Weightloss in short period of time [Archive]

FinishingFlight

07-04-16, 11:47 PM

So as I had posted before I have recently obtained a pair of Axanthics about a month ago. I've been struggling a bit with getting them to eat for me since I got them. The female has me concerned. For about 3 weeks of not eating she seems to have lost weight way too fast. My normal female went on a hunger strike of 4 months and didn't loose weight this quickly.

When I first brought them home the female had eaten the day before and weighed 72g. She ate one F/T fuzzy from me four days after, and then refused food for 3 weeks.

She was overly stressed by my presence, or even the food presence. So I offered food only once a week, tried braining, scenting, live pulling water a few days before and so on.

Finally last week she took a pinky after leaving it in there with her, and then took a F/T fuzzy, also after leaving it in there. Noticing her body looking leaner I took her out three days after feeding and weighed her, she was only 62g.

Is a 10g difference over a month something I should be concerned about? She is about the same length as my other female (maybe 1" shorter), but she weighs 20g lighter.

I tried my best to get pictures, does she look skinny? Is this something I should be contacting a vet for? Or giving her more time?

Ian of Oldham

07-05-16, 12:00 AM

Are you feeding day or night, as some will only take food at night, do not handle her the day you feed and put it in at night just leave it and see if that helps.

2 Royals 1 corn 1 Boa and a mad Cat.

Andy_G

07-05-16, 08:05 AM

That could've been poops left in her system. Not a signifigant amount of weight IMO and she doesn't look unhealthy in the picture at all. It sounds like she has settled in and has begun eating so I would say that if she continues to eat well then she will gain weight, if that doesn't happen a vet visit may be in order....i would be happy to suggest a few things to increase the consistency of her feedings if you want... if not, ignore the following. :)

What are the temps and what kind of cage is it? I hate sounding like a broken record, but these guys do better with warmer temps and start off much better in a tub for their first year or so(at least!). The main triggers for fasting with these are insufficient temps and inappropriate (too big or too exposed) caging. If you have them in a tank, change that and perhaps revisit it once the snake puts on some size.

These guys are most active at dusk and dawn and with westerns in particular, time of day shouldn't affect how they are eating, unlike corns, boas, balls, etc... Just keep leaving the food item with them overnight and if temps are right and they feel secure the problem should fix itself.

Perhaps someone else may have other suggestions? I know that some other people have inconsistent feeders.

FinishingFlight

07-05-16, 04:57 PM

Ian of Oldham - Since getting her, she has only been handled once for weighing and otherwise still left alone. So not sure. She has been offered food day and night, left with it, wiggled in front of her, pushed her nose against it (thats a heck no). I'm getting close to wanting to try scented, or getting another live.

Andy - I'm glad to hear that it doesn't sound super concerning. I am seriously considering just putting her in a tub. Possibly the male too. He is doing better but still isn't eating as I would like him to. Their temps are around 90-94 on the hot side and the cool side is around 75* during the day time. At night I turn everything off and it drops to 70* on both sides. Should I maybe get an under tank and just heat consistently?

Andy_G

07-05-16, 04:59 PM

FinishingFlight

07-05-16, 05:23 PM

I'm going to look into getting some heating tape. I've heard stories of them causing fires so I've been a bit hesitant to try them but the heat pads get too expensive over time. Considering I have a cage that is long and narrow (30x12"?) if I ran the tape along the back, length wise, would that give enough of a gradient for hot and cold from front to back within a 12 inch space?

Andy_G

07-05-16, 05:31 PM

Don't run it along the back because it won't do what you want it to as effectively, get 1 foot of 11 inch heat tape and place it under one side, that will work best. The exo terra heat pads work fine as well. The only circumstance where they would cause problems is if no thermostat or rheostat were used...but they should always be used in the first place to control heat from any tape/mat as well as with ceramic heat emitters.

FinishingFlight

07-05-16, 05:52 PM

I had meant under the tank, my bad. So with the 12x11" section of heat tape that will help raise my ambient temperature on the cold side as well?

I plan on having three cages on a shelving unit, I would like to have all three running off of some type of under tank heating. I have a thermostat on the way soon as I decide on pad or tape, can I plug in a powerstrip to a thermostat and only have the probe for one of the pads/tape? can they handle multiple or would I need three thermostats?

Andy_G

07-05-16, 06:42 PM

In a tub possibly, in a tank no, so you can use the light as well for ambient heat if you like. Power bars aren't usually the best to plug into a thrrmostat, it's usually better to use a split extnsion cord or get a thermostat with multiple plugs.

valkea

07-05-16, 08:43 PM

Try covering her enclosure with a towel / blanket to get it pitch black after you put food in. That's helped my male eat when he's being fussy. I've also put him in a box with food and left him there for 30 mins - hour but that may backfire since it does involve handling them more.

From my experience they can be temperamental. Mine sometimes will take from tongs, sometimes I need to leave it in their enclosure and sometimes they just refuse. Mine are in tubs with belly heat.

Edit: forgot a word :)

Ian of Oldham

07-06-16, 12:02 AM

I turn my heat off at night , But I al so have heat bricks that heat up with the lamp and lit it out at night, it work very well for my lot

2Royal, 1 Corn, 1 Boa and a mad Cat.

Snake_eyes_88

07-06-16, 12:53 AM

I run my temps consistent 24/7... Never had any serious feeding issues from this myself...

If you turn temps down to 70s in the night I'd worry about feeding him at all.. Considering their whole digestion system is reliant on temperature, If you drop the temps that far after feeding when there's food inside the stomach then surely there will be digestion issues?

My reptile room stays 24c as a base temp, I still wouldn't want them going without heat with a full stomach. :)

Ian of Oldham

07-06-16, 03:56 PM

Dose the temp not drop at night in there native country, they do not seem to have feeding problems over there.

FinishingFlight

07-07-16, 10:39 PM

I'll have to get some pictures up soon but I now have a sweater tub on top of a heating mat. My thermostats just got here yesterday so I put her in there. I have the thermostat set at 98*, does that sound all right? My ambient air is now at 77-80* I'm putting everyone else on belly heat and thermostats too to try and help. Then I just need a smaller watt for my lamps so I can raise the ambient air temps.

I'm glad my normal female is a pig and is a crazy eater. She has seemed to do fine with my current set up. Yet I just want everyone more consistent with great husbandry.

Plus its a reptile convention on saturday and we now have two empty cages...

Andy_G

07-07-16, 10:56 PM

Dial it down to 95-96.

Snake_eyes_88

07-08-16, 04:12 PM

Dose the temp not drop at night in there native country, they do not seem to have feeding problems over there.

It will drop... But I doubt they'd be found in an area that was constant 70f while digesting.

Andy_G

07-08-16, 05:45 PM

It will drop... But I doubt they'd be found in an area that was constant 70f while digesting.

You're right...but also not. They range from Canada to Mexico. :)

Ian of Oldham

07-09-16, 12:18 AM

So if we want our pets to live as natural as possible it wright to drop the temp at night, I accept that the digestive system will not function as good but they well be close to there natural living.

Andy_G

07-09-16, 05:31 AM

I want my pets to eat well...night drops reduce the chances of that with this species whether it occurs in nature or not... To each their own.

FinishingFlight

07-09-16, 11:41 PM

Well I am here to report that the constant belly heat worked. The female ate two fuzzies yesterday. She still wouldn't take them off the tongs, but soon as I stepped back she grabbed them and ate. When I open the tub to check on her she seems much more relaxed and isn't as grumpy.

Now I have to wait for the male to shed before I can really see if he is eating consistently as well. Thank you Andy for the helpful info, its worked for her.

Snake_eyes_88

07-10-16, 02:55 PM

So if we want our pets to live as natural as possible it wright to drop the temp at night, I accept that the digestive system will not function as good but they well be close to there natural living.

I want my pets to eat well...night drops reduce the chances of that with this species whether it occurs in nature or not... To each their own.

Your right Andy_G ... In this hobbie we don't just strive to imitate nature, we try to improve upon it where we can. In nature they also carry parasites, live at risk to predators and will go through long periods of starvation on many occasions... We remove these aspects as they're detrimental to the overall health of our animals.

If a night time drop reduces the feed response to a level where the keeper is worried then I'd say why not improve on nature and offer them optimal conditions all the time.

Andy_G

07-10-16, 07:04 PM

Glad to help, FF.

You're totally right snake_eyes. Captivity is a controlled environment so why not give ideal temps 24/7? Because of their range and adaptability...these guys don't even need brumation to reproduce with great success...so in this species specifically, all a night drop would do is stress the owner! :)

FinishingFlight

07-23-16, 12:02 AM

So a bit of an update. After the one feeding that I celebrated I found out she had regurgitated it a few days later. Possibly think the two fuzzies might have been too much for her? She has not eaten since. I offered 4 days after I found the regurgitation and once more a week later, she has refused both. Not with as much stress as before. So last time she ate was on the 8th. Right now she is in blue so I'm still leaving her alone and not offering food until she sheds.

She is now down to 60g. She will push her nose into the fuzzy but then turns away. She isn't hissing at it, which I hope is her being less stressed because of the tub vs. glass tank. I'm planning on offering live a day after she sheds and then if she refuses waiting a week and trying again, then if she still refuses we will be off to the vet.

Andy_G

07-23-16, 05:01 AM

Probably too much food i'm afraid. You unfortunately also offered food much to soon after the regurgitation so I am not surprised it wasn't taken. Their bodies need time to recover so it is best to wait 10-14 days before offering. Feed a smaller than normal meal as well, the last thing you'd want is another regurgitation. Sorry to hear of all the problems.

sattva

07-23-16, 08:08 AM

When my little JCP Ralph went missing, two days after I got him, and before I got a chance to feed him, would not eat when I got him back, a month later. I tried everything to get him to eat... I was about ready to try assists feeding, when I email the guy I got him from... He said stick him and a small meal in a paper bag and make sure he is in the dark! It worked for me! I would drop all the way down to a pinky just to see if he can hold a small meal down...

I don't want to hijack this thread but I might be doing the temp thing wrong... All three of my guys are on the cool sides of their cages every morning when I get up... The room never drops below 75* So I thought why use the electricity if their not going to be on the hot side right? We are going into a heat wave where I am; over 100s for the next few days... I have been leaving the belly heat on 24/7 48 hours after they eat; But after the 48 hours is up I turn them off at night... Tell me if I am wrong here guys, constructive criticism will be appreciated. I do have one of those new fangled Thermometer gun gadgets coming in the mail so I am moving on up...

FinishingFlight

07-28-16, 06:31 PM

Well she took a F/T pinky two days ago (these pinkies must be a day old, they are the smallest I have ever seen)! So it was barely a meal but she took it almost right away, so things are looking up for her. I'll try feeding her two pinkies in four or so days and see if she takes it. The male ate immediately the last two feedings so I'm a happy snake mom! Everyone is eating for once!