View Full Version : Cuddles the Woma Python
Yeah. I actually named the snake that.
Anyway...
She was hatched May 12th.
She just ate a frozen/thawed pinkie. I just dropped it in front of her and she looked and decided to start on it.
I will say that the pinkie was pretty small. The pet shop I was talking to was thinking I might need a "tweener", between pinkie and fuzzy.
However, she is doing something weird right now; she is rubbing her face into the ground, but avoiding all her hides in doing so. I am actually worried about her eyes. I attached a photo of her in action.
Note: She just started this a minute after swallowing the pinkie. She was not doing this earlier when exploring. Still tongue flicking.
Any thoughts?
She can't possibly be in shed right now, can she? She is not looking blue at all.
Or am I just upset my snake is acting like a snake?
PS: I do not have a photogenic picture yet. I will provide one in the future.
Edit:
She is playing with the water...
There was a splash...
Then she went back to the rubbing...
chairman
06-19-16, 07:53 PM
Well, they're a burrowing species... perhaps she wants to go "underground"? Maybe some shredded newspaper?
SerpentineDream
06-19-16, 11:00 PM
My woma sometimes rubs her face after eating, particularly if it was a stretch to get her mouth around the prey item. It concerned me at first but now I've come to accept it as normal for her. She always stops after a while.
Another, less benign reason could be mites. Mite infestations cause itching, which would result in your woma rubbing / scratching. They will also dunk themselves in their water dishes in an attempt to drown the mites.
However, since your woma just started this behavior immediately after eating, I'm guessing it's not mites.
I did check for mites and saw nothing. This was a visual check for moving black dots.
I do have some aspen chips that I was going to use next time after cleaning. She was on newspaper before so I didn't want to change on her. That, and ages already done a lap under it so age can get under there if she wants.
I will use either those chips or shredded paper when I get home and also stuff the hides.
Note: when I gave the breeder the update that she ate, he mentioned that was her first meal. That doesn't sound right to me.
SerpentineDream
06-20-16, 09:12 AM
Note: when I gave the breeder the update that she ate, he mentioned that was her first meal. That doesn't sound right to me.
A reputable breeder won't sell an animal until it has eaten at least 3 or 4 times. Selling you an animal that's never eaten before in the hope that it will is bad business.
That said, if you're sure she's free of mites, she looks pretty good from what I can see in the photo. I thought the face rubbing after a meal was a quirk unique to Ophelia but maybe it's a woma thing. Since my practical experience with womas is limited to a sample size of one, maybe those with more will chime in.
FWIW I have my woma on aspen bedding. It works well and I like it, but curiously enough I rarely see her burrow in it. My corn snakes burrow more than she does. She prefers instead to camp out in her hides with just enough of her head poking out that she can see without being seen (or so she seems to think). IIRC womas in the wild are inclined to hijack burrows that other animals have already made rather than digging their own.
In parallel with your hijack comment, I was thinking about placing the hides down on news paper them pouring in the substrate. This way the entrance will be a bit smaller. Might be a bit more secure for her.
We'll see.
As to the potential of mites, when I get her out she'll go through a damp paper towel and into a ziploc bag to look at later. Just in case.
Any other diagnostics to run on her, related or not to the rubbing, are welcome.
Got some gloves. She still isn't fond of me yet.
Put her in her temp holding box.
Put down an inch worth of aspen chips.
Replaced the water.
Lowered her onto her big hide.
She stood there frozen, not sure what to make of the aspen.
30 seconds later, got on top of the thermometer on the wall.
Now has made a lap re-exploring everything as it is all covered except for the tops of the hides. And some packing in the hides.
Normal, right?
Rubbing Theory: Maybe we stink. I do not know about you, SerpentineDream, but I handled this pinkie a lot to make sure it was thawed out. Maybe she is getting whatever oils/ sweat off of her face.
SerpentineDream
06-20-16, 08:48 PM
Three reasons she's doing laps come to mind 1) Curiosity 2) Looking for a comfortable temperature and 3) Still hungry and looking for more food. Give her a while to explore. If she's had ample opportunity to check everything out, her temps are correct and she is still relentlessly cruising her cage, she's hoping to find more pinkies. Womas have big appetites. I had to switch my juvenile from small adult mice to fuzzy rats (same size but more nutritionally dense) and feed her twice weekly instead of once weekly to keep her from trying to eat ME and every once in a while she still tries to swallow my hand. I call her my Hungry Hungry Hippo, or alternately The Black Hole.
I don't touch her rodents at all with bare hands if I can help it. I wear gloves and use tongs to feed her. The less she associates the smell of my skin with that of food the better.
Touching her food I admit was a big mistake. Next time I will just be more liberal with the defrost time.
I am thinking it is the hunger as I was setting some of those infamous head bobs...
She still is only a month old. I was just going to give her two pinks and hope it makes a bulge, but maybe I need to look upwards sooner than I thought.
As for temperature, she has a range of a bit over 90 to 79 ish on the far end.
However, I did check on her this morning and she is nestled inside the big hide stuffed with aspen. It also appears she tired some of the other hides on the cooler end, knocking some of the chips out of the way.
The face rubbing is normal. Getting her jaw back in place and/or trying to burrow.
All new snakes eat a few times in a row while settling in before being bothered. It's whole world just changed so of course she won't be settled yet. Do your best to leave her be aside from necessary water changes and feeding attempts until then. That one is more than large enough for fuzzies. Switching to loose substrate so early (paper for new acquisitions for the first month at least is usually the best way to go) and adding another new change on top of everything else going on was a mistake in my opinion, but womas are pretty forgiving of little things like that and she should do just fine.
Ok. I will pick up a pack of fuzzies and see how they compare to the pinkies.
A bit of an update: I did buy a couple fuzzies. I was feeling shape in the bag and it didn't seem small enough for her. On cue, she yawns... Ok.
Come Sunday, I will thaw one out and see how she handles it.
I am not home most of the day, but it seems once the light in her cage goes out she goes into exploring mode.
She is still rubbing. Still the same sort of angle as above, and she does this down the entire length of her body, nose to tail. Almost like she is that bored she has to bank her turns. Could it be possible she has a loose jaw if trying to push it in? I know she has at least once found her way under the substrate a little bit. Not bothered by the aspen chips anymore.
The big hide is pretty stuffed. It seems to be her to go spot.
No her jaw isn't loose. She's still getting used to her surroundings and it'll take a couple weeks until she settles in and shows normal behaviour. In the meanwhile she will push and nudge and scrape along the cage perimeter. All the more reason to let her be. Also, these guys hatch out big enough for fuzzies so unless the ones you got are abnormally large I am sure she will handle them just fine. :)
Thank you for your input.
This is much different than the "armchair experience" I had this past year and so.
I suppose I'll come back with a report on the fuzzies come Sunday and the vet a week after. Ideally, she will down them without any input of my own and nothing will unusual will happen.
(sigh)
She still scares me.
SerpentineDream
06-21-16, 08:40 PM
The rubbing and roaming alarmed me too at first but I got over it. Andy is right. She needs time to settle in and relax before handling her or making any more dramatic changes to her habitat.
They can handle surprisingly large prey. Ophelia was ready for bigger rodents before I was prepared to give them to her - her body looked large enough to accomodate them but that little tiny woma head didn't. It was fine. I gave her bigger rodents, she rubbed and scraped, but she always got them down and stared at me hoping for more.
Thank you for your input.
This is much different than the "armchair experience" I had this past year and so.
I suppose I'll come back with a report on the fuzzies come Sunday and the vet a week after. Ideally, she will down them without any input of my own and nothing will unusual will happen.
(sigh)
She still scares me.
You're very welcome.
Vet? Is there a health problem present? Less is usually more when it comes to new acquisitions, so unless you KNOW something is wrong or you're dealing with a WC animal that requires treatment for parasites, you may want to save your money and avoid stressing her out with the unnecessary visit or that rubbing/settling in period that seems to have you concerned may last a bit longer. Some "exotic" vets will administer unnecessary prophylactic antibiotics/medications that can have adverse effects. She looks healthy, she has already eaten for you, and is acting quite normal from the sounds of things...the only irregularity I see here is that the breeder let her go without any feedings which is a very poor practice but thankfully wasn't an issue in this case...so I would definitely advise against the vet visit here...
Just my experience. :)
We talked a bit about this and he doesn't want to touch her unless necessary. He is visiting my place.
It sounds more like observation.
I'm not to worried as I found him through the local reptile rescue and their affiliates.
I'm not concerned on the cost of the visit either. To echo old adage, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
Concern is always welcome.
We talked a bit about this and he doesn't want to touch her unless necessary. He is visiting my place.
It sounds more like observation.
I'm not to worried as I found him through the local reptile rescue and their affiliates.
I'm not concerned on the cost of the visit either. To echo old adage, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
Concern is always welcome.
Nothing wrong with being concerned and as time goes on and you become more experienced you'll learn when it's really warranted. That all sounds good, actually.
Not much has changed, except a new kind of behavior starting last night and now.
She is in my office and I am at the computer, the light somewhat going into her cage. It being off now. While I am fairly sure it is just her "periscoping" I turn around to see her creeping on me from time to time, or at least in my direction. Don't think I should make anything of it, but at least it is a new show in addition to the ledge climbing and balancing attempts.
SerpentineDream
06-25-16, 12:30 AM
Ophelia stalks me when she is hungry. She will wait behind her hide, watching me until I come within what she deems striking range. Then she flings herself at the glass with her mouth open (fun fact, their gums are black) and tries to swallow me. You have to admire her optimism.
She might be curious about you. Or hungry. Or both. :D
I notice that about her mouth. She was yawning the other day and it wasn't your standard pink.
Tomorrow she will be getting food. A fuzzy as previously suggested. We will see how well this plays out.
But I recall you mentioning your Woma striking at the glass. You haven't found some way to calm her down? I would think after repeated attempts to feed on you some injury would form.
SerpentineDream
06-25-16, 04:54 PM
We're doing tap training and that certainly does help. But she still sees opportunity when it's close to feeding time and she thinks I'm easy prey within easy reach. She has never hurt herself. She throws herself at the glass and gapes her mouth against it, trying to swallow. Thus far she hasn't damaged her face, though sometimes I do wonder how. When it's feeding day I avoid her until I'm actually bringing food. When she's full she regards me with more innocent curiosity and can be taken out (with a hook) without taking shots at me. Then she's a joy to handle. :D
The feeding response of womas is legendary. Yours may be mellower than mine. Keep her well fed, work on tap training and you'll be a step ahead.
Albert Clark
06-25-16, 07:11 PM
Another thing to consider is that swallowing is a reflex and complicated action for all snakes. Any writhing and pushing is all part of the peristaltic motions involved in the reflex of swallowing.
I warmed up a fuzzy for her and left it on a log. She came back at it twice and did nothing with it. It may be too big for her in that she was putting her face all over it, but went away. The lights were also on.
It is sitting there for a little bit, but I will consider removing it.
Picture attached for size comparison.
Thoughts now?
Only has had two pinkies in her from Sunday and supposedly that is her first meal.
SerpentineDream
06-26-16, 08:54 PM
How warm was the fuzzy? If it was too hot or too cold (i.e., frozen inside) that could be it. I'd consider that first. Leave her alone with the fuzzy for a while. Maybe turn the lights off.
I did that. It was defrosted for an hour (in bag, until pliable). Then I hit it with the the hair dryer for extra heat.
After the third attempt to come at it, she started do the rubbing on her face once more. Kind of makes me think she wanted to eat it, but thought it was too big. Just my thought.
SerpentineDream
06-27-16, 04:40 AM
Hmmm. I guess try feeding 2 pinks and see if she takes them? If she does you know she was intimidated by the size of the fuzzy. In that case, she loses her fearsome predator woma card. :D
I was thinking about that. I have 3 or 4 pinkies left, do I will defrost some of those.
I am certain she will take them as she did the last two AND those were room temp. No additional heating.
Could it be possible she is used to not opening her jaw and I sort of conditioned her not to do that to eat?
I will recheck husbandry once home, but it hasn't changed.
High end: 90
Low end 79
Hot spot: 93 ish
Humidity: can't recall. Might have been 35 last I checked.
That meal is not too big for the woma. Comparing it to the body thickness it looks right on...but sometimes they can be intimidated by larger meals for sure.
The current plan looks like this:
Give her a couple pinks tonight.
Next week offer another fuzzy, backing out to a couple pinks.
Any thoughts on the number of pinkies? I was thinking about composting the nutritional content on the two packages, but I recall song it mentioned that due to fur and the like it won't be as nutritious.
Fuzzies would have more calcium and protein when compared to a pinkie so they are actually more nutritious. 2 pinkies is a bit larger of a meal as well when compared to one fuzzie, but see what happens. :)
Alright then. Just another 2.
Update around 10 hours or so.
She took her sweet time looking around, but she ate the two pinkies eventually.
I know the light is out, but should't she be heading over to the hot spot instead of leisurely doing another two laps?
SerpentineDream
06-28-16, 05:52 AM
Probably patrolling for more pinkies. I wouldn't worry.
You might try another fuzzy after a couple of feedings and see if she feels confident enough to take it.
Derek Roddy
06-28-16, 06:24 AM
Everything you're discribing is perfectly normal woma behavior.
Cheers
D
She took her sweet time looking around, but she ate the two pinkies eventually.
I know the light is out, but should't she be heading over to the hot spot instead of leisurely doing another two laps?
Nope. Cruising for more food. They'll use the hot spot when they need to. They know those kinds of needs much more than we do and have been doing fine in the wild thermoregularing without human intervention for many years. Offer the proper gradient and they'll do their thing, it's just that easy. Literally everything you've described so far sounds totally normal. Keep doing your best to relax a bit and not stress so much with this little one, do youself a favour. :)
Understood. Perhaps I am expecting a bit more from her than I should.
So far I done my best to be out of her sight and limit my interaction to be dropping to food in and water changing.
As SerpentineDream has suggested, I will consider another fuzzy attempt in the future, backing out to pinkies if not taken.
And I'll stop worrying that the snake is acting like a snake. Eventually. =)
Once again, thank you all for the input.
Behavior-wise, she appears to be getting bolder. More "day-light" activity. (Laying in open, moving in light, following activity) Doesn't seem concerned when I put my face near the glass. Comes to see. Still have not touched her.
The one concern I have now is that I recently just saw this change: she appears to have a crease going along her side. Pictures attached.
Internet search says:
+Dehydration: She has plenty of water available.
+Shedding: She has been doing rubbing on her cage objects, notably the log hides she's taken a liking to.
+Mites: Have not yet touched her...
+Malnutrition: As previously mentioned, she has only had two meals of 2 pinkies and hatched May 12 (1.5 months old/ 49 days)
The vet is coming Sunday at noon and I know I said I would chill, but I would like some more input.
SerpentineDream
07-01-16, 09:29 PM
She looks thin to my eye. Maybe more frequent feedings if you can't convince her to tackle fuzzies yet, and/or add a third pinky.
I have a fuzzy in there now, just put in fresh to be left in over night.
If untouched by morning I will remove it and go for 3 pinkies.
After shutting everything down in the office, she had grabbed and thrown half a coil around it. I scampered out as not to interfere.
This morning, no fuzzy or snake for that matter. Typically means she is in the hot hide.
SerpentineDream
07-02-16, 01:58 PM
Woo hoo! Success!
You might find that while she's rapidly growing, feeding her twice a week is better than once. And when she's ready, rats will fill her up better than mice. Rat pinkies are roughly the size of hopper mice (which is just the next step up from what she's eatng now). By the time she's grown she'll be eating rats anyway so it can't hurt to get her used to them early on IMO. Ophelia's only a few months older than your girl and is gleefully pounding 2 rat fuzzies a week.
Well, if she is just able to handle the fuzzy now, would it make sense to move towards a fuzzy every 5 days? Or were you thinking closer to 4 days?
And now that I think of it, this is her 3rd meal over the 2 weeks I've had her; where is the poop?
SerpentineDream
07-02-16, 08:00 PM
I feed every Wednesday and Sunday just so I don't lose track. So sometimes she goes 4 days, sometimes only 3. She's always ready for dinner though. If you're not forgetful like me every 4 days would be great. I started out feeding mine weekly but it wasn't enough to keep her from going berserk every time she saw me. She's a lot happier with the twice weekly schedule and is growing like a weed.
I wouldn't worry about the poo yet. Her digestive tract is just getting moving after never having had anything in it. And I've noticed that mine seems to poop less often than my other snakes in general. She saves it up and then leaves a huge pile, usually where I have to hunt for it.
So, vet visit today. Guy comes out in a refurbished ambulance. Even found Friday's fuzzy on the sonogram.
Full work up. No issues with the snake. Far more docile than he was expecting her to act. Suggests a bump in the temps and consider UV lights, but that being a minimal, not a required.
Had a good chat about oddball varieties of other snakes, the commons, and the worst things he's seen. Fortunately, I am far from that.
And wrapped it up with a few handling tips, me being beginner and all and a poop sample bag.
So yeah. No more reason to worry. At least for a week or two.
Glad everything went well...I knew it would! NOW hopefully you can relax and enjoy your beautiful woma! :)
Indeed. However, the handling comes next, despite her being "docile for a baby Woma".
I will consider trying to handle her tomorrow or the day after. Seems to be acting normal even last night on her typical patrol, but perhaps let her have a bit more just in case.
What was the maximum for handling considered? Every other day excluding the day after feeding?
Derek Roddy
07-05-16, 10:18 AM
I honestly wouldn't handling at all until it's feeding patterns have become consistent. Maybe after a solid 6 or 8 meals with no issues, then start to give it a go.
D
3-4 meals should have been given at the breeder's before the sale, and another 3-4 meals at your place while acclimating, so I am 100% with Derek on this one. Hands off for another few feedings. No sense in stressing your woma out before it's on a good feeding regimen.
Ok. I thought she handled the visit pretty well, but I am happy to abstain for a while still.
Another 4 feedings at minimum.
On a more amusing note, she has figured out which way the glass doors are pushed to be opened.
Edit: Back to the feeding before sale.
I do understand that no risk should have been taken. However, the guy did suggest live pinkies to start. How bad do you(anyone) rate this advice? My understanding is that once on, it is hard to get them off. It also sounded like this may have been the source of refusal for the past month.
For further discussion.
SerpentineDream
07-06-16, 01:54 AM
Since she's taking frozen/thawed now, I would not go backwards and feed her live. Also I don't understand why the breeder wouldn't first offer his own womas F/T to see if they took it before feeding live. Most snakes prefer live once they've been offered it, and it sure can be hard to switch them. I have 3 newbie ball pythons that were started on live and it's been frustrating to say the least trying to convince them that F/T is yummy. For numerous reasons including safety and the humane standpoint, F/T is preferable to live. Prey that has been deep-frozen is also less likely to carry parasites. So if she's chowing down on thawed fuzzies, I would leave well enough alone. This is the same breeder that sold you a snake that had never eaten, so maybe take his advice with a grain of salt.
Do you have a way to secure the doors on your cage so she can't push them open?
Of course. Hands off still.
Yep. Came with locks. The doors are pretty heavy though, but given enough time she might be able to move them.
AP-T20 with Glass Doors and Locks
Reflecting back:
She was weighed at 41 oz/ grams. Can't recall which.
Vet said the lines/ creases I mentioned were lack of muscle mass. Happens in younger snakes. Will disappear.
And here she is breaking down a log fuzzy on the hot spot. (All I do is drop it on the log and she downs it.)
So, here's my concern:
I have looked for poop and found none.
Above is meal number 4.
How long until this becomes a concern?
Last I saw of her was her was after fourth meal on Monday in the above picture. I believe she is still in the hide pictures as I can see into all the other hides and not there. Cage has not been opened since Sunday when fed.
Could she have figured out by now that she only gets food once a week and I am only going to see her on Sunday until I can handle her? That's fine as long as she is.
Husbandry:
Temps:
Low: 80
High: 90
HotSpot: 93
Humidity:
~43%
Meals (Sundays):
2 Pinkies
2 Pinkies
1 Fuzzy
1 Fuzzy
Interaction:
None
SerpentineDream
07-16-16, 01:01 PM
They do like to spend a lot of time hiding, but she might also be in shed. When they are getting ready to shed they retreat to their safe spot and generally don't come out until they are ready to slough their skin.
Got back from getting some stuff for a humid hide. Did not even consider it until asking the shop owner. (If needed)
It just seems like a sudden change. For the past month, every night she would come out around 8pm and increasingly earlier to come out and patrol the cage. (Light out at 8:30pm)
Still will make the offer of a fuzzy tomorrow, but I will probably rub it on the entrance and put it on top, leaving a scent trail.
Got back from getting some stuff for a humid hide. Did not even consider it until asking the shop owner. (If needed)
It just seems like a sudden change. For the past month, every night she would come out around 8pm and increasingly earlier to come out and patrol the cage. (Light out at 8:30pm)
Still will make the offer of a fuzzy tomorrow, but I will probably rub it on the entrance and put it on top, leaving a scent trail.
No success. Found it this morning and flushed it. I will try again next Sunday.
Here's hoping it is just shedding.
They do like to spend a lot of time hiding, but she might also be in shed. When they are getting ready to shed they retreat to their safe spot and generally don't come out until they are ready to slough their skin.
I think she may be getting ready to shed now. She finally came out and is rubbing on everything face first.
She honestly doesn't look that dull to me, but I suppose once the shed comes off I will see the difference.
Make sure the humidity is good if she's shedding. Even though you have a humid hide you can still give her enclosure a light misting to help the shed come off without any issues.
I will. I have a spray bottle and whatever the spongy stuff was for the hide ready.
However, she already figured out the water dish and dipped into that and went back to rubbing.
I got curious.
I waited until she was on the other side.
I saw:
A poop
A urate
And a single piece of shed skin :cool:
I suppose she is in good health.
EL Ziggy
07-22-16, 08:14 PM
Those are good signs REM.
Those are good signs REM.
Yep. I am aware. Just still aware that something bad still has the opportunity to occur.
All good stuff going on there.
Things have gone well so far. Tonight marks the 6th meal she has had with me, so come Wednesday I will handle her for the first time.
I got gloves to help prevent me from getting too jumpy, but honestly I have never seen her strike at me. Even the vet was surprised not to see any defensive strikes from her.
Looking to only do a minute.
Thoughts?
I did hold her yesterday for a minute no issues. She stood there. I stood there. And then I let her slither off into her hide. No hurry to do so.
Fast forward to today, she decided she wanted to watch me give me water. Up close.
They aren't usually this easy going, are they?
EL Ziggy
07-28-16, 06:51 PM
As your snake acclimates and grows she should chill out more and more. I believe most snakes are pretty docile once they realize they're in no danger. A few are natural spitfires and always will be. :)
toddnbecka
07-29-16, 12:23 AM
Just biding her time until she gets comfortable enough to bite and see how you taste, lol.
Just biding her time until she gets comfortable enough to bite and see how you taste, lol.
That thought was in the back of my head. However, she did not take the chance today.
I did something a little different.
I gave her a light rub with the hook, but didn't try to take her out; I let her try to come out. She made her way over, looking for the glass and looked a bit before coming out to inspect the glove. I did lift her back half and she obliged. Sat there a minute before I put her back down.
Now she is wondering why the glass door is back.
macandchz
07-30-16, 11:36 AM
rem -that shed picture looked perfect to me. sounds like everything is going well. just relax and enjoy your snake.
SerpentineDream
07-30-16, 02:34 PM
Not all womas are black holes with tails. You might have a naturally docile animal who doesn't regard you as tonight's special. Tap training is still a good idea, but I wouldn't be alarmed that your snake *isn't* taking shots at you... tasty human. :P
I will mention this has been with gloves on. I do just want to offer her my hand after tapping her to see what happens. Sooner or later, when she does bite I prefer it be in a controlled situation. I kind of expect her to sample and test a finger.
"Wrong kind of pinkie..."
Another question. I bought this piece of root a while back. It is something like sand-blasted, sanitized rosewood. I can't remember what it was called.
Width: 16"
Length: 24"
Height: 12"
But I am thinking about putting this in after I clean the cage next on the cool side to keep it away from the panel. She has been climbing a lot, but only in the space between the inner border and the glass door by expanding.
Any reason I shouldn't put this in there?
SerpentineDream
08-01-16, 06:47 PM
Go for it. Feel it first for any sharp ends, and sand them down if you find any. Make sure it's stable and won't tip over. She might enjoy having something to climb on. Mine does.
Admiring the view....
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r669/Serpentine_Dream/Mobile%20Uploads/20160316_174732_006_01_zps1x0gauug.jpg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/Serpentine_Dream/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160316_174732_006_01_zps1x0gauug.jpg.html)
http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r669/Serpentine_Dream/Mobile%20Uploads/20160316_174728_012_01_zpsbun4j4dt.jpg (http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/Serpentine_Dream/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160316_174728_012_01_zpsbun4j4dt.jpg.html)
It has already been rounded down quite a bit. I believe the sand blasting bit they mentioned.
That and it can support my weight/ 190lbs.
If that's all to be concerned about, in it goes after next cleaning.
How big and old is Ophelia?
SerpentineDream
08-01-16, 07:16 PM
She's now about 9 or 10 months old, 2.5 feet and not quite as big around as a slim garden hose. She was about 4 or 5 months old in that picture and had just come home. She's moved up from hopper mice when she first arrived to rat fuzzies so she's grown quite a bit.
I held her without gloves today.
No intention to bite made.
Only wanted to go back in the cage.
After playing the role of snake escalator for a minute, she got that wish and went back to her routine patrol of the cage perimeter.
Well. I grew a pair today.
Turns out, Cuddles likes selfies.
Anthropomorphizing, yes, but she kept following the phone around when I had it in the reverse/ selfie camera mode.
I cleaned her cage today. On return back during her inspection, I looked close on her face and it appears that the scales around her snout are dulled, maybe scratched. She has been pushing on the glass since taking her out for the first time, but I am only seeing this now after putting her back in.
I know I can use Neosporin w/o the pain relief.
Husbandry hasn't changed. 80-90 w/ 95 hot spot. 40%~ humidity.
I am just going to wait for the time being, but if she does meet me at the glass again, I'll get a picture to post.
Disregard previous post. She had fuzz on her face.
Still is getting out in the open earlier and earlier except after a meal.
I have been taking her out regularly giving time for her to digest after eating and only for a short time.
A few things to note:
She is still pretty twitchy. She twitches a little when I rub her with the hook and pick her up by hand, but if she boops something or I move to pick something up -> jump.
After I am done, I put her back in down gently after which she turns on me and goes into a defensive pose. And yes, this is after she has her head turned towards me while I am putting her down...
She has not tried to strike yet, either.
I have a feeling that all I am going to hear is repetition will make this nervousness go away.
toddnbecka
08-09-16, 11:51 PM
Patience grasshopper, trust is learned slowly, lol.
I get that, but still. "I just put you down. What is your deal?"
New behavior: While I am in the room with the lights off, she waits outside, with her head on one of the logs. I drop food on those logs for her to find. Amusing to me.
Another update.
She does not appear as skinny anymore.
She decided to burrow under her substrate and newspaper. (First to me at least.)
I went in to try and handle her a bit, but not in any of her hides. I spent 15 minutes looking in the corners and clutter of my office to see what you see in one of the pictures...
Meanwhile, because I know SerpentineDream commented on her being a bit skinny, I do have a picture that offers some profile. Just a bit over 3 months old now.
Edit:
I was just thinking about what was said about hot spots on another topic, and I really don't recall her using hers at all. I know for certain it is the highest temp spot in the cage, but I'd figure she would use it after eating. Granted, I am gone from 6-4:30, but even days at home, not to be seen until 5pm. Thoughts?
Captain837
08-19-16, 06:30 PM
Our three woma babies are in cages that have hot spots at about 93, cold spots about 80. All three spend most of their time in places that are about 83-85. They are a little flighty as well. I think it goes with being little guys as they probably have a lot of predators at that size. Be patient and gentle and she will learn you are not a threat.
Well, that's the thing. She is very docile. When the vet came over, he was surprised how well she handled everything. No striking and very few defensive postures from her. And when I reach to grab her, she looks back and tests my hand and not much recoil from touching.
Still sensitive to her head when she pokes at things. At least while she is out.
She seems like a bit chill compared to the average Woma (hatchling?/juvenile?), but this is compared to what little I know and what others tell me.
Honestly, I think I should have been bit by now.
Sidenote:
Captain: What age/ size are they? I don't think you mentioned that yet. The third picture in your thread, though, seems comparable to Cuddles.
Captain837
08-19-16, 07:31 PM
Ours are only a couple months old. When I say they are flighty, it's a relative statement. My 8 and 10 year old daughters can handle them. They are a little skittish when taken out of the cage but once in your hands they chill out pretty quick. They also tend to greet you at their door when they see movement unlike our bp's that retreat at the sign of movement.
Captain837
08-19-16, 07:41 PM
For a size reference, this is my 8 year old daughter holding one of the females. We are not handling the because since he has not eaten for us yet. The 2 females are voracious feeders and ate the day they came in.
Not sure if it is coincidence or a gender thing. I don't recall this years ago when I was in the hobby but both of our males (BP and now woma) took longer to adjust to their new environments than the females did.
Greeting you at the door? She does not do this for me. I am curious if this has to do with how you feed them.
From the beginning I have just dropped food on a log in the cage from the opposite of her and she took care of it. I did my best to ensure I wasn't related to the food.
Captain837
08-20-16, 10:04 AM
I don't think it is any training on my part as we have only had them for 2 weeks at this point. I would assume it is the way their instincts have them wired. I believe they are active hunters rather than ambush predators. As such I would expect them to be much more active and alert to any movement in the room. It is what makes them appear very inquisitive and is a very distinct difference in behavior from what we are used to with our BP's.
With that said, you can learn a lot about your shakes behavior by studying where they come from, what they eat and what eats them. Often times it will make a great deal of sense out of seemingly odd behavior. I used this technique many years ago when I worked for a mom and pop pet shop handling exotic reptiles to get them manageable so they could be sold as pets. You would be surprised how some species get bad wraps for being bitey and aggressive when it is nothing more than a misunderstanding of what the snake is programmed to do and why. Simply put, figure out why it does what it does and you can learn to work around it. People tend to give these creatures too much credit for being intelligent and they make assumptions to motives behind actions when in the end the snake is just doing what it was wired to to. Figure this out and they become very predictable.
My understanding the idea around tap training is that you are letting them know that you are not food when you come into the cage. I am guessing the guy I was subbed to was using the same concept when he first described just dropping the food in.
I am not trying to pedestalize the Woma, but it might be something it has just come to expect. Perhaps who you got yours from gave them food off tongs.
All just theories, but then I have to ask openly for other theories. Including faults in my own husbandry.
*Note: The guy on youtube aforementioned has breeding adults and they appear to take the opportunity to come out. Comfortable, I suppose.
Captain837
08-20-16, 07:01 PM
I agree, it's always a good idea to get others opinions. It sounds like your husbandry is good. I am not sure how ours were fed.
Cuddles decided she would sit still for me.
Almost 15 grams gained. I know it is the right direction considering her age, but nothing more.
Also, this is on a fuzzy every Sunday.
Thoughts?
That's good to see he's progressing nicely for you.
Captain837
08-24-16, 07:30 PM
Looking good!
After speaking to the breeder we got ours from he wanted us feeding hoppers to ours. The male had not eaten yet (refused pinkies the last 2 weeks) so I was a bit skeptical but I tried a trick that worked on our male bp when he was new. I placed the fresh killed hopper in the hide with him, came back 20 min later and he has coiled it, drug it out of his den and began eating it. Score...
Funny note, reading back over your first few posts on this threat, our male is acting exactly like yours did on his first feeding. Rubbed his head all over the place for about 15 min after eating. He also has those small wrinkles on his sides that yours had. Neither of the females have them or rub like that. Glad I read your post or I would have been more concerned so thanks for sharing. None of them are using their hot spots either. After eating they went back to their usual spots in the 83-85 deg range.
Ok. She seems to hide out under the hotspot or in the 87 degree area. To each their own.
I hadn't seen her for a while so I assumed she was in shed. Supposed to be fed today. Prepped some sphagnum moss for her to put in her hide and she is really deep in blue and "crinkly". Let her sniff the moss a bit before placing her on top of it and the hide back over.
Now, she is churning inside her hide. Hasn't come out yet, but still moving...
Edit:
Captain. I forgot to ask; do your Womas tend to make paths along the edges of the cage? Cuddles seems to enforce that there is no substrate alongside the cage. I have even put toilet paper rolls in place and found them moved over a ways.
Captain837
08-28-16, 01:26 PM
Yes, ours seem to blaze trails all over their enclosures including the edges.
Ok. Seemed kind of odd. Was thinking about actually carving some grooves in the substrate for her, but I suppose she will create them as necessary.
Just like she decided to push out all the sphagnum moss. Appears that is something she doesn't like.
At least she did eat for me.
Onto that topic: fuzzy mice to rat pinks. 1 to 1.5 the thickest point in her body. I think while I am shopping for her next meal I will pick one rat fuzzy just for comparison, but I think she is a ways from that.
Captain837
08-28-16, 11:28 PM
Yes, ours seemed to be stretching to eat mouse hoppers but the breeder insisted that is what they were on. We will probably try to make the jump to rat fuzzies as soon as they can take them. I really do not want to run the risk of ending up with a mouser.
As far as substrate goes, I opted to try the crushed walnut shell bedding. I was hesitant at first because of it's inability to hold humidity but everything I have read says the Womas actually do better with less humidity than more. I also know they love to burrow and I see them do exactly that from time to time. As long as they have descent sheds I will probably stick with it. Our BP's get shredded aspen due to humidity requirements. We live in Arizona so ambient is 35-40% on a good day. I will note that I have misted the womas cages on occasion and they come right out of their hides to see what is going on. The do not retreat from the water either. I will not be doing this too often as I have hear they are prone to skin issues if they get too much moisture.
Have not heard of that regarding the humidity issues. I just know to keep in the 40% range. I have considered boosting it a bit when in shed like she appears to be now, but I have put that off for now.
She currently is on aspen now and does some burrowing. I have a little less than the 4 cubic feet I started with so likely a while before I ever consider the crushed walnut bedding. Who do you use? If you have a bulk suggestion for me to bookmark, I'd be eager to try a smaller sample when considering.
Edit: While searching, I found a bulk bag for crushed walnut litter for birds. Not sure if that is reason not to consider for snake substrate. Walnut Bedding 25 Lb Central - Kaytee Products, Inc at PupDaddy.com (http://www.pupdaddy.com/central-kaytee-products-inc-walnut-bedding-25-lb-3002812.html?utm_campaign=google&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&gclid=CLnIrreK7c4CFQiJaQodYr8EqA)
How long do yours take to shed? It is going on a week.
Captain837
08-31-16, 08:22 PM
I just bought a bag of the stuff from pets mart while getting food for our dogs. Not really sure I should recommend it as there seems to be a hot debate over injestion of it causing intestinal blockage. I am not concerned enough to to remove it but I may switch to shredded aspen when the cages need cleaning.
Last night while eating her f/t hopper, she flipped it in the water dish then onto the substrate resulting in a big mouth full of bedding with her food. It did not seem to bother her much and initially I figured the same if not worse happens in the wild with dirt but I chose to do some googling and as usual it makes the inner hypochondriac come out. Not worried enough to take her to the vet as she seems fine but I probably will remove the water dish when feeding in the future.
On a better note, all 3 took f/t hoppers from me for the first time. The two girls were very enthusiastic about it. The male required me to put it in his hide so he could eat in peace.
Ours have not shed yet. They are going on 4 weeks with us now I believe. Not sure how frequently they should be doing so at this age but it should be happening soon I suppose. I will report when they do.
For me it was about 6 weeks after I got her.
As for this current case, I just found her shed skin, so about a week to shed from going blue.
So hopper size. How does that compare to the "Small Mouse" from Artice Mice?
I bought one just for comparison and it looks huge compared to the fuzzy.
Are yours really putting that down every week?
To add, I did a rough measure of her length. She is nearing 24"/ 2 feet.
Captain837
09-05-16, 06:15 PM
Hopper mice are between a pinky and a small mouse. I did just get an order of pinky rats that seem about the same size as hopper mice except their heads are bigger.
If that is the case, I am going to have to ask my reptile shop about them. I know they breed mice. Maybe rats too. We'll see tomorrow I guess.
I finally tried out the SerpWidget measure. Almost at 2ft. (If I did this right)
I took a look into her cage while dark today. Nothing seemed unusual until I shined the light directly on her. It appears that there is one mark of sorts near the neck and sections of scales that do not reflect back. I tried to get a picture of the mark on her neck area, but I can't get any of the odd patches. Was not willing to cooperate with me much.
What am I looking at? Precautions? Overreacting?
Captain837
09-07-16, 09:27 PM
Well I attempted feeding yesterday. After thawing the rat pinkies I noticed all 3 were in blue. Fortunately 2 of the 3 still ate. The third took the pinkie and constricted it but dropped it and went back in her hide, likely due to commotion in the room while I was feeding other snakes.
As for the skin issue, I would not worry too much about it. Let him she'd again and see if it goes away on its own.
Let him she'd again and see if it goes away on its own.
It is a she. :D
But she did just shed so that is part of the concern. Maybe some require multiple layers of repair.
Captain837
09-08-16, 03:00 PM
Sorry about that. I also noticed my phones auto correct has struck again.
Honestly as long as the scales are intact and not discolored, I would not worry too much about it. Our bp's have occasionally gotten what appeared to be a small dry patch here and there and they always seem to resolve themselves.
New behavior:
On occasion (2 times non-consecutive prior til tonight), she decides to strike her food rather than just pick it up and eat it. She knows it is dead as she poked at it and I assume she didn't think it was going to run away, but is there some reason for this?
Captain837
09-11-16, 08:50 PM
Not sure about that one. Our 2 females come right at it and strike taking it off the tongs. The male requires you to place the f/t rat pup in his hide with him.
On another note, all 3 shed yesterday. 1 had a pretty good shed with just a small piece on her face and eye cap. The other female was a bit of a mess and required a little soak to get cleaned up. The male had not started yet so I soaked him for about 10 min then placed him in his cage and gave it a good misting. Came back an hour later and he had done it and it all came off in one piece. Not sure the cause of the poor shed on the one female. Husbandry is identical for all 3.
Captain837
09-13-16, 07:50 PM
Correction, fed all 3 yesterday. As usual the two females came out to see what was going on and hammered their rat pinks. The male (who usually is very shy and requires you to leave his food in his hide) came out as well and hammered his rat pink. None of the 3 waited for it to hit the ground. They took the pinks off the tongs.
Derek Roddy
09-17-16, 09:00 AM
I took a look into her cage while dark today. Nothing seemed unusual until I shined the light directly on her. It appears that there is one mark of sorts near the neck and sections of scales that do not reflect back. I tried to get a picture of the mark on her neck area, but I can't get any of the odd patches. Was not willing to cooperate with me much.
What am I looking at? Precautions? Overreacting?
from burrowing. As she grows up you'll find more and more that she will beat herself up burrowing under stuff, etc. They peel scales, etc.....nothing to be concerned about.
D
I see. Thank you.
Another two topics:
1: Shall I attempt to see if a rat pink is in her interest next Sunday?
2: Her behavior is very reclusive. Gets more defensive. Spends most of her time under the newspaper, under the bedding, and under the hot hide. Nothing has changed in husbandry.
Captain837
09-19-16, 08:34 PM
I would try to get her on rat pinks as soon as possible. I would not want to risk ending up with a woma that only eats mice.
As far as her being reclusive I don't know what to tell you. When we first got ours they were nocturnal mostly. During the day they would sit in their hides with just their heads poking out. But even back then if they saw the slightest movement in the room they would come out to investigate. Lately they seem to be more diurnal. They are freely roaming about their cage during the day. They still come out occasionally during the evening. Maybe it is just an individual personality thing?
I will say I have now been bitten twice by our female Milo. Not a defensive bite either. Both times I reached in and picked her up with no fight, no running and no hissing. She did not strike either. She just casually turned her head and grabbed my finger and proceeded to wrap it like it was dinner. My hands had been washed and I had not been handling food either. To get her off i simply unwrapped her by the tail with my free hand. As soon as she realized she could not eat my hand she just as casually ley go and went back to her typical chill behavior. At her size it is not an issue but I can now see why some people tap train them as adults. That scenario would have been quite painful if she was 6' long.
Yeah. Last Friday I took her out and let her sit on the desk a bit and look around, poking at things. I look at the time and time to go back in the cage.
I give a light tap on the desk, wait for to look at me, and move my hand near her below her head. Done it before. This time she gets in her defensive pose and takes a strike. Bounced off the back of my hand. No damage.
Got the hook. Didn't matter to her. Still focused on me. Hook between her head and my hand and grabbed her back end and put her back.
The casual biting I have seen on youtube. They start rubbing then all of a sudden "chomp". Odd balls.
SerpentineDream
09-24-16, 05:03 PM
I agree with getting her on rats as soon as you can. She'll need to eat them as an adult (unless you want to feed her half a dozen mice at a time) so best to get her used to them. Rats are also more nutritionally dense than mice and may help her feel full longer.
Mine also spends most of her time in her hide with her head poking out so she can see what's going on. If she sees activity such as people moving around the room she will come out to investigate.
Ophelia was very friendly when I first got her as a hatchling. I thought she would be puppy dog tame. As she got bigger--and hungrier--she began to view me as an all-you-can-eat buffet. I can take her out and she'll sit happily for a couple of minutes. Then she decides that it's time for a snack, and hey! There's a convenient, tasty hand! The human won't mind if she just takes a couple of fingers, right? Fortunately she moves slowly and deliberately, wrapping and slowly opening her mouth to swallow. This gives me enough time to see what she's up to and grab her neck before she can latch on. The second I let go she's back at it though.
Womas are intriguing, weird, beautiful and sometimes frustrating critters.
I do pick up a few pinky rats today from the reptile shop. Slightly larger than the fuzzies, with the head being the major contributor. One of them is larger than the other so I may not use that one given freshness and size constraints. Who knows.
My understanding on nutrition density is that it varies by age a bit. I do see what you mean on the increase. Not discounting what you said. Just reflecting on the change over time.
Rodent Pro Nutrional Facts (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)
Mouse 44.2% protein Juvenile, 3-10 g
Rat 57.9% protein Neonatal, <10 g
Yeah, only was looking at the protein part, but thinking about what would help her development.
Will report back once I offer to see if she cares for the first rat pink tonight.
We have success. Downed a rat pinkie without scenting.
Tsubaki
09-27-16, 01:06 AM
Congrats! Always nice when they decide to eat :D
Been a couple weeks on pinky rats. She will #3 tonight in a bit.
However, I am a bit concerned over her back end. Looking kind of big/inflated and not finding any poop for a couple weeks. She has moved to her cool side at 80 degrees. Still lively when I take her out and when I put her back in and she doesn't realize who I am seconds later, feinting in her S shape. Nothing new there.
Do you guys see anything? I'm fine if that just looks like poop, but I just want to make sure it is not fat.
Derek Roddy
10-10-16, 10:17 AM
Looks ok. Maybe take her outside into the grass and some sunshine. Usually takes about 7 to 10 minutes and she'll poop if she needs too.
Cheers,
D
Tsubaki
10-11-16, 02:41 AM
Looks like poop to me, a soak could possibly help as well.
Thanks for the tips.
It is getting a bit cold up here. And the neighbors don't know about the noodle yet. I'd like to keep it that way.
She also ate Sunday and I generally leave her until Wednesday night or Thursday before messing with her. She changes hides when digested it seems, though not always.
I agree, it looks like a poop filled sausage butt to me. A warm water soak in the tin could definitely help move things along and add some extra hydration.
Her mid section doesn't appear to have slimmed to the norm yet so I will look at giving her a soak tomorrow and buy a suitable container today.
She has water 24/7 and always drinks right after being handled. I guess partly me stirring her up causing her to look around.
toddnbecka
10-13-16, 12:13 AM
I've noticed that my pair of thayeri kings always have that same sausage butt, seems like they poop much less often than they eat.
Didn't even get the chance to soak her. Found poop and urate yesterday morning when checking in.
Another item I wanted to bring to you guys, she has become a bit cage defensive.
However, this is only after handling her and stirring her up, I suppose.
Today I took her out to get her moving and check her out and when I put her back I made sure she was facing my direction.
Still, with full knowledge of me in front of her, she got defensive when I slowly reached for the water bowl to clean and refill. When I came back I was still slow then. Yet she felt it was necessary to get in an S shape and start "bouncing" towards me.
Am I expecting too much from her, aren't I?
Also, her cage is 8 inches off the floor; is my height the cause for scaring her?
Derek Roddy
10-21-16, 07:45 AM
All natural behavior for a woman python.
D
All natural behavior for a woman python.
Was this a typo?:)
My understanding is that as they get bigger they have less to freak out about. I am hoping this is the case.
Captain837
10-21-16, 04:14 PM
As babies they have more natural predators so by nature they are more defensive and flighty.
Yeah, I have heard that and is pretty much the basis for my thought.
But still, something has to imprint on her eventually that I am not a predator.
Captain837
10-21-16, 05:47 PM
Not sure if this is exactly how it works but this has been my observation. Over time the snake will associate your smell with what ever experience is has with you. As long as you are never a threat she should eventually calm down. I say should because they all have their own personality, some mellow out rather quickly, some take a while and some never truly trust anything and simply tolerate interactions and can never be 100% trusted. Combine that with the individual feeding responses (which can be misinterpreted as agression) and you end up with a very wide range of possibilities when it comes to attitude.
With all that said, for us to interprete or put meaning to your snakes behavior is nothing but a shot in the dark. My suggestion is just be patient and calm with her. Let her adjust at her pace and be ok with it. As long as she is eating get and shedding normally she is healthy and that is about the most you should expect. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
Understood. I just wish I got more feedback.
Other news, she has been more docile and open to handling. I have gotten a bit ambitious in getting her to tone down a bit so I have been placing her on a low box and approaching her. Slightly repulsed, but she eventually seems to be getting that it is me. No defensive actions made.
Measured again. My first measurement was by eye, so not considering it.
Second was ~23". Third (today) is 23.75"
Considering trying a fuzzy rat on her. Any reason I shouldn't?
Above View (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144430832@N02/30167219183/in/dateposted-public/)
Derek Roddy
11-06-16, 01:39 PM
Most Womas are jumpy before maturity...and most calm down with age. No worries.
D
Still concerned over size though. Is this a typical rate for her age?
Also, I think only now she is working on her third shed in total. I thought at young age you would see one shed a month.
Derek Roddy
11-12-16, 06:04 PM
Shedding frequency depends on feeding rate....fed more, shed more....fed less, shed less.
That being said, Womas in the wild eat fairly frequently. I don't where the myth comes from that these animals "rarely eat in the wild" or that "they don't eat as often" as they are VERY successful hunters.
Womas have a fast metabolism and a good average for feeding them is small meals every 4 days or so, as opposed to a larger one in 7.
Cheers,
D
Hmm. I just assumed the standard, but I will change accordingly.
So her being able to handle a rat pinkie now, she should get one every four days for the time being?
Derek Roddy
11-13-16, 12:15 PM
Id move more with weaned/adult mice than pup rats. Pups/Pinks are loaded with milk and fatty proteins. Mice are much more lean and trim. Feed those until she grows up enough to take weaned rats. Food size appropriation for a woma shouldn't leave a bulge. Just enough to tell it has eaten.
Aspidities are really easy in the fact that if they're moving....they're looking for food. A lot of time keepers overfeed them by giving them large food items...as long as you're under feeding the size and offering the day after she starts looking for food again....you'll be golden.
D
A considerably change from the norm.
So something like hopper mice to re-start with and test for this behavior. Today is feeding day anyway. Though while in shed I have been able to leave food on her and it gets eaten.
One thing you mentioned, that they only come out to hunt. She really hasn't come out on her own. Is this an indication that I am overfeeding then?
Derek Roddy
11-15-16, 12:12 PM
One thing you mentioned, that they only come out to hunt. She really hasn't come out on her own. Is this an indication that I am overfeeding then?
Maybe, larger meals will take longer to digest (which their systems aren't really set up for that as they don't have access to large food items in the bush...and if it is a large item, has almost no fat...like dragons or skinks)
So, they will hide and digest until they're ready again.
Better for them to have small items so they're out looking in a few days....thats how they operate in the wild. Keeps em lean and active.
D
Just an update.
Front View (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144430832@N02/31393208852/in/dateposted-public/)
She has mellowed out quite a bit. The picture is her on top of her cage where she will go around, checking to see if she can drop herself off the edge safely.
For a while I have been setting her there and interacting with her (extending hand, pacing, slow but large movements) and she has gotten to the point where it doesn't phase unless surprised. Fortunately, she falls out of that once you gets fixated on the moving thing and "figures" it out (me).
More amusing, last night I walked in and found her in the "cobra pose" for the first time, looking at me. Did not allow for me to get a picture though.
Trollbie
12-10-16, 09:23 AM
She is adorable!!!!!
Pulled her out today from her hot side.
Thought I would give it a shot: No reaction to me petting her on the head. I was gentle of course, but still. =)
Captain837
12-24-16, 09:25 AM
Nice to see you are making progress with her. Two of ours are still really chill the third still wants to eat everything she sees (including the snake hook).
The hook? I always thought they would be put off by the cold metal, but apparently not. Though I do recall I once posted some news article about a woma who did swallow what looked like food tongs...
Captain837
12-24-16, 04:47 PM
Ya she grabs anything and everything that passes by her face. Not defensive strikes either. Bite and wraps. She is relentless.
Maybe, larger meals will take longer to digest (which their systems aren't really set up for that as they don't have access to large food items in the bush...and if it is a large item, has almost no fat...like dragons or skinks)
So, they will hide and digest until they're ready again.
Better for them to have small items so they're out looking in a few days....thats how they operate in the wild. Keeps em lean and active.
D
Back onto this discussion again.
I am looking at this. Reason being is that she is spending all her time in the cold hide (80 degrees or less (adding insulation)). Sounds like not enough food if she enjoys it there according to a few articles to conserve energy/ slow metabolism. I say enjoys as when I take her out, I put her back in a hot hide and she will always go to the far end into the.
I know she can take a fuzzy rat, but it takes a while. Sounds like the size down weaned.
I will make a point of looking at the weaned/ adult mice going back in to the store to refill them.
An updated picture of her body: Dec 29 2016 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/144430832@N02/31822485552/in/dateposted-public/)
Still looks like she has to me, except the creases are only prevalent in the first half of her body.
Update: As I finish this update, it appears that she took cue and holed up in a hot hide, but it looks like it is just for the sake of shedding (related?) as she is spinning round inside of it.
A new thing I changed with her cage while cleaning today.
I bought some Sani-chips earlier this month and today I stuffed the hides with a scoop or so.
I can see her moving stuff around in her hide, supposedly to nestle in.
I guess one could say she digs it. =P
Fresh shed found in cage this afternoon.
Took her out for inspection. Full of energy. Took a while to get her to get all of her and the ruler in the picture.
With use of SerpWidget's snake measuring, she sits at a bit more than 2ft 4in. 4 inches since the beginning of November.
GyGbeetle
01-23-17, 02:59 PM
I have a Woma and have done tons of research about these guys.
Face rubbing: they tend to do this when they have an itch, or when they reset their jaw. It's tiny, and they don't have heat vents like most pythons do. So this characteristic is not uncommon, nor is it an indication of anything severe. I had to give my woma oral meds, which we had to keep in the fridge. So she would nose rub for awhile.
Activity around shed: they are super hyper. Like you can't control them sort of hyper. And then they sleep during shed for the most part. And then hyper again.
They are avid eaters. They can get what seems to be aggression around food, but, unless handled improperly, will still remain relatively docile. Although I've heard from a few breeders that the males can get a little aggressive and bitey. Adults may not get more than a small or even medium sized rat.
Their butts look like one of those animal balloons. It doesn't always mean there's poop. Unfortunately. So it's misleading to look at their butt and think it's ready for poop. The younger ones will have a higher metabolism and will tend to poop about 1-2 days. But adults also have a good metabolism so they may poop on the same schedule. If they aren't pooping, check your husbandry. If she's new, she may be shy. Mine took over a week for the first poop, and it was while I was handling the. The extra movement outside of her enclosure worked wonders. She was just a little shy.
I hope any of this helps you. I didn't find enough research about them online, so a lot came from breeders and vets
GyGbeetle
01-24-17, 12:21 PM
Charlotte looking for food, 2 days after being fed a small rat. I don't know how old she is, but I suspect she's a yearling.
Charlotte looking for food, 2 days after being fed a small rat. I don't know how old she is, but I suspect she's a yearling.
Small rat? How small? As in a Fuzzy or Weaned?
For any comparative reference, the 28" mark is after nearly 9 months.
Another oddity in her behavior as of late is deciding she wants to sleep during the day outside of her hide. I recall this happening more once larger, but not at this size.
GyGbeetle
02-04-17, 10:57 PM
Small rat? How small? As in a Fuzzy or Weaned?
For any comparative reference, the 28" mark is after nearly 9 months.
With her girth, we feed her a regular small rat. A little bigger than a weaned, but not terribly fat. It leaves a bit of a lump, and she poops quite nicely (and on me) about 2 days later. I am pretty sure she's a yearling, not much bigger than 2 feet. And she also sleeps during the day and is very active at night. I have read they are nocturnal creatures. But you may want to confirm some with more woma experience (I saw Derek Roddy on this post, and I believe he's an expert when it comes to these Aussie babies).
Maybe she just doesn't like the name Cuddles (hehe). I don't have much more insight other than what I've researched and what I'm seeing in my own, so I hope it's helpful.
My 9 month length measurement may be wrong.
New Length: 32.5"
New Weight (sans poop): 175 grams
Blue Noodle
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/717/33068746411_57ce0df7f5_k.jpg
GyGbeetle
03-01-17, 05:40 PM
So I started feeding Charlotte (aka Char Char Binks) every 3-4 days, a small rat. Literally, 1-2 days after I feed her, she looks for more. Is that normal? I fed her yesterday, and she's looking again today.
When she shed, she was offline in her hide for like a whole week. And then I woke up one morning and she had completely shed, and was looking for food again.
According to a previous post by Derek Roddy, that would be the idea.
Something interesting happened tonight.
Gave her food and she struck and coiled.
Spent some time looking it over and decided that she would BITE HERSELF.
Midsection, not the tail, not a strike, just mistook herself for her food and clamped down.
I poked her with the stick to "reset" her and she got it down.
Why?...
GyGbeetle
04-10-17, 09:08 AM
Because woma's are big derps. My woma last night during feeding had some odd behaviour that I've never seen before in her. Then, afterwards, since I have some "play" items in her tank (an empty toilet paper roll and an empty paper towel roll), she went through her toilet paper roll, but because she had just eaten, got stuck midway through, backed out of it, and then decided she just made a mistake the first time, and tried it again. Got stuck again, backed out again, and my husband took the rolls out until her food lump was gone.
Trying to feed her, she kept going up and up and up the side of the enclosure, kept opening her mouth a little, closing it, opening it, closing it again, licked the rat a few times, then decided she wanted to eat it and bit down gently, coiled, and went back down to the ground. Normally she will strike and coil. Guess she forgot this time?
Like I said, woma's are big derps.
Something interesting happened tonight.
Gave her food and she struck and coiled.
Spent some time looking it over and decided that she would BITE HERSELF.
Midsection, not the tail, not a strike, just mistook herself for her food and clamped down.
I poked her with the stick to "reset" her and she got it down.
Why?...
Happens with lots of species. Always kind of funny to watch. :)
Captain837
04-10-17, 06:52 PM
One of our females tries to eat anything that comes in her cage. Snake hooks, hands, water bowls and yes sometimes she even forgets her own body is not food.
Open ended question:
I got her nearly 11 months ago @ 16" long.
She is currently 37" long.
Any estimates on "adult" length one can ball park?
Ok. Did not think she could do a rope (cable) climb. Good thing the hole is sealed.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4225/34726251786_ee1a444f4b_k.jpg
Guess I need to buy a hot glue gun tomorrow and make sure this does not happen.
Scubadiver59
05-19-17, 09:50 PM
My Corn does this all the time!
Ok. Did not think she could do a rope (cable) climb. Good thing the hole is sealed.
Guess I need to buy a hot glue gun tomorrow and make sure this does not happen.
New Behavior. At least to me.
This has happened several times so it cannot be coincidence.
On the hot side of the cage, there are two smaller hides that I do not think she can fit in any more. However, she will crawl through until her backside remains and poops inside of either one.
Has anyone seen this kind of behavior?
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