Possible RI in honduran milk snake...

[Arachnaeoccult]

My 5 foot honduran is big which may be a contributing factor to this. He does't seem to have excess mucuous, he's not yawning at irregular intervals. I've heard a couple of clicks but not consistently. I heard burrowing can do this. He shed 6 days ago and has since eaten.

I think the winter got him down a little. His whistling noise seems to happen when he's climbing up toward my shoulders mostly. It might be his scales. Some exhalation seems forced but I could be mistaken on that too. I'm preparing a eucalyptus and vicks vapor 'bath' for him. I regret putting him in such a small box though.


Edit: checked on him this morning. no popping, just the whistling sound that seems to happen from his slithering around. His symptoms have lessened to non-existent. Still gonna vape him just to be safe. His nose isn't mucuosy or otherwise fluid covered unless a slight 'cold and wet' touch against the tip of his face is an indicator.

I also note taking out his hide because he isn't using it much and I feel that the extra space granted by removing it was better than having him constantly coiled in half his 10 gallon (I'm still getting him a 55 gallon).

[Minkness]

Ireally hope you aren't actually going to put him in a bath with those things.... Also, that's not a cure, it just aliviates some symptoms.

If you feel he really does have an RI, bump his temps and take him to a vet.

[Andy_G]

Those products shouldn't be used with snakes. It could even be stress since it seems like you haven't left him alone since you got him like people here, myself included, have told you to do.

What are his temps?

[Arachnaeoccult]

His temperature should be the same as the ball python. This is Florida and that the heat builds up in that room hotter than outside (unless I turn the AC on). But he has a warm side he's not using right now. Right now its 1 cold day/night out of a entire week.

The vet is a possibility but right now its so minor in symptoms it might completely clear with the vicks and eucalyptus oil (it was on another thread and its a known homeopathic remedy which can in fact cure the respiratory infection if done early enough).


Right now he has no symptoms except for a whistling sound but I'm starting to wonder if its the scales themselves sliding across my shirt


I've left him alone just fine, I checked him yesterday at the end of the day and found his anxiety lessened after picking him up. This morning I picked him up in a ball and he was okay with it. In a few days he's come a long way.Who wouldn't be a little congested curled up like that anyway (one reason i felt a need to remove the hide- if he needs something he can use a shirt until I move him to a bigger enclosure. a shirt has worked for my ball python all month and she identifies it as her hide. Its cozy and fits around her body. the hide I bought barely fits for both snakes and it would be a joke to try and make any of these tupperwares work.

I think between moving stress and the recent winter he might have come down with a very mild RI.

The vet here would only cost me $140 or so in an emergency.

[Minkness]

If you use that method, you don't put the snake in it. You just but a bit on something like a paper towel and then put it in a container with holes in it. Like a disposable tupperware. Also, it's not a CURE. It is an AID. It merely helps open air ways which makes it easier for the snake to breath.

Being 'warm' when healthy is fine, but if a snake has an RI, being warmer is better. Kind of like with a person, we get fevers to help battle viruses and stuff, snakes can't have their own fever so we need to provide them that by upping the heat.

What is your temps and humidity right now?

[Andy_G]

His temperature should be the same as the ball python. This is Florida and that the heat builds up in that room hotter than outside. But he has a warm side he's not using right now. Right now its 1 cold day/night out of a entire week.

The vet is a possibility but right now its so minor in symptoms it might completely clear with the vicks and eucalyptus oil (it was on another thread and its a known homeopathic remedy which can in fact cure the respiratory infection if done early enough).


Right now he has no symptoms except for a whistling sound but I'm starting to wonder if its the scales themselves sliding across my shirt

That information is straight up bogus. A respiratory infection is bacterial and no amount of vicks or eucalyptus will cure it, only possibly alleviate symptoms, but it is not meant for reptiles. Even in people, it doesn't always work, so who would have the expertise to assess how it would work in a reptile of which is physiologically completely different from a human? What a perfect example of mistreating an RI. Do what you want, though...

[Arachnaeoccult]

Right now its a cold morning after an increasingly hot and humid week.
The humidity stays within 60-70%, the temperature within 80-83. the heater I have will dry the air of the room while making it warmer, is it worth the trade?

more humidity can be added leaving the door open while a hot shower runs.
When the temperature of florida reaches a natural 95 with humidity levels through the roof, why would I even need the heater?

[Arachnaeoccult]

That information is straight up bogus. A respiratory infection is bacterial and no amount of vicks or eucalyptus will cure it, only possibly alleviate symptoms, but it is not meant for reptiles. Even in people, it doesn't always work, so who would have the expertise to assess how it would work in a reptile of which is physiologically completely different from a human? What a perfect example of mistreating an RI. Do what you want, I guess...

Guide to Home Treatment for Respiratory Infections (R.I) With Pics - Reptile Forums (http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forums/snake-care-sheets/758431-guide-home-treatment-respiratory-infections.html)



Everything here says its perfect, 100% success rate.

The snake has natural working defenses against an RI, aka its own mucuous. just like a human does the snake is expelling as much infection as it can. Vicks and eucalyptus would clear him up enough to clear the rest on his own. I can also get F10 and a humidifier and perform that whole operation.

[Andy_G]

The f10 thing is bogus too. I'd suggest going to an expo and telling a couple of the pioneers in the hobby about "treating" an RI with f10, a disinfecant or vicks, something that isn't used for treatment of anything for anything... be prepared to get scolded. What blows my mind is the lack of real proof that these treatments work better than raising the heat and humidity alone to help fight off the beginning of an RI. Also...you've picked up your honduran before it's even fed with you so you actually aren't letting it settle in...but anyways...good luck with everything. I have no idea what I am saying so I won't bug you anymore. ;)

[Minkness]

What is F10? O.o

[Arachnaeoccult]

The way to raise the room temperature and humidity would be to let the heater run plugged in to the wall while the shower lets humidity in. the problem with the heater is it dries the air. not significantly but still.

After the 1 cold night the thermogauge is reading 70 and humidity reading 50. Kind of pissed but this winter crap will be over soon and before next winter I can get a better heater and a humidifier for the room.

[Arachnaeoccult]

Part of me thinks he seems better today. He's been in the bedroom by himself for the past two days (in the kitchen I was constantly around and decided to just move him to a quieter spot) which may have helped. No clicking or popping sounds. I'm listening to him closely for signs of struggled breathing.


Last night I might have heard those 1 or 2 clicks and got madly paranoid. the littlest thing causes me to obsess and lose sleep, especially things like this. Before I took the hide out, he had only his body space worth of space to sit regardless of if he was on top, on the floor or inside. Now that I've taken it out I see a difference.



I'm not under the impression the previous owner sold him to me knowing he had an RI (which at this point is only slightly plausible). It could be a slight distrust toward the owner (having him in a 10 gallon all his life) making me extra careful about him.


I really think its the winter guys. Will keep running the hot water and heater throughout the day.

[Arachnaeoccult]

I'll keep my eyes peeled but as he is, just sitting in his enclosure, theres no abnormal sounds or visual clues that he's sick.

I've read that the pop sound could even be a shed stuck in his nostrils. I haven't heard it today.

[prairiepanda]

What is F10? O.o

It's a broad-spectrum disinfectant used mainly in veterinary settings....but it's intended for use on surfaces and instruments, not on animals. The ingredients are non-toxic in their intact form and do not pass through skin, so it's safe for direct contact with animals, but the metabolites produced from breaking them down internally can be toxic to some animals so it is best to avoid any ingestion, inhalation, or contact with open wounds.

[Arachnaeoccult]

I don't think he has an RI.

I might not even use a second treatment tonight.

Other than a whistling sound that i suspect might not even come from his face but his scales rubbing and one or two clicks hes made I have seen no symptoms. I just got worried.


If it becomes an RI issue he can be taken to the vet. I still got all the vicks and eucalyptus oil if I needed to buy time before taking him to the vet.

[macandchz]

dear arachnaeoccult, i sympathize with how you feel. everyone over-worries about something they love. i do it about mac all the time. let us know how he is doing.

[MDT]

Ah yes..homeopathy, the air guitar of modern medicine. Arach, the link you provided was an amazing example of a randomized, double blinded study. Seriously dude, I'm not trying to be a d***, but Andy_G, Mink, and prairiepanda are giving you really good advice man. RI's are exactly that...an INFECTION. It's either bacterial (in which case you will need antibiotics) or it's viral (in which case, you'll just need time)...Eucalyptus, Vicks, or F10 in any dose will not cure one single thing, especially in an ectothermic organism. If your animal appears ill, crack open the wallet, go to the vet, insist on a culture so you know what in the crap is being treated, and you can make certain that it's being treated properly and not just having Baytril thrown at it. You really are getting good council from them.

[Andy_G]

I appreciate you expanding on the matter, MDT. I have heard of this f10 treatment thing before and it really bothers me. Vicks is a new one.


We really are just trying to help you arach. Please don't use these methods to treat a snake even if it's sick and I don't think yours is. Please don't do a second treatment.

[Arachnaeoccult]

Ionly used it once. Today there has been no popping. He may just be at a humidity shortage and a stuck shed is just to probable to me. He was in dog shop over night waiting for me to pick him up, and a bunch of barking dogs were surely unsettling to him. she showed me the shed picked out of the trash, full and healthy but a shed nonetheless. No mucuous, he's EXTRA FRIENDLY today. The 'wheeze' doesn't even happen unless I'm handling. I've put my ear to his enclosure interior and next to his head during handling multiple and theres no clicks or pops. just this dry whistle sound. is there a certain type of whistle to look for? (even mary jane my reg ball python makes this noise, last time it was loose skin on her knows before shedding).

The vicks and eucalyptus is for me now I guess. I get allergies all the time

[macandchz]

glad to hear he's doing better.

[Albert Clark]

I would consider bumping the ambient temperature, and the basking spot temp. In addition, consider switching or adding to your substrate 100% cypress mulch. Take care to be cognizant of your ventilation in the enclosure as well. As you increase the available temperature and humidity you will have to have adequate ventilation. F10sc and Vicks or vapor treatments don't treat the real etiology of a true RI. A visit to a herp vet is always the way to go when you are suspicious.