Lesser Platnium Question

[Minkness]

I may have the opportunity to get a lesser platnium female soon and was just wondering if it follows the same co-doms as a normal lesser. So if I choose to breed her to my lesserbee, will I still get the chance for BELs?

I looked on the genetic wizard and platnium isn't on there anywhere. Also, couldn't find a whole lot about them and was curious about tueir average monetary value.

Thanks!

[Sublimeballs]

Lesser platinum was the original name, it got shortened to lesser over time. Lessers came from an animal refered to as the "platty daddy", a platinum morph. When bred to a normal animals that looked kinda like the sire and what appeared to be normals were the result. Thus the animals were named lesser platinums. The normal looking animals are actually a virtually non visual member of the bel complex but incomplete dominate none the less(co dominate is an incorrect term). So in short yes you'll get some bels.

[Minkness]

Thanks for the lesson. Still alot to learn. If I get this girl it will be a few years anyway. But now I'm a little worried. So is something labled a lesser platnium not a visual lesser?

This is the snake in question btw. I am by no means great at this yet. So can't tell some of the more subtle morphs apart. Though my understanding is that lessers aren't hidden at all. So it would have to be a visual, right? (I may be confusing myself by now)

[Sublimeballs]

No, no. A lesser platinum is the full name of the lesser mutation. The platinum largely dropped off the name a few years ago. That's a beautiful little lesser. At some point in my life ill own another lesser but for now no ball pythons.

[Albert Clark]

I may have the opportunity to get a lesser platnium female soon and was just wondering if it follows the same co-doms as a normal lesser. So if I choose to breed her to my lesserbee, will I still get the chance for BELs?

I looked on the genetic wizard and platnium isn't on there anywhere. Also, couldn't find a whole lot about them and was curious about tueir average monetary value.

Thanks!

Mink, the platinum bp has a extreme hypomelanistic (little to no black) coloration. It is a creamy brown with white. It was crossed with a normal to bring about the lesser platinum. Yes, the lesser gene bred to another lesser can produce the bel. As would mojave X lesser. Not sure on the ratio in the offspring to actually get the bel. Nice project however. Average monetary value I think is variable but it is a sought after morph. You can try going into "morph market" for numbers. Good luck. Hope this helped.

[RAD House]

Lesser platinum was the original name, it got shortened to lesser over time. Lessers came from an animal refered to as the "platty daddy", a platinum morph. When bred to a normal animals that looked kinda like the sire and what appeared to be normals were the result. Thus the animals were named lesser platinums. The normal looking animals are actually a virtually non visual member of the bel complex but incomplete dominate none the less(co dominate is an incorrect term). So in short yes you'll get some bels.

That is interesting about incomplete dominance, and after looking it up you are absolutely correct. It is amazing what seems to be fact in the hobby is so wrong, I guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet. I have heard people asking about the platty daddy gene as if it were separate from the lesser gene, what is the deal there?

[Albert Clark]

I may have the opportunity to get a lesser platnium female soon and was just wondering if it follows the same co-doms as a normal lesser. So if I choose to breed her to my lesserbee, will I still get the chance for BELs?

I looked on the genetic wizard and platnium isn't on there anywhere. Also, couldn't find a whole lot about them and was curious about tueir average monetary value.

Thanks!

That is interesting about incomplete dominance, and after looking it up you are absolutely correct. It is amazing what seems to be fact in the hobby is so wrong, I guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet. I have heard people asking about the platty daddy gene as if it were separate from the lesser gene, what is the deal there?
I believe that the original platty daddy phrase and morph was coined by big man Ralph Davis in 1999. He referenced it to a platinum morph. That was prior to the cross with the normal which produced the lesser platinum. I am not sure if Ralph was the one to do the crossing though.

[Sublimeballs]

That is interesting about incomplete dominance, and after looking it up you are absolutely correct. It is amazing what seems to be fact in the hobby is so wrong, I guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet. I have heard people asking about the platty daddy gene as if it were separate from the lesser gene, what is the deal there?

Yeah, alot of things dealing with genetics are misconstrued in the hobby because most breeders know what to what makes this not the science behind it.

The "platty daddy" was/is a homozygous form of 2 mutations in the BEL complex: The lesser and the "het platty daddy". The "het platty daddy" is similar to the mystic or special genes, in that its easy to label as normal to your average hobbiest(maybe a little less so for the mystic) but is a mutation in the BEL complex. And just like the special or mystic, when mixed to "het platty daddy" the offspring don't come out as pure white BELs like lesser x lesser. Hope this helps.

[Minkness]

I knew about the lesser and mojave, I was just thrown off by the platnium addition. Makes more sence now.

Anyway, going to hopefully get her as a future breeder. I may never breed to be fully honest...but it's fun to think about and she's a pretty snake. Kinda love that long stripe lol.

Also looking at a mojave girl.

As usual, I will update everyone with pics and fantastically detailed stories if I do get these ladies. =)

[RAD House]

Yeah, alot of things dealing with genetics are misconstrued in the hobby because most breeders know what to what makes this not the science behind it.

The "platty daddy" was/is a homozygous form of 2 mutations in the BEL complex: The lesser and the "het platty daddy". The "het platty daddy" is similar to the mystic or special genes, in that its easy to label as normal to your average hobbiest(maybe a little less so for the mystic) but is a mutation in the BEL complex. And just like the special or mystic, when mixed to "het platty daddy" the offspring don't come out as pure white BELs like lesser x lesser. Hope this helps.

I see. But if the het daddy gene is in the BEL complex wouldn't that mean that the original snake would have had blue eyes, or that any BEL complex combo with het daddy would produce a blue eyed animal? I am pretty sure that is not the case in either example. Also sorry if I am hijacking your thread minkness.

[Albert Clark]

Not really sure, but the pairing of the original platinum to the normal is what produced the lesser platinum. Once the pairing of the lesser platinum to lesser platinum took place was the production of the bel.

[Minkness]

Not hijacked at all! This is still very relevant!

[Aaron_S]

Platinum was bred to a normal.

Offspring: Lessers and het Platinums

lesser x lesser = BEL
Lesser x het platinum = BELs and Platinums (I THINK)
het platinum x het platinum = Platinums and BELS (I THINK)

I am going off memory when I was looking into this years ago.

[Minkness]

Thanks for the clarification!

[Sublimeballs]

Aaron, I'm going to have to disagree. The "het platinum" gene should works just like all the other mutations in the complex; aside from being less recognizable.
It should be(and I say should because I've also only researched it and not bred them):

Lesser x het platinum = 1/4 platinums, 1/4 het platinums, 1/4 lessers, 1/4 normals

Het platinum x het platinum = 1/4 super het platinums( they'd be different than platinums, think super mystic vs mystic potion), 1/2 het platinums, 1/4 normals

[Minkness]

So is a lesser and a lesser platnium 2 different things? Because I couldn't find the platnium gene anywhere on the genetic wizard. O.o

[Albert Clark]

I don't think you can get to the super form by breeding two hets together. You can get back to the actual visual (phenotypical) form of the morph though. Visual x Visual = super
Het x het = visual 50%

[Albert Clark]

@ Minkness: The original platinum bred to a "normal" was referred to as a lesser platinum. The lesser gene itself has been linebred and outcrossed to produce so many other morphs in the past and recently. Genetically they are similar but visually they are different.

[Minkness]

Ok...so what IS a lesser platnium then? This is so confusing... @_@

[Albert Clark]

Trust me, it is a bit confusing . So you are not alone and you wont understand it right away but as you get more and more involved in the genetics part it will become a little clearer. Don't get panicked or frustrated over it now.

[RAD House]

Albert you have to look at heterozygous differently for a gene that is Incomplete dominant from one that is recessive. For an animal that is Incomplete dominant the heterozygous form is a visual morph and the super form is the homozygous. As you know for a recessive gene a heterozygous animal is normal visual and the homozygous is the visual morph.

Minkness a lesser platinum and a lesser are one in the same, lesser is just a shortened version. From what I can gather there was another gene that was involved with the first snake bred with the lesser gene. There is not a whole lot of information on this other gene but I have seen it called het platinum, het daddy, or het platty daddy. World of ball pythons calls it het daddy, and that it is a dominant gene. That means that there is no super form and a heterozygous and a homozygous animal look the same. I have read a few unsubstantiated accounts of a super form. WOBP also lists a platty daddy as a lesser daddy combo. There seems to be a lot of confusion about this gene.

[Minkness]

Thanks. I think I will chaulk it up to a 'useless' gene and just think of my new BP as a lesser. If something comes from the platnium cool, but I'm not gling to stress it.

[Albert Clark]

@ MesoCorney: Thanks for clarifying that. I appreciate it.

[RAD House]

Minkness your animal is a one gene animal, a lesser platinum or a lesser as some call it. A platinum is different from what you have, a lesser platinum.

[Aaron_S]

Aaron, I'm going to have to disagree. The "het platinum" gene should works just like all the other mutations in the complex; aside from being less recognizable.
It should be(and I say should because I've also only researched it and not bred them):

Lesser x het platinum = 1/4 platinums, 1/4 het platinums, 1/4 lessers, 1/4 normals

Het platinum x het platinum = 1/4 super het platinums( they'd be different than platinums, think super mystic vs mystic potion), 1/2 het platinums, 1/4 normals

You are correct in that you'd get the normals and lessers in the clutches. I purposely left that out though because I was too lazy to type it out. I was just putting out what they two genes combined make. As I said, it's what I THINK is the combos but I can't recall as it's been some time since I dug up the info on them. I find it useless since nobody wants to breed normals for slightly better looking lessers at a stupid cost.

Thanks. I think I will chaulk it up to a 'useless' gene and just think of my new BP as a lesser. If something comes from the platnium cool, but I'm not gling to stress it.


Good idea. It'll save you some headache. To be honest, you can completely disregard platinum and patty daddy etc. and have just a fine time in ball pythons. The gene is virtually non-existent.