Which female morph is a better investment?

[pythonphilic]

I plan on breeding a pied to a banana, but I'm unsure which morph should be which gender. My original idea was to save up and buy a female banana and then later on a male pied. I think a female banana will be worth more because there isn't many female bananas out there due to the gene locking on to the parent gender. Am I wrong? Female bananas and pieds are worth about the same, but which female morph will create the greatest outcome?

I'm new to breeding so any thoughts/opinions will mean a lot!

[Minkness]

Even if you have a female banana, you could potentially produce male only offspring. Personally, I'd invest in the male banana so that I could breed banana into other female lines (that's actually my plan lol).

Also, there are already some banana het pieds out there. A bit more expensive, but worth it if you want a bananana pied.

This is purely my opinion however. =)

[RAD House]

From what I understand about banana males is that you can actually have either a male maker or a female maker with respect to which of the males parents had the banana gene. For example if you buy a male whose mother was a banana then he will be 95% more likely to produce female bananas. The opposite ratio occurs if the father of the male carried the banana gene. I would probably get a male pied and a female banana because it is a waste of money to have higher priced females compared to males. This is due to the simple fact that you can breed a male to multiple females, so you get more bang for your buck.

[sirtalis]

Imo one valuable/rare male is better than a female, 1 male can father 10 clutches but 1 female can only have 1 clutch just my thoughts

[MDT]

Ok, so I gotta ask....only because market dynamics are (generically) intriguing. Regardless of the morph of BP, how is the market? Seriously, how well do animals actually move? Of the page after page after page of BP's for sale on Kingsnake, so many of those breeders sell ALL of their clutches? How will you stand out from your 1000's of competitors in terms of advertising, e-commerce, etc., to sell your products?

And then there is the whole "do you LOVE the animals and *if* you make make a few dollars along the way, great!", or is it "I'm gonna breed these things and make a killing in the market"?

I'm not trying to bust your chops, I honestly don't know squat about the BP market. But my second question is valid. I can't help you with your morph decision, but I hope you do well in your endeavor.

[sirtalis]

True... it's kinda sad that so many people focus on balls, I wish people would focus on expanding the market and try to breed the rarer animals that are normally wild caught, I mean you'll have to compete with bhb and other mega companies lol

[Minkness]

Note;

Male bananas were between 600-800$ 12 months ago woth females over 1k. Now, you canget a male banana between 150-300 and a female for between 600-800. So the banana market is going to CRASH. You will see them for under 100$ probably by the end of this year. I know this because bananas are one of my FAVORITE morphs. I will be getting a combo gene male for 310$, and that includes shipping. I plan on breeding him and selling locally, but my idea of what I will actually make on the babies is far from 'income'. I will do it because I love it. Both the specific BP I will be getting, and the process of breeding/selling/Trading.

Soooo....in all honesty, looking at the peid is a better option for the male because pieds can be bred into just about anything, but it is a co-dom gene, so you need at least a het to make visuals. Where as if you get a banana male and breed it to a pied female, you will get banana het pieds, which is worth more and if you have multiple females can give you better visual babies.

Just a thought.

[RAD House]

No matter which sex is which you are going to %50 banana het pieds and %50 normal het pieds. Also the pied gene is recessive not codominant(which is actual incomplete dominant if you want to be completely accurate).

I am by no means a breeder, but I have been watching the market for a few years now and I will give my opinion. As far as the market goes the prices always drop around this time of year as people clear out their remaining stock from last year. All in all the market is definitely down from a few years ago but, as in most economic pursuits, that tends to clear out the dead weight and if you have not noticed there have been a lot of collections for sale recently. I am not sure I would recommend that any person go into ball python breeding to make a living. It seems the best bet is to do for the love of the animals and to support your addiction. Then maybe you can build from there, but to jump straight in as a professional seems silly to me.

[Minkness]

What Corney said.

Also, some morphs hold their Value. BELs for instance, are still pretty up there. I think their value only dropped by about $100 in the past 2 years.

Soooo....it really comes down to what YOU want to do or produce, and why and what you want or expect from it.

[Albert Clark]

Well, females will take longer to mature (2yrs) preferably 3 and should be brought up to breeding weight ( 1500 gms.) at least and size. A male is mature in a year (sometimes less) but should be at least 700 gms. Banana pied is a very popular project and are a very sought after morph. Depending on how much you have saved it is better to go with the female first, raise her up to size. Because she will cost more. In about a year you can shop for your male, raise him up for another year and then they will be ready about the same time to produce for you. Banana and coral glow pieds are in demand right now. Think in 2 years they may come down a bit but still a sought after morph.And a even better project.Banana pieds demand a high price!

[Aaron_S]

Pied female. Worth way more in the long run.

Or do this...

Pied female
Banana female

Pastel pied male in a year.

They should mature close together and then you can produce pastel bananas het pied in one year. the following year to 2 years breed the pastel banana het pied son to the pied female...

You're waaay better off for marketing and recessive females are still very useful.

[Minkness]

Aaron, just out of curiosity, why a pastel pied?

[Aaron_S]

Aaron, just out of curiosity, why a pastel pied?

Because pastel pieds are more sought after than regular pieds.

Pastel bananas and pastel pieds sell more than regular pieds and bananas so you're spending a little bit more to get some extra marketing to your animals, saleability, as well as appeal, larger variance to offer too.

[MDT]

Because pastel pieds are more sought after than regular pieds.

Pastel bananas and pastel pieds sell more than regular pieds and bananas so you're spending a little bit more to get some extra marketing to your animals, saleability, as well as appeal, larger variance to offer too.

This is what I'm talkin' about!

[Minkness]

That's what I was thinking, just making sure I understood correctly. =)

[RAD House]

It may just be me but I feel like the pastel gene is oversaturated to point that I am not sure I would want to work with it. I would worry that you would spend more money on a pastel pied and end up sitting on the offspring for awhile or not really make much more on a pastel pied over a normal pied. Not to mention the fact that the gene doesn't tend to age well.

[Albert Clark]

OP was asking about which female morph was the better investment banana or pied to start his project. He was also concerned about the sexual diversity of the female banana and the cost. I relayed my view but what he really needs to know is that it's really up to him to start off first with what is affordable to him and then what he really likes and wants to work with.

[Aaron_S]

OP was asking about which female morph was the better investment banana or pied to start his project. He was also concerned about the sexual diversity of the female banana and the cost. I relayed my view but what he really needs to know is that it's really up to him to start off first with what is affordable to him and then what he really likes and wants to work with.

I would disagree with you that anyone should work with what they really like and want first then see if it's affordable. If it's not, save your pennies.

[Aaron_S]

It may just be me but I feel like the pastel gene is oversaturated to point that I am not sure I would want to work with it. I would worry that you would spend more money on a pastel pied and end up sitting on the offspring for awhile or not really make much more on a pastel pied over a normal pied. Not to mention the fact that the gene doesn't tend to age well.

Sure you make some valid points.

I can make my statement more general though. I would still insist anyone buy double gene animals, push for triple if it fits the plan, budget and look of the animals wanting to produce.

I will say I disagree on the aging factor of pastel when combined with something like pied. For whatever reason it stays pretty cool but again, you make a good point. YB for example is a better option for pied, or orange dream.

[Minkness]

I thinkthe main plan starts with knowing the end result.

If you want to produce pieds, make sure to get 2 or 1 visual and 1 het. That goes for any gene that acts like pied. If you just like the look of the bananas, then go for it. I feel that gender is not as important as the genes if interested in beeeding.

[Albert Clark]

Any pied is always going to be a prized possession in any collection. Regular pied, albino pied, pastel pied, banana pied , Mojave pied and Killer pied. The list goes on and on. Some of them are so unaffordable no matter how many pennies we save. Lol.

[Minkness]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ;)

I am not that huge of a fan of pieds over all, even banana pieds. The one and only exception (at this time) are the 'patternless' black or grey pieds. Or one of those extreme calico pieds. =)

[Albert Clark]

Yeah, and that's fine! Some people cant afford the visuals that they want so they pick up hets and enter into a project to produce their own. That is the beauty of the the hobby/ industry.

[Andy_G]

Ah...I remember the days when super pastels were 50k a piece and pieds were around 10. How far we've come! I second Aarons advice...the more you have to work with, the more people will (generally) be interested.

[RAD House]

Definitely a smart idea to get at least a double gene animal if possible.

[Albert Clark]

Definitely a smart idea to get at least a double gene animal if possible.

True, i priced a candy pied at 12,000 dollars at two different reptile expos. One was the White Plains expo and the other was the New Engand show. Both expos were in 2015 and within the past 7 months. Pastel pieds are about 600 - 800 dollars from most breeders. Bob Clark prices most of his reg pieds around 500- 600 dollars, depending on white percentage and sex. Hets in all classes much more affordable. But of course, your mileage will vary with hets. Lol.