Lookin for some learnin.

[albertagirl]

Hi! I come bearing gifts. Just kidding, I come bearing questions. But we can get to those later.
I've had snakes for 2 years now, I currently have 5 corn snakes, a california king snake, an african house snake, and a tricolor hognose. As you can see, I'm a colubrid fan, but also hope to get one or two carpet pythons at some point.

I definitely want a couple more, but I'm having trouble deciding what's next, so I come to you for educated advice. :)

I'm guessing pictures are always appreciated, so here are a few of mine!
Here are the corn snakes:

Ultramel anery - Ripley
35061

Cinder - Relic
35062

Fire - Raven
35063

Ghost stripe - Meridian
35064

Opal - Solace
35065

[macandchz]

welcome! your snakes are really beautiful. how about adding a ball python for variety? of course, i'll always say that!

[Charis]

Hello and welcome!

(I'm Tavia on CS, Charis everywhere else.)

[Rockydaddy2016]

Hi mate if you want something different why not try a royal python they stay small an come in come amazing morphs if that is what u r thinking of. Some boas stay rather small but get big enough to be impressive an yet stay handable
What morphs do u have in corns snakes?

[EL Ziggy]

Welcome and best wishes AG. Very nice critters you have there. I'm a big colubrid fan too but I have to admit that the carpets have taken over in my collection. They're great display snakes and lots of fun to keep. You can't go wrong with a carpet IMO.

[Tiny Boidae]

Welcome to the board! I've been a boid person for years until I got my hands on a Baird's Rat Snake recently, and I've definitely developed an affinity to them (just much more cage active and personable in my experience), but you do you! I can't wait to see more from you- those corns are stunning.

[albertagirl]

Thanks everyone! I was going to do a second post with the rest of my snakes, but since that was my first post ever I guess I needed to wait for it to be approved first? Not sure.

As for my next snake, I'd like to find a snake that gets a little bigger/thicker than a corn snake (but NOT a ball python, sorry guys) while still having relatively easy husbandry and a manageable temperament. Other than a black milk snake, which is definitely on the wishlist, but next to impossible to find in Canada, I've looked at:

-GOPHER SNAKES, these look awesome, but the information out there on them is spotty and conflicting. I'd love to hear your experiences on size and temperament. Sources I've found say 2.5 to 7 feet. That's quite the spread. They also say everything from good beginner snake to horrible beginner snake. I've only had snakes for 2 years, so I'd call myself a novice at best. Nevertheless, these are currently the leading option I think.

-RAINBOW BOAS, husbandry looks high maintenance.
-BROOKS/FLORIDA KINGS, these look cool but I'm not convinced they get much bigger than corn snakes on average. Can anyone show me a comparison?
-TEXAS RAT SNAKES, these appear to get longer, but do they get any thicker than corns? Also, temperament is apparently a concern?

Any and all opinions are appreciated!! I've done a ton of research, but there's nothing like talking to people who have/love them! Thanks!!

Anyway, here are my others snakes:

Desert phase california king snake - Cipher
35094

Cape african house snake - Eve
35095

35096

Tricolored hognose - Mercury
35097

35098

[Albert Clark]

Welcome and you don't seem to be a novice! Great collection and above all else you're reptile nation personell.

[albertagirl]

Hello and welcome!

(I'm Tavia on CS, Charis everywhere else.)
Hi! I thought I recognized your suboc there... and your house snakes on facebook. I swear I'm not stalking you! I'm just looking for somewhere I don't feel so guilty focusing on non-corns. Hahaha

welcome! your snakes are really beautiful. how about adding a ball python for variety? of course, i'll always say that!
Hi mate if you want something different why not try a royal python they stay small an come in come amazing morphs if that is what u r thinking of. Some boas stay rather small but get big enough to be impressive an yet stay handable
What morphs do u have in corns snakes?
I have cinder, ultramel anery, fire, ghost, and opal. I don't know why but I have no love for the ball pythons. I know, I know, everybody loves them! They just don't do it for me. *shrug*

Welcome and best wishes AG. Very nice critters you have there. I'm a big colubrid fan too but I have to admit that the carpets have taken over in my collection. They're great display snakes and lots of fun to keep. You can't go wrong with a carpet IMO.
Carpets are definitely something I've always wanted. They are in the future plans for sure!

Welcome to the board! I've been a boid person for years until I got my hands on a Baird's Rat Snake recently, and I've definitely developed an affinity to them (just much more cage active and personable in my experience), but you do you! I can't wait to see more from you- those corns are stunning.
I've noticed with my king that having a cage active snake is really fun. I have a bunch of snakes now that will all be within a relatively similar size bracket and I'd like to go a little bigger. I've not researched Baird's rats yet, what size do they mature at?

[Charis]

Baird's rats are awesome! They are on my wish list as well but for down the road.

I hear you, corns are my first love and I enjoy the other forum, but with 16 other species, really need this forum to talk about/get advice on keeping the others!

[Tiny Boidae]

They're generally around the size of a corn snake, although I've heard they get a tad bit longer but a tad bit thinner, but I don't have a corn snake to compare my juvenile to so that's complete speculation. They're pretty mild mannered and curious, but you just can't compare their colors to that of any North American Rat Snake, not even the Corn Snake. Gorgeous things, and they're slowly gaining traction in the hobby. Sunshine Serpents, where I got my boy at, has great representative pictures of these animals.

Loma Alta Baird's Rat Snake Elaphe bairdi (http://www.sunshineserpents.com/Captive%20Breeding%20Projects/Loma%20Alta%20Baird's%20Rat%20Snake.htm)

They won't get bigger like you want, but if you ever get another snake after this one... well you know what to get ;)

Edit: something to keep in mind, something that I've personally seen that I hadn't read about, is that they're not *quite* as hardy as corn snakes (even though they get compared left and right to them). I was taking my Baird's to the vet to treat an RI, and there was actually a guy next to me with an adult female that also had an RI when the temps dropped a few degrees when he was trying to brumate her. I just thought to warn you to be careful about that if you ever do get your paws on one.

[albertagirl]

They're generally around the size of a corn snake, although I've heard they get a tad bit longer but a tad bit thinner, but I don't have a corn snake to compare my juvenile to so that's complete speculation. They're pretty mild mannered and curious, but you just can't compare their colors to that of any North American Rat Snake, not even the Corn Snake. Gorgeous things, and they're slowly gaining traction in the hobby. Sunshine Serpents, where I got my boy at, has great representative pictures of these animals.

They won't get bigger like you want, but if you ever get another snake after this one... well you know what to get ;)

Edit: something to keep in mind, something that I've personally seen that I hadn't read about, is that they're not *quite* as hardy as corn snakes (even though they get compared left and right to them). I was taking my Baird's to the vet to treat an RI, and there was actually a guy next to me with an adult female that also had an RI when the temps dropped a few degrees when he was trying to brumate her. I just thought to warn you to be careful about that if you ever do get your paws on one.

Thanks! They do look amazing, I will keep them on my radar. And this is what I'm talking about, exactly. The things you don't find on a care sheet, but that owners discover.

[EL Ziggy]

You have a gorgeous collection AG. The Cal King, Fire, and Ghost Striped Corn are some real stunners. If carpets aren't at the top of the list I'd highly recommend a gopher/bull snake. My female bull snake will be 3 in October and she's already pushing 7ft. My 2 yo male is a little over 5ft but not as girthy as the girl. I think they're the perfect colubrid. Bigger than my kings, beasts at feeding time, good temperaments, and the husbandry is a breeze. There's lots of nice morphs too. I don't keep rat snakes but I've always wanted one of those Texas Leucistic Rat snakes. They're beautiful but I've heard they can be pretty fiesty too.

[albertagirl]

You have a gorgeous collection AG. The Cal King, Fire, and Ghost Striped Corn are some real stunners. If carpets aren't at the top of the list I'd highly recommend a gopher/bull snake. My female bull snake will be 3 in October and she's already pushing 7ft. My 2 yo male is a little over 5ft but not as girthy as the girl. I think they're the perfect colubrid. Bigger than my kings, beasts at feeding time, good temperaments, and the husbandry is a breeze. There's lots of nice morphs too. I don't keep rat snakes but I've always wanted one of those Texas Leucistic Rat snakes. They're beautiful but I've heard they can be pretty fiesty too.

Thank you! I can't wait to see everyone else's pictures too. :)
Carpets are high up there but not for this year. I still can't decide what subspecies/morph I want, and until I decide I can't buy. They're not quite as "space friendly" as corns, I can't have 5! :yes: But I'm really looking at Bredli or diamondxjungle. It's hard to find stuff without jag in it, it seems.

Wow, 7 feet! What do you feed her? What size cage do you keep her in? I don't have room for cages bigger than 4'x2', and definitely don't want to be feeding anything bigger than rats! I also have a tiny 6 pound dog that I don't want to end up as anybody's lunch.

[EL Ziggy]

AG- I keep my bulls in AP T8s (4x2x1) and it's just the right size. She eats a large rat, and sometimes a chick, every 10-14 days. I haven't found any xs rabbits for her yet. She's a total sweetheart too. She hissed at me and tagged me a time or two as a hatchling but she chilled out after a few meals. I do need some longer tongs now though. She comes lunging for food.

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0262-1_zpshndp3itp.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0262-1_zpshndp3itp.jpg.html)

http://i1319.photobucket.com/albums/t674/EL-Ziggy/Mobile%20Uploads/20160427_195224-1_zpsd4wkxvhv.jpg (http://s1319.photobucket.com/user/EL-Ziggy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160427_195224-1_zpsd4wkxvhv.jpg.html)

[albertagirl]

EL Z - thanks! I have many more questions about bulls, but I will read up and see what I can find. I'm sure my questions aren't new. That snake is enormous! She would be the maximum size I think I'd be prepared to house/feed/handle. Is that a typical size or is she unusually large?

Any other suggestions from anyone for species larger than a corn snake, but no larger than that amazing bull?

[toddnbecka]

Back when I was researching various snakes before getting back into keeping them I ran across the Dominican red mountain boas. Not too common (yet anyway) but there are usually some available. Body type and overall size is similar to a carpet python, but their disposition is very docile regardless of size or age. I now have 10, started with 2 pairs of yearlings (now over 2 years old) then ran across some sub adults last year that are now breeding size. None of them have ever bitten or struck, worst any have ever done is musk, and even that's not a common occurence. They don't need as high temps as carpet pythons, males max out around 6-7', females a little larger but not more than 9'. Males are more slender, though even the females aren't as bulky as my carpet pythons in general.
A couple recent pickups were a baby bull snake and a Dumeril's boa. The bull snake has proven to be the most handleable of my collection. He's always willing to be picked up, never flighty, has buzzed his tail briefly a couple times though. Bull snakes are known for hissing and bluffing, not biting, but I've never heard any noise from mine yet.
The Dumeril's boa is a sweetheart too, but she will get a bit bulkier than the bull snake.
My two carpet pythons are easy to handle, the first one was as mellow as a red tail boa from the start. The newer IJ was quite defensive at first, struck at anything that moved, but settled down considerably and now she's fine.

[albertagirl]

Back when I was researching various snakes before getting back into keeping them I ran across the Dominican red mountain boas. Not too common (yet anyway) but there are usually some available. Body type and overall size is similar to a carpet python, but their disposition is very docile regardless of size or age. I now have 10, started with 2 pairs of yearlings (now over 2 years old) then ran across some sub adults last year that are now breeding size. None of them have ever bitten or struck, worst any have ever done is musk, and even that's not a common occurence. They don't need as high temps as carpet pythons, males max out around 6-7', females a little larger but not more than 9'. Males are more slender, though even the females aren't as bulky as my carpet pythons in general.


Holy crap. I just looked these up and... I'm speechless... just wow. Thank you for introducing me to these! The chances of me finding one around here anytime soon are not great I suspect, but I will look into their care and husbandry just in case I run across one at the upcoming shows.

[toddnbecka]

I've seen one person selling babies at a couple shows, but your best bet is to find a breeder. Ironically, I was originally going to get a pair of yearlings from Tom Crutchfield, but he was in Canada when I contacted him. Turned out he had sold the yearlings but had babies available for the same price. Then I found a couple other people with yearling available, and got some from them. I got my first pair of yearlings from Paul Bodnar, he has a good number of breeding adults. No clue about shipping to Canada, but it should be workable on way or another. They turn up occasionally on the Kingsnake and Fauna classified forums. Alternatively, someone at a show may be able to locate one for you if you ask around enough, or try posting "wanted" ads on a couple of the classified forums.
Not all of them are the red phase, but they all have the same general disposition IME. Here's one of my larger females:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060795_zpswv8lmjhi.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060795_zpswv8lmjhi.jpg.html)

Young adult male, bred him this year. He has a white belly, unlike my red phase juvies, I'm wondering if he may turn out to be a calico as time goes by:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060655_zps3q3cjguw.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060655_zps3q3cjguw.jpg.html)

This is one of the 2+ year old juvies:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060721_zpsw2lzy7pi.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060721_zpsw2lzy7pi.jpg.html)

Their husbandry is pretty simple, I keep the larger ones in 4x2x2 plywood enclosures and 75 gallon tanks. Heat mat for belly heat satisfies they pretty well, though I do have RHP's for the breeding females to keep the ambient temps warmer. Cypress mulch to help maintain humidity, and they do like a large water bowl for soaking. One thing to be aware of with babies though, some will take mice and some will only start feeding on anoles, and have to be switched over. Best to get one that's feeding on mice (or rat pinks) to begin with

[albertagirl]

Thanks toddnbecka. They are soooo pretty! From what I've been able to find, they seem a little outside my current price range, but in future that may change. Also, maintaining a high humidity is a challenge I don't feel confident about. It's why I crossed rainbow boas off the list. I can't seem to find a care sheet for these guys that includes any info about what kind of humidity they like. What do you keep them at?
I try to keep my little tricolor hog at above 60% and so far I suck at it. He basically lives in his humid hide. From what I can find on them (they are another species with not a whole lot of info out there) they do okay with less when they're older, so at least I don't have to do this forever. Ambient humidity drops to around 10% for a lot of the year around here.

[pet_snake_78]

Cypress mulch should help with humidity. I actually have a hard time keeping humidity down in my tubs. Use cypress and a largish water bowl, use heat tape instead of lights, use tubs instead of enclosures, you'll be up to your ears in humidity lol but obviously not for arboreal species that way.

[albertagirl]

My hog probably could go into a tub without making much difference. I've had him since the beginning of January and I think I've seen him a total of twice, other than taking him out to feed/clean. I call his cage my "tank of dirt" because you'd never know I have a snake in there. I literally forget that I have him sometimes, so a display cage is pointless. I might try a tub for him.

[toddnbecka]

They don't need high humidity like rainbows, 60% is plenty. I use cypress mulch for substrate and pegboard for tank lids. I use foam board (peel off the paper on both sides) to cover part of the screen or pegboard tank tops to help maintain humidity in my aquarium setups. They do like to soak in the water bowls when they're getting close to shedding. Ceramic caves (actually medium and large cichlid stones) sitting on a tray of sphagnum moss for humid hides works well for the younger ones, the adults don't seem to worry about it as much. I don't cover their tops, the cypress seems to work fine for them. I've seen babies going for $200-250, but they'll come down in price as time goes on and they're bred in larger numbers. A few years ago I was breeding super red bristlenose pleco's, and breeding size adults were selling for $100 each, babies were around $20 each. Now they've become relatively easy to find, and the going price is much lower, sort of like ball pythons, lol.
For low humidity requirements a bull or gopher snake is tough to beat, though my thayeri kings seem to do just fine w/out humid hides or cypress mulch. My little bull snake is growing like a weed in a garden, eats like a python but has a faster metabolism, lol. I keep them and the Tangerine Hondo on aspen with ambient humidity around 30-40% and they all shed cleanly. If you use clear plastic tubs you can drill ventilation holes in the sides rather than the top to help maintain humidity too. My Jap rat snakes are in large Sterilite tubs, and though not quite a display setup they're still clearly visible. Much easier to move around for cleaning and such as well.
Carpet pythons are relatively inexpensive and pretty hardy as well, but they do grow to a fair size and like it warmer than the colubrids. My jungle/cross is about 1.5 years old, just shed today, and the shed is about 6' long. I'm sure it stretched a bit though. The smaller IJ also shed today, she's a year younger and much smaller, not even half that size. I paid around $75 each for them at reptile shows. Just a couple of random hatchlings (like normal BP's or BCI's) but they're great pets.

[kovacs01]

Love that little tricolor! Those are one of my all time favorite colubrids!

Anyway, if you are looking to branch out, DRMBs are indeed awesome. The other one that should be on your list is the candoia genus (commonly called Solomon Island or Isabel Island ground boas). They are very docile, max out at around 6 feet, and come in a wide variety of colors. Just make sure you get one that is CBB. The wild caught ones are finicky eaters from what I have seen, but not so with ones that have been raised to eat rodents.

[albertagirl]

They don't need high humidity like rainbows, 60% is plenty. I use cypress mulch for substrate and pegboard for tank lids. I use foam board (peel off the paper on both sides) to cover part of the screen or pegboard tank tops to help maintain humidity in my aquarium setups. They do like to soak in the water bowls when they're getting close to shedding. Ceramic caves (actually medium and large cichlid stones) sitting on a tray of sphagnum moss for humid hides works well for the younger ones, the adults don't seem to worry about it as much. I don't cover their tops, the cypress seems to work fine for them. I've seen babies going for $200-250, but they'll come down in price as time goes on and they're bred in larger numbers. A few years ago I was breeding super red bristlenose pleco's, and breeding size adults were selling for $100 each, babies were around $20 each. Now they've become relatively easy to find, and the going price is much lower, sort of like ball pythons, lol.
For low humidity requirements a bull or gopher snake is tough to beat, though my thayeri kings seem to do just fine w/out humid hides or cypress mulch. My little bull snake is growing like a weed in a garden, eats like a python but has a faster metabolism, lol. I keep them and the Tangerine Hondo on aspen with ambient humidity around 30-40% and they all shed cleanly. If you use clear plastic tubs you can drill ventilation holes in the sides rather than the top to help maintain humidity too. My Jap rat snakes are in large Sterilite tubs, and though not quite a display setup they're still clearly visible. Much easier to move around for cleaning and such as well.
Carpet pythons are relatively inexpensive and pretty hardy as well, but they do grow to a fair size and like it warmer than the colubrids. My jungle/cross is about 1.5 years old, just shed today, and the shed is about 6' long. I'm sure it stretched a bit though. The smaller IJ also shed today, she's a year younger and much smaller, not even half that size. I paid around $75 each for them at reptile shows. Just a couple of random hatchlings (like normal BP's or BCI's) but they're great pets.

You make it sound easy! 60% humidity is still a bit hard to maintain in the winter, but I'm going to try some of the tips you guys are giving me here and see how I do. $250 is not so bad, I thought I saw some prices like $800... factor in shipping and there's no way. I'll keep my eyes open for these guys, they look like the perfect size! If I can get a bead on someone who breeds them in Canada, they might be in my future. Thank you so much for the information about these guys, there isn't much out there.

Love that little tricolor! Those are one of my all time favorite colubrids!

Anyway, if you are looking to branch out, DRMBs are indeed awesome. The other one that should be on your list is the candoia genus (commonly called Solomon Island or Isabel Island ground boas). They are very docile, max out at around 6 feet, and come in a wide variety of colors. Just make sure you get one that is CBB. The wild caught ones are finicky eaters from what I have seen, but not so with ones that have been raised to eat rodents.

Thank you, he's so freaking cute. I wasn't really into the tri's until I held one in person and then I couldn't live without one. They're pretty rare around here, but there are two or three breeders with them now, and they seem to have multiple clutches per year, so I think there will be a lot more of them around soon. I just wish I saw him more.

I have looked at candoia, and I liked the ground boas, but the ones around here are TINY! Nowhere near 6 feet. I still have my eyes on them they are so cool looking, but I really do want something a little bit more substantial.
These are the size of their mature adult females of the only breeders who have them that I've found in Canada. The boys are even smaller.

35125

[shawkz0rz]

How long did it take before the moderators accepted your post ? I would like to join in discussions and introduce myself and ask questions but alas im stuck in the not approved yet limbo

[albertagirl]

How long did it take before the moderators accepted your post ? I would like to join in discussions and introduce myself and ask questions but alas im stuck in the not approved yet limbo

I think about a day and a half? Long enough for me to get impatient, but quick enough for me to laugh at my impatience afterwards. ;)

[albertagirl]

Well, I found the only breeder in Canada who has DRMB. They are *WELL* outside my price range. Oh well, maybe in a few years. LOL

I have also discovered that ALL gopher and bull snakes are illegal here.
So much for that idea. Looks like carpet pythons might be happening this year after all. ;)

[EL Ziggy]

Wow, pits are illegal there. That slurps :(. A carpet is still an excellent choice.

[kovacs01]

I have also discovered that ALL gopher and bull snakes are illegal here.


What about pine snakes?

[toddnbecka]

Wow, $800? I know where I'll be selling my babies after they're born and established, wonder how long it takes to get the export/import paperwork done? Or maybe I could smuggle them across the border, LOL.
Carpet pythons were on my "short list" before I ran across the DRMB's, and when I found the first one for such a good price at a reptile show I just couldn't pass it up.
Here's the wee bugger when I brought him/her (never did sort out the sex) home, on a 29 gallon fish tank, just a little critter about 18" long:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/529b6f23-98f9-4b7d-9876-4d93c81abbac_zpsa87af02c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/529b6f23-98f9-4b7d-9876-4d93c81abbac_zpsa87af02c.jpg.html)

I had a tough time getting it to start eating. Tried live fuzzy mice, finally got it to take a live hopper, then much later it occured to me it had probably been started on rat pinks...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060523_zps86c8471b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060523_zps86c8471b.jpg.html)

The yellow got much brighter with size and age, here's a pic from last summer:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060673_zpsj8jbcdzm.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060673_zpsj8jbcdzm.jpg.html)

Here's the mouse muncher raiding a tub of breeders a couple weeks ago. Took down 6 adults, mostly pregnant females, had the 7th (male) in coils. I'm not sure how that one was supposed to fit in the belly too, so it went to the Dumeril's boa. How many snakes could you easily take a freshly killed prey item from w/out any trouble?:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060885_zpsqnwn273p.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060885_zpsqnwn273p.jpg.html)
So full the head and neck were hanging out of the ceramic cave after I returned the bugger to the tank (40 breeder, the lid has been secured better since then.):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060889_zps9ijcs08e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060889_zps9ijcs08e.jpg.html)

That size ceramic cave comfortably holds 2 of the larger male DRMB's, or the currently pregnant female who's much larger around and about 6' long now. You can see the cypress mulch in the last pic. There's a large ceramic tile with a heat mat under it below the hides and the water bowl, keeps the water warm, for comfy soaking before sheds. Just did shed last night, all in one piece, not even rolled up. There's also an 80w RHP mounted to the pegboard lid on the other side of the tank, that's where this one spends most of the time basking. Will be moving into a 75 or 90 gallon tank soon, and eventually into a 4x2x2 enclosure. The smaller IJ carpet now occupies the 29, it has a 150w CHE over one end of the screen top for a basking spot. She also shed last night, couple rips but all one piece, not rolled up either. That, along with their good health and generally content behavior/disposition, tells me the setups are suitable. Though it seems that the larger one might think I need to bump up the prey size...

[albertagirl]

What about pine snakes?

There was a breeder at the show I went to today who directed me to another breeder I was unfamiliar with to answer a question I had. When I looked this other breeder up, he just happened to have black pines, leucistic and some kind of ghost looking southern pines (... I'd have to check but I think it said southern), and he said he's breeding pied pines. I had no idea pines came in pied! I asked him about it and he said all pits are restricted in Alberta except pines. So it looks like pines might be a go after all.

I need to do a little more research on their temperament, but I think their care is really similar to other pits. Any info on their personalities, care, or average size is appreciated!

[albertagirl]

Toddnbecka - I'm confused by that last picture. Is this snake a giant? He can only get his head and neck into a hide which holds 2 DRMB and can eat SIX mice? Wow! One thing I am discovering is that I am terrible at judging the true size of a snake from pictures and statistics. I feel like they are always smaller than they look in pictures... yet yours sounds like he went on a rampage like king kong. Haha.

One question I always wonder with carpets is whether it's better/desireable to have them in taller cages, or longer cages? Do yours spend a lot of time off the ground?

[toddnbecka]

Not a giant, but after eating 6 mice the head and neck were hanging out of the hide. The rest was curled up inside, and usually there's still room in there for the head and neck too. The opening is about the same diameter as a drinking glass. The recent shed was just about 6', same length as the larger DRMB's, but after downing all those mice this one was a bit bulkier than the pregnant female. I normally feed 2 good size adult mice, hoping to switch over to rats soon. I guess he felt he was being underfed, and wanted to pig out at the rodent buffet for a change. I skipped the next weekly feeding after that, he was in shed. Normally eats in shed, but he didn't need it this time.
My carpets never hang out on the substrate. Like the smaller DRMB's they have small shelves in the tanks to climb/lounge on. This one has a chunk of eggcrate packing foam on top of the shelf to widen and cushion the surface, and it's directly under the RHP for basking. That's where he spends most of his time during the day, coiled up and comfy, lol. Also has several large branches in the tank to climb on. I've found that semi-arboreal snakes like the carpets, DRMB's, and even my Everglades and Japanese rat snakes spend more time up off the floor if given the option. The female Jap rat is the exception, she seems to prefer an inverted plastic flower pot most of the time, while the male hangs out under a piece of eggcrate foam on the shelf. The cage doesn't need to be especially tall, just provide something suitable to climb and rest on and they're pretty satisfied IME. The Everglades rat has several large branches running the width of her tank, and while she does spend some time in the cave by day she typically lays up on the branches at night.
The DRMB's that are housed in 33 long aquariums have a bit of extra vertical space. I cut out holes in the pegboard top on one side of each tank and set a 10 gallon tank upside down over that. They have a pvc hide up in the "loft" and a couple of silk plants stuck in the holes of the pegboard for additional cover.

[Andy_G]

There was a breeder at the show I went to today who directed me to another breeder I was unfamiliar with to answer a question I had. When I looked this other breeder up, he just happened to have black pines, leucistic and some kind of ghost looking southern pines (... I'd have to check but I think it said southern), and he said he's breeding pied pines. I had no idea pines came in pied! I asked him about it and he said all pits are restricted in Alberta except pines. So it looks like pines might be a go after all.

I need to do a little more research on their temperament, but I think their care is really similar to other pits. Any info on their personalities, care, or average size is appreciated!

That'd be Len Mastaler of Stampede Reptiles i'm guessing. I believe it's his first year propducing pituophis but he is a great guy with a very nice collection.

All pits have very similar temperment, size and behaviour. Pine snakes would be a great choice!

[albertagirl]

Thank you! This is the information that's tough to find in care sheets. I've read a whole bunch of them, but still feel like I hardly know anything about these guys. This fills in some of the gaps.
And now I understand what you were saying about your carpet not fitting all the way into that hide. No wonder with thanksgiving dinner for 2 stuffed in his belly! Haha. I would have been freaking out, eating like that probably would have killed a corn snake!