Jungle Carpet - Help!

[Fbaccnum1]

Hey people. I have recently (4 months ago) been given a jungle carpet python. He was very underweight and malnourished. Since i have fattened him up and he's had no problems. Eats regularly is quite active seems like a happy snake. Today while i was cleaning out his enclosure i noticed some redish rash like patches on his under belly. Being new to reptiles i assumed it has to be scale rot but looking at pictures on the net im unsure of what it acctualy is. Scale rot seems to look alot different. Heres a picture of him and one of his belly. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advanced.

[Snake_eyes_88]

That could very well be a burn.... Are you using a heatmat by any chance?

[Fbaccnum1]

i am. its under the glass though and is set at 25 celsius around 75 Fahrenheit i believe? he does spend alot of time there though.

[EL Ziggy]

It looks like a slight burn to me as well. How are you measuring the temperature on your hot spot? Is your heat mat regulated by a thermostat?

[Minkness]

Definitely a burn. Check the temps on the mat, not just the dial. You may see a few bad sheds because of the burn. =(

[Snake_eyes_88]

Tbh any substantial size snake shouldn't be on a heatmat anyway... Thermal blocking occurs way too easily and will cause this kind of burn.

[Minkness]

What do you mean by that? How else do you heat a snake? Also, this carpet doesn't look very 'substantial' to me. Still looks pretty small.

[chairman]

The picture of the cage shows a ceramic heat emitter right out in the open. The snake definitely climbs on it and probably burned itself doing so. CHEs need to be outside the enclosure or surrounded by specially designed cages.

[EL Ziggy]

Tbh any substantial size snake shouldn't be on a heatmat anyway... Thermal blocking occurs way too easily and will cause this kind of burn.

I'm somewhat familiar with the concept of thermal blocking but I haven't seen any evidence of this being an issue with keeping snakes. I have a few medium to large sized snakes and they've all had thermostat regulated uths for years now and I haven't had any burns on any of my critters.

[Snake_eyes_88]

What do you mean by that? How else do you heat a snake? Also, this carpet doesn't look very 'substantial' to me. Still looks pretty small.

What I mean is I personally don't think any large snake should be kept on a heatmat... What else could I mean? If a large snake can possibly cause thermal blocking then I switch to CHE.

I didn't spot the ceramic in the photo so now I know he's already got that sorted, it could possibly be from the carpet coiling around the light cage instead.

I had no size referance that I spotted so I was speaking in general terms. It wasn't a dig at the OP..... I assume you've read my reply and have taken it the wrong way. 👍

[Snake_eyes_88]

I'm somewhat familiar with the concept of thermal blocking but I haven't seen any evidence of this being an issue with keeping snakes. I have a few medium to large sized snakes and they've all had thermostat regulated uths for years now and I haven't had any burns on any of my critters.

Fair enough, I've always erred on the side of caution where it's concerned... I havnt seen it happen myself either but because I'm aware there's a slight chance I always switch them over to a ceramic before I end up spending all day worrying while I'm out at work.. Lmao I'd hate to be the one that's just that unlucky. �� Its something that I've never had happen but worry about just because of the amount of times people post up a pic online of burnt snakes etc... If there's a chance I'd rather not take the risk that's all, I'm just that unlucky lol.

It wasn't a dig at mats or their use, I use them myself ��

[Minkness]

What I mean is I personally don't think any large snake should be kept on a heatmat... What else could I mean? If a large snake can possibly cause thermal blocking then I switch to CHE.

I didn't spot the ceramic in the photo so now I know he's already got that sorted, it could possibly be from the carpet coiling around the light cage instead.

I had no size referance that I spotted so I was speaking in general terms. It wasn't a dig at the OP..... I assume you've read my reply and have taken it the wrong way. 👍

Never safe to really assume what someone means. My questions were not asked out of aggitation, but genuine curiosity as I am, at this time, unaware of what thermal blocking even is, or how else to heat a snake that (from what I have read) requires belly heat to aid in digestion.

Burns can happen with any unregulated heat or light source, be they mats, RHPs, CHEs ect. I met a man with a rescued burm with SEVERE scars from a light that had fallen on it. Crap happens, even with the best intentions sadly.

So...what IS thermal blocking?

[Snake_eyes_88]

Thermal blocking is where the mass of a snake (in this instance although it can be anything blocking it that doesn't conduct well) coiled up blocks the heat from escaping... So it builds up to dangerous levels...

Obv everything should be on a stat too but this happening can cause the heat to be trapped and so not reach the stat probe if it's not fixed directly to the mats surface.....

As for how to provide belly heat without a mat.. Have a heat emitting source (CHE etc) directly over a basking area or stone etc. This heats up then when the snake lays there it gets belly heat and heat from above. Same as what I assume they must do in nature... Don't get me wrong I'm sure there's many other ways, I'm just saying how I'd do that.

[dannybgoode]

We've discussed this before I think. Put a book on a heat mat for 30 mins but don't cover the stat probe.

Then feel the heat of the mat when the probe is and then under the book (or use a temp gun). Thermal blocking causes very localised heat build up such that the stat probe may remain well within range and not shut off the power.

I'm with SE on this and wouldn't use heat mat for any heavy bodied snake a) because of the potential danger and also because they heat more by conduction than radiation so don't not warm the air anywhere that is not within very clear proximity of the mat.

A radiant heat source acts much more like the sun warming both the air and the 'ground' which I believe is much more suitable for larger snakes in particular.

That said I know plenty of people who use mats and this is very much a personal preference but with some rationale behind it.

Edit: it also seems to be a regional thing. UK keepers seem to use radiant heat sources more than you guys over the pond. Don't know why and could just be my perception.

[Snake_eyes_88]

Ambient temp of where people live will play a role on what heat source is used I'd assume... ��

[dannybgoode]

Ambient temp of where people live will play a role on what heat source is used I'd assume... ��

Hadn't thunk of that...

[Captain837]

Ambient temp of where people live will play a role on what heat source is used I'd assume... ��

Or what type of material makes the best most insulated enclosure for their application.

[SnakeyJay]

Hadn't thunk of that...

I've managed to get back into my original account, I'm Snake_eyes_88!...

Yeah, over here id guess it's a lot cooler in general.. Luckily my reptile room stays at around 24c until the middle of winter, when the temperature drops dramatically. I'd worry about RI without using ceramics tbh.

[Andy_G]

The beginning of scale rot can look similar to that, but that's a burn.

If thermal blocking were truly an issue, tens of thousands of gravid pythons and boa constrictors would be annually burned while being kept in the hands of hundreds (if not thousands) of reputable, seasoned breeders in North America alone... It's one thing to have an opinion on it, but to state "thermal blocking happens too easily and will cause this kind of burn" without much explanation or knowing the situation is a bit misleading. Saying that, the following posts DID explain it quite well and made up for that...but don't assume people will know where you're coming from without explaining it in regards to written words on a forum. :)

Radiant heat will always be king, but for those who have stackable cages or rack systems with proper ambients already achieved, it's just unnecessary wattage in my opinion.

To the OP: Please ensure that you are reading the temps properly and that your heat supply is being regulated by at least a rheostat, if not a thermostat of some kind. Lots of info on here, and if anything is unclear we are here to help.

[SnakeyJay]

The beginning of scale rot can look similar to that, but that's a burn.

If thermal blocking were truly an issue, tens of thousands of gravid pythons and boa constrictors would be annually burned while being kept in the hands of hundreds (if not thousands) of reputable, seasoned breeders in North America alone... It's one thing to have an opinion on it, but to state "thermal blocking happens too easily and will cause this kind of burn" without much explanation or knowing the situation is a bit misleading. Saying that, the following posts DID explain it quite well and made up for that...but don't assume people will know where you're coming from without explaining it in regards to written words on a forum. :)

Radiant heat will always be king, but for those who have stackable cages or rack systems with proper ambients already achieved, it's just unnecessary wattage in my opinion.

To the OP: Please ensure that you are reading the temps properly and that your heat supply is being regulated by at least a rheostat, if not a thermostat of some kind. Lots of info on here, and if anything is unclear we are here to help.

It's easy for things to be taken the wrong way and I apologise for that... There was no offence or misleading intended upon my part.. (I'm Snake_eyes_88) :)

[Andy_G]

It's easy for things to be taken the wrong way and I apologise for that... There was no offence or misleading intended upon my part.. (I'm Snake_eyes_88) :)

It's all good. You and danny explained things quite well thereafter. :)

[dannybgoode]

From memory on the past discussion thermal blocking is a much greater risk of the heat mat is placed in the viv where the snake can have direct contact with it than under the viv or under say a tile or the like.

[chairman]

Keepers of large tortoises regularly use heat mats. I can just about promise that you're not going to run across many snakes that put as much thermal mass in one spot as my 40lb sulcata. And tortoises can certainly suffer burns, their keratin layer doesn't provide much thermal protection.

The biggest driver in thermal mass issues is the R value (insulation value) of the block. A piece of paper doesn't trap a lot of heat, a hunk of foil-coated insulation will. Reptiles aren't great insulators, their bodies do a decent job leaking heat. Hence why thermal blocking issues rarely come up, snakes lose heat fast enough not to cause issues on properly regulated heat sources.

Which probably brings us back to the OP's issue, which is either an improperly regulated heat source or an exposed heat source.

[Fbaccnum1]

The picture of the cage shows a ceramic heat emitter right out in the open. The snake definitely climbs on it and probably burned itself doing so. CHEs need to be outside the enclosure or surrounded by specially designed cages.
the heat lamp is outside the cage about 2 inches above the screen mesh stuff on top

[Fbaccnum1]

Ive checked the heatmat with an Infrared thermometer turns out the either the mat or thermostat must be on its way out, it is running slightly hot and changing temps frequently...turn it off for now and replace both asap....cheers for all the help people. :)

[SnakeyJay]

Ive checked the heatmat with an Infrared thermometer turns out the either the mat or thermostat must be on its way out, it is running slightly hot and changing temps frequently...turn it off for now and replace both asap....cheers for all the help people. :)

Good that you've caught the problem, hopefully you can fix it easily...... I said heat mat as my first thought in this convo due to it looking like an evenly distributed all over burn and solely on the belly scales... Goodluck, hope he improves quickly for you :)

[bigsnakegirl785]

My main problems with belly heat is it doesn't properly provide heat for a snake that isn't in a room heated to minimum temps (anywhere from 70-85F depending on species), which means the snake will have to hug the heat. Although ambient heat can be provided in a very small enclosure, I have not seen heat raise the ambients by so much as a degree in my tubs that are the size of 66 qt or larger.

Although it's just two snakes, I have also noticed better digestion in my BCI and retic since switching them to ambient. The boa went from pooping every 3-4 feedings eating every 14 days to going every 2-3 weeks, and the retic's bulge disappears quicker and she poops quicker now than on belly heat.

I find it very strange people assume that semi-arboreal snakes require belly heat. In the wild, snakes will only bask in the open when the air temperature is too low to maintain proper body function. That isn't the way they get the majority of their heat.

[REM955]

My understanding is that all snakes, or at least the majority, are built to absorb heat from above like they have been getting for a while now. The blood vessels on the upper part of the body are bigger than below.
Something like that. Could be wrong.