Question regarding SD retics

[dannybgoode]

As per a couple of other posts I'm pretty set on getting an SD Retic bit I've also decided I'm only buying pure locality snakes with their natural markings.

Don't ask me why?! Just what I've decided to do-get a small but quality collection of locality snakes that I find desirable.

Are there pure locality SD's out there or are they all hybrids of some type?

[dave himself]

No mate their actually found on an island their name starts with a K if remember right

[dannybgoode]

So pure locality but selectively bred from small parents?

[dave himself]

No mate if I remember correctly but please don't quote on this there were a few localities that ranged in size that came from islands like I said I know one of the original Wild-types started with a K. Sorry mate that's all I can remember at the moment SDs were never really my thing :(

[dannybgoode]

No worries. Thanks Dave. I'll investigate further when the time comes.

[dave himself]

I mean all the snakes on these different islands were found to be roughly the same size but way smaller than the mainland snakes. That's how mainland snakes got there name, because dwarfs also come from islands as well if my memory serves me right

[riddick07]

I think Kalatoa is the smallest retic. They are not bred to stay small they just are small. Like the Tarahumara locality in boas. Any pure Kalatoa will stay small I think around 6-7ft is as big as they can get and females being the ones able to get that large. I think anery is the only morph naturally occurring in this locality.

Any other morph is from being bred to the big guys. With a high enough % of super dwarf in the snake they will stay smaller but I think it has to be like 75% to start getting the much smaller size again.

[bigsnakegirl785]

There was a small, unscientific study that tracked the growth of an SD vs a couple of mainlands over I think a year or two's period, and even fed heavily the SD didn't grow as fast or get as big at the end of the study as the mainlands. Suggesting, without further research, that they're most likely small due to genetics and not feeding.

[Tsubaki]

To be honest, it's a bit of a mess in the retic naming business, labels are just slapped on and for morphs i guess that does work.. Sort of.. There are many misunderstandings and people just call it what they seem fit, and i am guilty of this myself because otherwise nobody remotely knows what you're talking about.. So that would make it: Mainland are the really big snakes, dwarf somewhere in between... and the superdwarves is basically anything under .. 10ft? i think.. But in reality, the pure locality retics: There are far more forms than just 'Superdwarf', "Dwarf" and "Mainland".. Sorry if i forget any, there are so many of them and a lot of unknown ones as well.. These are just the ones that pop to mind. But this is what i think is important if you get into pure retic forums, knowing what you want. I know you're asking about SD only but there's more to it and i'm just going to tell something about what i know of the island forms.

The best known 'mainlands' are Sumatra, Sulawesi and Borneo, these are the 19ft+ snakes.. Also these all have a very varied look depending on what part they come from, and people just throw all of them together.. Which i think is a shame, Sulawesi are my favourites, but the ones from Makasar look very different from the ones coming from Palu etc.. Makasar sometimes gets it own label, but the rest is all just thrown together, and this also happens with the superdwarves.. Such a shame. .. But i won't get into that any further. Anyway these are what i consider -True Giants- The name mainland is confusing as so many of them are actually just from large islands.

Then there's a group also called "mainlands", they are larger island forms but because they grow up to anywhere between 13-22ft so they are often called mainland, while some get labelled 'dwarf'... Like the Java, Ambon, Buru en Ceram. - Large Island form-

Then you have a group that is called "Dwarf", smaller island forms.. Most of these are from the Selayar island group, Selayars being the largest of them (on average). Bali, Seleyar, Buton, Tanahjampea, Timor, Halmahera, Madura(might be more of a large form, not sure).. Are they really Dwarf when they can still reach up to 15ft? -"Dwarf" Island form-

Madu (Honey island), Kayuadi, Kalatoa, Kalao, Lombok, Karompa, basically every retic that comes from the 'Sunda' island groups. Are labelled as Super Dwarves, they grow anywhere between 7-10ft.. They stay very small and yes even if you powerfeed them they will remain small, however, i do believe a power-fed animal will be slightly larger than its parents and that trend will continue and they will overcome their 'limit' eventually. The potential to get as large as a mainland, is there in their genes. In my opinion, this is why the earliest discovered and most bred former 'Superdwarf' the Tanah jampea., has a lot of really large specimens in captivity. The first animals in captivity were sold as super-dwarves, now they are known as dwarves and they have a lot of variety in sizes. Some say this is a natural diversity, but i'm not to sure about that.. Either they were grown too fast to breed, or they were mixed at some point -True Dwarf / Superdwarf-

And then there is another group, which has animals that stay under 6,5ft.. But i haven't seen any for sale tbh. Anyway i am missing many varieties, and so many of these could be divided further.. But the truth is, if you want a locality retic.. You do the research about that specific animal.. Not about the group they put it in :D

[dannybgoode]

Thanks Tsubaki. That's great information.

I'll do some more thorough research nearer the time and will bear all you say in mind.

[Tsubaki]

Glad it was of any use to you, retics are amazing and the right one is a great experience to care for :D

[bigsnakegirl785]

Thanks for the info Tsubaki, I knew about the general idea there just not the way the specific localities were split up so I stuck to generalities. :P

[Sublimeballs]

Any questions on locales feel free to ask, locale retics are my thing and I'm sure I know them better than anyone on here(kyle might disagree).

As far as pure SD locales you're looking for kalatoa, karoompa, and madu. These are the smallest retics wideley available. They belong to the "true" dwarves(which include the SDs) or the subspecies M. R. Jampeanus. These range from the tiny kalatoa to the impressive jampea. Anery is the only naturally occurring morph in the true dwarves; there is a "black pastel" project with them but idk... doesn't seem to be taken seriously. They typically have a reputation as being flighty but mine range from high strung to mellow as can be. As for size, my female kalatoa is about 3 now and around 8 feet long and super slender compared to all my other retics( I have all 3 recognized subspecies). My male is 2 and like 5 feet... I've caught bigger corn snakes... I suspect she'll end up 9ish feet and he'll end up 6 maybe 7.

[dannybgoode]

All brilliant information. Thanks guys. Looks like my dream of owning a Retic may become a reality in that case.

A male Kalatoa should be easy enough to source-I think I know of at least one reputable store with them in at the moment.

One of the uk's very few large herp shows its local to me in a couple of weeks also so may have to go along to that. Just to look of course ;)

[dave himself]

I wouldn't get your hopes up on the big shows Danny when I was on Facebook most of the retic people were complaining they were pretty poor. I would hedge my bets more on that shop you were talking about mate :)

[dannybgoode]

The Doncaster show is allegedly pretty good. Never been before but it's about the biggest. A lot of the breeders who go to Hamm go to Donnie also.

It's only down the road from me so will go along. Nothing ventured nothing gained. If I get chance to go to wharf in the near future I'll go and check theirs out also. They're specifically listed as Kalatoa retics but would want to see proof of lineage.

[dave himself]

If you can checkout the reptile rooms stall if they have one that's were that little anery guy you liked so much came from

[dannybgoode]

Nice-thank you. The Reptile Room is within driving distance of me in the event they're not there. Sure it's a bit of a drive bit not silly. May give them a call some point see if they have what I want.

[Snake_eyes_88]

I'll be attending Donny too, you've picked the right one as there's always the most variety of species etc at the September one. If your after something specific then arrive early as the queue can get massive and once the halls full you can easily miss what your looking for.

Eco exotics deals in mixed blood SD's mostly but also does produce some pure locality SD's too... I got my one from him and couldn't be happier with the little guy tbh.. He does have a table there sometimes but I didn't see his table at the last show.. There was only one other guy there last time with anything pure locality unfortunately.

Take a peg for your nose as some people really don't know how to shower for some reason, and don't forget to hit the bar for a pint if your not driving yourself... :D

[dannybgoode]

Thanks for the tips snake eyes. Unfortunately I really do think it'll be window shopping this time round but of course who can say for sure :)

[Snake_eyes_88]

Thanks for the tips snake eyes. Unfortunately I really do think it'll be window shopping this time round but of course who can say for sure :)

Haha I've said that every show since the first one I went to in 2010... Good luck with that! ;)

[MartinD]

I have been looking at SD's and came across this guy,https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1613209922040934&set=pcb.1114693091977223&type=3 but as I have not researched it fully to my liking I am not going to rush in.

I PM'd Dave himself and then read in this thread that he's not up on SD's lol

[dave himself]

Yeah but I'm learning ;)