Meet Lupin - Snow SD Gopher

[Humble308]

Grabbed another SD gopher snake from Outback Reptiles back in December. Unfortunately the weather here in Ohio hasn't been cooperating for shipping. We have a gorgeous week and this little guy showed up at my door this morning.

Bought as a boy friend for Bellatrix. He seemed curious and active albeit a tiny bit cold. Weighs in at 20g and I think he's a tiny bit underweight but I'll get him fattened up in no time. I'm really looking forward to seeing these two grow out together.

Outback was great to deal with and even cut me a deal on the snake. Packaging was top notch, heat pack still warm, just overall a good experience.

Just snapped a few quick pics and chucked him in his enclosure. Let him settle in till next week and give him a go with a fat pinky. All the best yall!

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160308_090257317_zpsxksvmask.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160308_090257317_zpsxksvmask.jpg.html)
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160308_090410020_HDR_zpsglecpujw.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160308_090410020_HDR_zpsglecpujw.jpg.html)
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160308_090414770_HDR_zpsjrs4gz3i.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160308_090414770_HDR_zpsjrs4gz3i.jpg.html)
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160308_090643518_zpstlli9won.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160308_090643518_zpstlli9won.jpg.html)

[Bandit]

Beautiful snake!

[Albert Clark]

Really good looking reptile you have there. Congrats.

[EL Ziggy]

Very nice Humble. He and Bella will make a beautiful couple. :)

[macandchz]

he's so cute!

[Humble308]

Thanks y'all ;). I was pacing the house all last week in anticipation haha. I'm hoping that the yellow will fade with time.

I did have a question about genetics that someone much smarter than me could hopefully pipe in. As I understand the snow is a morph of albino+anery. Since Lupin is already snow and has alleles for both albino and anery will breeding with a female albino produce snows right off the bat or just albinos het for anery that have to be bred back? Will I get any wild types? Single reccesive I understand. But double reccesive to a single has got me very confused. I've poured through the calculators and genetics guide but they don't cover double + single. If anyone has a minute to go over this I'd really appreciate it!

I'm hoping that the Applegate albino strain Bellatrix has will produce some some pretty snows. We've still got a few years, I'd like let her get about 2.5 years old before breeding, but I like to have all my bases covered as well. Thanks y'all ;)

[bigsnakegirl785]

Gorgeous animal, I always love the snows.

Thanks y'all ;). I was pacing the house all last week in anticipation haha. I'm hoping that the yellow will fade with time.

I did have a question about genetics that someone much smarter than me could hopefully pipe in. As I understand the snow is a morph of albino+anery. Since Lupin is already snow and has alleles for both albino and anery will breeding with a female albino produce snows right off the bat or just albinos het for anery that have to be bred back? Will I get any wild types? Single reccesive I understand. But double reccesive to a single has got me very confused. I've poured through the calculators and genetics guide but they don't cover double + single. If anyone has a minute to go over this I'd really appreciate it!

I'm hoping that the Applegate albino strain Bellatrix has will produce some some pretty snows. We've still got a few years, I'd like let her get about 2.5 years old before breeding, but I like to have all my bases covered as well. Thanks y'all ;)

If it works the same way as boa constrictor snows, yeah breeding a snow to an albino will produce albinos poss het anery, unless the female was also het anery.

Are the different albino strains in gopher snakes compatible, since you mention a specific Applegate strain? Or are they both the same strain? If they're two different strains, and the different strains in gopher snakes aren't compatible, you won't get any albinos but hets for both types.

[Herpo]

Beautiful snake, congrats on a nice pickup!

[Humble308]

Thanks BSG, I was hoping for snows on the first go, but hey nothing wrong with pretty albinos either :D. I can't be for sure if the strains are compatible, I've been digging and digging to no avail to find out what the actual genetic difference is in the Applegate strain. It sure does look pretty though haha.

Thanks Herpo!

[toddnbecka]

Most likely only one strain of albinos, with the Applegates simply being a specific line if them. I'm loving my new bull snake, great disposition for handling. How are the gophers in that regard? I almost brought one home from the show, but liked the fire bull's colors better.

[Sylphie]

Nice little one, congrats! :D He'll be a ncie pair for your stunning Bella.

[Humble308]

Nice little one, congrats! :D He'll be a ncie pair for your stunning Bella.

Thanks very much. Bellatrix is coming along nicely :D

Most likely only one strain of albinos, with the Applegates simply being a specific line if them. I'm loving my new bull snake, great disposition for handling. How are the gophers in that regard? I almost brought one home from the show, but liked the fire bull's colors better.

My gophers are super sweet. Bella doesn't exactly like handling, she tends to be skittish and flighty over all but I've only had her since late Dec. so. Lupin was very calm and just chilled out in my hand, though I'll update on him in the coming weeks.

My old bull snake was a normal and she was hell on scales. I had to work with her alot to get the hissing and biting down, while my gophers have never hissed or bit once. She eventually escaped unfortunately, but a good lesson in cage security. I haven't seen her, but mysteriously all the rogue mice we kept trapping in the house have vanished so hopefully she's living happily in the walls with a full belly.

Interestingly enough all the normal Pitouphis I've handled have been fairly nasty tempered while most morphs tend to be pretty laid back. I'm curious if breeding for these recessive traits is also helping temperament? In either case I really enjoy the species. I like the faces on the bulls a bit more and would eventually love to have a fire or red hypo bull snake. I can't wait to see how your boy grows out ;)

[toddnbecka]

I handled an adult "great plains bullsnake" way back in my college days, early 80's. It was at a local pet shop, seemed pretty calm, started me quite a bit when I reached to pick up and he hissed very loudly. All bluff though, didn't try to bite, very active but settled down after a minute or two. I've never seen any that looked quite like him since then.

[Humble308]

Very cool, just gotta love Pits. I noticed you have an everglades rat. Do you have any pics/post on her? I've come to really like rat snakes in general and heard the everglades are pretty nice to keep. Eventually I'd like to try some of the more exotic rats like the Tiger Rat, or Vietnamese Beauties.

[toddnbecka]

The everglades rat, Sunshine, isn't one for handling. She's a great display snake, but had already matured to adult colors when I got her. Apparently she wasn't handled much (if at all) when younger. She doesn't bite, but will quickly dive for cover if I try to pick her up. She does calm down fairly quickly once in hand, but clearly isn't comfortable about it, so I don't like to stress her too much. My Jap rats are much less flighty, and don't mind being picked up when their enclosures are opened. If they're feeling active (or hungry, lol) they'll usually come right on out the top, and hardly notice they're being picked up. Sunshine won't even come out of her tank when the lid is open, though she will wait and see if there's a mouse incoming.
Here's a couple old pics when I first brought her home, she's a good bit larger now.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060599_zpsozudsjhq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060599_zpsozudsjhq.jpg.html)
Size reference, that's a 75 gallon aquarium, 18" front-to-back:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060608_zpsbo2qb494.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060608_zpsbo2qb494.jpg.html)

More recent, last summer out on the back deck railing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060664_zpsyyphav0q.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060664_zpsyyphav0q.jpg.html)

Her belly is a very bright yellow, along with the orange and barely visible stripes, not sure if she's hypo or just a really nice regular everglades rat. Great appetite, though not one to bite the hand rather than the mouse. She prefers live but is usually willing to take leftover f/t if another snake doesn't eat.

I like the various beauty snakes, but they do grow quite a bit larger than the everglades or yellow rats, and need more space as adults. Tiger rats aren't nearly as commonly available, and quite often I see imports rather than CB. Must be one or more reasons for that, I'm thinking either their general disposition stinks or they're relatively difficult to breed in captivity. I'm wanting one or a pair of the green bush ratsnakes, great looking and more my size to house and maintain as adults.

[Humble308]

Couple of updated photos for Lupin. He seems to be a slow grower only up to 30g Very shy and inconsistent eater that I'm hoping he'll grow out of much like Bella.

TNB I just saw that post with your Everglades and wow what a pretty snake! I've hear they're known for their less than pleasant temperment :D. Thanks for sharing.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160629_191134795_HDR_zpsr5l6yja5.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160629_191134795_HDR_zpsr5l6yja5.jpg.html)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n127/Humble308/IMG_20160629_190948299_zpsaifndo03.jpg (http://s111.photobucket.com/user/Humble308/media/IMG_20160629_190948299_zpsaifndo03.jpg.html)

[Ian of Oldham]

Love your snow SD she looks bigger out of the viv.

[toddnbecka]

Wow, Lupin is looking good. What is the difference between a snow and an albino? I'm surprised he's such a slow grower, my fire bull eats like a scaled pig and grows like a weed in a garden, lol. I think he's actually growing faster than my carpet pythons, though I don't actually weigh or measure them, so it's just a subjective observation.

Sunshine (the Everglades rat snake) doesn't have a bad disposition, but she isn't comfortable with handling. She's never struck or bitten, does tend to musk if picked up though, and takes a minute to calm down. She does watch everything around her, and will come right up for food, would likely even take it from my hand. I like her well enough as a "display" snake, have plenty of others that don't mind handling, lol.

[Andy_G]

Humble, nice SD there! The yellow will definitely fade a little bit. I have heard that SD gophers are a bit more sporadic in feeding than some of the other pits, but since I don't have personal experience with them, I won't claim that.

toddnbecka, a snow is an anery albino so it's actually a double recessive. Bulls have the fastest growth rate of any pits and can potentially be on rat weanlings or small adult rats at a year of age without being power fed. Genetics and frequency of feeding play big roles in that, as well as if they're brumated for the first year where they grow the most rapid.

[Humble308]

TNB,

Thanks! Andy is on the money snow = albino+anery. I reckon he's just not settled yet as far as the eating goes, just seems to go on and off. Just a moment ago I was checking on the food I'd left by his hide and he's in there sleeping with the thing.

My gray rat is pretty gentle, though he's starting to get some attitude..he just turned a year old the other day. Little rascal actually bit and peed on me within the last 2 weeks. So idk maybe he's in the terrible teens part of being a rat snake haha. Never turns down a meal and is pretty observant like yours. Cool snakes for sure.

Humble, nice SD there! The yellow will definitely fade a little bit. I have heard that SD gophers are a bit more sporadic in feeding than some of the other pits, but since I don't have personal experience with them, I won't claim that.

Genetics and frequency of feeding play big roles in that, as well as if they're brumated for the first year where they grow the most rapid.


Thanks! I'm really liking him. I may give him some more cover and another hide...critter just seems shy.

I wonder if you could elaborate on that last part if you don't mind me picking your brain :D I would eventually like breed Lupin and Bella. Are you saying brumation within the first year of the snake's life is beneficial even if you aren't breeding for a few years?

[Andy_G]

I know lots of breeders who don't ever brumate and they get nice results yearly. I know of a few who had temp spikes during brumation and they've had horrible years because of it. There's also those who do it yearly wothout issue...so brumation is up to you. What I was saying is that when you brumate them during their first year, intake of meals and therefore growth is missed out on, which generally speaking reduces the potential size of the individual. The only situation that I would find brumation with hatchlings to be advantageous would be if they went on a winter fast all on their own.

[mysticmoon]

Beautiful snake you have there! I live in a desert area of southern California and see wild gophers all the time, never seen a snow though, wow.