2016 Albino Checkered..

[Albert Clark]

I went into my gravid albino checkered garter tub and found her actively in labor with about 25 hatchlings already delivered. Closed the tub back up and came back 30 minutes later to 36 albino checkered total count. Three super albino checkered included. You can see one of the supers at 8:00 in the first pic. :blink:

[Albert Clark]

The little guy in the middle was stuck in his amniotic membrane and almost didn't make it until i moved him to a different tub. In the birthing tub he was under the carefresh litter and seemed to be having a hard time breaking through the membrane. You can see in the pic that he is on his way out. He is a bit smaller than his littermates.

[Sylphie]

Wow, congatulations! :D They looks sooo cute, and I'm glad that the smaller guy did make it :)

[Tiny Boidae]

Oh they are just precious. You'll have to keep us up to date on them!

But 36 babies sounds like a large clutch... Were there any slugs?

[EL Ziggy]

That's awesome AL! Another job well done.

[Kokorobosoi]

Wahoooo!!!! They are sooo cute!!!! Well done!

[Albert Clark]

Wow, congatulations! :D They looks sooo cute, and I'm glad that the smaller guy did make it :)
Thank you Sylph. He would not have made it if I didn't look close enough to pick him out of the litter. I then lifted him up and looked closer and he wasn't moving. I then put him in the new tub and saw movement.
Oh they are just precious. You'll have to keep us up to date on them!

But 36 babies sounds like a large clutch... Were there any slugs?
Thanks TB! I will. No slugs , no deaths, and no deformities! The mother is a monster garter and had 24 babies two years ago.
That's awesome AL! Another job well done.
Thanks EL! I been checking her tub every day for the past week. She just blew up so much over the past 3 weeks looking like,she was going to explode! Lol.
Wahoooo!!!! They are sooo cute!!!! Well done!
Hey, thanks Koko! I can't believe these supers. I will be holding back a pair for my albino granite checkered project. Still waiting to hear from Steven Bol about the blue puget. I did take your advice. Haha.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Gorgeous babies, and quite the litter! Hopefully that other females drops you some visual granites. :P

[Albert Clark]

Gorgeous babies, and quite the litter! Hopefully that other females drops you some visual granites. :P

Thanks bsg, just what I am hoping for. She should drop soon too. You will be the first to know. I got a feeling she will come through. Haha.

[SWDK]

Very nice looking clutch you've got there. Just a quick question though. What makes a super albino vs a normal albino. I see it looks much lighter, but I don't know much about them so please excuse my ignorance. Thanks

[Kokorobosoi]

I'm glad you took that advice!! I can't wait to see what comes out of it!!

Very nice clutch!!

[Albert Clark]

Very nice looking clutch you've got there. Just a quick question though. What makes a super albino vs a normal albino. I see it looks much lighter, but I don't know much about them so please excuse my ignorance. Thanks

Thank you SW! This is not ignorance really and no need to be excused. Very good question that deserves a good answer. Albino being a recessive trait when bred to another recessive that has the same homozygous (visual) form will produce that trait visually. Or that recessive trait will be expressed. In some of the offspring there will be a higher blushing in the coloration and or patterning. This will make the animal look lighter and sometimes the markings however reduced can appear more vivid in places on the animal.

[Albert Clark]

I'm glad you took that advice!! I can't wait to see what comes out of it!!

Very nice clutch!!

Well, up until today it's been three weeks and I haven't heard from him one way or the other. I plan to keep trying however. I do have a plan B btw. Thanks for the compliment! :blink::blink::blink::blink:

[Albert Clark]

Thank you SW! This is not ignorance really and no need to be excused. Very good question that deserves a good answer. Albino being a recessive trait when bred to another recessive that has the same homozygous (visual) form will produce that trait visually. Or that recessive trait will be expressed. In some of the offspring there will be a higher blushing in the coloration and or patterning. This will make the animal look lighter and sometimes the markings however reduced can appear more vivid in places on the animal.

Sorry SW , I got this explanation wrong about the super form as it relates to these garters. It's the codominant gene not the recessive that will get you to the super form when bred to the same. So with garters it would be the pastel to pastel gene giving the " super pastel" which can look like a brighter version almost yellowish/ white colored snake that looks different from the parent pastel form. None of these pictured checkereds is really a super. There is a color mutation at play with the lighter albinos but not the super at all. No codom in these guys , only recessive X recessive. Hope that makes it a little clearer.

[RAD House]

It is no surprise that people get confused by terms like super because they are only industry terms. Technically a super is a homozygous form of a incomplete dominant genetic trait just as a visual is a homozygous form of a recessive trait. So in a way you are not that far off Albert.

[Kokorobosoi]

Well now I'm confused. So I guess I've been wrong about the super this whole time.

[Albert Clark]

It is no surprise that people get confused by terms like super because they are only industry terms. Technically a super is a homozygous form of a incomplete dominant genetic trait just as a visual is a homozygous form of a recessive trait. So in a way you are not that far off Albert.
Thanks MC for the clarification. I do see the super form in my albino pastel het granite checkered garter believe then. Seeing as she has the pastel gene and the granite gene which she is het for. However her parents are both pastels het for granite but the hatchling appears as a yellowish practically albino animal and looks nothing like the parents? I will post pictures of her later today.
Well now I'm confused. So I guess I've been wrong about the super this whole time.
Koko, you see Super forms when there is a codominant gene that is bred to the same. Fire to fire. Lesser to lesser , mojave ,and pastel. Resulting offspring look different than the parent gene. Most times a super ends up being a all white snake.

[Kokorobosoi]

LOL....I tried reading the super explanation at 4am with no coffee in me. Don't mind me :D

[SWDK]

Thanks Albert. Makes more sense now. I appreciat the explanation.

Thank you SW! This is not ignorance really and no need to be excused. Very good question that deserves a good answer. Albino being a recessive trait when bred to another recessive that has the same homozygous (visual) form will produce that trait visually. Or that recessive trait will be expressed. In some of the offspring there will be a higher blushing in the coloration and or patterning. This will make the animal look lighter and sometimes the markings however reduced can appear more vivid in places on the animal.

[Albert Clark]

Thanks Albert. Makes more sense now. I appreciat the explanation.
Good. Sorry for the mix up. Now i did want to show you a example in this other clutch that i had on 4- 9- 16 with a pair of pastel checkered het for granite checkered garters. The parents are pastel checkered 100% het for granite checkered. They had a 3 hatchling litter with 2 regular pastels being born and one albino/ white hatchling that appears to be a super pastel or a albino pastel that could be ruled a super. In picture #1 the hatchling on top came from pastel checkered parents. The hatchling in picture #1 on the bottom came from two albino checkered parents. The hatchling in picture #2 is the sibling to the hatchling in picture #1 (bottom). Codom pastel vs. recessive albino.

[macandchz]

congratulations, al! glad the one having problems at first is ok,too.

[Albert Clark]

These 2 are the siblings from the Pastel checkered het granite litter from 4-9-16. The hatchling in picture #1 (top) was the one sibling to these two. I think hatchling in picture #1 is a super pastel checkered het for granite. Or super albino pastel.

[Albert Clark]

Sibling #2 from the pastel checkered litter.

[Albert Clark]

congratulations, al! glad the one having problems at first is ok,too.

Thanks mac! Yeah , the little guy is doing well. He hasn't taken a meal yet but sometimes it can take up to 1 week for them to take a meal. Other times they will need a live feeding to get them started. Haha.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I really like the lighter albinos, whether they're super pastels or not. :)

Thanks MC for the clarification. I do see the super form in my albino pastel het granite checkered garter believe then. Seeing as she has the pastel gene and the granite gene which she is het for. However her parents are both pastels het for granite but the hatchling appears as a yellowish practically albino animal and looks nothing like the parents? I will post pictures of her later today.

Koko, you see Super forms when there is a codominant gene that is bred to the same. Fire to fire. Lesser to lesser , mojave ,and pastel. Resulting offspring look different than the parent gene. Most times a super ends up being a all white snake.

Or like in boa constrictors, breeding hypo to hypo, jungle to jungle, Roswell to Roswell, motley to motley, so on and so forth. None of these result in all-white snakes, I think that's mostly limited to ball pythons.

[RAD House]

It has nothing to do with ball pythons it is the type of genetic trait which occur among numerous species in the entire animal kingdom including our selves. Not all "supers" or heterozygous incomplete dominant morphs are white even in the ball python world.

[Little Wise Owl]

Wow, congrats :)

I've thought about adding a pair of albino checkered garters to our family. They're pretty neat

[Aaron_S]

It has nothing to do with ball pythons it is the type of genetic trait which occur among numerous species in the entire animal kingdom including our selves. Not all "supers" or heterozygous incomplete dominant morphs are white even in the ball python world.

Correct....

[sirtalis]

Congrats man, thanks for the explanation about the super morphs :) Will you be holding any back for future breeding projects?

[bigsnakegirl785]

It has nothing to do with ball pythons it is the type of genetic trait which occur among numerous species in the entire animal kingdom including our selves. Not all "supers" or heterozygous incomplete dominant morphs are white even in the ball python world.

Um. I think you misread? That's exactly what I said. I said the white supers were limited to ball pythons. I listed a bunch of super forms of boa constrictors...I kinda realize supers aren't limited to ball pythons. As far as other white supers, I said I think it's mostly limited to ball pythons, because I see few other super forms in other snakes that result in all-white animals. The only super in boa constrictors that results in white animals is the super fire/White Diamond.

[Aaron_S]

Um. I think you misread? That's exactly what I said. I said the white supers were limited to ball pythons. I listed a bunch of super forms of boa constrictors...I kinda realize supers aren't limited to ball pythons. As far as other white supers, I said I think it's mostly limited to ball pythons, because I see few other super forms in other snakes that result in all-white animals. The only super in boa constrictors that results in white animals is the super fire/White Diamond.

Retics and Burms each have a Lucy I believe.

But I'm being nitpicky.

[macandchz]

al, sometime you'll have to post a picture of where you keep all these snakes! i'm curious!

[RAD House]

Um. I think you misread? That's exactly what I said. I said the white supers were limited to ball pythons. I listed a bunch of super forms of boa constrictors...I kinda realize supers aren't limited to ball pythons. As far as other white supers, I said I think it's mostly limited to ball pythons, because I see few other super forms in other snakes that result in all-white animals. The only super in boa constrictors that results in white animals is the super fire/White Diamond.

No I read fine, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make and how it helps explain anything. A white snake is not mutually exclusive of being a super in any snake. Not to mention the term super is not even really the correct term, but derivative slang of the ball python community.

[riddick07]

Pretty! Do you breed your California red Sided ones? My stepfather is dying to have one of those...apparently the snake thing is contagious lol

[Kokorobosoi]

I can't wait to hear about those too! ��

[SWDK]

Thanks for all the info and pictures Albert. Sorry I seemed to have opened a can of worms with my question. Either way the the bottom line is they are beautiful snakes.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Retics and Burms each have a Lucy I believe.

But I'm being nitpicky.

Knew about the retic, didn't realize the Burm was a super. Makes sense I guess. haha

No I read fine, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make and how it helps explain anything. A white snake is not mutually exclusive of being a super in any snake. Not to mention the term super is not even really the correct term, but derivative slang of the ball python community.

My point was exactly what I said it was. That I see very few super forms of morphs that result in white snakes, and that I've mainly only seen white supers in ball pythons.

I said what I did to try clarify supers (listing super hypos, super motleys, etc.), and then making a statement that it doesn't always result in white snakes.

Whether it's a slang term reserved for ball pythons I didn't realize because it's used quite often with boa constrictors as well. Super is used in other snake communities so I figured it was all the same. I'm not sitting here trying to start drama, I'm not sure where all this is coming from, not trying to insult anyone with a use of a word or anything. I'm having a hard time understanding the vitriol.

[Kokorobosoi]

Anyways.....those are some gorgeous animals!!! I think we need pics of them....in hats!

[Albert Clark]

I really like the lighter albinos, whether they're super pastels or not. :)
@ bsg , the lighter one in pic#2 right? I made a mistake calling them "supers". They probably are just a color mutation from two albino checkered parents.


Or like in boa constrictors, breeding hypo to hypo, jungle to jungle, Roswell to Roswell, motley to motley, so on and so forth. None of these result in all-white snakes, I think that's mostly limited to ball pythons.
That was my mistake. Said mojave to mojave, fire to fire would usually result in a all white snake. That was me.
It has nothing to do with ball pythons it is the type of genetic trait which occur among numerous species in the entire animal kingdom including our selves. Not all "supers" or heterozygous incomplete dominant morphs are white even in the ball python world.
That was my error MC. Thanks again.
Wow, congrats :)

I've thought about adding a pair of albino checkered garters to our family. They're pretty neat
Thanks LWO, I appreciate that. Garters are a special snake. Very alert and bordering on intelligent.
Congrats man, thanks for the explanation about the super morphs :) Will you be holding any back for future breeding projects?
Thanks sir! Yes I will be holding back the albino pastel checkered and 1 of the high white albino checkered.
Um. I think you misread? That's exactly what I said. I said the white supers were limited to ball pythons. I listed a bunch of super forms of boa constrictors...I kinda realize supers aren't limited to ball pythons. As far as other white supers, I said I think it's mostly limited to ball pythons, because I see few other super forms in other snakes that result in all-white animals. The only super in boa constrictors that results in white animals is the super fire/White Diamond.
My mistake bsg. I referred to it incorrectly. Thanks.

[Albert Clark]

al, sometime you'll have to post a picture of where you keep all these snakes! i'm curious!
Thanks mac. I have and I will.
No I read fine, I just don't understand the point you are trying to make and how it helps explain anything. A white snake is not mutually exclusive of being a super in any snake. Not to mention the term super is not even really the correct term, but derivative slang of the ball python community.
That was my mistake MC. My wording earlier. I mentioned that by breeding the homozygous form of codominate genes would yield a white snake always as a super.
Pretty! Do you breed your California red Sided ones? My stepfather is dying to have one of those...apparently the snake thing is contagious lol
Yes I am. But they are still growing up. If you want one right now PM me and I will tell you where you can get one tomorrow. Serious!
I can't wait to hear about those too! ��
Koko, pm me for the reference to the breeder of the Calif red sideds. He just hatched out 26 babies! But they go fast so you will have to put in a order right away. I won't have any babies until next year.
Thanks for all the info and pictures Albert. Sorry I seemed to have opened a can of worms with my question. Either way the the bottom line is they are beautiful snakes.
Yeah SW! YW. NP. It's a learning experience for everyone involved and that's what it's about. Thank you.

[Albert Clark]

Anyways.....those are some gorgeous animals!!! I think we need pics of them....in hats!

Thanks Koko! I think the hats would cover them up so as you wouldn't see them. I'll think of something though. Haha. :)

[bigsnakegirl785]

Will you be posting all your 2016 checkered litters here, or just your albinos?

[Albert Clark]

Will you be posting all your 2016 checkered litters here, or just your albinos?
I will be doing it on thamnophis and here as well. Thanks for all your help and consideration. I appreciate that. You like that albino checkered in pic#2 ? That high white albino ? Or were you referring to the albino pastel?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I will be doing it on thamnophis and here as well. Thanks for all your help and consideration. I appreciate that. You like that albino checkered in pic#2 ? That high white albino ? Or were you referring to the albino pastel?

The lightest one in the first picture, I think that one's the pastel?

[Albert Clark]

The lightest one in the first picture, I think that one's the pastel?

PM sent.....;)