Garter snake, weird behavior or R.I.?

[Zemp]

Recently got a garter and when I left for work today she was stick her head a little in the air and when I got home she was still doing it, whether she stayed like that the whole time or not I don't know but I'm a little concerned as it's my first snake please help me get to the bottom of this, she was also breathing really hard when I had her in my lap

[Andy_G]

Are any noises being heard (histling, gurgling, etc) with the laboured breathing? Does the snake have to open it's mouth to breathe? Does it appear to be gasping? Are there bubbles present?

[Zemp]

I personally have not heard or seen that happening, my girlfriend who was with the snake all day says she did not hear or see anything, the snake just ate 3 worms not to long ago and pooped a not to long ago also. I would upload the video of her breathing but it won't let me, basically she is expanding and contrasting a lot in a short time, I'm thinking maybe it's stress or she is nervous so she breathes harder

[Zemp]

I tried to open her lower lip but it wouldn't budge and I didn't wanna make her uncomfortable, but like I said we haven't seen anything come out of her mouth or nose.

[bigsnakegirl785]

A mod should be able to come by and delete them, if you can still edit them you can also just delete the text and put "repeat post" or something.

If the snake isn't having any mucus and nothing else is out of the ordinary, sounds like the rapid breathing could very well be a nervous response. Garters are high strung and often nervous animals, so it would make sense. It is also fairly normal for snakes to just look out like that, I think sometimes they just fall asleep, but I also don't know how long your shift was. They don't normally sit for 8-9 hours like that, but 4-5 or less wouldn't be suspicious imo, but either length doesn't necessarily show a problem if nothing else is present.

[Zemp]

Yeah when I left she was on the opposite side of the tank and it was a little higher so she definetly moved about and repositioned like that but okay thank you I just had a little panic attack because I care about her so much already as I do any pet I've ever had. Thank you :)

[Albert Clark]

Hello, welcome.to the forum. What type of enclosure is the snake in and what are you heating it with. The photo is pretty dark and we can't really get a good view of your setup. Garter snakes have a very high metabolism thus high respiratory rates and heart rates. They digest foods very quickly as well. But we need to know more about how you are keeping the ambient temperature and warm spot. The cool side temperature and humidity percentage. I see its a glass enclosure.

[Zemp]

It's actually a little plastic tank I found in my house that I cleaned out, I'm currently using a little heating pad that heats half of plastic tank and it's set on med because she doesn't like it any hotter I use to have it on more the closer to hot than medium, I haven't got anything to cool yet so it's room temp and my house is set for 70-72 depending on how I feel I currently don't know what to get for the colder side I cant really find anything useful on the internet, I feed her earthworms every 3 days 3-4 at a time and I usually see they're gone after a full day's worth of time has passed, haven't seen her eat them but they can't escape so it's pretty obvious she got a hold of them. Im currently working on getting her a 20-25gallon tank because females grow bigger and when she gets a little bigger I want to switch her to a micee diet since it's overall better cheaper and more convenient, I'm open to tips on what to buy her though as I only really have the water dish which will be bi enough for her at the moment depending on her growth rate and a heat source, sorry about the darkness it's because right when I got home I took a video so I could see what she was doing when no one was around and she didn't move until I got really close so maybe she was sleeping? I have a home made hide for her until I get her the bigger tank and I have paper towes as the substrate, a twig with multiple arms so she can climb and what not and some leaves and grass for her to move under and through

[Albert Clark]

Well, if you don't have a way to regulate the heat coming off the heat pad I would just unplug it. Heat pads, mats , heat tape all need to be regulated by a thermostat so as not to cause burn injuries to the snake. Also the worm diet may be insufficient for all the vitamins and minerals that a snake needs to function and thrive without neurological symptoms from a insufficient diet. The whole rodent or whole fish is what a snake needs to remain healthy. That may be part of the presentation of the garter. Was she captive born and bred or is she wild caught? She needs to be getting whole mice and or whole fish on the next feeding.

[Zemp]

She was captive born but her mom was not I got her from a friend who caught one and tamed it and eventually had babies, and yeah I know worms aren't the best but idk what to feed her right now since she is so small she is a little bigger than my hand, and I just didn't want her to get to cold since the house is ac/ed so I though leaving it on medium would help a bit until I get the rest of the stuff

[Albert Clark]

Safe whole fish like frozen thawed silversides, platys and or guppies. Preferably f/t whole fish.

[Zemp]

I want to convert her to pinky mice ASAP but idk when the time is right, and how long would I leave the mouse in before taking it out?

[Zemp]

Ill look at the guppies tonight, how should I present it to her

[Zemp]

And how long do you think I have before she starts showing malnutrition and starts getting sick? I should have the stuff in a week or 2 at the most

[Albert Clark]

Well, try to get a heat bulb or ceramic heat emitter and then you can plug that into a inexpensive rheostat or thermostat. The baby snake can eat the worms as long as you sprinkle a multivitamin and mineral supplement onto them prior to feeding but fish and rodents would be better. The garter probably has a thiamine deficiency which can be treated by offering a powdered vitamin supplement.

[Albert Clark]

Why don't you get a pack of frozen pinkies in the meantime and offer those cut into the appropriate sizes for her on the next scheduled feeding. Petland, PetCo and Petsmart all carry them. They will have to be thawed and soft prior to offering. You can lay any food offering into a shallow dish.

[bigsnakegirl785]

3-4 worms seems like a lot, I highly doubt she's eating all of that. My adult male eastern garter can eat a single whole worm, but can't get a second one down. He's only 35 (or 37) grams last I weighed him, though. My bigger 50 gram one could probably get 2-2.5 down, but he eats whole rat pinks and as a baby refused worms and fish filet, so I'm sticking him to a diet I know he'll eat.

Worms can be fine as a diet, but only if the worms are paired with supplements. A varied diet is always best, but whole fish and whole rodents represent a complete diet and should be fine on its own, as Albert said.

[Zemp]

Okay thank you wveryone :) would Petsmart etc carry the vitamins I would need also?

[Zemp]

And they're smaller worms not big long ones

[Zemp]

Could someone link the powder vitamin Albert is talking about I don't want to get the wrong kind.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm not really sure what sort of powder to get, as I feed whole rodents and don't need to bother with it, but most things I've read say to just use a calcium powder.

This page (http://www.thamnophis.com/index.php?page=caresheet) discusses the powder in the "Supplementing and Feeding Techniques" section, but doesn't list a specific brand.

[Zemp]

Okay I've been looking and some don't even say all the stuff actually in it so it's hard to see if it actually has vitamin b1 or not.

[Zemp]

https://www.chewy.com/flukers-calcium-without-vitamin-d3/dp/126185?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Fluker%27s&utm_term=&gclid=CNn255vI784CFQYyaQodTBoD5Q I'm thinking this would work?

[Albert Clark]

https://www.chewy.com/flukers-calcium-without-vitamin-d3/dp/126185?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=hg&utm_content=Fluker%27s&utm_term=&gclid=CNn255vI784CFQYyaQodTBoD5Q I'm thinking this would work?

Nah, you don't need this one. There is a multivitamin/mineral supplement made by zoomed called "reptivite". There are other brand names but the main thing you want is vitamin b1 and d3. You only need a small 1/2 pinch sprinkled onto the food too. I would only give the supplements once every fourth feeding and only if you are feeding worms. These worms, are they worms from your backyard? Try to start the garter on cut up pinky mice mixed with the worm and supplement next feeding.

[Zemp]

Yes they are although I have a carry out close by (in the middle of the country) that sells night crawlers but they seemed a lot wider than she was so I just stuck with earthworms, I did make sure they weren't red wigglers, but I'll look into the repitive vitamin here soon.

[Zemp]

When I mix them i would cut the worms too yeah?

[Albert Clark]

When I mix them i would cut the worms too yeah?

Yes, good job. Just cut both up really small in a shallow dish and dust it with the reptivite. Very little reptivite is needed now that you are incorporating pinky mice into the diet.

[Zemp]

Okay thank you for all the help!! I'm glad she in fact didn't have a ri and is now on the right track :)

[Albert Clark]

Great! Probably was a nutritional deficiency. I have seen it before and it causes posturing and stiffening of the body in low to moderate deficiencies but can be more severe. Of course the ones more susceptible would be the very young and the very old. Nice job and good luck! Keep us updated.