They also get big. If the OP wants something smaller, Mexicans or Pueblans both stay fairly small. Nelson's milks and Sinaloans are manageable as well.

[Mantle wedge]

Thanks for all your responses. I was leaning towards the Pueblans for a couple of reasons: if I'm breeding, I'd rather stick with something a bit smaller, though I guess space isn't really an issue for me (I don't really want a bunch of big, flighty, unmanageable snakes); and I just like the way they look.

But I'll look into the others as well. A lot of people seem to really dig the Hondurans, maybe you folks are on to something...