Some sizing / feeding questions...thx

[lordkovacs]

I have a reverse okeetee I purchased in Dec. 01 as a hatchling.
Up until 2 weeks ago, he was eating 3 hoppers every saturday. For the past two weeks he has been eating 1 adult every saturday. My question is this; he seems to be eating whatever I give him with absolutely no problem. I mean, he eats it so quick. Then, as most snakes do, he goes looking for more. How big should a corn of 14 months old be? What should he/she be eating? Sometimes I feel I'm underfeeding. He does have a very small lump after eating an adult to give you an idea of his girth. Thanks so much all.

[Lisa]

The basic feeding rule is a prey item up to 1.5X the snakes girth. If it's leaving a lump you're probably fine.

[vanderkm]

Agree with Lisa, if there is a bulge, you have the right prey size. You will not be likely to stunt their growth by feeding too little - we got a cal king that had been 'maintained' on fuzzies for a year and when we started to feed her more appropriate size prey, she grew very rapidly to her adult size. Sometimes the cruising around after a feeding is to have a drink or a poo, rather than looking for a second prey item. One adult mouse a week seems reasonable to me for a yearling (it is what ours are taking). You might want to try with a second mouse occasionally, but I suspect that if one is making a bulge, a meal of two might be big enough to push an early shed (hopefully not so big that it causes a regurg). In general, slow and steady feeding will not be a problem.

mary v.

[stormyva]

IMHO I would feed ONE properly sized prey once a week. On occasion two items sized smaller than the optimal size would be ok though. Feeding mulitple prey items can stress the snakes digestive system and lead to problems.

[BoidKeeper]

At 12 months I had a corn that was 36". He was eating 1 mouse a week. I never go over the girth of the snake. I believe that just because a snake can and will eat something does no mean they should. I would soon give two smaller mice at one sitting then one big one. I feel that smaller meals more often are easier to digest then one big one less often.
My two cents,
Trevor

[J_Riley]

Originally posted by stormyva
Feeding mulitple prey items can stress the snakes digestive system and lead to problems.

I've been feeding my cornsnake (2.5+ years old, 48") two prey (small-medium adult mice) items since I got him when he was 31" long and almost 18 months. Haven't seen a single problem with him...except he doesn't like rats, which is why he's on multiple mice...someone should tell him he's a ratsnake! ;)

[FireSerpent]

I have never known a corn that actually ate rats!! It sucks because they are so much better for them, but like you implied J Riley, they just don't seem to want to listen :D

[BoidKeeper]

All of mine eat F/T rats or mice with out missing a beat. I know a guy who had a 5' snow corn that was raised on rats as soon as it would could take a rat pinkie it never looked back. He attributed the size to rats and slightly higher temps.
Cheers,
Trevor

[stormyva]

JRiley: There is no doubt in my mind that a snake can be fed multiple items and do fine. That is why I said: On occasion two items sized smaller than the optimal size would be ok though. (Note the "two items sized smaller" part)
Are you going to say that it is not better to only feed one properly sized item?
As everyone that keeps reptiles knows there is a optimal situation for husbandry and feeding but there is always going to be an animal or a reason that these optimal conditions can not be met. A perfect example is feeding a snake in the cage. Many snakes are just too shy to eat any where else but the cage.

[XxRachxX]

One adult mouse a week seems reasonable to me for a yearling
jesus christ! how huge are your snakes?! mines nearly 12 months (i think) and just coming off pinkies! i guess it shows that all snakes grow differently! maybe im doing something wrong?
hes about 1.2 cms wide by the way.

[vanderkm]

xxRachxx,
I have a couple yearlings now (hatched late 2001, so just over a year old) that are easily taking young adult mice, and two female snows that were hatched June 2002 that are also taking a young mouse each feeding. The mice are not large adult retired breeders, but they are normal young adult size (between 5-9 weeks of age).

These snakes are about 30 inches long and the mouse makes a moderate bulge after feeding, which is reduced to nothing within 4 days. I don't keep my snakes on pinkies for very long (I don't think they are as balanced a meal as more mature rodents and I would rather grow the pinkies into adult mice - more cost effective feeding). The snakes move up to fuzzies as soon as I think they can handle the size and they move to gerbil fuzzies soon after that (rats are hard to get here or I would use them).

I notice markedly better growth on gerbils than mouse pups and I alternate mouse hoppers and gerbil fuzzies for meals until they are up to adult mice. Hope that clarifies things,

mary v.

[lordkovacs]

I currently have just one corn in a 25 gallon long, but want to add an irian jaya carpet python requiring a 25 gallon tall. So based on what people are saying, in general a ceramic source is better than a bulb for electricity right? and heat tape is even better than that provided it's installed properly. I do have a timer set on 12 hours/day and a little less in brumation period.

Does anyone else find that wood absorbs heat better, and thus requires less?

Thanks all....

cheers,
MIKE

[Weather1]

My male corn was born September 11th 2002 and is eating 1 rat pinkie, every 7 days. He is just over 5 months and is 27 inches long, and about as thick as my middle finger.

So I suggest switching to rats ASAP.

[J_Riley]

Originally posted by stormyva
JRiley: There is no doubt in my mind that a snake can be fed multiple items and do fine. That is why I said: (Note the "two items sized smaller" part)
Are you going to say that it is not better to only feed one properly sized item?
As everyone that keeps reptiles knows there is a optimal situation for husbandry and feeding but there is always going to be an animal or a reason that these optimal conditions can not be met. A perfect example is feeding a snake in the cage. Many snakes are just too shy to eat any where else but the cage.

So why contradict yourself and say Feeding mulitple prey items can stress the snakes digestive system and lead to problems. ? Did you perhaps mean that feeding a 6' ratsnake 6 fuzzies would be a case in point? I just didn't want people thinking more than one prey item per feeding is a bad thing.

I can say it's not better to feed one prey item if you like. I cannot back it up with scientific proof one way or another, and neither can you. It's "accepted practice", perhaps, but I don't know if it's better or worse, as far as the digestive biology goes.

About the only thing I can say, since I keep meticulous records, is that my corn snake (that when I got him, should have been approaching a slow down in growth rate due to his age) has put on, on average, 50 grams a month eating two prey items every 7-10 days - a decent growth rate, considering his age.

[stormyva]

I see no contradiction what so ever.....
Feeding mulitple prey items ==>can<== stress the snakes digestive system and lead to problems.

I dont need scientific proof to tell me that feeding multiple items CAN stress a snakes digestive system.
My healthy Hog Island Boa eats a small rat every week..... but if I offered it two of the small rats it would eat both of them and there is a very good chance he would regurgitate because that much food is way too much for him and it would probably rot before it could be digested. On the other hand... I dont see a problem feeding the snake two items that if combined are equal to the size of the small rat that he would normally eat. Hence the explanation... On occasion two items sized smaller than the optimal size

? Did you perhaps mean that feeding a 6' ratsnake 6 fuzzies would be a case in point? I just didn't want people thinking more than one prey item per feeding is a bad thing.
No doubt about it six fuzzies would be bad.... but the first question would be .... Is there any reason why the snake will not eat one properly sized prey item weekly?

[Ed_r]

I find that Longer thinner snakes do well With feeding a couple smaller prey items. Amazon Tree Boas and some adolescent snakes that are too big for lets say 1 hopper mouse, but too small for an adult mouse. For an Adult though unless its a picky Ball Python that only will eat mice instead of rats, then Even if it is a long thin snake One apropriate prey item is enough.
J_Riley I believe what Stormy is saying is that Preferably feed Only 1 prey item of appropriate size, but if that is not possible then giving 2 smaller prey items is acceptable just not prefered. You don't need to string him up for saying that.

[J_Riley]

I'm not stringing anyone up for anything, just trying to clarify what he was trying to say. My corn snake is big enough to eat a small rat, he just won't. He will, however, greedily consume 2 mice without batting an eye.

I don't particularly agree that one method is better or worse than another. As long as they get an appropriate volume of food, within reason (see ratsnake and 6 fuzzies).