2016 Pastel het pied..

[Albert Clark]

Day 10 of the incubation and i went in to vent the tubs and add water to the incubation medium. I wanted to of course check the integrity of the eggs and i am excited to report they all are looking viable. Temps and humidity at 88.3f and 99% respectively. Quickly resealed tubs with the press and seal and lids.

[Albert Clark]

Excuse me , these are pastel het pastel pieds. Just thought to qualify that.

[mysticmoon]

How exciting! Please post pics when the babies hatch :)

[Albert Clark]

How exciting! Please post pics when the babies hatch :)

Thank you mm! It is exciting to me also. I will put up the pics when the hatchlings emerge.

[EL Ziggy]

Looking forward to seeing all the pretty babies AL. ;)

[Albert Clark]

Looking forward to seeing all the pretty babies AL. ;)

Thanks EL! I think they are going to be pretty as well. The father has that high Nerd type yellow coloration. The mom was a cutie as a hatchling but has browned out a bit. But with the pastel pied gene in there her babies should be interesting.

[Tiny Boidae]

Oh definitely keep us up to date on the cuties patooties! Just one little thing: why do you have that one egg separated from the clutch like that? Is there something wrong with it?

[Albert Clark]

Thank you TB! They will be cuties for sure. But yeah this single egg was a roll out from the clutch. However it candle well with good vein structure. The other eggs were already stuck together when I lifted them out of the tub. Two eggs shortly separated but I had that tub opened and ready so I just put them in. The clothespins are there for stabilization bc that roll out egg is by itself and may roll if I go in to check the substrate or move the tub. But no, that egg is fine.

[Albert Clark]

Day 41 today and i vented the tub on these little pastel het pied eggs. They all look very healthy and bright. Keep you posted.... Thanks.

[Albert Clark]

Hey guys, today is day 50 for this clutch of pastel het pied hatchlings. The eggs are now looking like this as of yesterday when I vented the tub.

[Albert Clark]

The first pic is that roll out egg which seems to be fine. Here are the other six eggs.

[Albert Clark]

Can't wait to fill up my hatchling rack. Pastel 100% het pied.

[macandchz]

we'll be waiting for the hatching! hey, al. a question. can a snake have twins? is there ever 2 hatchlings to 1 egg?

[Albert Clark]

Very good question mac. I believe but have no proof that twins are possible and have been produced in the past. I actually posed that in a statement on a different site and the genetic expert said he had never heard of twins in a single egg. I'm sure there is anecdotal reports of such I will get back to you on that. Lol.

[chairman]

Just do a Google image search for "ball python twin" and you'll get several examples to look at. I'm not sure that I have ever heard of identical twins, though.

[SWDK]

we'll be waiting for the hatching! hey, al. a question. can a snake have twins? is there ever 2 hatchlings to 1 egg?

Check out this video from Prehistoric Pets. It will answer your question and then some.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SK7HimuvIfQ

[Albert Clark]

Thanks for that video footage Dave. I was making a statement previously with OWAL Reptiles and they said they had never heard of twins in one egg before. This ( identical twins )in one egg has been previously documented but I can't recall where or who. It was ball pythons at that time. Thanks.

[macandchz]

i checked out the images of twins and i'm convinced. thanks for the info!

[Albert Clark]

i checked out the images of twins and i'm convinced. thanks for the info!

I have never seen triplets in one egg from ball pythons though. These are retics but still amazing! Wow!

[Albert Clark]

Well, unfortunate turn of events with this pastel pied clutch! For some reason the tub housing the six eggs spiked up to 103F degrees and I noticed it this morning. I have no idea how long the temp was like that, the other tub with the single egg roll out was at 88.7F. Checked the tub temps and humidity on Monday 6/20/16 when I vented the tub. I have checked the connections and everything seems in place. Seems like it was in the tub only and not a electrical issue. I took the lid off and added 100% cypress mulch to the interior of the incubator and got the tub temp down to 91.2F. IDK if any damage was done to the hatchlings yet as none of them have pipped and this is day #55.

[RAD House]

Sorry to hear about this Albert. I know you put a lot of time and energy into your animals, and you would rightfully upset if something were to happen to them. Hopefully the clutch will be alright.

[Andy_G]

That is truly unfortunate Albert. Hope all as well. I guess you'll know in a few more days.

[Albert Clark]

Sorry to hear about this Albert. I know you put a lot of time and energy into your animals, and you would rightfully upset if something were to happen to them. Hopefully the clutch will be alright.
Thanks MC, I do and I did but I think what happened is at day 52 and beyond the eggs start generating their own heat by moving and writhing inside the egg. So the heat probably needed to be turned down on the thermostat. When I checked on Monday the temps were at 87.2F with the humidity at 99%. Incubator was set at 89.0F. Thanks .
That is truly unfortunate Albert. Hope all as well. I guess you'll know in a few more days.

Yep! I guess I will once my eyes clear from the tears. Thanks for the well wishing Andy. :sad::sad:

[Albert Clark]

Got the temp in the six egg tub to go down to 88.7F after leaving the lid off but keeping the humidity barely @ 79% with the cypress mulch. Can't say I see real movement in the eggs but I will be checking every half hour or so. All my previous clutches began pipping at day 53 or so. This is rather disturbing. Hoping for the best but expecting the worse. Fingers and toes crossed they will be ok.

[valkea]

Fingers crossed they're okay! That's so heartbreaking. Hopefully they will start pipping soon with no issues.

[Albert Clark]

Fingers crossed they're okay! That's so heartbreaking. Hopefully they will start pipping soon with no issues.

Thanks val, I appreciate those sentiments! It's disturbing bc it certainly wasn't the incubator malfunctioning. This was a tub temp issue that arose maybe due to the tub type along with the press and seal and lid being too much as day 55 drew near? We'll see. :confused:

[Albert Clark]

Well the consensus was to cut the eggs and after adjusting and readjusting the thermostat and stabilizing the temps, all the hatchlings are alive and moving. I was also told by Pit on the prowl to either candle and look for movement or cut. So I candled first, saw movement and was satisfied with that. I decided to cut this morning as a additional safeguard. Thanks for all the help guys.

[Albert Clark]

Well, temps and humidity are both stable 88.7F and 99%. Hatchlings all alive and looking fantastic with that pastel coloration. None of them have stuck their head out yet but I'm sure they will soon. Thanks.

[Piggybuns]

I'm really glad things turned out okay for you!

Quick question about "egg cutting" as you mentioned there. Is that a last resort, and how late in the game can you do that? I kind of figured that'd be really dangerous at any point. I have no intention of breeding or handling eggs, I'm just genuinely curious! c.

[Albert Clark]

I'm really glad things turned out okay for you!

Quick question about "egg cutting" as you mentioned there. Is that a last resort, and how late in the game can you do that? I kind of figured that'd be really dangerous at any point. I have no intention of breeding or handling eggs, I'm just genuinely curious! c.

Thanks Pb! Most times it is a last resort when the eggs are perceived to be "at risk". There are ages where cutting is deemed safer and those ages are between 55 days or one of the hatchlings has already pipped. Any cutting between 50 and 54 days is considered more risky as the hatchlings are more underdeveloped. Some people do cut at those times bc they have reason to believe there are other life threatening issues. After 55 days and beyond is the safer age to consider cutting. It is dangerous at any time due to potential problems like infection or cutting a major vessel. Although there are some specifics to follow when cutting that make it safer. There also are those that cut eggs bc they are impatient and may be expecting a specific morph.

[Andy_G]

Sounds promising! At this point I am sure they'll be fine.

I'm wondering if there was in fact a brief unnoticed spike that elevated the temps in the incubator. I don't think the eggs themselves can give off heat and the temps would hold for much longer in the bin than the rest of the incubator. Kind of grasping at straws as to why it happened...

[Albert Clark]

Sounds promising! At this point I am sure they'll be fine.

I'm wondering if there was in fact a brief unnoticed spike that elevated the temps in the incubator. I don't think the eggs themselves can give off heat and the temps would hold for much longer in the bin than the rest of the incubator. Kind of grasping at straws as to why it happened...
Thanks Andy! If that were the case wouldn't both tubs temps have spiked? Remember the tubs are sealed with Press and seal and a tight fitting lid, both tubs. Could it be the thermometer? I continued to use the same thermometer as I went through the decreasing temperature modalities and the thermometer was keeping the exact temps. I have since swapped out that thermometer. I know the eggs as they near pipping by writhing and pushing on the interior of the egg with their egg tooth do generate a small amount of heat. Not 103.0F though. It could be the incubator I guess though. Just why only one tub and not both??

[Andy_G]

If one is positioned higher than the other a small difference would be present, but it shouldn't be that drastic of a difference. Simple friction during hatching will definitey generate very minute heat but I am guessing it would result in tenths of a degree difference if not completely negligible. It could definitely be the thermometer. Wish I could help you figure out what happened! I have been LUCKY enough to never have an issue with temps while incubating, but that's mostly because I have hatched most colubrids at snake room air temp or boas which birth live. Only really used an incubator for a handful of boids and some oddball stuff early on.

[Albert Clark]

If one is positioned higher than the other a small difference would be present, but it shouldn't be that drastic of a difference. Simple friction during hatching will definitey generate very minute heat but I am guessing it would result in tenths of a degree difference if not completely negligible. It could definitely be the thermometer. Wish I could help you figure out what happened! I have been LUCKY enough to never have an issue with temps while incubating, but that's mostly because I have hatched most colubrids at snake room air temp or boas which birth live. Only really used an incubator for a handful of boids and some oddball stuff early on.
I guess this may go down as a mystery bc there are a few different possibilities. This is a first for me with any temperature issues during incubation so it is quite unsettling but I do feel a lot better now that things are back to normal for now. I know I am not out of the woods with these guys as temperature related issues can manifest in hatchlings later on as they mature. I guess the good thing is that they were at the 55+ day. Hopefully there will be no residual bad effect.

[Albert Clark]

Hey guys, just realised that the whole problem here was the malfunctioning digital thermometer I was using. So I don't think there ever really was a temperature spike. It was just the opposite! When I temp gunned the eggs they are all sitting around the 83.5F range.Duhhhhh. I don't know why I didn't think to use the temp gun before now. So by lowering the thermostat settings I imagine slowed the progression of the hatchlings to pip.thermostat turned back up to 89.0F and already I see bubbling in the eggs and increased movement. What a roller-coaster! Just hoping the hatchlings turn out ok.

[SWDK]

That's great news Albert. I'm sure they'll be just fine. It's funny how we sometimes overlook the simple things and go right for the larger and more complex issues.

[Sylphie]

Great to hear that! Hope all the babies will be healthy! <3

[Albert Clark]

That's great news Albert. I'm sure they'll be just fine. It's funny how we sometimes overlook the simple things and go right for the larger and more complex issues.
Thanks SW, it is great news! Incubator working fine and temps seem great. Replacement thermometer reading 88.3F in the tub but I am keeping the lid off and no press and seal.
Great to hear that! Hope all the babies will be healthy! <3

Thanks Sylph, you know I appreciate your input always.

[valkea]

Yay! Glad to hear they're all alive and well. When you get a chance you should post pics.

[Albert Clark]

Yay! Glad to hear they're all alive and well. When you get a chance you should post pics.
Thanks val! I'm happy, and grateful for all the help I received here. I will post a couple of recent photos tomorrow. I just put press and seal back on the tubs w/o the lids today. So I will give it a day so as to limit the opening and closing of the bator at this point.

[Albert Clark]

Yay! Glad to hear they're all alive and well. When you get a chance you should post pics.

Hey val, opened the bator a couple of times today to temp gun each egg for exactness and was glad to see all eggs holding steady at between 88.3F - 88.7F in the six egg tub. The roll out single egg temp is at 87.9F. Both humidity levels are at 99% with press and seal and no lid. I cut them all on 6/23/ 16 in the early morning hours. All the eggs have movement and living pastels inside. No heads have shown and tomorrow is day 60. Thermostat staying on the 88.0F mark and I am hoping for the best. Thanks to everyone for the advice and help. This is what they look like now

[Albert Clark]

Well, checking on the eggs and staying on top of the temps and humidity. I can see that they all are moving. I suspect mainly that they are absorbing the yolk and will be emerging soon. Today is day 61.

[richardhind]

its really exciting when its near due date,cant wait to see the pics

[Sylphie]

Yaaay, new cute balls soon! <3

[Albert Clark]

its really exciting when its near due date,cant wait to see the pics
Thank you rich! And it is very exciting. Hoping to post the pics soon as they are completely out.
Yaaay, new cute balls soon! <3

Thanks Sylph! It's been a long time coming. They have to be stronger cause they're still here. Oh! And cuter. Lol. ;)

[Albert Clark]

Hey guys , I had the thread down as 2014 bc the dam is a 2014 female who laid her virgin clutch and was a 2014 purchase from Petco. The hatchlings will be 2016's. It's ok though. On another note, I am seeing quite a bit of movement in these eggs tonight. I think we will have a appearance tonight or by tomorrow. Keep you posted. Oh! Tail sticking up out of the roll out egg! That's a first.

[valkea]

Awesome! Thanks for sharing a pic! That's hilarious that there's a tail sticking out. Fingers crossed you get some little ones out soon.

I love reading the threads in this portion of the forum. I plan on aiming for my first clutch sometime in the next year. IF they cooperate it'll be near the beginning of fall. Time will tell I suppose.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks val! Well, I don't believe the roll out was the first to shed the egg. Wow, he's really cute. Three others are sticking their heads out then back in. Rinsed off roll out and set him up in the rack on moist paper towels. Just waiting for the rest to make their way completely out. Breeding, the waiting game but the most rewarding part of the hobby. Nothing beats a new life poking it's head out of the egg. You will love it val. Lol. I will post the pics after they all emerge!

[Ian of Oldham]

how the eggs doing and when can we see the little one

[valkea]

Sounds great! I'll keep an eye out for more pics once they're all ready! I'm wanting to breed my western hognose and from what I've seen it's still possible this time of year. Just waiting for my female to shed.

[Albert Clark]

how the eggs doing and when can we see the little one
Thanks Ian! They are all alive and well. There are two that completely came out of their eggs. The other 5 are going back and forth with their heads in the egg.
Sounds great! I'll keep an eye out for more pics once they're all ready! I'm wanting to breed my western hognose and from what I've seen it's still possible this time of year. Just waiting for my female to shed.

Thanks val! Do you plan on cooling the hoggies first before you pair them up? That's a great time to pair them up right after the female sheds though. Baby hogs are so cute!

[valkea]

My male was cooled this past winter so hopefully he's good to go. If not I'll just wait until next spring. I'm not sure if it would mess up their "schedule" if I cooled them again now and don't want to risk it! He was a fussy eater for a while and so far this year has been great.

Female shed last Thursday evening :D I'm excited. I'll make sure to post pics if / when I get some baby hogs!

[Albert Clark]

My male was cooled this past winter so hopefully he's good to go. If not I'll just wait until next spring. I'm not sure if it would mess up their "schedule" if I cooled them again now and don't want to risk it! He was a fussy eater for a while and so far this year has been great.

Female shed last Thursday evening :D I'm excited. I'll make sure to post pics if / when I get some baby hogs!

OK. That sounds like a plan! The whole pastel het pied clutch is out except for 1. They all look healthy and active. Looks like 4 pastels, 2 super pastels, and 1 normal and all 100% het pied. I will put the family picture up as soon as the last hatchling is on the floor. Thanks. :)

[Albert Clark]

Well, the overdue crew finally exited their eggs and what a relief it was. The last little guy rolled the egg off the diffuser and had difficulty exiting. He pulled hard enough and with the egg being stuck and held fast by the diffuser pulled his umbilical cord out a bit. I placed him on moist paper towels for a day or so and he's all healed up.

[SWDK]

They all look nice and healthy. Glad to see everything worked out in the end.

[valkea]

Baby balls are so cute. Glad the one with the umbilical issue healed up nicely! I probably would have panicked a bit.

I'm super horrible at morphs with BPs but the one on the bottom left, is that a super pastel? Seems different than the rest. Thanks for sharing!

[Ian of Oldham]

Looks like a great bunch and colours / patterns look fab congrats mate.

[Albert Clark]

They all look nice and healthy. Glad to see everything worked out in the end.
Thanks SW! They really do look good and I can't wait to post pics of them after they shed out.
Baby balls are so cute. Glad the one with the umbilical issue healed up nicely! I probably would have panicked a bit
I'm super horrible at morphs with BPs but the one on the bottom left
, is that a super pastel? Seems different than the rest. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks val! They really are cute. Yeah, the umbilical cord issue is fairly common from what I learned and they do well if kept on moist paper towels and away from their siblings. The umbilical cord will dry up and fall off. Yes , super pastel 100% het pied.
Looks like a great bunch and colours / patterns look fab congrats mate.
Tyvm Ian! They are a nice clutch of hatchlings. The pastel pied in them accentuated the coloration. I hope they keep their brightness like their father.

[dave himself]

Congratulations mate super little clutch you got there ;)

[Albert Clark]

Congratulations mate super little clutch you got there ;)
Thanks dave! Yes, they taught me a lot. Made me step up my game as far as incubation and security. Also, learned a couple of "do nots" as it relates to egg tubs.