Hypothetical Inhabitant...

[DDW]

Hypothetically, I want to know a good snake of snake to put in a new enclosure I may or may not be getting. Exo Terra 36" x18" x18" is the enclosure. The conditions are:
1) must not out grow the enclosure(I also don't want to overwhelm the little noodle either)
2) must be avaliable in a distinguishable morph(albino is best I think. Nothing that can be confused as a wild snake to an inexperienced person. IE solid black, rings, green, ect.)
3)milk or Kingsnake(of course, that is why I have this in this forum sectionXD)

I really look forward to your responses, I want to see what is possible.

I have been really considering a California king, albino stripe }(:==========
But I fear the enclosure will be much to big for a Cali King.

Also, experience, opinions, and pictures are very welcome^.=.^

Other stuff is debatable of coarse:)

[albertagirl]

I am a huge fan of the african house snake, my current favorite, but if you only want kings or milks I'm partial to variable kings. I don't any (yet), but they will never outgrow that cage, and they come in a bunch of color phases.
I can't think of any milk snakes that don't have rings or turn solid black, but I could be wrong.

[Andy_G]

Lampropeltis in general are very secretive and spend most of their time hiding so if you're looking for a display animal, depending on the individual snake, it may not do well in that size enclosure or live up to your expectations in that aspect. IMO that cage will be far too large for hatchlings of most species so you'll need a smaller temoporary enclosure until your snake gets some size...but the opinions on that definitely vary. As far as morphs are concerned you definitely have some options. Also just so you are aware... MOST adult california kingsnakes really enjoy chewing on fingers and mistake them for food all the time. If you're willing to deal with this, they may be a great option. I'm sure others will chime in with their recommendations. I've always been a huge fan of a nice pure love or abbott line okeetee corn snake.

Albertagirl, eastern milksnakes look similar to corn snakes so there's that one. :)

[albertagirl]

Albertagirl, eastern milksnakes look similar to corn snakes so there's that one. :)

Ah yes, of course! Thanks for catching that Andy! :)

And I will second the vote for a corn snake. They come in hundreds of color morphs, many of which would never be mistaken for a wild snake.
Check out <http://iansvivarium.com/morphs/> or <http://www.farbvarianten-lexikon.de/morphuebersicht.php> for pictures of the many, many options.

[DDW]

I am really surprised about how fast y'all respondedXD

I have looked into reverse okatee corn snakes and rather like the color but how is a corn's disposition in general? Wouldn't a corn be too small?

As for hatchling debate, I would be willing to get a juvenile or supply many hides(really simple to get cheap hides for small snakesXD)

I have seen different morphs of milk snakes similar to those of the morphs of Kings, such as the Honduran milknake. Bands may be able to be overlooked if the snake where albino however. Depends on the coloration and markings

I don't know much about technical terms for genes and such but if it's bright(and not "mean" looking) ID look into it.

But fancy morphs(for lack of a better word) are often hard to find and/or expensive and I don't want to pay mor than $75 for the snake itself(even better if less. Been watching the classifieds and such) this is why I often just say albino or similar.

[Andy_G]

Lots of milksnake morphs but I am uncertain if they would be too much for you. I don't know that market where you live.

Corns are pretty docile and handle very well, they are inexpensive, and their adult size (usually) ranges from 3 to 5 feet, with most individuals being right around the 3.5-4 foot mark. Your price point would further reinforce that a corn snake would be perfect for you.

[SerpentineDream]

Corn snakes aren't huge, but they are substantial. My adult female is 4 feet and as big around as a garden hose. They come in a rainbow of colors and are generally quite docile and easy to get along with. As babies they are usually subdued in color and eat pinky mice. Their colors intensify as they grow up, and as adults they eat medium adult mice. Females eat once every 7 to 10 days and males every 10 to 14 days as adults (babies every week). Males tend to be bigger than females--which is not usually the case with snakes--but they have slower metabolisms.

Corn snakes are popular for a reason. It's because they are awesome, user-friendly snakes.

[albertagirl]

Since you asked for pictures, as an example of bright, here is a fire morph corn snake, available for $75 in the states, based on the pricelist on Home (http://www.srcorns.com), who has just one of the most amazing corn snake collections.

This is a 2 year old, so still more growing to do, but definitely some color in this one. Currently 3'4" or so, and about 250 grams.

35115

[SerpentineDream]

Don Soderberg has some bloodred female 2015 hatchlings left for $50 on his website. https://cornsnake.net/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1181&virtuemart_category_id=232&Itemid=250&lang=en He's got a fresh crop of babies of various morphs coming out soon. You can browse the site and get an idea of some of the myriad color morphs available. I've bought a bunch of snakes from Don and never gotten a bad one yet. :)

[DDW]

Wow, I never really fully considered a corn snake, but it seems you may have sold me. Anyone have any basic info on care and such because I've only looked at Kings, milks, and BPs. I've heard they don't need much heat (still needs a heat mat I know)

Will a young(likely not hatchling) do okay or well in the enclosure with many hides avaliable? I probably will get a juvenile if I go with a corn(don't want to deal with cut up pinkies:/)

XD I suppose this thread should be moved to the general sectionXD (Only if there is a problem, don't know how mods deal with this)

[albertagirl]

I fed the babies whole pinkies right from the start. I kept them in a 10 gallon until they were 9-12 months old and then moved them into their adult size vivs. I just made sure they had lots of hides and plant cover so they could move from warm to cool side without feeling too exposed, until they were a little bigger. I keep the cool side at room temp, and the warm side at about 85 degrees-ish. Ambient humidity with maybe the odd misting in the winter when they're in shed. There are a ton of good care sheets out there, a quick google search will give you a ton of info. That's another good thing about corns, info is plentiful!

[DDW]

I fed the babies whole pinkies right from the start. I kept them in a 10 gallon until they were 9-12 months old and then moved them into their adult size vivs. I just made sure they had lots of hides and plant cover so they could move from warm to cool side without feeling too exposed, until they were a little bigger. I keep the cool side at room temp, and the warm side at about 85 degrees-ish. Ambient humidity with maybe the odd misting in the winter when they're in shed. There are a ton of good care sheets out there, a quick google search will give you a ton of info. That's another good thing about corns, info is plentiful!

That sounds cool^.=.^ thanks:) tbh, I'm going for reverse posted if I can. However, I can't get a ten gal tank to keep a hatchling. Could I use a large kritter keeper inside the existing tank(in the center so that there is a temp gradiant)? Or put a lot of hides in it? (Like to where you would only barely see it if it moved with fake vines for foliage?

[eminart]

Just buy a plastic tub. Sit one end of it on the edge of the heat mat that you buy for the larger enclosure.

[Albert Clark]

When you see the snake that captures your eye and your heart you will know that's the one for you. Keep shopping until you feel that! It should be what you want.

[DDW]

What kind of plastic tub do you use? My mom is super paranoid about escapes.

And I'm looking for a good brand of heat mat that can be interchanged between enclosures(not adhered to the bottom ect and can be removed without damage to the heat mat. Or whatever you think is the best one for this case

[DDW]

When you see the snake that captures your eye and your heart you will know that's the one for you. Keep shopping until you feel that! It should be what you want.

To be honest with you, I was just wanting to see my options:)

[Lefitte]

For tubs, you can find something that has latches. Depending on the size, you might want something with a latch on each side such as my large tub [houses a rainbow boa]. https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13332980_10209748859063315_7958453985740067296_n.j pg?oh=52f5f581cbf24ad42ee7c60f469e16da&oe=580D9A12
Very escape proof, though it's not latched here because I'm in the process of feeding him. This one is made by Hefty. You can find them at Walmart type stores or Home Improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes [which is where I found this] for under $20. You'll need a drill to make ventilation holes.

As for heat, I use Ultratherm heat mats. It's basically heat tape made into a mat but I didn't want to deal with wiring so I went with the Ultratherm instead. Fairly cheap, comes in a variety of sizes, and I always attach that to a thermostat [I like Hydrofarm or similar styled thermostats for the small probes and reliability]. I tape my heat mat to the bottom of the cage with the tape of my choice and partially insulate it with styrofoam if needed. It can be removed and adjusted easily.

These are pretty much all things members here have suggested before which is how I learned about them. My brb's set up came to about $100 which included the storage bin, heat, thermostat, substrate, 4 hides, jungle vine, and three fake plants. It's a large bin though so I needed many many hides, lots of substrate, and lots of decor to make him feel safe. If you get a smaller bin and less decor it will be far less money. The thermostat [about $30] was still the most expensive part. I absolutely love my storage bin and almost don't want to upgrade haha.

As for snakes? You seem to be settled on a corn which might be a good idea. I don't see my king much and when I do she's either against the glass of the door or simply poking her head out to glare at me, wondering who's walking near her cage. She's also a huge drama queen and a brat. Don't have a corn so I can't comment much there. Hope I helped.

[DDW]

For tubs, you can find something that has latches. Depending on the size, you might want something with a latch on each side such as my large tub [houses a rainbow boa]. https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13332980_10209748859063315_7958453985740067296_n.j pg?oh=52f5f581cbf24ad42ee7c60f469e16da&oe=580D9A12
Very escape proof, though it's not latched here because I'm in the process of feeding him. This one is made by Hefty. You can find them at Walmart type stores or Home Improvement stores like Home Depot and Lowes [which is where I found this] for under $20. You'll need a drill to make ventilation holes.

As for heat, I use Ultratherm heat mats. It's basically heat tape made into a mat but I didn't want to deal with wiring so I went with the Ultratherm instead. Fairly cheap, comes in a variety of sizes, and I always attach that to a thermostat [I like Hydrofarm or similar styled thermostats for the small probes and reliability]. I tape my heat mat to the bottom of the cage with the tape of my choice and partially insulate it with styrofoam if needed. It can be removed and adjusted easily.

These are pretty much all things members here have suggested before which is how I learned about them. My brb's set up came to about $100 which included the storage bin, heat, thermostat, substrate, 4 hides, jungle vine, and three fake plants. It's a large bin though so I needed many many hides, lots of substrate, and lots of decor to make him feel safe. If you get a smaller bin and less decor it will be far less money. The thermostat [about $30] was still the most expensive part. I absolutely love my storage bin and almost don't want to upgrade haha.

As for snakes? You seem to be settled on a corn which might be a good idea. I don't see my king much and when I do she's either against the glass of the door or simply poking her head out to glare at me, wondering who's walking near her cage. She's also a huge drama queen and a brat. Don't have a corn so I can't comment much there. Hope I helped.

Oh, you definitely did help. I was always iffy about tubs and paranoid about escape artists. I see now what kind of container I should go for.

Get that stuff, come across a corn I want.
"Ma, I really like this corn here"
"where you gonna put it then? " (thinking I don't have space)
"oh, it won't take in more space. I have everything I nalwaysready"
"What!?"
"Yup, just need some pinks and I'm ready to go" no trouble otherwise"
"..."

A little off topic I know lol she still stands firm with no more snakes, but I'm sure if I make a really good case I'll be able to. Warming her up to the idea of going to Repticon again(darned things are always about 4-5 hours away from where I live)

Mini rant over XD

I'm pretty handy with a drill and there is always one on hand so not problem there:) I'll also check out those supplies you mentioned ^.=.^ I had found ultratherm on Amazon but wanted to see what others think of it. Bonus that you said something about it without me mentioning it:)

Thanks a bunch:)

[DDW]

What you said about insulation, do I need to get any special type of styrofoam or just a flat sheet?

Also, can the heat mat hang off the side if it is too big or should I invest in a smaller one until the snake is ready to move from the tub to the full size enclosure?(I found a nice tub on Amazon and plan to purchase it soon and would prefer to group everything together in one order)

[Humble308]

I buy flexwatt mats from Bean Farm and just wire and cut to the size I need. Super cheap and can be run on a rheostat or thermostat. Though if you don't want to mess with all that then UltraTherms are very popular as well.

Corn snakes are really awesome, though if want a snake with the feeding response similar to kings and more girthy than a corn you might consider Pitouophis. Bull snakes and gopher snakes are great pets and make for impressive display animals as well. Maybe El Ziggy will share a few pics of his formidable bulls! All the best

[DDW]

Flexwatt might be a goot alternative for a temp enclosure but I may stick with ultratherm. Idk.

I've never looked into bulls or gopher snakes. I'll have to since you said something though. Sounds interesting.

Thanks^.=.^

[Lefitte]

With the insulation, I'm mostly using it because my tank actually sits raised on a few square dowels instead of flat on the table and I didn't want to lose all the heat from the heat mat [though they do need a place to release heat]. I just grabbed a piece of styrofoam I had laying around from shipping something or whatever it was from? I think I might have actually bought a piece in the craft section at Walmart or something. Other people could probably tell you better. For Ultratherms, reptilebasics has them for cheaper than Amazon and other sizes as well, but if you're lumping stuff together it may not be the best option. I don't know about getting the bigger size and only placing the cage on part of it. I knew my storage bin would be used for 1-2 years so I didn't bother with a different mat. I figure whatever I don't need, I can resell later or keep on hand. Thinking about it now, my hoggie will eventually need a new tank and heat mat so this one can be repurposed for that after I buy my boa his adult cage which will need a bigger mat. Since I live in very warm climate and I was using a plastic bin, I went with a fairly small sized mat that ended up fitting perfectly under the bin. I'll probably turn his heat pad off in a couple days after he digests and leave it off until November because we are getting heat and moving into summer now and he won't need it at all. He could probably do without a heat mat at all because of where I live which is why I bought a fairly small one, covers only maybe 1/4 and he only uses it to digest and shed.

[DDW]

Hadn't really thought about buying from other places but now that you mention it, sounds like a good idea to check out, thanks for all the info^.=.^

[Lefitte]

Yeah they have some good prices there. If you do go with something from Reptilebasics, they have good prices on those black hides too. All of my snakes love those simple plastic black hides, so I'd suggest picking up one of those. I have a ton of different hides in all my cages for different temps, humidity ranges, sizes, ect.

[toddnbecka]

I've been buying Sterilite plastic tubs that have black lids locking clips on the sides. Lids are designed to fit down into the tub around the top rim, so there's no gap or even potential access for a snake to push it up. They work great for colubrids, though I wouldn't trust them as much for a larger boa or python.
The only heat mats I use are Ultratherms. They don't get hot enough to cook your critters regardless of whether you use a t-stat to regulate the temp, though they do get a little warmer than necessary for some species. I use one 11"x17" heat mat for 2 tubs or tanks, and if I don't have a t-stat hooked up to the mat I put a large (18"x18") ceramic tile between on top of the mat to moderate the heat transfer a bit. That keeps the inner surface of the tub around 84, works very well for my Jap rats.

[DDW]

I'm having a hard time finding a good size Ultratherm for the 36x18x18 terrarium:/ shouldn't the 6x17 suffice? or do you all have a better size suggestion?