Stressed boa?

[cwburns32]

Hello all,

I received a 8 mo old male Tarahumara boa from Stephen Richardson at Scaly Babies. It has been 8 days since I have gotten him and I am beginning to worry if he is stressed and not liking his new home :(

He is in a 41 qt tub with 2 hides (one on each side), aspen shavings and a water bowl. Warm side temps are anywhere from 82-89 at his basking spot, cool side 77-80ish depending on time of day. Humidity ranges from about 58-66%.

He has not eaten and he has not passed urate or pooped and has retreated to his cool side hide for the most part. The first few nights he lightened up very much so at night but I haven't noticed that the past few nights which has me worried that he is very stressed.

He was in shed when he shipped, I have handled him twice since I have gotten him...once to take him out of box and put him in and a second time right after he shed. I know the move, plus the shed, plus a new home is probably incredibly stressful for him but I am starting to worry that he there is continued stress and that he is not happy at all.

I know he was in tubs that you could not see into or out of so maybe he is not liking that in the new tub? Also his tub is lower to the ground so when I open it up it probably appears to him that I am towering over him. Should I raise his enclosure a bit? I'm just trying to spit ball ideas here because I am beginning to worry and just want the little guy to be happy.

Any advice or suggestions would be great. Thanks.

[riddick07]

How often are opening the container? Even if you aren't handling him looking in all the time can be just as stressful on a new snake. 8 days is not a long time for not eating. Mine around the same age are fed around every 14 days so you shouldn't be worried all that much yet.

Your bin doesn't look as long as mine but I have 4 hides to help with them feeling secure.
http://i.imgur.com/qBCa0TH.jpg

The humidity sounds fine but the temps are a bit high. My cold side is low 70s, middle area high 70s to mid 80s. The hot spot is around 90 or so. Tarahumaras tolerate and like the cold more than other boas. And it snows occasionally in their natural habitat so don't be too worried to lower your temps! I very rarely find mine hanging out at the hot area. Right now the male is hiding on the cold side next to the water bowl and the female is hanging out in an area around 78 to 80.

[cwburns32]

The container gets opened to change water and check temps. Might get opened once, maybe twice a day. I was gone for a few days for work and it didn't get opened for 2 days in a row. Maybe a total of 10 times over the course of 8 days here.

It hasn't been 8 days since last feeding, it has been 8 days since had him and he was already about 6 days from his last feeding when I got him, so 14 days.

My bin is 24" long and about 18" wide he is about 19-20" in length. He has 2 hides one each side of the enclosure, unlike your 4. Don't have the room for 4.

Do you have Taras? It sounds like you keep yours in coolerish temps which is why I ask. If I lower my temps it becomes harder to keep the hot spot right at 90. There is a nice gradient across the enclosure though. 86 at it's warmest side (not in warm hide) and about 77 where he is at now. Maybe lower the thermostat a degree or so?

I'm a little worried about him not lightening up at night. He did it the first few nights and he looked beautiful now he tends to stay his typical darker color in the evening. Attached a night time and day time photo for reference.

I'm very likely just overthinking things. I think raising the cage a bit and maybe closing off the sides and back so he can't see out may help but don't want to change too much, too quickly and cause more stress. Thoughts?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I wouldn't really worry about him not lightening up, they do that as they want to it seems. My boas don't consistently darken with temps or time of day. They do often darken after eating, but other than that they will darken at random times.

Have you tried feeding him yet? It's unclear whether you offered and he refused or you're just not offering.

[cwburns32]

I wouldn't really worry about him not lightening up, they do that as they want to it seems. My boas don't consistently darken with temps or time of day. They do often darken after eating, but other than that they will darken at random times.

Have you tried feeding him yet? It's unclear whether you offered and he refused or you're just not offering.

I offered and while he was very interested in it he never striked. I let it sit in there for a bit, he was all over it inspecting it but not wanting to eat. He was fed about 6 days before I received him and it has been 8 days since I have had him. Tried feeding him about 4 days ago or so and he refused. Going to try again tomorrow or Monday. I know they are nocturnal - is it better to feed them later the day more so into the evening? Currently have I have his thermostat running about 88 during day and 83 at night. Should I flip flop that to help with digesting when he does eventually eat?

[Andy_G]

Just offer food once a week. He may take a few weeks to settle in and start eating, and if he takes his time then turn up the temps to simply stimulate appetite.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I offered and while he was very interested in it he never striked. I let it sit in there for a bit, he was all over it inspecting it but not wanting to eat. He was fed about 6 days before I received him and it has been 8 days since I have had him. Tried feeding him about 4 days ago or so and he refused. Going to try again tomorrow or Monday. I know they are nocturnal - is it better to feed them later the day more so into the evening? Currently have I have his thermostat running about 88 during day and 83 at night. Should I flip flop that to help with digesting when he does eventually eat?

Time of day doesn't usually seem to affect them.

I'd offer every other week if he's refused both meals, if you space it out a bit more they may be more willing to eat. They have to wait longer and get a bit hungrier. Boas have slow metabolisms, so at his age every 7-14 days is good so he hasn't gone all that long without food. Even a month or two won't affect him.

I would also try warming up his prey so that it's a little above room temp. If he's interested, that bit of warmth may spark it.

Also, how big is he, and what are you offering? Mouse or rat, and what size?

[cwburns32]

Just offer food once a week. He may take a few weeks to settle in and start eating, and if he takes his time then turn up the temps to simply stimulate appetite.

Sounds good I'll wait until this Wedn or Thur to try again. I haven't been warming up his food much just thawing to slightly above room temp. I know warmth of food isn't that much of a concern for a boas as it is for pythons but the breeder said his food has always been warmed above room temps. This may be all I need to do. Thanks!

Time of day doesn't usually seem to affect them.

I'd offer every other week if he's refused both meals, if you space it out a bit more they may be more willing to eat. They have to wait longer and get a bit hungrier. Boas have slow metabolisms, so at his age every 7-14 days is good so he hasn't gone all that long without food. Even a month or two won't affect him.

I would also try warming up his prey so that it's a little above room temp. If he's interested, that bit of warmth may spark it.

Also, how big is he, and what are you offering? Mouse or rat, and what size?

I'll wait until middle or end of this week to feed again. I have a blow dryer I will be using next time I try to feed as I have not been doing this - like you said this may be all I need.

He is about 9 months old, about 20" or so. I am picking up a scale today. Breeder was alternating f/t medium mice and fuzzy rats. I only had access to small mice at first and was going to attempt to feed him 2 and he refused. I was able to get my hands on some fuzzy rats and some med-lar mice. I can take photos of the food I intend to feed next week.

Thank you both for all the help.

[riddick07]

Yes I have two:) They are just under a year old. My female that just finished shedding she's going towards getting darker and pink instead of brown. I'm not complaining of course!
http://i.imgur.com/F3XcqvH.jpg

Do you have an infrared tempgun and measuring the basking spot directly on the plastic? They will move shavings around so getting the temp reading directly on the bottom of the bin should be best for that spot. I would definitely lower temps some even if that isn't the direct reason for not eating. My male was prone to regurging his meals until I got the temps to his liking because he is a pain. I also found neither of them would move away from the cold side when I had temps too high. They aren't like other boas and are meant to have access to colder temp ranges.

He sounds a little big for his age. I would defintiely make sure you have him on spaced out feedings. Mine will be a year old next month and are only on fuzzy mice (my female might be able to move to hoppers at the most). He is almost eating what a normal BCI at that age is eating instead of a dwarf. The difference probably just has to do with how often the breeder was feeding since I tend towards feeding very little when it comes to my boas.

And I just want to mention if he isn't pure Tara, though to my untrained eye he does look like a Tara!, then he might be a fine size and might not need the cooler temps.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Sounds good I'll wait until this Wedn or Thur to try again. I haven't been warming up his food much just thawing to slightly above room temp. I know warmth of food isn't that much of a concern for a boas as it is for pythons but the breeder said his food has always been warmed above room temps. This may be all I need to do. Thanks!



I'll wait until middle or end of this week to feed again. I have a blow dryer I will be using next time I try to feed as I have not been doing this - like you said this may be all I need.

He is about 9 months old, about 20" or so. I am picking up a scale today. Breeder was alternating f/t medium mice and fuzzy rats. I only had access to small mice at first and was going to attempt to feed him 2 and he refused. I was able to get my hands on some fuzzy rats and some med-lar mice. I can take photos of the food I intend to feed next week.

Thank you both for all the help.

That sounds like rather large meals...when my boa was that size she was eating hopper mice. She was 80 grams, and hoppers should be 7-12 grams give or take a few grams depending on source. The rat equivalent would be rat pinks, and the rat pinks I get are slightly bigger than mouse hoppers.

If he's closer to 20" than 30" one small mouse (assuming your small mice are ~13-18 grams), let alone 2, is too much food (don't feed multiple prey items, stick to one appropriately-sized prey item). My boa didn't start on small mice until she was nearly 30" long and just over 150 grams.

I'd stick to mice exclusively until he's eating jumbo mice, and then switch to weaned rats. During this stage in a rat's development, mice are much more nutritious than rats, and it's easier to make sure you're not overfeeding since they come in much smaller sizes than rats.

You should be feeding meals that either leave no bulge or a barely noticeable bulge with no scale separation. Definitely post a comparison photo. If the mice are as big as I think they are, that may be a reason why he isn't eating them - he knows they're too big.

[cwburns32]

Yes I have two:) They are just under a year old. My female that just finished shedding she's going towards getting darker and pink instead of brown. I'm not complaining of course!

Do you have an infrared tempgun and measuring the basking spot directly on the plastic? They will move shavings around so getting the temp reading directly on the bottom of the bin should be best for that spot. I would definitely lower temps some even if that isn't the direct reason for not eating. My male was prone to regurging his meals until I got the temps to his liking because he is a pain. I also found neither of them would move away from the cold side when I had temps too high. They aren't like other boas and are meant to have access to colder temp ranges.

He sounds a little big for his age. I would defintiely make sure you have him on spaced out feedings. Mine will be a year old next month and are only on fuzzy mice (my female might be able to move to hoppers at the most). He is almost eating what a normal BCI at that age is eating instead of a dwarf. The difference probably just has to do with how often the breeder was feeding since I tend towards feeding very little when it comes to my boas.

And I just want to mention if he isn't pure Tara, though to my untrained eye he does look like a Tara!, then he might be a fine size and might not need the cooler temps.

I do have an IR temp gun. There is a very thin layer of substrate and I generally have been measuring the substrate although have measured temp of the tub directly from time to time. It never has been over 90 degrees. I often measure under the cool side hide where he is laying. The past 2 days I have been able to keep it at 76 degrees exactly regardless of the temp outside. Probably can lower it a degree or 2. How low do you let the temps get at night?

Breeder was feeding him every 8 days or so. He does seem a bit big for his age. Attached another photo from right after he shed that may help show his length.

Thanks for the insight!

That sounds like rather large meals...when my boa was that size she was eating hopper mice. She was 80 grams, and hoppers should be 7-12 grams give or take a few grams depending on source. The rat equivalent would be rat pinks, and the rat pinks I get are slightly bigger than mouse hoppers.

If he's closer to 20" than 30" one small mouse (assuming your small mice are ~13-18 grams), let alone 2, is too much food (don't feed multiple prey items, stick to one appropriately-sized prey item). My boa didn't start on small mice until she was nearly 30" long and just over 150 grams.

I'd stick to mice exclusively until he's eating jumbo mice, and then switch to weaned rats. During this stage in a rat's development, mice are much more nutritious than rats, and it's easier to make sure you're not overfeeding since they come in much smaller sizes than rats.

You should be feeding meals that either leave no bulge or a barely noticeable bulge with no scale separation. Definitely post a comparison photo. If the mice are as big as I think they are, that may be a reason why he isn't eating them - he knows they're too big.

Didn't have a chance to pick up a scale today but will after work tomorrow. I have attached a photo. The small mouse on the left was the size he rejected. The middle size is the only frozen mouse size available at the nearest shop after reading what you said seems a tad too big. The rat fuzzy is on the right. I have heard that they aren't as nutritious when they are so young but probably the most approrpiate size within 30 miles of here. considering ordering online but temps are in 80-90s here in summer and I work until 5-6 pm.

[cwburns32]

He had a healthy bowel movement today and is very active at the moment. Cleaned his cage real good and he has been cruising ever since he got back in his enclosure.

Will be trying to feed him again tomorrow. Any recommendation on the size I should use of the above? Thanks!

[SWDK]

That's good news! Hope the feeding goes as planned.

[cwburns32]

That's good news! Hope the feeding goes as planned.

I am hoping so as well. Would you be able to advice on which size frozen rodent to use in the image attached? Someone earlier asked for me to post a side by side pick of his food but I never heard back. Thanks!

[Andy_G]

Always a good idea to start off with feeding what he was already eating with the previous owner/breeder. If you know or can find out that information, then you know what to use. :)

[cwburns32]

Always a good idea to start off with feeding what he was already eating with the previous owner/breeder. If you know or can find out that information, then you know what to use. :)

Breeder was alternating him on f/t medium mice and fuzzy rats. I didn't have access to these sizes initially so I purchased what was sold to me as small mice (far left in photo). Then the following week grabbed fuzzy rats (far right) and what was sold to me as med-lar mice (middle). As far as keeping it the same I think I will elect to go with the fuzzy rat although I have learned that they don't carry as much nutrition f/t as live.

The med-lar mice look a little big, the small mice look a little small, fuzzy rats right in between. A previous user mentioned that the med-lar mice/fuzzy rats may be to big but that was before I posted the images. I haven't fed a snake in many years and the last was a well off adult python so I'm not too certain on what size to feed my small 9 mo old boa.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[DLLNP]

I feel like at 9 months he should on hopper mice (7-12g) but I haven't read through this while thread so it's possible you've said your boa is larger than average...

[cwburns32]

I feel like at 9 months he should on hopper mice (7-12g) but I haven't read through this while thread so it's possible you've said your boa is larger than average...

From what I heard from a few users already he seems slightly bigger than normal. Like I said breeder was alternately medium mice and fuzzy rats every other 8-10 days which seems like a heavy feeding schedule. Thing is I'm currently stuck with these sizes until I place an order online. For now which of the 3 do you think is best to feed him? I am getting ready to begin thawing in a bit here. Thanks!

[SWDK]

I'd offer the fuzzy rat. Rats generally have more nutritional value so that's you're best bet in my opinion. I definitely don't think it's too large by any means.

[cwburns32]

I'd offer the fuzzy rat. Rats generally have more nutritional value so that's you're best bet in my opinion. I definitely don't think it's too large by any means.

That's what I have thawing right now. Thanks for confirming for me.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I am hoping so as well. Would you be able to advice on which size frozen rodent to use in the image attached? Someone earlier asked for me to post a side by side pick of his food but I never heard back. Thanks!

I didn't respond because that wasn't a side by side comparison and I have no way to know the size of the prey items. If you could get weights of the prey items and the snake or put the snake and the prey items in the same picture, I could help you a lot more.

[Aaron_S]

If he doesn't eat again toss some more hides in there. Dont purchase them, just use cardboard. The snake probably isn't feeling fully secure yet. IF it doesn't eat.

[cwburns32]

If he doesn't eat again toss some more hides in there. Dont purchase them, just use cardboard. The snake probably isn't feeling fully secure yet. IF it doesn't eat.

Thanks. He definitely ate today! Took him about 10 seconds to strike. I think he is feeling much more comfortable now. In his warm hide now where it's about 87F. I'll let him be for a full 48 hours before handling him again.

[SWDK]

Glad it ate for you. I didn't think it was going to much of an issue to get it feeding.