General Questions: Different Genera of Snakes

[Stiglitz]

Please share your experiences with the listed genera (plural for genus) of snakes to help my decision making. I'm aiming to only own one snake and have it be a long long friend, so I want to have a good understanding of each potential candidate from actual people who have owned them. Most of these will be concerning the well known "cons" of each genus. These are the only types of snakes that I'm interested in at the moment.

Ball pythons (Python regius):
I've heard they can be really finicky feeders, and relatively poor shedders. In regards to a 100% amateur, just how much of a problem are these two factors? The last thing I'd want to do is kill the animal or detriment its health.

Spotted pythons (Antaresia maculosa):
I have read that a lot of them can have a very heavy feeding response. Even into adulthood after frequent handlings, I've read from some owners that they will still bite occasionally, more than a milksnake or BP. Your thoughts? I love to share my passion for animals with other people, and I don't want to run the risk of my snake tagging an unsuspecting guest.

Honduran milk snakes (Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis):
Two things: Is their approximately six foot adult length a little too much to handle? (I'm 5 foot 5 inches). Also, when they are juveniles and even as adults, would you say it's gonna be hard for a beginner like me to learn how to handle a snake that is on the faster side (when compared to a BP for example)?

Thank you.

[Minkness]

Hmmm....for a first timer I don't think I'd suggest a spotted. I have no experience, but from what I have read, they are more of a hands off snake.

Milksnakes will be on the more docile but flighty side, and will be medium to high activity while hamdling, which could be intimidating to others. Because they are slender however, I don't personally see an issue with their size.

BPs are probably your best bet outof these three. For one they are far less intimidating to others because of their slower, more relaxed movements. I have also noti6that non-snake people actually like their weight vs a thinner snake. As far as feeding and shedding go....it really comes down to the owner. ANY snake can randomly go off food, the trick with BPs is to establish a routine and stick to it. And shedding shouldn't be an issue if you have proper humidity and provide a rough surface to rub against. That goes for any snake though. They make gread 'cuddle' buddies and do come in sooooo many different colors and patterns that you can still have a common snake without it looking like every other one seen before.

[AndrewM1217]

I have a Spotted Python as my one and only snake. From my experience thus far, he's primarily a good boy and tolerates handling just fine. He's largely active, and is always climbing around his enclosure. From time to time however, he feels the need to try and escape my grasp whenever I pick him up. He will strike at me from time to time but Antaresia maculosa are far too small to do any damage worth noting lol. The few times he's attempted to strike at me, he ends up pressing his feeble little mouth against my hand to no avail. If you can tolerate a little "personality" alongside a strong feeding response and entertaining behavior patterns, I fully suggest a Spotted Python.

[Jim Smith]

I only keep Hondurans so I can't speak for the other species mentioned. Once Hondurans grow past the juvenile stage, they settle down fairly nicely. Easy to handle and tend to not be aggressive or bite at all. I would call them very easy to handle and despite the 5-6 size, they are slender snakes so the length really isn't much of a factor. Good eaters, readily available, beautiful morphs to choose from and not too expensive. If you can wait a few months, there should be lots of babies available to choose from.

[SSSSnakes]

I deal with all three. I'd stay away from Balls for all the reasons you mentioned. I'd recommend Spotteds and Milks for all the reasons others have mentioned.

[ngav3]

Are you only interested in these types of snakes? If not, what are you looking for in a snake?

[prairiepanda]

If you want to see a lot of activity in the enclosure, I'd go with a spotted. They're easy to keep and handle, but as others have noted you do need to be prepared for some nippiness.

Balls and milks are both pretty much pet rocks in their homes. Really not display animals at all. But they're more tame than spotteds. A Ball python will sit and chill with you while you watch TV, while a milk snake will constantly be on the move when you handle them. As for size, ball pythons actually get heavier than most hondurans. Even though they can be long, hondos are really slim so they always seem fairly small and the length doesn't make them any more difficult to handle. The speed shouldn't be a problem either; they're not really that fast, they just move a lot. You would get the hang of it pretty quick.

So what exactly do you want from the snake? The spotted is your display animal, the ball is your couch potato, and the milk is the flighty but tame one.

[Minkness]

I will say this about BPs....they suck as a display, they can be difficult feeders....and other stuff I'm sure.

I came into this hobby dead set AGAINST BPs....then I somehow found myself with one, fell in love, have two, and want more. It's hard to describe what makes BPs so great sometimes, as there are drawbacks. But every snake will have a drawback. It just comes down to what you want from your animal.

This is part of what makes owning just 1 snake so difficult in the hobby. So many DIFFERENT options!

[Stiglitz]

As far as feeding and shedding go....it really comes down to the owner. ANY snake can randomly go off food, the trick with BPs is to establish a routine and stick to it. And shedding shouldn't be an issue if you have proper humidity and provide a rough surface to rub against. That goes for any snake though. They make gread 'cuddle' buddies and do come in sooooo many different colors and patterns that you can still have a common snake without it looking like every other one seen before.

Great, thanks for the reply! The morph that I am most interested in is the leucistic BP. It's by far the most gorgeous snake I've seen, but pricey. This combination makes me really nervous to get one as my first snake, because I could potentially mess up their generally "higher" requirement for humidity..

[Stiglitz]

If you can wait a few months, there should be lots of babies available to choose from.

I've read other people say things similar to this.. In a few months obviously it will be spring, but what is it about that season that makes snakes more readily available? Is this when breeding season is? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

[Stiglitz]

Are you only interested in these types of snakes? If not, what are you looking for in a snake?

If you want to see a lot of activity in the enclosure, I'd go with a spotted. They're easy to keep and handle, but as others have noted you do need to be prepared for some nippiness.

Balls and milks are both pretty much pet rocks in their homes. Really not display animals at all. But they're more tame than spotteds. A Ball python will sit and chill with you while you watch TV, while a milk snake will constantly be on the move when you handle them. As for size, ball pythons actually get heavier than most hondurans. Even though they can be long, hondos are really slim so they always seem fairly small and the length doesn't make them any more difficult to handle. The speed shouldn't be a problem either; they're not really that fast, they just move a lot. You would get the hang of it pretty quick.

So what exactly do you want from the snake? The spotted is your display animal, the ball is your couch potato, and the milk is the flighty but tame one.

These two replies will make a good transition into me describing what exactly I want in a snake.

First of all, I don't really mind or care what the snake does in its enclosure. Whether it's super active like a spotted, or a rock like a BP, as long as I know that they are completely healthy and happy, then they can do whatever they want in their enclosures.
However, when handling the snake, there are some things I'm looking for. Judging off of the responses, I've decided not to go with the spotted because of its potentially nippy behavior. Looks like its between a BP and milk (for the moment).. I think I'm leaning towards BPs for their couch potato behavior, but I'm still really nervous about the shedding aspect.
I've done hours upon hours of research, but that doesn't mean I know every potential genus to keep. Here are more general factors that I am looking for in my future best friend:

Demeanor like a milk, corn, or BP (whether that be naturally or after frequent handlings).
I really love earthy colored snakes (browns, dark greens, blacks, etc) matched with a nice pattern . I'm not a huge fan of all the vibrant reds with oranges with yellows with stripes and spots etc. If a snake is to have a pattern, the earthy colors attract me most (think of a spotted for an example).
HOWEVER, if the snake is to have a vibrant color, I prefer it to be solid. Take a patternless honduran for example.. Also, I just like solid colored snakes in general (my two interests are leucistics and the black milk snake or mexican black king snake).

I hope I'm not coming off as if I want my snake to be perfect. I've been keeping fish for around 4 years and know what its like to be serious about any pet keeping hobby; so I want to make sure that I'm well prepared and well educated for my snake well before I even receive it.

[Minkness]

BELs have come down in price quite a bit actually! They are on my want list, but I believe I will try to make them instead of just buy them. There are also different kinds of BELs, so keep an eye out. Black eyed lucistic are usually super fires, and in my opinion not a true Lucistic because they usually have yellow patches. Then you have the super mojave who often times have a purple head (still pretty cool if you ask me), then you have the super lessers or the lesser x mojave. These are the whitest imo and is what I will be personally working towards whenever I get into breeding. Then you have Ivories. I usued to call these the 'poor mans' BEL but since BELs have come down in price they aren't that much cheaper any more. They also aren't pure white....but I adore mine, who I actually got as a rescue. =)

As for why more babies will be available soon. It's not that it's 'breeding' season, but hatching season. Also, just because a breeder hatches a baby doesn't mean you should jump on it. A good breeder will ensure the baby is feeding and shedding on a consistent, healthy basis before selling it. So keep that in mind if you gwt a baby. =)

[Stiglitz]

BELs have come down in price quite a bit actually! They are on my want list, but I believe I will try to make them instead of just buy them. There are also different kinds of BELs, so keep an eye out. Black eyed lucistic are usually super fires, and in my opinion not a true Lucistic because they usually have yellow patches. Then you have the super mojave who often times have a purple head (still pretty cool if you ask me), then you have the super lessers or the lesser x mojave. These are the whitest imo and is what I will be personally working towards whenever I get into breeding. Then you have Ivories. I usued to call these the 'poor mans' BEL but since BELs have come down in price they aren't that much cheaper any more. They also aren't pure white....but I adore mine, who I actually got as a rescue. =)

As for why more babies will be available soon. It's not that it's 'breeding' season, but hatching season. Also, just because a breeder hatches a baby doesn't mean you should jump on it. A good breeder will ensure the baby is feeding and shedding on a consistent, healthy basis before selling it. So keep that in mind if you gwt a baby. =)

I see. Thanks for that info! Going back to the leucistic BP.. In general I would hate to kill an animal or detriment its health when it was avoidable. So, with that in mind, as far as ball pythons are concerned, would you say its difficult to learn how to properly provide them with the humidity they need in order to shed properly? Thinking about that makes me nervous :sad:

[ngav3]

So you like earthly colored snakes huh? Im the same, i really like the more natural colors. If you dont mind the size, look into boa constrictors. If the size is an issue, look into dwarf boas such as hogg island or Nicaraguan, but be aware the dwarf boas tend to be a little more nippy as babies than a common boa (boa constrictor imperator). They do tame out as adults however, especially with handling.

Or perhaps a corn snake if colubrids are your thing.

African house snakes are also a good option, especially in terms of earthly colors.

[Minkness]

Made my last post while you were still posting, so this is to add on.

I had a Mexican black kingsnake and I personally did not enjoy her as much as I hoped. Ithers on here however LOVE theirs!

Now, to match your apparent interests, I must ask...Have you looked into western hognoses?

They are one of the best imo. And, they come in really lovely earthy tones as well, but, they are spotted up like a rattle snake....unless you decide to go for a super conda which are patternless other than theirfaces and are a personal fave of mine. (Like you I adore solid colored snakes!)

Other than colors, these guys are easy to maintain, handle, and have fun, very individual personalities. The ONLY drawback is that they can be inconsistent feeders. But again, with a bit of patience, that shouldn't be a problem. The females are larger and heavier bodied, but not thick like a python. They are great as a display animal (i know you said that's not important, but it's something I love about mine) and range from lazy to hyper depending on the one you get. They aren't very fast either, so if you are letting others see and handle them, this makes them less intimidating than a king or milk snake.

According to all of my snake phobic friends, they have come to really like my BPs and my hoggies best. And, when I visit the reptile store, I can usually get scared people to hold a BP or a hoggie without much coaxing.

Hope this helps!

[ngav3]

+1 to hognose. They have a bluff, too, but they dont bite unless they smell food. Fun little snakes.

[macandchz]

dear stiglitz i can only give my opinion on a bp but if you want a nice docile snake that seems to like to be handled and doesn't get too large, and doesn't take much maintenance, i'd suggest an albino ball. i've only had a few feeding problems, no problems with sheds, and believe me i am a beginner.

[Minkness]

Sheds are easy to get right. Just put some coco or cypress down and keep it moist at one end. Mine don't even have substrate since I keep them on antibacterial rubber shelving liners and I get consist sheds.

Also, 1 bad shed won't kill a snake. Several bad sheds around an important body part (like the neck) could cause death...but not one or even 2. I got a rescue BP that had a bad shed and like 4 stuck eye caps and once I got her cleaned up from shed and caps, I have NO ither issues with her! From the same pwrson I got her from, I got a female hoggie who was so dehydrated her skin felt like sandpaper and she took like 3 MONTHS to finally shed. Ince she did, her scales felt like butter!

So, BP or hognose is my vote. They are great pets, require little maintenance, and if you mess up, they are hardy and forgiving.

[Stiglitz]

So you like earthly colored snakes huh? Im the same, i really like the more natural colors. If you dont mind the size, look into boa constrictors. If the size is an issue, look into dwarf boas such as hogg island or Nicaraguan, but be aware the dwarf boas tend to be a little more nippy as babies than a common boa (boa constrictor imperator). They do tame out as adults however, especially with handling.

Wow, I had no idea that a dwarf boa existed... Boas turned me off because of their large size. But a dwarf boa that only gets around 6 feet? That's awesome! I really love boa eyes. I'll definitely look into this.

Sheds are easy to get right. Just put some coco or cypress down and keep it moist at one end. Mine don't even have substrate since I keep them on antibacterial rubber shelving liners and I get consist sheds.

Also, 1 bad shed won't kill a snake. Several bad sheds around an important body part (like the neck) could cause death...but not one or even 2. I got a rescue BP that had a bad shed and like 4 stuck eye caps and once I got her cleaned up from shed and caps, I have NO ither issues with her! From the same pwrson I got her from, I got a female hoggie who was so dehydrated her skin felt like sandpaper and she took like 3 MONTHS to finally shed. Ince she did, her scales felt like butter!

So, BP or hognose is my vote. They are great pets, require little maintenance, and if you mess up, they are hardy and forgiving.

Hognoses do look like cute little guys. I do prefer a slightly larger snake, but hognoses are just too cute to look over.

Do you suggest any websites, videos, or articles that focus specifically on BP (or general snake) humidity and shedding?

[Stiglitz]

dear stiglitz i can only give my opinion on a bp but if you want a nice docile snake that seems to like to be handled and doesn't get too large, and doesn't take much maintenance, i'd suggest an albino ball. i've only had a few feeding problems, no problems with sheds, and believe me i am a beginner.

That makes me much more confident hearing that from a beginner. From my understanding, female ball pythons get to a much larger size than males right?

[ngav3]

While boas can reach sizes of 7 foot+, it really doesnt happen that often. Most common boas top out at about 6', and the dwarfs around 4-5'

[Stiglitz]

While boas can reach sizes of 7 foot+, it really doesnt happen that often. Most common boas top out at about 6', and the dwarfs around 4-5'

Oh, so in reality common boas average about the same length as a maxed out adult Honduran milk snake? That's good to hear.. And from your experience the commons aren't very nippy?

[Lefitte]

You might also be interested long tailed boas. They stay smaller and are very docile. They have very natural colors as well. However, they arent as common and may be a little hard to find especially if you dont want to ship the snake.

[ngav3]

My common boa is the most docile out of all my snakes. Snakes are never tame, but this guy is about a year and a half old and has never even threatened to bite once. Although the length may be the same of a honduran, boas are much more muscular and heavier bodied than a colubrid.

[Stiglitz]

You might also be interested long tailed boas. They stay smaller and are very docile. They have very natural colors as well. However, they arent as common and may be a little hard to find especially if you dont want to ship the snake.

My common boa is the most docile out of all my snakes. Snakes are never tame, but this guy is about a year and a half old and has never even threatened to bite once. Although the length may be the same of a honduran, boas are much more muscular and heavier bodied than a colubrid.

Cool, thanks guys! After some quick 10 minute research, it looks like dumeril's boas and rosy boas seem like the best fit for me.. I'm given the impression that they are very docile, respond to handling well, and are a bit smaller than the common boa. Any thoughts in regards to whether or not they're a good boa to start off with as a beginner?

[ngav3]

Both are great.

I think its best that you go out and handle an adult boa before you get one, however, so you can get a firsthand feel of how your snake will be at adult size.

[Minkness]

Rosy boas are tiny. Keep that in mind.

Also, all of them have vastly different looks. Find one you like the look of. I'm personally not a fan of how rosies look. So it is something tokeep in mind.

[ngav3]

^exactly. Rosy boas dont even come close to the size and strength of an adult dumerils

[Stiglitz]

Both are great.

I think its best that you go out and handle an adult boa before you get one, however, so you can get a firsthand feel of how your snake will be at adult size.

Yeah, I handled a juvenile pueblan milk before, and even though it was a juvenile, I realized how squirmy the little guys can be.

Rosy boas are tiny. Keep that in mind.

Also, all of them have vastly different looks. Find one you like the look of. I'm personally not a fan of how rosies look. So it is something tokeep in mind.

^exactly. Rosy boas dont even come close to the size and strength of an adult dumerils

I'll do some further research. What are your guys' opinions on water for a rosy? Some websites say they place a dish of water in their cage for only one or two days out of the month, some disagree and keep a dish of water every day, but still making sure the humidity is low.. It's as if this snake's humidity requirements are the complete opposite of a BP! :p

[Lefitte]

I held a juvie dumeril's boa in preparation for my brb and totally loved it!

[ngav3]

Hmm, thats interesting about the rosy boas. I dont know much about them, but i would keep a water bowl in all the time, as long as the humidity stays where it should be

[Minkness]

I personally believe water should always be available. Just use a smaller dish if needed.

I also liked the dumeril I held before, but I was sold on a hog island, so found a breeder I liked and will be pouncing on this years litter in late summer. =)

[Tiny Boidae]

If the humidity increases too much, then increase ventilation. If you're using a glass aquarium though, I can guarantee that won't be a problem. Kenyan sand boas get the same advice thrown around, and while a week without water won't kill them, it probably will be against their best interest still to withhold it.

Btw, while you're looking at rosies, why don't you look at sand boas to? Rufescens seem to be exactly what you're looking for as far as color goes

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e721d3df690f3ddd55b1d62dcb1dd455/tumblr_mg9u2gY8gt1rc26vgo1_1280.jpg

People who are deathly afraid of snakes often times don't even need convincing to hold a sand boa, which are arguably small as a boid can get. They'll usually just ask if it's venomous and when I say no, they'll reluctantly take it and come to appreciate them. I've never been bitten aggressively by all but one of my boas, and he's a special case there. They also will NOT miss a feed. I had my calm male who was acting deathly sick last night while he was in shed and he still ate without any fuss. They usually take about a month or so once you get them for them to start eating though, so don't be alarmed if that happens. If, after a month, they still won't take their first meal, just gently press the snout of the mouse to the snout of the snake gently and hold it there. Where braining, scenting, leaving overnight, and all that fuss failed, snout-pressing worked for me. They never turn down a meal after that hurdle :)

Although, to be fair, they do have problems shedding and this seems to be the case with every sand boa. I learned the trick a few months ago and got my first full shed from my female (without assistance) by giving the eco-earth a good misting as she started to shed her skin. Worked like a charm :)

[Stiglitz]

Hmm, thats interesting about the rosy boas. I dont know much about them, but i would keep a water bowl in all the time, as long as the humidity stays where it should be

I personally believe water should always be available. Just use a smaller dish if needed.

I also liked the dumeril I held before, but I was sold on a hog island, so found a breeder I liked and will be pouncing on this years litter in late summer. =)

If the humidity increases too much, then increase ventilation. If you're using a glass aquarium though, I can guarantee that won't be a problem. Kenyan sand boas get the same advice thrown around, and while a week without water won't kill them, it probably will be against their best interest still to withhold it.

Btw, while you're looking at rosies, why don't you look at sand boas to? Rufescens seem to be exactly what you're looking for as far as color goes

http://41.media.tumblr.com/e721d3df690f3ddd55b1d62dcb1dd455/tumblr_mg9u2gY8gt1rc26vgo1_1280.jpg

People who are deathly afraid of snakes often times don't even need convincing to hold a sand boa, which are arguably small as a boid can get. They'll usually just ask if it's venomous and when I say no, they'll reluctantly take it and come to appreciate them. I've never been bitten aggressively by all but one of my boas, and he's a special case there. They also will NOT miss a feed. I had my calm male who was acting deathly sick last night while he was in shed and he still ate without any fuss. They usually take about a month or so once you get them for them to start eating though, so don't be alarmed if that happens. If, after a month, they still won't take their first meal, just gently press the snout of the mouse to the snout of the snake gently and hold it there. Where braining, scenting, leaving overnight, and all that fuss failed, snout-pressing worked for me. They never turn down a meal after that hurdle :)

Although, to be fair, they do have problems shedding and this seems to be the case with every sand boa. I learned the trick a few months ago and got my first full shed from my female (without assistance) by giving the eco-earth a good misting as she started to shed her skin. Worked like a charm :)

Thank you so much for all of the information that everyone has provided! It has been very helpful and useful and I will keep this thread as a reference to supplement my further research. To be honest, I probably won't be getting a snake until two or three years from now, after I've graduated from college. But it can never hurt to start early, and be sure that I know what I'm getting into before actually purchasing a slithery fellow. Also, my girlfriend hates snakes, so it helps to keep breeds like BPs and other well mannered snakes to convince her when we eventually move in together! :p I hope to see some of you on this forum in the future, and hopefully it will be on a thread of me showing off my new best friend.

[dannybgoode]

If a boa is tempting you look at the Central American boa constrictor imperator. They stay on the smaller side and can be stunningly beautiful ( note I am a little biased as I have one).

Even at 6 months old she is very calm, feeds well and is everything I hoped for.

Pic below