Tirel, Ghost Boa [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

bigsnakegirl785

06-02-16, 09:24 AM

This is one of my two new arrivals! She's a poss super ghost 66% het albino, born 5/27/15. I bought her from Dave Green at Green Constrictors. He was easy to work with and gave me several updates on her. There was a bit of a mix up on schedules when it came time to ship, causing me to wait an extra week, but there were no other delays and she got here safely. :)

Like Morzan, she came out of the bag swinging. Snapped at my face a couple of times, and eyed my hand if I made any movement, but I didn't get bit and she wasn't overly intent on murdering me. lol Slightly more laid back than Morzan.

She's a lot bigger than my other June 2015 girl Nymeria, already on small rats, roughly 3' long. I'm ordering a shipment of rodents here in a couple of weeks, since Nymeria is moving up and I need to get smalls for Bud, so for her first feeding she'll get a jumbo mouse but by her next feeding I should have the proper rats in. I'm thinking of giving her a weaned rat first before going straight to smalls since I like to feed a bit smaller, but I'll see how the rats look when they get here. She's definitely going to be fed every 2-3 weeks since she's a year and on the larger side of average, and I'll try her on a mouse next Thursday.

The other new arrival is an anery motley 66% het albino male, and he should be here Tuesday. The weather in Texas delayed his shipment, otherwise he'd be here with her.

https://67.media.tumblr.com/e738574183e25bb0feb7c63e0c5e5439/tumblr_o85gdx8XUs1sjttato3_1280.jpg

https://67.media.tumblr.com/46d6b8340dfca93c782412273bf03262/tumblr_o85gdx8XUs1sjttato4_1280.jpg

https://67.media.tumblr.com/76e7077026cd3152446b278fa267ada7/tumblr_o85gdx8XUs1sjttato1_1280.jpg

https://67.media.tumblr.com/559bdf7a9cc3146b96d9989c6c499bcc/tumblr_o85gdx8XUs1sjttato2_1280.jpg

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0c855cc3388cffc26c6afaa52a9f8501/tumblr_o85gdx8XUs1sjttato5_1280.jpg

macandchz

06-02-16, 09:40 AM

beautiful snake! those eyes say, "Don't turn your back on me!"

Albert Clark

06-02-16, 10:49 AM

Wow! Nice. It won't be long before you are breeding Vin Russo style. Lol.

bigsnakegirl785

06-02-16, 05:17 PM

Wow! Nice. It won't be long before you are breeding Vin Russo style. Lol.

It will still be quite awhile, I don't plan on breeding either of my females before they're 4.5-5 years (would like them to be closer to 5). So, still about 4 years to go. She's huge for a yearling, I thought she was only 3' but she stretched nearly the length and height of her tub, which is 34" and 15" respectively. If she's already so big she may actually be the first one to breed...If she is 4' she's bigger than I'm comfortable with for a yearling, so she's going to have her feedings spaced out faster than Nymeria's although if she is 4' smalls are probably going to be my only option for feeding her. 4' is a bit big to be on weaned rats.

bigsnakegirl785

06-08-16, 07:53 PM

Well, I went ahead and fed Tirel since I'm working tomorrow, and it's only a day early. The jumbo mouse was bigger compared to her than I though it would be, so weaned rats may actually be perfect for her for awhile yet.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7234/27552061185_c1c695476b_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7603/26942624144_d8b6cc1825_b.jpg

A few hours after eating:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7495/27552064355_61878cff5d_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7795/26942621564_ef74486fcc_b.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

06-11-16, 11:01 PM

Well I began handling on Friday, the handling session went well until I wanted to put her up. -.- Once I set her down, before I could get her off my hand, she shot up her tub and grabbed onto the lip with her head. I tried to pick her up off of it and she got ready to headbutt/snap at me, but pulled away halfway through the strike. After that, she let me put her up with little hassle.

I got to take her outside so here are some daylight photos. :) She's in her dark phase here.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7687/27337408680_2f95ca800f_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7457/27337409280_b76bd2f808_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7102/27337410420_2c7d1160e4_b.jpg

She seems weirdly intrigued by my camera, whenever I have it out taking pictures of her (during the two actual handling sessions I've had with her), she keeps bumping at the lens and trying to climb on the camera even as I'm pulling it away from her. (You can see her belly in the corner because she was crawling on it.)

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7240/27514748652_e710017c81_b.jpg

Here she is again investigating the lens, while I take a close up of her tail.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7315/27614414945_31cb419c75_b.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

06-11-16, 11:10 PM

And here's from tonight. I got some fake plants in today and put one in her tub. She was all excited over the washing machine going earlier, so I took her out to try to expend some of her energy.

Unfortunately I must not have had her out long enough because she once again shot up out of her tub, and grabbed onto her water dish, knocking it over while I tried to retrieve her. I ended up just leaving her there so I could take a photo and change her bedding.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7409/27541278741_7aa1a5819d_b.jpg

https://67.media.tumblr.com/9083a0fa5c971a6a2be98e907abb067e/tumblr_o8n5t23F9i1sjttato2_1280.jpg

And some from the handling session before becoming a problem child yet again.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7330/27514751572_5264885a4a_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7328/27337414580_3a4325356e_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7765/27003996974_db1836e195_b.jpg

And some that were a bit truer to color. She was in a light phase, so she was looking whiter/grayer than ever, with the brownness a little less pronounced, on her back.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7313/27337418450_d996943e3b_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7642/27541276831_d9b3042d1b_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7450/27514747372_096066a6aa_b.jpg

Eryaw

06-16-16, 04:38 PM

Beautiful animal. I really like the ghost boas- have 2 currently

Albert Clark

06-16-16, 04:46 PM

Amazing boa! He really looks healthy.

bigsnakegirl785

06-16-16, 08:01 PM

Beautiful animal. I really like the ghost boas- have 2 currently

I'm not actually a big fan of ghosts, but she fits in well with my breeding plans so I got her. I still think she's gorgeous, but ghosts don't generally strike my fancy.

That said, I do like some of those linebred ones, like the white group, bred to be less brown and more white/gray.

Amazing boa! He really looks healthy.

She's actually one of my females - or better be. lol

bigsnakegirl785

06-23-16, 12:18 AM

This feeding day she got her rat. :) I gave her a small rat this time since that's what the breeder had her on, but I think the bulge is a little large so I'm going to give her a weaned rat and see what sort of lump that leaves. If it isn't too small, I'll step her down to weaned rats, if they are too small I'll keep her on smalls but space her feedings out to every 3 weeks.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7473/27851213515_b2afb3653a_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7316/27816709896_20fec2178b_b.jpg

And the bulge after (it's cool seeing these pics side by side because she goes through such a nice color change).

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7282/27851279395_d7b46a9327_b.jpg

It didn't look too impressive from that angle, so here's a side view. Considering how large she is for her age, and the fact she's a year old, I'd like to see a barely noticeable bulge. I like to feed smaller prey items rather than feeding larger and having to space out the feedings even further.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7038/27238963664_3462051cb9_b.jpg

These photos are from the morning of. Whenever I open the window and turn on the fan, it makes her antsy for awhile and then she settles down at the front of her tub. Well front for me anyway.

Heard a thump in the night and found this. She was belly up but rolled over when I opened her tub.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7308/27219484963_dd017eb10f_b.jpg

What are you looking at?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7617/27831204695_a57fa6a837_b.jpg

And one from later on that morning, when she ended up dumping her water dish. She was not happy at all, and actually hissed at me when I went to pick her up. She didn't put up a fight at all and immediately stopped hissing when I lifted her up.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7440/27816708046_6846a91b25_b.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

06-27-16, 05:36 PM

Well today we had to take a vet visit for Tirel.

I woke up at 1 pm and Tirel was doing fine, she had her head hanging out of her vine. At about 2:30 pm I noticed movement in her vine: she was switching her tail around. I thought she was pooping so I came around to the side to look under her vines and see. I was greeted by a very swollen head, a loud hiss, a strike to the side of the tub, and then she violently jumped away deeper into her vines.

I lifted the vine out to look at her and I freaked out because her face was all puffy and she was still swinging her tail around.

Here's a video of the tail wagging.

https://vimeo.com/172488521

Here are some photos from before I took her to the vet.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/4f565b92e4f85f67ae2fd2c02e270eec.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/7cdf14f739b13c8345ac8e7d14dfa031.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/e40e4d3516f8d2eca83012b487135fd1.jpg

And at the vet's waiting to be seen.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/0171161a8c15af22a75f7f0735d7efbb.jpg

The vet said it's probably cellulitis and it's usually caused by a bacterial infection. He said we'd need to put her on antibiotics and and I asked him if it was possible to get some cultures done on it. We were unable to get any samples from the swollen area, so he got some from her throat but says that probably won't tell us what's going on with the swelling. He contacted the place they send the samples to see if there was any worthwhile samples he could get and we'll decide where to go from there.

For now, she got a shot of Fortaz so she at least has some sort of treatment overnight. Depending on what happens we'll either be staying with him for her treatment or going to the one in Asheville if we need a more experienced vet. I should be getting a call tomorrow to see what to do with her next.

She absolutely hated the visit, I thought for sure she'd bite or hiss or poop on us but the most she did was one very soft hiss and musk us. She had her pores WIDE open smearing it everywhere, it smelled heavily of fish in the office after that.

The weirdest thing is it went away as fast as it came on. Even before she got the shot he swelling went down. Her chin was so swollen it was hanging open slightly before I left but by the time I got to the vet office it had gone down enough to allow her mouth to close. By the time we took her out to give her the shot the swelling was almost completely gone.

Here she is when we got home.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/fc1daaa53ac654bbad111be633b3ea63.jpg

Hopefully everything goes well and we'll easily have her treated with a round of antibiotics. I'll post more tomorrow.

SWDK

06-27-16, 06:05 PM

Hope she'll be ok in a few days. Definitely quite strange how the swelling seemed to vanish so quickly. Good luck with her and keep us posted on her.

moshirimon

06-27-16, 06:54 PM

I wouldnt worry too much yet. You may be over thinking. Looks to me like shes either got a shed coming , or something about her environment is off. Ive had a couple whos skin stretch and swell up right after being in blue. Basically a day or two before their shed. Even when they lay a certain way in their enclosure for very long and they move, their face is sometimes shaped to where they were resting. Not sure if it makes sense. Also after drinking a large amount of water their, throat seems to look quite full and can actually look so for a couple hours. Weird looking but it comes and goes. I dont have a great explanation , but as long as its gone now and it was gone fast, and she eats, poops, huffs puffs and all the good stuff, you should be fine.

Ps. Try adding height to her enclosure only if you think it could be her enclosure making her stressed. Ive had a boa that wouldnt eat and was extremely aggressive until i provided a perch. Since then he ate every time. Still agressive but you could tell he was much more comfortable.

bigsnakegirl785

06-27-16, 07:31 PM

This definitely wasn't swelling from shedding, I've never seen my shedding snakes swell to this degree (also, usually the swelling doesn't happen until they go blue). She shed not long before she arrived here, so it's been about a month since she last shed. She could be due for another one, but it's hard to tell if her colors are off from whatever was irritating her or if it's a shed. I'll check up on her again tomorrow and see if there's any signs of shedding.

I am also aware of the drinking thing, but usually they drool and no water came out when I pressed on it. Her whole body was swollen-looking, but it was most noticeable in her throat.

She has yet to poop in my care, so it's been about 3 weeks at least. She did drop a urate, but no feces. She's eating fine but has only taken two meals so far. I'm hoping she'll poop by the time her next feeding day comes up, I plan on feeding her every 3 weeks so surely there will be some poop by then.

The fact that I don't know it is a bacterial infection is why I've asked the vet to get a culture before doing any more shots, the Fortaz was just preventative since we can't do anything right now.

I have no clue what could be off. Her husbandry is good, hot spot of 90F, 86F above the paper towels, and a room temp in the high 70's low 80's and it drops down to the low 70's at night. I felt like the small rat I gave her was a bit too big of a meal but surely that didn't cause it, she'll probably be put on weaned rats instead.

She's in a room closed off from the rest of the house, and there were no appliances running or anything.

Of course this doesn't mean there wasn't something off, but there's nothing immediately identifiable to me that could have scared her. She was tail-wagging before I even made a move towards her, it's what brought my attention to her in the first place.

She's generally rather docile, if a bit touchy, but I wouldn't call her defensive just easily startled.

But again, I'm trying to get a culture done to see if there is an infection.

Albert Clark

06-28-16, 07:08 AM

Wow bsg, sorry to see the dilemma with Tirel! Glad that she is on the mend. Did the vet mention a possible allergic reaction as well with the cellulitis? Just thinking about another possibility. Which could also come from anywhere. Good luck with her.

bigsnakegirl785

06-28-16, 12:23 PM

No, he didn't mention an allergic reaction but said it's possible maybe the air flow was a little low or the plastic vine causing problems when I brought it up. I'll ask him about the water like moshirimon mentioned and about an allergic reaction when I go in. So far no call, but they don't close until 8 pm.

So far she's still doing well, she doesn't seem to like that the vine is gone but I want to eliminate that as a possibility. She keeps crawling around like she's trying to find the best spot. She'll get it back when it's cleaned. lol

bigsnakegirl785

06-28-16, 04:00 PM

Well I brought up the possibilities of an allergic reaction and holding water and he said he didn't really see either being likely. He hasn't really heard of allergic reactions in snakes, and he agreed the water probably wasn't being likely either. They normally drool out some amount of the water out of their mouth, and her holding water in her throat for over 2 hours seems a bit unlikely. I first noticed the swelling at ~2:30 pm and didn't get home until sometime after 5-5:30 pm, and the swelling wasn't completely gone until awhile after I made the response at 7:30 pm, I think it was about 8-9 pm I saw her neck was 100% back to normal.

I've made a vet appointment for Friday to bring her back in. The testing office did say that the throat swab was great and to send the sample in, so he's sending that in today. We should have the results by Friday, so hopefully we'll know where to go from there. I won't be able to make any trips out to Asheville until Saturday or Sunday (I work soon after the appt Friday), and they're closed then. We'll have to play it by ear and see. Hopefully everything will be straight forward so we can get everything done quick and easy. If she doesn't turn up with an infection, I'll probably defer to the Asheville vet, and hope I can make Monday or Tuesday work somehow. If she does turn up with an infection, the current vet should be able to handle it.

Andy_G

06-28-16, 04:03 PM

I've had a snake cut it's mouth on a cage decoration while eating somehow and it became inflamed like that for about a day...doesn't sound like that's the case here. Hope you find the issue out soon.

bigsnakegirl785

07-01-16, 01:32 PM

Well the test results came back with Pseudomonoas aeruginosa. The bacteria was found to be sensitive to both Baytril and Fortaz, but since we've already started with Fortaz we'll continue with that. She's getting 10 injections every 3 days, and the vet says if she's showing no worrisome signs we should be fine to just put her back to normal husbandry.

I've increased her hot spot, it's going to take a bit of tweaking with the thermostat to get it to where I want it, but I'm aiming for 93-94F rather than 90-91F.

I cannot find much information on this bacteria at all on Google, but it seems to mostly be associated with mouth rot and RIs, and a lot of snakes seem to die. From what I've read it's not contagious, it's an opportunistic bacteria, but she'll still be in quarantine of course. It seems they often refuse food, but she took 2 meals readily, so the infection either started after her last meal or it wasn't affecting her, or this bacteria isn't the one causing the infection.

That said, she was making some clicking sounds at the vet's today, but I'm not sure if that's from the stress of 2 vet visits, the way she was sitting (she was curled tightly in a ball from the injection), or what. I'm just going to keep an eye on her and see how she develops.

Today she pooped for the first time since getting her, and it was disgusting. It was smelly and large and rather runny. Not sure if that's from the Fortaz or not. She's also starting to show signs of dehydration from the meds or possibly wetness exposure, as she's dumped her water dish 2 or 3 times now and pooped today. Her scales are bending and curling up all over. I've washed her off and I'm hoping she doesn't keep dumping her water dish so it can stay dry in there.

bigsnakegirl785

07-07-16, 09:46 PM

Luckily the medicine doesn't seem to be slowing down her appetite at all! She took a weaned rat today like she hadn't eaten in months, and after looking at the bulge it left I think I'm going to go ahead and move her down to weaned rats. They leave a respectable bulge, but nothing outrageous.

Tomorrow she gets her next shot, which makes her 4th. Still no sign of any more swelling, and although I don't plan on handling her like I normally would, I should probably take her out this weekend and give her a once-over. If she has another gross poo I'll ask my vet about that, and if the medicine probably isn't causing it I may see about having a fecal done.

bigsnakegirl785

07-13-16, 11:25 PM

Tirel has been doing well, no more swelling still, and she just showed the first signs of shedding a few days ago! Today, she's starting to darken up but hasn't gone milky yet (there's a hint though).

She has not been happy for the last two shots (not that I blame her). She's fine when I get her out, but as soon as I walk into the room, she starts striking at any movement. The other day she was calmer since we didn't have the A/C on when she came in, but she still put in a few strikes. I heard a little hiss come from the little girl while I was locking up her tub, too. All this time, I've seen videos of loud hissing boas, and her hisses are just so quiet. lol

https://66.media.tumblr.com/202f2a6fc1e02cf92209f32ae1639a43/tumblr_oaah2uPXzo1sjttato3_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

07-16-16, 01:36 PM

Tirel decided to be helpful today. :P Today marks the 6th shot, so she doesn't have to put up with it for much longer. There was a period where her chin/lips were looking a bit discolored, but that's gone away. Hopefully she poops before her next shot is due, and she continues to do well. I think the redness in her tail area is gone, but it's hard to tell now that she's shedding (it was way redder than a pre-shed flush and in the wrong area), so that's good.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8639/28315651616_447d5e5b01_b.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

07-21-16, 04:27 PM

She was especially bad this time, striking and hissing at the TV and her own shadow on the bed. Usually she calms down after a minute or two, but she wouldn't let up. I think that's just because she couldn't see so well. She ended up bucking under the needle pretty hard, causing me to accidentally tear some of her skin under the finger I was using to hold her down and feel for her spine. It was just the old layer, not her new skin, so there's that at least. I'll be keeping an eye on it and make sure she gets most of her shed off ok, she should be shedding by next weekend.

I really hope after her shots are done I can get her to calm down again, I feel really bad only taking her out to stick her, but handling her outside of that would just be overhandling and probably make it worse.

bigsnakegirl785

07-21-16, 05:14 PM

Her previous swelling:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/e40e4d3516f8d2eca83012b487135fd1.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/0171161a8c15af22a75f7f0735d7efbb.jpg

Versus her shed cycle swelling:

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8202/28355981622_2d49b077bb_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8850/27844043764_b44dba6bdb_b.jpg

So, as you can see the two are very different, and that's why I didn't think it was a shed cycle when I first posted about her condition. I have seen many many shed cycles, start to finish, and I've never seen swelling of that degree.

Plus, again, in this photo you can see the swelling was so bad that her lip was being pulled open. Here, it was just that one side, but after a few minutes both sides of her mouth was open, with her lips pulled out.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160627/7cdf14f739b13c8345ac8e7d14dfa031.jpg

I want to take her for another check up just in case, but hopefully she's in the clear. It's just so weird that it happened so quickly and then disappeared on its own.

EL Ziggy

07-21-16, 06:51 PM

I'm glad she's doing better BSG.

bigsnakegirl785

07-22-16, 10:58 AM

I'm glad she's doing better BSG.

Thanks, I'll be even more glad when her shots are over and she's ok. She bucked under the needle and tore the old skin under my finger, I really don't like handling my snakes in shed. I'm sure she'll have a few problem areas, but I'll just have to help her out when the time comes if she doesn't get it all off.

Once her shots are done, I'll give her a cooling off period and then begin regular handling. She'll also be due for another feeding once she sheds

dannybgoode

07-23-16, 03:06 PM

Lovely addition BSG and sorry to hear she's had to go through this but at least she's in good hands.

Hopefully once the shots are through she'll calm down to the average chilled out boa temperament.

dannybgoode

07-27-16, 03:55 AM

Nice snake BSG and yes she's a biggie for a 1yo. Auntie Rachel (who admittedly is a CA Bi) is way smaller - 27" or so and nowhere near ready for rats.

bigsnakegirl785

07-27-16, 02:02 PM

Nice snake BSG and yes she's a biggie for a 1yo. Auntie Rachel (who admittedly is a CA Bi) is way smaller - 27" or so and nowhere near ready for rats.

Yup, CAs generally are smaller. My other yearling was 36" last I measured her, and my oldest, Cloud, was 31" when he was a year. I raised Cloud on rats, but the other yearling Nymeria has been raised on mice, and although she's eating jumbo mice no problem now, weaned rats are a little too large for a regular meal at the moment. Tirel here is getting weaned rats for a bit until she gets big enough that I'm comfortable giving her smalls as a staple. It's not that I don't think they can get them down (getting them down and seeing the bulge is what helped me decide haha), it's just I don't believe large meals should be fed often or regularly.

Also, she shed a few days ago and was way less grumpy for her last shot! I think her shed cycle was just making her moody. She did still hiss when I picked her up and bit a paper towel roll I was carrying, but after that she was fine. Today she gets another shot and then there's only one left! I plan on putting her on EcoEarth/mulch mix once that's done, and probably getting a bigger, heavier bowl, too.

dannybgoode

07-27-16, 03:04 PM

Quite agree re the feeding. Auntie Rachel is on a large mouse every 14 days now (went up last feed). I'm in absolutely no hurry to bring her along too quick-slow and steady.

See so many massively overfed boas. People mistake greed for hunger I think...

bigsnakegirl785

07-31-16, 07:54 PM

Now that her shots are finished, I decided to take her out today so she can stop associating being handled with getting stuck with a needle. It went a lot better than it has been going. She barely hissed when I got her out, only struck 3 times, and nobody got bit. :P

She's looking so pretty after a shed, too.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/05f3c995cd5422043a2d3bea00b53cd7/tumblr_ob7fh5Rqik1sjttato2_1280.jpg

http://66.media.tumblr.com/4b04f879a6697647cb3094c82c8d4870/tumblr_ob7fh5Rqik1sjttato4_1280.jpg

And with some sunlight.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/9a5cdbf28df65602ccda8cfe26702a42/tumblr_ob7fh5Rqik1sjttato3_1280.jpg

It was really difficult to photograph her because if I brought the camera close enough to focus on her, she'd almost immediately stretch out to meet it so she could rest her nose on the lens. She'd even stretch a good 2/3 of her length to go after it, never had a boa that determined to reach for something.

bigsnakegirl785

08-01-16, 10:19 PM

Well she pooped again yesterday, a lot quicker this time, but it was still runny and really smelly, and the urine was really really dark yellow. From what I read, Fortaz can cause diarrhea, but I'm not seeing signs of renal failure or anything, just some dehydration, so I'm just going to make sure to bump her humidity a bit again and get her into the vet's again to make sure it's the Fortaz causing the gross poos and make sure it's okay to put her on EcoEarth, since it will drastically raise her humidity. Also, to recheck her mouth in case of any abscesses, although the initial check up showed her mouth was clear, I just want to make sure and it won't cost me any extra money. Probably won't be able to take her in until later this week or next week, since that's when I have my days off.

bigsnakegirl785

08-09-16, 02:28 PM

I was hoping to get to the vet this week but turns out I'm working every single week day. :( When I get the next schedule I'll see about next week, luckily I don't think there's an emergency anymore.

She's sitting steady at 502 grams before giving her another weaned rat. It's crazy to think within a month she'd put on 100+ grams, and now has been holding that weight for the past month. Technically, she's gained ~10 grams, but it's nothing like 100 grams. haha

As of the last time I handled her, there were no hisses, strikes, or anything. :D

dannybgoode

08-10-16, 05:41 AM

So glad she's doing well BSG. She's a lovely snake and I look forward to seeing her progress.

bigsnakegirl785

08-10-16, 06:33 PM

So glad she's doing well BSG. She's a lovely snake and I look forward to seeing her progress.

Thank you, me as well! She's gotten paler since her shed, so hopefully that trend continues. :)

bigsnakegirl785

08-13-16, 09:39 PM

She gave a little hiss when I got her out, and nibbled the camera lens a bit, but overall she did good today. She let me bring my hand up under her head without hissing, striking, pulling back, or whipping her head to look at it.

I don't think I'll trust her on the ground outside of her tub any time soon, though.

http://67.media.tumblr.com/fd05975baad3be9fba219fa063e2b0a3/tumblr_obvh75Y5cp1sjttato4_1280.jpg

http://66.media.tumblr.com/3c01a36cadf086877b63ab8a7477d6ff/tumblr_obvh75Y5cp1sjttato2_1280.jpg

http://67.media.tumblr.com/939656cfb88d9ffdbffeb17363beae1a/tumblr_obvh75Y5cp1sjttato1_1280.jpg

http://67.media.tumblr.com/594ff3936cd9bcfc49257c77cf04702b/tumblr_obvh75Y5cp1sjttato3_1280.jpg

http://67.media.tumblr.com/b8e186f7474d87bdf9da8afda2b0b46d/tumblr_obvh75Y5cp1sjttato5_1280.jpg

http://66.media.tumblr.com/94f228ff85308ec0a2e59581909a836b/tumblr_obvhbwJIqS1sjttato1_1280.jpg

She was poking the tip of her tail into my arm trying to get a grip. lol

http://67.media.tumblr.com/4498ab479e7136ec41c03bd0c5b38974/tumblr_obvhbwJIqS1sjttato3_1280.jpg

http://66.media.tumblr.com/36a44c828649ade56118183cf8cde573/tumblr_obvhbwJIqS1sjttato2_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

08-13-16, 09:44 PM

http://66.media.tumblr.com/3077fda385303cfbc92e02cb291dc9db/tumblr_obvhdd92rj1sjttato1_1280.jpg

http://65.media.tumblr.com/4e7e4a8a05c9bea9d75d6e48333cda0b/tumblr_obvhbwJIqS1sjttato4_1280.jpg

And a few with flash indoors. According to SerpWidgets, she's ~3.5, but a good portion of it wasn't flat, so she could be a few inches larger than that. So, she's about as big as I originally thought, closer to 3.5' than 4', but she's definitely somewhere in the middle. Guess she seemed bigger stretching out along her tub. The outdoor photos are closer to her actual colors, but I'm including these too since they show her size a bit better than most of the others.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8612/28967153305_dc2243d7a4_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8559/28681608570_5f9c8fbb6d_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8579/28862511042_afb251b4d1_b.jpg

Tsubaki

08-14-16, 02:47 AM

Titel is looking good :D getting some size on her!

bigsnakegirl785

08-14-16, 04:00 PM

Titel is looking good :D getting some size on her!

Thanks! I've only had her a few months I'd be surprised if she's grown all that much. I'm not sure how much length 100 grams gives to a snake of her size. lol With Nymeria, from 80-180 was about half a foot of length, and 180-280 was another half a foot. Seems odd if Tirel grew half a foot from her 100 grams since she arrived already dwarfing Nymeria, and Nymeria had already reached 3' by then. :/

If she cooperates, I'm thinking it might be best to get her stretched against the wall for a more accurate measurement, it's just not adding up. lol

Tsubaki

08-14-16, 11:35 PM

Snakes are good at making no sense though :)

bigsnakegirl785

10-09-16, 05:20 PM

Well Tirel weighed in at 639 grams today. I'm going to be moving her back on to small rats, and I will be spacing her and Nymeria's feedings out from every 2 weeks to every 4 weeks over the winter. Today's feeding will mark the beginning of the winter "famine" period. Next winter they'll be completely fasted.

She's getting bigger and bigger! She nearly completely engulfs my hand now.

bigsnakegirl785

10-16-16, 07:07 PM

I had a hunch earlier this week she was going into shed, and today she proved me right!

She was not happy at all about being taken out, but I had to change her paper towels. They were bloody from her feeding earlier, but I was giving her a few days to let her feeding response die down and give her time to digest. These two photos are before and after she struck at the camera.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F 9%2F8139%2F30337838556_5079b73a50_b.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc2.staticflickr.com%2F 6%2F5779%2F30337841046_96d6028ac1_b.jpg

And back in her tub. When I change her paper towels I like to spray them down flat because if I don't she bunches them up in a corner. I would have done it before putting her back, but she was in shed and grumpy and I wanted to get out of her hair ASAP. She didn't like the spray but didn't strike at me so there's that.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc2.staticflickr.com%2F 6%2F5457%2F30337843116_4aa44816d9_b.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F 9%2F8417%2F30337845426_7d69e9b1ec_b.jpg

The shipping box is the box Guin was shipped in over a year ago. I just repurposed it into a hide.

bigsnakegirl785

10-24-16, 10:14 PM

The site was down when I wanted to post this update, so here it is a few days late.

Still quite blue a week later.

I picked up her hide to see if she was done shedding yet or not, and when I put the hide back over her I touched her tail and that was the last straw. lol

Better safe than sorry spraying her, she look a bit dry, and it's the only way to affect humidity on paper towels. She didn't mind the spray just did NOT want me touching her.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F 9%2F8677%2F29896374014_1c794263b8_b.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc2.staticflickr.com%2F 6%2F5815%2F29894265103_12eec59c8d_b.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F 9%2F8610%2F29894286273_cda91f2db8_b.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cache.php?img=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F 9%2F8641%2F30526939005_4ea316b839_b.jpg

Tsubaki

10-25-16, 07:42 PM

Haha! Got a few "Don't you dare touch me" snakes myself, always fun. She looks great even in shed :D

bigsnakegirl785

11-01-16, 02:57 PM

Finally got the internet working, had the company reset everything. We were only getting .15 mbps upload speed, now we're getting almost 6. lol

So here's some post-shed pics of Tirel. :) She shed on the 29th, and she's really gaining some respectable size now. She doesn't have a lot of natural girth, but once she's on larger rats that should change. Even when she first got here, her tail was oddly tapered from the rest of her body, and now her body tone is more uniform. I think she's just one of those gangly, tall teenagers atm because she is packing on the weight and gaining size quite a bit faster than Nymeria, who is fed similarly but of much stockier build.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5659/30084418703_fab84fc119_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5749/30719062195_26470d081e_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5623/30084422133_e736705cc8_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5825/30084423493_8ba0e63c6f_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5504/30719064095_7fec6b3dfc_h.jpg

Here she's pulling her mouth open trying to drag herself across her back.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5344/30084426183_85000801ba_h.jpg

dannybgoode

11-03-16, 02:07 PM

bigsnakegirl785

11-03-16, 09:50 PM

Looking good as always bsg. And yes she is getting some boa size to her now. It's funny how they're nothing nothing nothing-hit 18mo or so and bang.

I had Auntie Rachel out today and was thinking just how much she's come on in the last couple of months and I've slowed her feeding right down for winter but she's getting some size to her.

I saw what I think is her mum though in the store and she's huge for a CA. I mean really big-7 1/2' big! And girthy also.

She's been growing like a maniac since I first got her. Within the first month I got her, she put on 100 grams just from 2 meals (and yes weighed her empty). Last I weighed her, she was 639 and had gained 240 grams since I got her 4 months before that. It's been about another month so I wouldn't be surprised if she's put on another 50 grams or so.

I just now started slowing Tirel's feeding down with her last feeding, switched her to monthly for the winter and she has less than a week to go for her next meal. So we'll see how that's affected her growth. She's been taking it pretty good, though, no increase in grumpiness and she's not overly excited about finding food.

At 7.5' she's definitely not a dwarf, no matter how you feed them they aren't going to get that big. The only CA I can think of that reaches that sort of size are Costa Ricans, I saw some boas while I was down there that were easily 8'-9', and the smallest might have been 6'. If her mom was that big, I'd expect an average-sized boa for sure! The girthiness mostly just comes down to feeding, so as long as you don't overfeed Auntie Rachel she shouldn't get too bad in that regard.

dannybgoode

11-04-16, 12:13 AM

bigsnakegirl785

11-04-16, 01:08 AM

Oh the mum is a CA. No mistaking. She's just the exception to the rule. And she's girthy but not overweight. She's just a really big snake. The owner / breeder is one of the most experienced in the UK and I don't doubt the lineage or the husbandry one jot. He said he has not seem another one like her but there's always one that breaks the norm!

That's like saying a chihuahua the size of a Great Dane is an exception. It's not possible for a boa usually termed CA (aka dwarves) to get 7.5' without outside blood. She may look like a dwarf CA, but that doesn't mean she's pure, she's likely been outcrossed with a larger locality or species/subspecies somewhere along the line and just happened to inherit a lot of dwarf CA phenotypes, or what appear to be CA phenotypes.

It's impossible to know her percentages just by looking at her, so unless you or the owner happen to have papers stating she's a pure CA, I don't believe for a second she's a pure dwarf. Papers can be faked, but it would lend a bit more credibility vs just saying she looks like CA. A boa being referred to simply as "Central American" doesn't lend them much credibility, either, as it could be any number of localities and is basically used when they have no clue what they have.

Another possibility is she's one of the larger CA localities, Costa Rican or Panamanian, which was a possibility I listed above (forgot about the Panamanians though). I'm sure there's a couple others as well. These aren't generally referred to as Central American, usually only the dwarf localities, but that's also possible what's happening here. Usually the "CA" boas are Nicaraguan, Sonoran, Caulker Cay, etc., and you'll be hard pressed to get them much over 5' let alone 7.5'. 6' is within the realm of possibilities, but usually done with powerfeeding and big parents, and is the equivalent to a 9'-10' Colombian.

bigsnakegirl785

11-04-16, 01:21 AM

I also don't want you to think I'm being mean or anything, just stating that if the mother is 7.5' you're probably not going to have a small boa. Generally, the dwarves are labelled CAs, so that's immediately what I think of here. If that's not the way you all are using it then I apologize. The term is ambiguous at best already, and it doesn't help that hybrids and crosses are almost impossible to identify. haha

dannybgoode

11-04-16, 01:22 AM

bigsnakegirl785

11-04-16, 04:33 AM

I'm 90% Paul will have the paperwork-I will check with him. He's been breeding 30 years or so and I know length of service isn't necessarily a measure of expertise but in his case I would not doubt him for a second. None of her offspring have been sold as dwarf CA or dwarf in any way.

As I say they've never seen one as big before but he produced her so I imagine he's confident of the lineage. She's a stunner either way and if I had the space currently I'd snap her up :)

Oh and I don't think you're being mean. I appreciate your input but if Paul gels me she's a CA I'll take his word. He would be the first to call someone else out if he thought there were questions over lineage.

Sounds good! Your girl definitely has that CA dwarf look, but she's growing like a Colombian. I think last time you made an update her and Nymeria were close together. Nymeria has stagnated on length growth, though...she's still gaining weight but no length in a few months even with the upgrade in prey size.

I took Tirel out again tonight, and she gave me a single short hiss in protestation, but was docile and quiet when I picked her up.

I thought she had to have been close to 4' by now, but after getting Howl in, I don't think she is. He's quite a bit bigger than she is and comes out to an inch or two at most over 4' on SerpWidgets, she comes out at just over 3.5'.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5774/30769790705_341d209b8d_h.jpg

She was worried there for a bit that she might fall and was really flexing those tail muscles. When she let go her tail was red. haha

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5645/30469151570_a74aafe8ef_h.jpg

And her big fat head.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5713/30469152360_8c7bac9378_h.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

11-22-16, 11:26 PM

Had Tirel out last week, she was in a dark phase. She's growing nicely, but is probably my scrawniest boa. haha Even when I first got her, she didn't have a whole lot of girth. For a time there she had this comical body where the main part of her body was thick and square then you get to her tail and it was like a piece of spaghetti just randomly attached to her. lol After awhile of feeding her conservatively, her body is a lot more proportionate she's just not a thick girl at all. I'm thinking once she gets bigger she should start putting on some girth, but she will probably always be a lean girl.

She's also doing pretty good on monthly feedings, gaining weight rapidly and growing in length pretty decently. Howl is still a bit bigger than her but she's closing in on him.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5581/31083748146_c7f569cba1_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5784/31119925575_ecaf8718e0_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5648/31083746676_f935473c3a_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5601/31119926455_3200c9e5a4_h.jpg

This one shows her iridescence nicely even if the white balance is a little high.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5798/31119927275_9d1f92900a_h.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5462/31083746006_ec4d40e735_h.jpg

I like how her tail has this one aberrant spot where the saddle is broken up.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5833/30752664210_5637f6b17f_h.jpg

And finally, a full bodied photo of her in her tub.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5648/31119929035_8ea7e46fd8_h.jpg

DLLNP

11-29-16, 11:29 AM

bigsnakegirl785

11-29-16, 11:17 PM

Looks great BSG! I can't believe how big she is already...I have a Colombian a few months younger that is a third of the size (although her first year she was horribly neglected so she's a behind in growth).

I'm sure it says somewhere in here, but what do you have her on for feeders now? I think when you initially got her at ~400g she was on weaned rats? Have you bumped her up to small rats now? I have a 300g CA that I currently have on Jumbo mice but was starting to consider bumping him up to (smaller, 30-35g-ish) weaned rats soon

Yes I've bumped her up to smalls now that she's over 600 grams and eating monthly for the winter. I'm sure I could keep her on weaned for awhile longer, just figured if I'm going to feed her monthly during the winter I might as well go ahead and bump her.

Yes, she's a decent sized girl. Her breeder was feeding her bigger meals than I was, but I haven't bothered asking for frequency. I think she's also as big as she is partly because she's a naturally fast grower. Even with the way I've been feeding her she just about doubled her weight 4 months (1.5x her original weight). I haven't weighed her recently, but with the way she's been growing I wouldn't be surprised if she's reached/exceeded 700 grams by now unless the monthly feeding has slowed her down a bit.

My sunglow girl Nymeria is ~400 grams and has just been bumped to weaned rats, she was 360-370 grams when I gave her her first official weaned rat. Jumbo mice were just causing her to get chunky and she hasn't really gained any length while eating them. She's had maybe 2-3 weaned rats now and I'll eventually get around to measuring her to see if she's starting growing again.

Nymeria is a few weeks older than Tirel is, and she's at least half a foot shorter, but much girthier, so I think Tirel is just a fast grower. So far, Crona's growth is very close to what Nymeria's has been.

bigsnakegirl785

12-12-16, 12:11 AM

Well she's bunched up her paper towels again. >.> She seems so clumsy on them, I'm seriously debating putting the remaining EcoEarth from the latest batch in here for her. I'm kinda worried about doing that, though. As you can see in the first photo, there's a bit of condensation along the bottom back wall of her tub. That's where cold air is moving past. No misting at all since I changed her paper towels, this is all just humidity from the room and evaporation from her water dish. It's not cold enough it's making her cold (she feels warm to the touch when I take her out and the temp gun shows her body temp in the 80's), but it does create some condensation. I'm worried about damp EcoEarth making it too cold in her tub. :/ I might try putting some plastic over my window, too, and see if that helps, but it might be cold coming from the wall of the trailer.

http://i.imgur.com/IcRcpRw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4bEJlVk.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

01-02-17, 01:16 AM

A little over a week ago I switched her to aspen as she was tipping her bowl again, and I was too lazy at the time to expand EcoEarth. So far, she seems to be doing well on it, so I may keep the aspen for now since EcoEarth tends to get moldy on flexwatt in my experience and I used up the last of the cypress in the last rainbow bedding changes.

She spent a lot of time buried.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/fda90c2a9e76299fb0c2ff573a5b0578/tumblr_oiq6af2sUz1sjttato3_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/742147f0a195e4403287b5e9f4dd6455/tumblr_oiq6af2sUz1sjttato1_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/ab43a1df291ba12be1927c17da462fa9/tumblr_oiq6af2sUz1sjttato2_1280.jpg

And was relaxing topside today in a light phase.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/843e0b8f0c452cbad6120ceec35eff9a/tumblr_oj54hoO8bb1sjttato1_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/87d3386ceb1dd663e05739cfd84e030b/tumblr_oj54hoO8bb1sjttato2_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

01-08-17, 10:29 PM

A few minutes ago she was climbing around and being noisy so I took her out to try to calm her. Turns out, she had pooped in the corner and that was why she was being all hyper. lol Cleaned that up and put her back and she calmed right down.

I tried to get some photos to show her size, but not only was she not being cooperative, the battery died after only these photos. :/ Still, she's still steadily growing. I swear she's catching up to Howl's size, but since I can't put them side by side I can't tell for sure. Howl is still undoubtedly the bigger one but she's getting closer and closer. She may reach 4' well before her 2nd b-day...

Tirel has two more meals spaced monthly before I put her back on every 2 weeks. Then, like Nymeria, she'll be fed every 3 weeks when she turns 2 in June.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/e3363b101b84c2e2834c5a566e529a4c/tumblr_ojhw5nYcqA1sjttato4_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/95205ea5c24ac93589b819e1b31c610f/tumblr_ojhw5nYcqA1sjttato3_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/38bd9adb962fe36dec3c30f4024f83c4/tumblr_ojhw5nYcqA1sjttato1_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/48684b9c291d4f215454331c69d01b91/tumblr_ojhw5nYcqA1sjttato2_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

02-10-17, 04:32 PM

She recently shed, and rather than using her hide she pushed her hide to the side and dug a shallow in her bedding and sat there the entire time.

http://68.media.tumblr.com/7fb296a8cc3e73a2360e827bcea8db2d/tumblr_okoptrfyup1sjttato1_1280.jpg

http://68.media.tumblr.com/345fe7e465ad6256e3fe0bec73472256/tumblr_okoptrfyup1sjttato2_1280.jpg

Here's some photos from last night better showing her size.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2743/32434023690_638382bb35_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/765/32434091240_dc510c80d4_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/625/32661211782_32ff8bbf62_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/415/32691427311_984656f441_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/603/32773851626_40e77101a8_h.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

04-04-17, 10:18 PM

Some old photos because apparently I got behind on her thread. She's nearly 700 grams now. As expected, she hasn't gained as much weight while eating monthly over the winter, but still put on 18 grams each month averaged out so still not bad at all.

Light phase with flash.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/622af6bdd70a99810a23e970399681de/tumblr_olb43x8T5K1sjttato2_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/5c14d2d4b51fa68be0ab69314c08b291/tumblr_olb43x8T5K1sjttato1_1280.jpg

Without flash.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/1650ea773bcb5d4aba565e03b1d649f6/tumblr_olb43x8T5K1sjttato3_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/78a268cab9f097c3d715d4789cb8cd6a/tumblr_olb43x8T5K1sjttato4_1280.jpg

And some of her awkwardness. She's started sleeping out in the open on her log since I added it to her tub. >.>

https://68.media.tumblr.com/ab24ba1e0a7ae16fa7b33269969497c5/tumblr_omw2u2rJu11sjttato5_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/2e5bb61b27be5890c297714031568ffd/tumblr_omw2u2rJu11sjttato2_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/bada1fb75534229bc01248df65a8be0b/tumblr_omw2u2rJu11sjttato4_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/10a7475d988a851e65af13debca2aeec/tumblr_omw2u2rJu11sjttato1_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

04-04-17, 10:19 PM

These were taken last month, after putting her back in her tub after cleaning it.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/159e1540128a7c37e08699c178ad43c3/tumblr_onx4cqOCy11sjttato4_1280.jpg

"Better not come any closer." That's the wrinkly boa neck of distrust. lol

https://68.media.tumblr.com/be802f4cf51e5caa374921fde503735a/tumblr_onx4cqOCy11sjttato3_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/8d5f1e377121ed5d90a5f62dea9c191c/tumblr_onx4cqOCy11sjttato2_1280.jpg

https://68.media.tumblr.com/ad8700ae45f7b589e121c01f049a3ef0/tumblr_onx4cqOCy11sjttato1_1280.jpg

bigsnakegirl785

05-06-17, 04:10 PM

Tirel might finally be able to go back to a 2 week schedule now. lmao Between her shed cycle and the freezer failing she's been eating monthly for like 2 months longer than I'd have liked originally.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4188/34082064730_8e7f96e8cd_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4183/33624717244_fd706461e6_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2869/34082069810_94925be9a2_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/34466766045_2eb8471022_h.jpg

richardhind

05-07-17, 12:21 AM

Looking good bsg,I like her white bits on his cheeks against the black and grey they really show up

dannybgoode

05-07-17, 01:55 AM

I love the 4th photo from the set from the other day. Beautiful face and a lovely expression. She's growing up to be a beauty.

bigsnakegirl785

05-31-17, 12:45 AM

Tirel and Howl are nearly the same size now!

Tirel next to my foot.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4186/33959268194_26beb23fd2_h.jpg

Howl next to my foot.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4219/34639637642_8631f304ef_h.jpg

She recently shed, and once she poops from her most recent meal I plan on getting a more recent weight on her. I'd be surprised if she isn't 4' now though!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4223/34639625802_af709014e4_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4247/33959273844_25130cef54_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4275/34639616882_2ffd4dc60b_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4181/34639620062_c9f8a97133_h.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4225/33959272064_104fb1e391_h.jpg