Snakes keep dying

[snakesir]

Hello...
Sorry to just barge straight into the Help thread. But I need help. :P
Eh... I'm a 4-time ball python owner, all babies, all normal morph. All just gotten from the same pet store, treated the same, taken care of the same - plastic bin with paper towels as substrate (we're dirt poor, heh heh) and fed frozen-thawed prekilled pinky mice... WHEN they eat of course.
Thing is... they've all died. Inexplicably, with only one of them showing any sign of illness previously! I'm fearing I'm just a bad ball python owner, but I love the little things so much. I don't want to keep bringing them into the home only for them to die! T_T
Can you point out what I'm doing wrong?

I'll happily put up any info you need - including, with some difficulty, a photo of the newest snake "Caillou"...

[pet_snake_78]

Need more info, first off I'd buy from a breeder not a pet store. Second what are the details of how you're keeping them.... what kind of heat, tstat, substrate, how often do you change the water and clean the cage, etc. I'd throw those plastic bins and anything that had contact with the snakes out and get new ones. What temps are the rooms, any possible drafts sitting next to heater, etc?

[snakesir]

Breeder/pet store: We do not have enough money. The only way we've managed to get any snakes is reptile rallies.
Large, I'd say 3ft by 2ft by oh 2 feet deep? Tupperware-style plastic bin, modified paint strainer grid (never used) screwed into the lid of the bin, which latches on both sides. Paper towels laid sideways and folded over as the best substrate we could get. Water is from a filter on our tap and we drink the same water, we put it in half an Olive Garden takeout container and I try to keep it full. As for lighting, I don't know exactly how to say it, nor do I know the specifications... It's a metallic lamp fixture set on top of the metal grid part of the container. I will check the bulb later but it is what the manager recommended (and she owns like 3 or more full grown snakes).
The house, which all the snakes seemed to enjoy, is a half of a smaller Olive Garden takeout container with an entrance cut out. Ever snake would immediately slither back in there when returned to the tank. <3 And... that's about it. First two snakes came home with mites but that was quite easily taken care of, submerged everything but the snake itself in bleach for an hour and covered the snake itself in light organic vegetable oil except for his nose, adorable little thing loved it... and never saw mites again.
The second snake showed some signs of distress prior, but it was only the occasional little squeak that I didn't like, that my first snake did not do. He was the only snake that was belly up when we found him...
Oh. And feeding. Pinky mice, frozen/thawed and prekilled. -_- Only the first snake ate. Ever. Stupid little things, what do they want, a perfectly seasoned mouse... but I'm sure you guys know THAT pain.

[trailblazer295]

At the risk of sounding like the harsh one if finances are as tight as you imply then pets in general and specifically reptiles might not be the best choice.

[travesty]

If you never fed them anything but pinky mice I'm sure they all starved to death. I bet they don't even recognize that as food since that's so small. The meal needs to be about the size of the largest part of the snake, not just what you think will fit in their mouth.

[serpentgirl123]

If you never fed them anything but pinky mice I'm sure they all starved to death. I bet they don't even recognize that as food since that's so small. The meal needs to be about the size of the largest part of the snake, not just what you think will fit in their mouth.

I can't believe I missed that--pinky mice for a bp??? Those poor snakes. :(

I agree with you--probably starved to death and/or other issues. I would seriously reconsider getting another snake/animal until you can properly care for it (aka making sure to do tons of research in that particular animals' husbandry/care), being more financially ready, and probably looking into a breeder vs a pet store.

[Albert Clark]

Wow, didn't they lose wight if they even ate those mice pinks? If so, that would be a sign of illness. Or at least a failure to gain any weight?

[macandchz]

dear snakesir; before you attempt another try at snake raising, check out all the info you can on how to raise them-temps ,humidity, feeding, etc. when you think you are ready to try again, only buy 1 at a time. if you get it at a pet store, make sure their vet gives it a good bill of health. i bought mac at petco. he had mites and i wouldn't accept him until they got rid of them. cleanliness is everything. financially, this may not be the pet for you. it takes a lot to keep them healthy. think it over before you try again.

[Aaron_S]

Hello...
Sorry to just barge straight into the Help thread. But I need help. :P
Eh... I'm a 4-time ball python owner, all babies, all normal morph. All just gotten from the same pet store, treated the same, taken care of the same - plastic bin with paper towels as substrate (we're dirt poor, heh heh) and fed frozen-thawed prekilled pinky mice... WHEN they eat of course.
Thing is... they've all died. Inexplicably, with only one of them showing any sign of illness previously! I'm fearing I'm just a bad ball python owner, but I love the little things so much. I don't want to keep bringing them into the home only for them to die! T_T
Can you point out what I'm doing wrong?

I'll happily put up any info you need - including, with some difficulty, a photo of the newest snake "Caillou"...

Breeder/pet store: We do not have enough money. The only way we've managed to get any snakes is reptile rallies.
Large, I'd say 3ft by 2ft by oh 2 feet deep? Tupperware-style plastic bin, modified paint strainer grid (never used) screwed into the lid of the bin, which latches on both sides. Paper towels laid sideways and folded over as the best substrate we could get. Water is from a filter on our tap and we drink the same water, we put it in half an Olive Garden takeout container and I try to keep it full. As for lighting, I don't know exactly how to say it, nor do I know the specifications... It's a metallic lamp fixture set on top of the metal grid part of the container. I will check the bulb later but it is what the manager recommended (and she owns like 3 or more full grown snakes).
The house, which all the snakes seemed to enjoy, is a half of a smaller Olive Garden takeout container with an entrance cut out. Ever snake would immediately slither back in there when returned to the tank. <3 And... that's about it. First two snakes came home with mites but that was quite easily taken care of, submerged everything but the snake itself in bleach for an hour and covered the snake itself in light organic vegetable oil except for his nose, adorable little thing loved it... and never saw mites again.
The second snake showed some signs of distress prior, but it was only the occasional little squeak that I didn't like, that my first snake did not do. He was the only snake that was belly up when we found him...
Oh. And feeding. Pinky mice, frozen/thawed and prekilled. -_- Only the first snake ate. Ever. Stupid little things, what do they want, a perfectly seasoned mouse... but I'm sure you guys know THAT pain.

I'm sorry these snakes have passed away on you.

I'd like pics of your set up please if possible. It sounds okay from what you've described.

You're going to need to invest in a couple extra instruments though. The first is a temp gun or digital temp reader of some sort. You need to spend the money here as the cheap ones may not give an accurate reading and throws everything off.

Next you're going to need to keep your hands off the snakes until they eat regularly in their own enclosures. It will not make an aggressive snake, I assure you.

Then, once the temps and everything and set you will offer a rat pup once a week until it's eaten 3 times in a row. Make sure it's either frozen/thawed or live. Whichever the snake is already used to. If frozen then make sure it's fully thawed out then I run the tap hot and stick the head under it for 10 seconds to warm it up. I use tongs to feed all of my snakes.

My guess is that your temps are off and the snakes aren't comfortable eating in their enclosures. Your bins may be too large for the babies to feel secure enough to eat. You will need multiple small, tight fitting hides for one. Also only keep 1 in each bin. Do not group house them.

[smoothie4l]

Honestly, if you say you're "to broke" to buy a healthy snake and instead to waste money buying more and more sickly snakes from the same pet store.
You shouldn't be buying more.
Get a little piggy bank going to save up some real money and in the mean time look up husbandry, it appears your problem lies in what you have been attempting to feed them. Maybe try a frozen thawed rat pup(?)

[MDT]

this has got to be a troll post...

[SnoopySnake]

If you can't even afford buying from a proper breeder, how are you going to pay for any vet bills that come up.....

How long did you have each of them before they died?

[serpentgirl123]

this has got to be a troll post...


I have begun to the think the same thing. The person hasn't come back since the post was made nor made any attempt (yet) to clarify what happened or discuss any of the advice/concern that has been offered.

[snakesir]

I have begun to the think the same thing. The person hasn't come back since the post was made nor made any attempt (yet) to clarify what happened or discuss any of the advice/concern that has been offered.

For your information, my mom has cancer and we have been dealing with THAT.

I have post-traumatic stress disorder and the snake really helps me. I am calmer and have less flashbacks on the days I have held the snake.

And I should have known all I would get if I came to a forum like this is people shouting I should not have a snake. By the way, now I finally understand why they were not eating - thank you. Never again do I trust a saleswoman, it's led me wrong too many times.

Regardless of how unkind your answers might have been. I will now try to provide the best care for one possible -_-, the first one by the way I had for several months.

[Andy_G]

For your information, my mom has cancer and we have been dealing with THAT.

I have post-traumatic stress disorder and the snake really helps me. I am calmer and have less flashbacks on the days I have held the snake.

And I should have known all I would get if I came to a forum like this is people shouting I should not have a snake. By the way, now I finally understand why they were not eating - thank you. Never again do I trust a saleswoman, it's led me wrong too many times.

Regardless of how unkind your answers might have been. I will now try to provide the best care for one possible -_-, the first one by the way I had for several months.

Although you may feel some of the comments to be quite harsh so far, I think everyone here has actually been quite easy on you. You must recognize where everyone is coming from. It's a bit unfair to expect to have everyone entirely dismiss the deaths of these animals and help you because you failed to make any considerable effort to look into why things happened after the FIRST one died....you've let it happen 3 times and only now are you seeking what you should have before you purchased your first. Come on.

None of this is our fault, neither is it the fault of the individual who sold you the snakes, nor is it the fault of the snakes. It falls on you, but you have taken a great first step here and are on the right track, but please follow the advice given and although I understand that your keeping of snakes grounds you and helps your PTSD, please consider everything mentioned here. Think hard about whether a pet snake of any kind is truly the right choice for you and be sure to also consider your situation and the health/welfare of the animal before you take anything else on as well. Is it fair to get an animal that you can't care for properly (whether it be finances, personal, or otherwise)? Maybe it would be better to find somewhere that you could volunteer to take care of animals? You could learn in person how to do things correctly while also easing your PTSD.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I agree with Andy_G. These are living things, not toys. They deserve a happy healthy life, if you do not have the funds to care for them, it's not fair to the animals for you to own them.

If you are able to properly care for them now with the information given to you, that's one thing. But if you have to sacrifice necessities for your snakes because you can't afford it, it's best to skip on them. I sympathize with your PTSD, but that doesn't give you the right to play with something else's life.

[Aaron_S]

For your information, my mom has cancer and we have been dealing with THAT.

I have post-traumatic stress disorder and the snake really helps me. I am calmer and have less flashbacks on the days I have held the snake.

And I should have known all I would get if I came to a forum like this is people shouting I should not have a snake. By the way, now I finally understand why they were not eating - thank you. Never again do I trust a saleswoman, it's led me wrong too many times.

Regardless of how unkind your answers might have been. I will now try to provide the best care for one possible -_-, the first one by the way I had for several months.

Putting on my moderator hat - If you feel that this community isn't what you were looking for then perhaps it's best to find one more suitable to your needs. All the best with your PTSD and your mother.


Aaron the member speaking - I was polite and nice enough to respond to your messages and give advice without making any judgements. Yet you come back and disregard everything said and magically (Yes I fully believe magically) solved the issue of multiple snakes not eating. You fail to tell us what it actually is so my guess is that you haven't solved anything. Good luck to you in the future, you will need it.

Mod hat back on - I am here to protect my forum and members and I feel they've been pretty good and have gone easy on you. I really like the suggestion of volunteering with animals to help with the PTSD. It is a 100% win/win for all parties involved and will cost you nothing but time.

[SerpentineDream]

Before all else, pick up a book on the care of ball pythons. There are also free care sheets available on the internet, and Kindle books cheap on Amazon. Reptiles Magazine usually has great free care guides on their website. Go to reptilesmagazine.com and search for ball pythons. Read the forum here - it's a wealth of information. Ask questions here - people are upset because the little ones starved due to lack of knowledge when knowledge is the first item you should have picked up... before a tub, heat mat, thermostat, etc. And it's free. But we'll still help.

Spend some time looking up all you can about the care of ball pythons, ask your questions, make sure you have a proper setup (it doesn't have to be expensive, but it does need the essential things a ball python must have to survive), and then try again armed with that knowledge. Normal ball pythons are not expensive and if you look around you may find that you can get one from a breeder for about the same price as Petco if not cheaper. At least insist that their onsite vet checks out your critter before you being it home, and like macnchz said, don't accept one with mites - make them fix the problem first.

Non-negotiable items you will need:

- Appropriately-sized tub for the animal you choose. Air holes drilled for ventilation, and clips to secure the lid. Ball pythons are strong so you might replace your current tub with a weatherproof locking tub (they have them at Walmart) for security. It's not a bad idea to replace your current tub anyway in case the previous occupants were ill.
- Heat mat installed under one end of the tub. Should take up 1/3 of the floor so your snake can choose to be warmer or cooler as needed.
- You must have a thermostat to control the heat mat (the Jump Start, sold on Amazon, will work fine and runs about $28). Uncontrolled heat is dangerous. Don't skip this.
- You must have a thermometer / hygrometer to monitor temperature and humidity. Probe can go into the warm hide (don't rely on the thermostat readout). A second thermometer should monitor the cool end. For the cool end, a stickup thermometer is adequate. Keep close tabs on your temps so you can intervene quickly if necessary. Too cold is bad, and too hot is deadly.
- Water bowl with fresh water available at all times on the cool end. Any appropriately-sized container will work but a heavier one such as a stoneware crock is best so it can't be easily tipped over. A snake on wet paper towels is not a happy snake. Or a healthy snake.
- At least 2 hiding places. One on the warm end and one on the cool end for sure, and one in the middle too is great. Snake should not have to choose between feeling safe and thermoregulation. Can be cheap or free, like a plastic flower pot turned over with an entry hole cut into it, or a cereal box cut to make a little fort. Really small snakes often like TP or paper towel tubes. A snake that feels unsafe will be stressed out and often not eat.
- Paper towels are OK as substrate as long as they are replaced every time the snake soils them.
- You must provide appropriately-sized prey. Ball pythons usually start out eating rat pups. Rats are more expensive than mice, so if the cost of food is problematic consider a corn snake. They are great pets and the largest prey item they will need as an adult is a medium adult mouse. Baby corn snakes start off with pinky mice. They begin life looking drab, but their colors come in as they grow up and they are available in a rainbow of color morphs. They are also often less expensive to purchase than ball pythons, depending on the morph, and colubrids tend to be a hardy lot.
- Set a little bit of money aside every paycheck to save up for an emergency vet visit. If and when your snake needs help, you must be able to pony up for veterinary care. Look around beforehand for a vet who sees reptiles - not all vets do, so having one picked out in advance is smart. If you find more than one you can compare their rates too.

You certainly don't have to be made of money, but if you can't provide at least the above bare essentials, don't get a snake. Dead snakes won't help you, and it's not fair to them.

Consider it a hard lesson learned, take the advice (criticism and all) and best of luck with whatever you decide.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks SD. That was well said.
@ snakesir: We are all concerned about the health and welfare of the animals here on SNAKES forum. We are not discounting your priorities nor are we trying to throw you under the bus. i just want you to know we are trying to help you and the situation with the snakes.