Let's talk hypos

[Lefitte]

I've got a few questions about hypos that I haven't quite found an answer for through research. I figure it works relatively the same in all species but I'm focused mainly on how it shows up in Cal kings.

My California kingsnake Eir has shown a pretty dramatic switch in color. She's coming up on 2 years old this June-July and losing a lot of her black pigment.

Now, are hypos ever born dark and lose pigment later? From what I've seen of rainbow boas, that doesn't seem to be the case. It seems like it's pretty obvious what genetics are at play once the babies are born and shed a couple times. However, the way she's changing in color is making her look more and more hypo. She also has grey-blue eyes, though I didn't think anything of that before other than it was pretty. When I bought her, she was pretty close in color to the high white adult they had. She was nearly that black and white but now she's chocolate and cream. Her belly is extremely yellow but it doesn't show up on my camera. We're talking at least aspen chip yellow.

Here's some pics. Sorry for the low quality baby pics.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12743955_10208823769896664_3664219355001784097_n.j pg?oh=0a0666c437af6e51a3410d088fedba3f&oe=576718A8

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/12733369_10208823770136670_2161448848070066337_n.j pg?oh=a586cd4709f872e3149420bd4020d1e1&oe=57698AF2

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12743855_10208823770456678_2826304686435408922_n.j pg?oh=75b62ef55968e40b1dff636c6f96a153&oe=57627D1D

Bonus belly pic in my attempt to show the yellow. [Attempt and failure] Her under tail stripe is almost a chocolatey lavender color.
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12715362_10208823738855888_1511298162642495652_n.j pg?oh=0d6d2e3e3d69a9c6df112f64ac9e1ed5&oe=572FF51C

Is it possible that she is hypo and wasn't visually showing it until she grew? It doesn't seem to be the way hypo works to me but she's certainly starting to look very hypo lately.

[Minkness]

I believe that in kingsnakes 'black' isn't always as stark a color as expected. My MBK who was once so black she was blue, had lightened and in juat about any light looked like ahe was a dark dark chocolate. So, I believe your baby isjust coming into her adult colors.

You are right that Hypodoesn't work like that. To be hypo the animal will be completely missing certain melinen leaving animal void of any actual black. This is what makes most hypos bright oranges, yellows, and reds. So a baby born hypo would not start out black and fade, but would be born already lacking any black.

She is still cute though =)

[Andy_G]

In some species expressing hypomelanism, bullsnakes for example, adults will appear brighter as colours further develop, but hatchlings seem darker as babies. This is not because they have lost any dark pigment, however. Hypos can darken and melanin can creep in as the animal ages though, such as in honduran milksnakes.

[Minkness]

Yes, but not 'black'. Here is a hypo vs a normal cali king.

http://southerncaliforniakingsnakes.weebly.com/uploads/7/8/8/1/7881947/1676034_orig.jpg

[Andy_G]

To be hypo the animal will be completely missing certain melinen leaving animal void of any actual black. This is what makes most hypos bright oranges, yellows, and reds. So a baby born hypo would not start out black and fade, but would be born already lacking any black.


With all due respect... not true, Mink. In hypomelanistic animals, melanin pigmentation is reduced, but not absent, and in many species, stark black is most certainly present, so your previous explanation of hypomelanism noted above, is not accurate. Boa constrictors would be a perfect example of this...hypos are born with reduced black and will almost always develop more black speckling as they age. In the case of california kingsnakes/rainbow boas and hypomelanism however, you are certainly right.

[Minkness]

Forgive me if I'm confused, but how can I be wrong and then right? Is it just how the genes work in certain animals? Like how it's different in boas than in kings?

[Andy_G]

In certain species the hypos have no black at all, in others black is present...which is why your explanation of hypomelanism is incorrect because it does vary, but in the case of rainbow boas and kingsnakes there is no black. Furthermore, some of the animals that lack true black could even really labelled as t+ albino but they aren't because of who originated the line and what they were called. All hypomelanism really is when it comes down to it fundamentally is a trait that reduces melanin...which varies to a degree between species...but is genetically proven to be replicable in a predictive way...some hypos are codom, some are dominant, while some are recessive. Confusing, right? :)

[Lefitte]

Interesting. I actually really love genetics which is why I'm extra curious. I dont care which one she is, just has me thinking about how hypo works in kings.
Do normal kings also show the grey-blue eyes? I ran across the blue eyed hypos which made my curious about that too. I havent seen many other kings in person that closely to tell for myself and it can be hard to see in pictures. I think the difference in her color is even more striking in person than photo too.

[Lefitte]

Does it express differently in different species because hypomelanism is the lack of black pigment but it is NOT amelanism which is the absense of black? Amel is just another name for albino right? Is that why it can still show black yet in some species it may not?

[Minkness]

Ah, wow, so much to remember lol confusing indeed! All I know is that I usually have a serious soft spot for just about any hypo reptile lol.

[Andy_G]

Does it express differently in different species because hypomelanism is the lack of black pigment but it is NOT amelanism which is the absense of black? Amel is just another name for albino right? Is that why it can still show black yet in some species it may not?

Correct. It's hard to quantify exactly why hypomelanism manifests itself differently in each species but it has a lot to do with what is present in the wild type.

Look up tyrosinase positive albino if you're into this stuff. It may not reduce your confusion, though.

[Minkness]

T+ are ine of my faaaaves.... I saw a female, super clean, super pale, GORGOUS T+ boa. If I weren't moving soon, I think I would have gotten her as Treasure's GF lol

[Lefitte]

I can't remember if I like T+ or T- better. I forgot which one shows purple. I really purpley looks. I'm not a huge fan of albino snakes because I dont really like yellows, oranges, reds and white together which is usually some mixture of albino. Love it in other animals though. I think I just really love the fact that animals can be so many different colors anf patterns in the wild. I like wondering how their camoflagr would work. Brbs amaze me in that area. It's like you're shining.. How do you hide if you are shining?

[Minkness]

I prefer the T+ because they have normal colored or amber eyes like Hypos instead of pink or red like normal albinos. I currently have 2 albinos (one extreme red) that har hognoses and in all honesty wouldn't have them if they were rescues. I have fallen head over heals for their personalities though, so now I know that while I planned (at one point long long ago lol) to rehome the rescues, no one is going anywhere any time soon lol.

Also, for being an extreme 'red' he is VERY orange and even has orange eyes where as the normal albino are shades of pale lemon, pale orange, and pale pink grapefruit with pastel pink eyes (which still unnerves me sometims lol).

[Aaron_S]

Just to touch on Andy's point and hopefully shed some light on the confusion.

"hypo", short for "hypomelanism/hypomelanistic (Andy pointed out), is used as a catch-all for any animal showing brighter than normal colours and being inherited in a incomplete dominant or recessive trait.

In the reptile world, sometimes we use the wrong term and then we all end up in a confused state because some people use the actual term instead of the "slang" that some breeder decided to use.

[Lefitte]

Yeah that was part of why I asked here as well because I didn't feel the sources I was finding were all that credible and was having trouble weeding out the genetic hypo term from possible incorrect uses.

[chairman]

King genetics are weird. But for your specific king, I'd recommend researching locality specific collections. A couple localities of "normals" are more brown than black or more yellow than white.