View Full Version : Keep your cats indoors.
Just walked in on the family cat with a blue tongued skink in its mouth, It looks to be only a few months old and about 10cm long (4 inches).
This infuriates me, Ive urged my mum to keep the cat inside. Cats are a serious threat to our native Australian wildlife and are the #1 killer of native species (apart from humans).
The skink looks to have internal bleeding and has clear puncture wounds along his back and has been vomiting blood since I found it. I wouldn't be surprised if it dies within the next hour.
http://s27.postimg.org/nqqeoglgj/IMG_2109_3.jpg
Stupid f*cking cat.
macandchz
02-07-16, 08:28 PM
isn't there way to save it?
Minkness
02-07-16, 08:38 PM
Poor thing =(
I can whole heartedly say mine are kept inside!
I really hope so, Ive set up a tub for her with a boatload of lettuce and banana, not much else I can do. On the bright side she's stopped vomiting and is eating. So hopefully we can release her once she's better. :) http://s8.postimg.org/cylt8ckd1/IMG_2115_1.jpg
http://s9.postimg.org/uty7trs33/IMG_2117.jpg
Minkness
02-07-16, 08:45 PM
F it lived, I'd just keep it...but I'm bad that way...sooooo...yeah!
F it lived, I'd just keep it...but I'm bad that way...sooooo...yeah!
Funny you say that Minkness i was just thinking the same thing! Glad you got to the poor bugger in time before the cat gobbled it up :(
Yeah, I could, but I'm not a particularly avid lizard keeper, I prefer snakes. And I think she would have a better life in the wild.
EL Ziggy
02-07-16, 09:16 PM
Nice job helping the critter Sam.
pet_snake_78
02-07-16, 10:54 PM
Sadly, irresponsible cat owners can only rarely be persuaded by way of reason. IN my experience, people just want to do whatever they want regardless of the impact on wildlife. It is extremely aggrivating that I build ponds and brushpiles for wildlife while my neighbors let their cats run wild.
Akuma223
02-07-16, 11:35 PM
Cats belong inside, no exceptions. Strays should be euthanized, outdoor cats illegal, and spaying/neutaring mandatory by law for dogs and cats unless a breeding license is purchased. All cats and dogs should require collars with proof of vaccinations and/or microchips by law. It sucks but these animals are invasive and destructive and humans clearly can't take care of them properly and have to be made to do so.
Our government's hypocrisy is ludicrous here.
macandchz
02-08-16, 09:32 AM
dear sam, i'm so glad you made an attempt to save the skink.
fishingfool
02-08-16, 10:32 AM
Agreement is complete and I'm from the us where our wildlife isn't that special or endangered other then stuff cats cant really kill other than a couple birds of corse, dogs have leash laws why can't cat owners step up and leash there pets poor little bugger i wish him luck
AZretic
02-08-16, 10:32 AM
Our government's hypocrisy is ludicrous here.
I laugh at this. If I'm not mistaken there are several more times the amount of feral cats in Florida causing havoc than Burmese pythons yet they don't seem to care. I agree any stray cat dog needs to home or euthanized. I love dogs but hate cats but to be fair we can't have them just running around free
Minkness
02-08-16, 11:07 AM
Cats belong inside, no exceptions. Strays should be euthanized, outdoor cats illegal, and spaying/neutaring mandatory by law for dogs and cats unless a breeding license is purchased. All cats and dogs should require collars with proof of vaccinations and/or microchips by law. It sucks but these animals are invasive and destructive and humans clearly can't take care of them properly and have to be made to do so.
So love this idea! If only it would actually happen. =/
bigsnakegirl785
02-08-16, 08:41 PM
There's more than just environmental impact to worry about with outdoor cats, the cat is in danger, too. I'll never understand people who say they care about their animals but then just keep them outside.
I'm in agreement with Akuma here, there's no reason to keep your dog or cat outside. If you can't control the dog/cat because you don't have time to play with it, don't have pets. It's that simple.
KrokadilyanGuy3
02-10-16, 12:21 AM
This is one of my biggest irritants. And the ol' "Oh look, the cat brought me a present"..
Florida Fish and game want to get rid of the "Python problem" we have here by putting a bounty on their heads and making it a cool contest to see who can get the biggest one. Sure, they can and do eat local, native fauna and are introduced but the way they advise it, they blow it way out of proportion.
We also have a huge stray cat issue. Florida's response to it is to capture the animals, fix them and then release them back into the wild. They literally just released over a hundred cats a few weekends back in one area..
The stupidity is crazy.
Then you have the people flipping out when not only their pets but strays get killed by coyotes and foxes and then want to kill them because they're the annoyance..
I have a cat, kept inside. However, we must tread carefully when discussing cats. Feral dogs do just as much damage, but some people don't realise it, whilst others simply ignore that fact.
I hope that bluey recovers, take good care of him there Sam!
I have a cat, kept inside. However, we must tread carefully when discussing cats. Feral dogs do just as much damage, but some people don't realise it, whilst others simply ignore that fact.
I hope that bluey recovers, take good care of him there Sam!
He's recovered well, I might have exaggerated as I posted in the moment of it all. I released it back into the hills near our home, hope he fares well.
I understand dogs are just as much of a problem, but they're a different animal. Our dogs usually stay in our backyard only, and spend most of the day inside.
Dogs also seem to appreciate their owners whereas our cat seems to only use us for our assets, food, water, etc. and spend the rest of the day in the hills or in our neighbor's yard. I'd definitely call our cat borderline feral, but I couldn't say the same for our dogs. Though I do agree that cats aren't the ONLY problem.
Electra
02-10-16, 06:42 AM
Wow! Well done! I'm from UK and never seen a skink before. Glad you saved it! Totally agree with what's said about cats and dogs, even though our family had one of each ad well as fish and snake. Pet owners just need to be responsible and our family is living proof that its possible! It annoys me to see so many cats just constantly out and about in my area, I often wonder why the owners have them? Dog chipped and always taken out on lead, cat kept in! My youngest and eldest daughters love their cat and dog, me, my husband and 11 ur old daughter are snake mad! Being responsible is defo the key!
serpentgirl123
02-10-16, 08:12 AM
I agree with the responsibleness of pet owners, but keeping a cat indoors really depends (imo) on the cat and where you are. I have had both indoor and indoor/outdoor cats. The cats before the ones I have now--were far too manic to be kept inside and I tried my best to keep them inside ONLY, but they were tearing up the house, knocking everything over--ended up giving them to a family that had a farm where they could be let loose. They did exceptionally well there. Cats do go crazy being cooped up (wouldn't you lol) and some need a fair amount of stimulation--same thing is happening with my new indoor cats.
Imo Cats are just miniature lions and tigers. They are not domesticated like dogs.
When I get my house rebuilt, I am putting in a new fence called the "Purrfect Fence," allows the cats to be outside but in the restraints of the yard.
Minkness
02-10-16, 08:17 AM
I'm building a kitty porch that is basically like a screened in porch, but I'm leaving the grass down. Also foing to build a big kitty tree for climbing and scratching. And then I will have toys and stuff there too. My kitties will be so spoiled lol.
serpentgirl123
02-10-16, 08:29 AM
I'm building a kitty porch that is basically like a screened in porch, but I'm leaving the grass down. Also foing to build a big kitty tree for climbing and scratching. And then I will have toys and stuff there too. My kitties will be so spoiled lol.
Nice Mink! Mine will be too once the fence is up lol. I don't know how much they will want to be out there given they are rescues and super skittish, but I like to give them the option.
macandchz
02-10-16, 10:56 AM
dear sam,how's the skink doing?
Minkness
02-10-16, 01:36 PM
Mac, Sam said they it go all ready.
As for the cats liking the oyt doors...we'll see. Iplan on putting up a 3 foot solid fence to make my skittish girl more comfy, but I know my other one will looooove it. He already tries to get out when we have the door open.
He's recovered well, I might have exaggerated as I posted in the moment of it all. I released it back into the hills near our home, hope he fares well.
I understand dogs are just as much of a problem, but they're a different animal. Our dogs usually stay in our backyard only, and spend most of the day inside.
Dogs also seem to appreciate their owners whereas our cat seems to only use us for our assets, food, water, etc. and spend the rest of the day in the hills or in our neighbor's yard. I'd definitely call our cat borderline feral, but I couldn't say the same for our dogs. Though I do agree that cats aren't the ONLY problem.
Glad to hear he got better.
It's okay, I wasn't attacking you lol. Was just trying to show that given the chance, any animal can harm the environment. Cats do show love, but they are more reserved about it then dogs.
Electra, you are 100% correct. Owners have to be responsible. I personally disagree with confining a cat to indoor life if it wants to leave, provided all precautions are taken. Desexing, for example, should be done even for indoor cats as it helps prevent diseases. Putting a bell on can mean the difference between life and death for a bird. And microchiping is always recommended.
At the end of the day though, it is unfortunately the irresponsible owners who he the last laugh, and that gives all cats and name.
Cheers,
Herpo
macandchz
02-10-16, 02:31 PM
sam, for once a story with a happy ending. usually when it's something about an animal in the wild, it goes the other way.
Lefitte
02-11-16, 03:07 AM
I've never understood why people let their cats outdoors. They are incredible predators and do a lot of damage and being an outdoor cat also takes off about half of their lifespan at least. I do understand some cases like if the cat was feral before or a stray and is used to roaming outside it can be very hard to convert it but I've heard of people getting a kitten and saying 'oh it'll be indoor/outdoor'. What? Why? You only get 15-20 years if LUCKY with your cat, why do you want to make it more like 7?
I have 5 cats, ages 2-13 years old. The only time my cats are allowed outside is when they are in our arms, a carrier, or a leash. When I notice my cats acting jittery and neurotic, I take them out and it drains their excessive energy. Just like a dog.
My cats are also insanely attached. They definitely do not use us just for food like a lot of people say. My oldest will sit and meow at my mom the entire time I'm gone. My youngest [-my- youngest is the 5 yo] will sit at the door and stare and cry when I leave. My youngest was also born with a cleft palate so he's been bottle fed his whole life. I'm rarely even a room away from him, he follows me everywhere, asks to be picked up and held, ect. I'm a firm believer in cats being extremely sensitive to a person's energy and that the way you treat them and feel about them completely changes the way they react to you. My cats are fairly well mannered and understand the house rules and what 'no' means and all that. I just don't understand when people don't think they can have that kind of relationship with cats or throw it away by allowing their brand new cat to be indoor/outdoor. Whenever I hear about an indoor/outdoor cat, my first gut response is always this childish voice going "Don't you love them at all? Care about them?" When mine get out, I worry myself sick that people will hurt them, they'll get run over, into cat fights, cat diseases, ect. I just don't get why you would choose an outdoor cat.
That being said, I totally get barn cats as well. They do a job and your home and business benefits from that job being done well.
And super happy the skink made it! I've been looking into them and would like to get one some day =D
I think only a cat owner can understand the love and affection they give us.
I think only a cat owner can understand the love and affection they give us.
Spot on about that because i definitely can't understand it. Sorry dog person here. theres always 1 :P
Lefitte
02-11-16, 03:14 AM
Agree with that completely! I didn't understand it before I had it either.
I love both dogs and cats, just prefer cats. It's good to have some people liking different animals though.
Our cat has her own little routine. Every night, before we go upstairs, she hides under the curtains and waits for us to pass, tapping our feet as we pass. She then follows us upstairs, and settles down on her Pillow Pet on the end of the bed.
In the mornings, she waits by my bed. When I wake up, she meows ad gets me to pat her while she eats. Then she sits on my bed, purring the whole time.
It takes a long time to understand their body language and how they behave, and you have to earn they love, but get to know them and they really are awesome animals.
Cheers,
Herpo
macandchz thanks for that, I just hope the skink can settle into the new environment comfortably.
trailblazer295
02-11-16, 05:07 PM
For those that question a cats affection, just last night within 10 seconds of climbing into bed she jumped on the bed and laid down tight against my side purring away. Often she starts purring before she has picked a spot to lay down, can hear her in the dark. Sounds like a little engine idling lol
Piggybuns
02-11-16, 07:03 PM
When I get my house rebuilt, I am putting in a new fence called the "Purrfect Fence," allows the cats to be outside but in the restraints of the yard.
Haha my friend was going to do this for her cat Luna but she needs to put the supplies together for her! The difference is she was going to call it the "Lunie Bin" XD.
I'm glad the skink baby did alright! I woulda kept the lil bugger but I'm biased because I'm getting ready for one in October-November this year. .X
pet_snake_78
02-11-16, 07:42 PM
I have cat and dog and both like for me to pet them and to lay on me. Cat is less work than the dog because the dog needs to be walked but not bad if you have a invisible fence.
LISA127
02-13-16, 09:48 AM
There's more than just environmental impact to worry about with outdoor cats, the cat is in danger, too. I'll never understand people who say they care about their animals but then just keep them outside.
I'm in agreement with Akuma here, there's no reason to keep your dog or cat outside. If you can't control the dog/cat because you don't have time to play with it, don't have pets. It's that simple.
That was my thought too. Being outdoors is a threat to the cat as well.
prairiepanda
02-13-16, 11:53 AM
In my experience the cats that spend most of their times outdoors are the ones that mostly just see their humans as a source of food. They might be affectionate towards humans, but don't treat them like family and tend to prefer the company of other cats or else total solitude. In contrast, strictly indoor cats seem to be the ones that bond very closely to their owners and become lifelong companions rather than pets. My cat, and all the cats my family has had over the years, have been indoor-only cats and have never been destructive except when they were kittens and still learning the rules. They get some closely supervised outdoor time once in a while, but they're perfectly happy indoors. My cat is trained to leave small ground-critters alone, for the safety of various other pets I have had and currently keep, but she hasn't been trained with birds so if she were outside unattended that could be a problem.
I do agree that there needs to be much more strict regulation on cats, everywhere. Some cities have really good controls in place for dog ownership, but nobody seems to care about the cat problem.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 02:15 AM
I would never keep a cat indoors. They are not indoor creatures. Sorry, just the way I feel. And no, my cats do not just see me as a source of food either.
There was an interesting documentary on the life of cats here I the uk and they tracked every cat in a small village and the amount of wildlife kills was way below what anyone thought it would be. Will try and find a link. Not saying cats don't kill wildlife- they do but not nearly to the level previously thought.
But no, imo cat owners who let their cats out are not irresponsible. Those that keep them cooped up indoors are...
RAD House
02-16-16, 02:27 AM
Cats numbers are not being threatened by a cat being shut indoors, where as song bird numbers are definitely by outdoor cats. Your reasoning is flawed. Outdoor cats pose the biggest threat to wildlife of any pet species, and it seems to be of no concern for most. Be responsible and spay or neuter your cat, and if you insist on putting your little killer outdoors then put a bell on it.
I'd say only let a cat outdoors in Urban areas where native birds are less likely to be. Where I live, cats are cleaning up the population of invasive indian mynas. I'd still not let my cat out, would hate to walk out to her dead on the road...
Our cat kills rodents often, only problem is we live right next to a large natures reserve, which he enjoys roaming. And as a result, the native wildlife from the reserve often come onto our property, this includes snakes, lizards and kangaroos.
But thats all good cause in a few years the cane toads will dawn upon us and kill all the feral cats and natives anyway, so it doesn't really matter in the long run. ;)
bigsnakegirl785
02-16-16, 12:25 PM
I would never keep a cat indoors. They are not indoor creatures. Sorry, just the way I feel. And no, my cats do not just see me as a source of food either.
There was an interesting documentary on the life of cats here I the uk and they tracked every cat in a small village and the amount of wildlife kills was way below what anyone thought it would be. Will try and find a link. Not saying cats don't kill wildlife- they do but not nearly to the level previously thought.
But no, imo cat owners who let their cats out are not irresponsible. Those that keep them cooped up indoors are...
My cat of 6 years is gone forever because my roommate thought like you. He opened the door because she was yowling, and she ran out because she was in an unfamiliar place with unfamiliar people (she was there to be babysat for a few days and didn't even make it through the first day). I looked for weeks for her, and she's been gone 3 years now. She was scared of the outdoors, every time we took her out for monitored outdoor time (imo the only responsible way to allow a cat outdoors), she would freak out and scratch to get back in. She was raised outside, too, because her mother was an outdoor cat and that's where she was born. Her mother now happily lives inside by the way, after living 7-8 years as an outdoor cat. She's now around 10-11 years.
A cat outdoors is open to being poisoned, being run over, being eaten by predators, being open to communicable diseases, parasites, torture by sadistic kids/adults, etc. So no, it is irresponsible to allow a cat outdoors, not indoors. An indoor cat can be kept happy by exercise and play time, and maybe some outdoor time on a harness or enclosed porch. Feral cats, as mentioned in the thread earlier, can sometimes be a different story. Some come around, some do not. That doesn't make being kept outdoors any less dangerous or irresponsible, though.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 12:31 PM
one of those areas we'll have to agree to differ. I too have lost cats to traffic accidents and I still maintain they are outdoor creatures and should not be cooped up 24/7 indoors. I hate the thought.
Interestingly here in the UK the law to some extent recognises that cats are all essentially wild animals as legally you do not own a cat and are not held responsible for it's actions as you would be say a dogs.
I appreciate though there are some things that people will never agree on...
I'm extremely allergic to cats so I don't keep them, but I definitely agree that they should be kept indoors. Feral cats are a scourge and should be euthanised in order to control transmissable disease.
Anyone who thinks it to be cruel to keep a cat inside at all times because they belong outdoors should really reconsider keeping reptiles, or anything else for that matter, as a pet.
eminart
02-16-16, 01:46 PM
I would never keep a cat indoors. They are not indoor creatures. Sorry, just the way I feel. And no, my cats do not just see me as a source of food either.
There was an interesting documentary on the life of cats here I the uk and they tracked every cat in a small village and the amount of wildlife kills was way below what anyone thought it would be. Will try and find a link. Not saying cats don't kill wildlife- they do but not nearly to the level previously thought.
But no, imo cat owners who let their cats out are not irresponsible. Those that keep them cooped up indoors are...
I'm going to guess that the documentary you watched hardly did the research that goes into real science. Keeping cats outdoors is ecologically irresponsible.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cats-kill-more-one-billion-birds-each-year
LespaceSerpent
02-16-16, 02:36 PM
I don't see a problem with a well-cared-for cat being both indoor and outdoor. As lot as the cat is properly cared for, spayed/neutered, and vaccinated. Our cats have very rarely brought anything to our door and it was never birds only voles that had been burrowing in our yard. They know they can come in the house whenever they would like.
Now stray cats that just wander around breeding, spreading disease do need to be taken care of but I don't believe in going through neighborhoods euthanizing cats for being outside. Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.
Tiny Boidae
02-16-16, 03:00 PM
The problem with a lot of outdoor cats is that they might be well cared for and fed, but instinct still tells them to kill. So they'll kill for the sport of it and that hurts a lot of species. Cats are an invasive species so a lot of birds and small animals aren't evolved to deal with this trophy hunter, so that puts them at an unfair advantage. And in a lot of urban areas, cats don't have anything to fear except cars, so feral cats are able to breed profusely especially since people will often leave kitty food out for strays, which tips the balance even more since natural selection isn't able to weed out as many of the cats.
I agree that unwanted animals should be euthanized if not adopted within a certain amount of time, and feral cats should just be flat-out euthanized unless they're below a certain age. We have too many unwanted animals, and as you said animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed. Why is it okay for them to kill billions of birds and not okay to euthanize these animals? I say that the government needs to step up and put some funding towards environmental causes for a change and stop building shiny new tanks.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 03:09 PM
Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.
The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.
I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.
A cat outdoors is open to being poisoned, being run over, being eaten by predators, being open to communicable diseases, parasites, torture by sadistic kids/adults, etc.
Your personal belief about the figures and their lack of accuracy doesn't disprove or discredit the fact that you are irresponsibly exposing your pet to the above risks for absolutely no good reason in my opinion...but then again...it is your pet after all.
I must ask...do you feed all of your collection live prey?
RAD House
02-16-16, 06:08 PM
A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 07:07 PM
Your personal belief about the figures and their lack of accuracy doesn't disprove or discredit the fact that you are irresponsibly exposing your pet to the above risks for absolutely no good reason in my opinion...but then again...it is your pet after all.
I must ask...do you feed all of your collection live prey?
No. A) there is no need as my boa is happy on f/t and B) even if I wanted to it's actually against the law here in the UK to feed live rodents.
Again, I don't know if it's a locality thing but the vast majority of cats are let out as and when they want.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 07:13 PM
A week of observation, are you joking? That could in no way be considered accurate in a scientific sense. Saying there is plenty of birds is like saying there are plenty of mammals and we should not worry about any species that is declining. The loss of single species of wild bird could have tragic effects on an environment. Birds are mainly migratory so to say you have not observed a decline is asinine.
But the fact remains that of cats killed at the rate some studies suggest There simply wouldn't be any birds left where there is a significant population of domestic cats.
Based on the numbers I've seen cats in the uk alone would be killing some 3bn + animals pet year which would be an unsustainable number. They simply aren't killing that many animals.
Anyway as I said earlier it's a bit pointless me getting involved in this as I have my views and others theirs and we ain't never going to agree...
No. A) there is no need as my boa is happy on f/t and B) even if I wanted to it's actually against the law here in the UK to feed live
I wasn't aware of that, good to know. I would consider feeding snakes live prey even if they readily took f/t being comparable (as far as unnecessary exposure to possible harm) to having a cat who you let outside all the time while they may very well be happy inside...so I really was curious to see if your reasoning carried over to our hobby as well.
dannybgoode
02-16-16, 10:54 PM
Over the past 40 years (i.e since I was born) I have owned or lived with 13 cats. Only 2 have never returned home due to potential accidents. However I'm pretty sure one of them just got fed up and moved in with someone else.
The dangers of them being allowed out doors are in my opinion overstated. As I say in the UK at least it is very unusual to keep a cat as a house cat and again I very rarely hear of cat owing friends losing theirs also.
Yes it happens but then people lose the odd reptile to accidents however caused, vivs being left open etc.
Lefitte
02-17-16, 12:48 AM
Maybe it's a little different in the UK then. I personally know of at least 3 cats who have been lost due to coyotes. I have seen many dead cats run over by cars in the road. I have personally stopped children from beating a stray with a stick when I was little. Maybe cats aren't in as much danger where you live, but there's no denying it where I live. There are several studies currently going on about how much cats roam and how much they actually kill, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe in a few years we'll have some better information about that.
LespaceSerpent
02-17-16, 01:01 AM
I guess the part that bothers me about this thread is saying that we are irresponsible in the way we keep our pets. The only time I hear about lost cats in my area is when they were indoor cats that got out rather than outdoor cats gone missing. I love my pets very much and we do take care of them.
dannybgoode
02-17-16, 01:04 AM
Good point re predators. In the UK cats don't really have any natural predators-the odd fox may give it a go but unless the cat was very young or sick I wouldn't rate it's chances...
Animals have been killing other animals for as long as they've existed and it's going to happen one way or another.
I believe this statement is fundamentally wrong regarding this argument. No offence.
Every ecosystem has a very fine balance, my 9 year old sister pulled the same argument as you did saying "oh, it's natural for him to kill things, its the circle of life." Cats are not native, they disrupt the natural balance of the ecosystem, same with dogs.
Saying animals kill other animals is only relevant to the ecosystem that was crafted for those very specific plants, insects and animals that are designed for that environment. When you introduce an alien species to an environment, it can cause massive damage to the ecosystem and tip the fine balance that has been formed over millions of years.
It may be different in the USA where foreign animals are introduced willy-nilly but here is Aus we've had severe problems with introduced species. The cane toad, rabbits, honey bees, wasps, foxes. Many native species have gone extinct.
This all comes down to humans in general, we're a pretty big failure in the long run. The planet has thrived for billions of years, and after a mere thousand after humans started booming, the planet has gone to sh*t.
In the end it's not the cats fault, it can't help it's tendencies to be a nuisance. It's the owners fault.
RAD House
02-17-16, 08:44 AM
Well said Sam. Lespace you have two choices. One is you can be upset and ignore the facts, or two you can make a change and positively affect the world you live in.
I'm going to guess that the documentary you watched hardly did the research that goes into real science. Keeping cats outdoors is ecologically irresponsible.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cats-kill-more-one-billion-birds-each-year
YES! This is a great example, thanks Eminart.
Here's what Slinkey said in the comments:
"I think people have to do some math.
Scenario: 1 bird kill per week per cat, so 52 kills per year for one cat.
To make 1 billion kills, divide by 52 kills and you get the number of cats needed:
1 billion/52 = ~19.2 million cats.
Number of cats in the contiguous US is ~114 million
So if 17% of the cats in the US killed one bird per week it would make over a billion birds killed per year.
If we divide 1 billion kills by 114 million cats we get ~9 kills per cat per year.
I wouldn't mind betting the numbers in the article are actually conservative figures."
Very well said, Slinkey.
I'd like to add that these 'documentaries' were most likely not pointed toward scientific analysis. They were likely oriented to the casual viewer and made by a bunch of guys who stuck cameras to some cats to see where they went. For entertainment, to see how 'shocked' the owners were when Mr. Fluffles went and had a kitty affair with the neighbors. *DRAMA ALERT*
I've seen these 'documentaries' before, lol.
LespaceSerpent
02-17-16, 11:16 AM
For future reference, being aggressive and comparing one to a child isn't really the way to make someone want to agree with you.
For future reference, being aggressive and comparing one to a child isn't really the way to make someone want to agree with you.
I meant no offence Lespace. All for the sake of debate, I was just laying out my points.
I was comparing you to my sister only because what you said was VERY similar to what she said, and because my sister's linear view was similar to yours in my eyes.
I'm not here to cause drama, I'm sorry if I've offended you Lespace. :)
Albert Clark
02-17-16, 02:17 PM
I agree! Here in N.Y. the stray dog and cat population is out of control. Some people think it's so nice to feed these wild populations thus making the problem larger. They leave cat food in front of the building and or take it directly to the cat. I mean, why don't they just take the cat up to their apartment? Don't they know that these cats are diseased and urinate and defecate all over the place? Absolutely sickening!
bigsnakegirl785
02-17-16, 09:58 PM
Thing is the figures don't stack up. There aren't billions of birds a year that are accessible to cats in cities where the majority of domestic cat populations are. Further if the numbers were true then wild bird populations would have long been wiped out in cities by now also.
The numbers some of these studies come out with simply aren't achievable and the numbers are generally extrapolated.
I will dig out the link to the documentary I mentioned. Their figures were obtained from actual observation of a population of cats over av period off a week or so and their genuinely was very little killing.
I can't remember the last time I witnessed a kill by my two. The only thing I recall them going for is the odd monster rat that has got in to the house. And, I my immediate neighbourhood there is a healthy population of outside cats and lots and lots of birds. Again, of each of the cats in my area were killing the 150 a year or whatever this birds population simply wouldn't exist.
You do realize the majority of cat's range is actually rural or farmland, right? Not all cats live in the city, and they've wiped out entire islands of animals of all kinds (birds, reptiles, rodents, you name it) because none of the inhabitants had any natural predators.
The thing is, if your cat is roaming free it's only logical to assume you're not going to see 90% of what they kill. Because they don't bring everything home, and you're not there to watch them.
I don't know about the UK, but it's incredibly common for people to come and poison your pets, antifreeze seems to be a favorite. It's also really common for kids to torture cats. One of the cats we found was drowning in a storm drain, and since there was literally no connections to that drain, it was just straight down with two grates, we can only assume some sick kids grabbed him up and stuck him in there. It's also common for kids to kick strays through the air, rip their skin off, break bones, set them on fire, etc. Animal torture of this nature is an epidemic in our country.
My old neighbors had dogs, and they'd sic them on our outdoor cat, and one of her toes is mangled, luckily she was able to get up in the insulation under our house before the dog did any more damage, but they were always treeing her. Once we moved, she was brought indoors, the only troubles she had was getting along with her kids, but once that was done, she's shown absolutely no trouble being kept indoors, and has never made a run for the door.
And driving around here in town, where we have high number of strays, I see at least 3-4 dead cats on the side of the road every week or every other week. That's over the area of several blocks, not just one area, though. I live in a different area, so I don't go out that way much anymore, but it's only a few minutes drive away. I've seen more stray cats appear and die off over the 7 years my mom lived there than I care to count.
dannybgoode
02-17-16, 11:59 PM
I think as this debate has rumbled on it is clear that there needs to be a distinction between a well looked after, well fed domestic cat and feral / essentially wild populations introduced on islands etc.
I am not disputing that feral cats are a problem - more so in some countries than others but yes they are an issue. No question and they do need to be curbed. Like any animal it is the responsibility of the owner to make sure their cat is spayed / neutered etc to prevent populations getting out of control.
Similarly, populations of cats introduced in to delicate ecosystems are again a real problem (think kakapo parrot - nearly extinct due mainly to cats and rats - both introduced).
However, a well fed 'domestic' cat generally cannot be bothered with hunting and killing and more recent studies are beginning to show this (the documentary I mentioned was reasonably scientific although limited in scope was thorough in its presentation and I will find another I have seen).
I see no issue with letting a well fed, well looked after cat out who has been vaccinated and has been spayed or neutered. These are not the cats that are causing the issues so saying to a responsible cat owner 'keep your cat indoors' is imo not sound advice. Of course, if intentional poisoning is rife in your area or you have coytoes kicking around then sure you may decide its safer for the cat but this is not necessarily the case everywhere.
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