Important. I would like some help.

[REM955]

Here is the story:
I bought a condo 7 months ago. Other than size, the other requirement stressed was that there be no limitations on pets. As in none. The realtor knew this. The other realtor knew this. The attorney knew this. The previous owner and association president signed a release saying there was no limitations on pets.

Sunday, this list of bylaws was dropped on me. Here is one of the items. I do not know when it was added.
"No animals, reptiles, rabbits, livestock, fowl or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred or kept in any unit or in the common elements except that dogs, cats, or other household pets may be kept, subject to any rules & regulations adopted by the board."

I know it may sound like it would fall under other household pets, but the lawyers I consulted so far said it didn't look good.

Worst come to worst, I would need to present my case in the next meeting this March.
All I can think of in terms of arguments including the following:

AC vents are on the ceiling. Mesh can be added though.
Added locked doors and thresholds to said containing room.
Even if it got past those doors, all the other doors in the unit have no clearance.
Even if..., it is not going to last long without heat. (Chicago Winters, but still pretty much lying)
I have sought out reptile groups for handling.
The new doors (to be installed next week Friday) to the room have locks with thresholds.
Exposure to other tenants. Any danger would be isolated to me. Typical behavior would branch off this.
"You wouldn't have known if I didn't mention it." (scraping...)
Relative seriousness to a cat bite (more scraping...)


I understand the containment arguments if presented here would be laughed at, but I have a shot with these guys. =/

Knowing that I provide a meager presence here, and I hate asking for help, but I would like anyone's advice on any defense.

Worst case scenario, the reptile rescue nearby will get a fully outfitted T20 that's already been ordered.

Thanks for reading.

[Bandit]

Wait, so those rules were not in place when you bought the condo? Also, I know you said "bought" but I just want to clarify...you bought the condo or rented/leased it?

I hate to say it, but if the lawyers are saying that there isn't a way around it, there probably isn't. Your best bet would be to work around the language in the original contract and hope that it could be interpreted to mean that you have the right to keep your pets through the original contract. But again, a good lawyer would have been able to see that if they took a good look at everything.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm not an attorney but if these are new rules then your terms and conditions may be protected or grandfathered under the previous rules. If you have the agreement in writing then you may have some standing. Best wishes.

[REM955]

I understand from a legal point of view my standing does not look good, so I am planning out how I engage the association with reason.

Bandit:
I do not know if the rules were indeed in place at the time. I have asked management if they have a back log of changes made.
I did buy the condo. The unit is in my name alone.

[macandchz]

dear rem955, please keep us posted on your problem. we live in an apartment that allows my dog but i have never let them see mac. when i need work done i hide him. i'll be in bad shape too if they ever come in when i'm not here to fix anything.

[macandchz]

i know this is going to sound far out but would they consider that the snake is an outlet for your anxiety? there"s kids at my daughter's college that get to keep small reptiles because the have anxiety issues ans a pet helps them. all they need is a md excuse and it doesn't have to be from a psych md.

[trailblazer295]

I don't know how things working down there but up here they can say no pets but legally can't do anything aside from allergies. Good luck though, keep us posted.

[REM955]

In terms of the anxiety treatment, I believe that it is because the school is a bit lenient on the kids in that case. It would certainly be in their right, however the HOA could pass a bylaw saying otherwise.

Thanks for the wishes, but are there any arguments one can think to make? I am looking at trying to push a comparison with cats. Not sure I want to explicitly use the term domestic animal.
I did find this just went effective for Illinois, though. USARK supported bill:
Illinois Herptiles Act | USARK (http://usark.org/2014-blog/illinois-herptiles-act/)
Otherwise, the main hope is to leverage the phrase "household pet" not being the same legal phrase "common household pet" which only explicitly includes turtles. With that I can start some movement in my arguments.
Here's hoping. (herping)

[trailblazer295]

Well you can argue they make no noise, no smell and no damage. But damage is irrelevant because as a condo you own it. No one would know you had them if you didn't mention it. You pay your own bills and no one goes into your unit with the exception of your HVAC maintenance. I've done that before in a no pet condos and we saw dogs, cats, fish, reptiles. Only person we reported was a dog because he was snarling and barking at us the moment we cracked the door and no one was home. We didn't care if you had pets but we had to write down why we didn't do the work in that unit.

[REM955]

Thanks for your input, trailblazer. Though I imagine that the poop would have to smell a little bit. That may be a concern as the AC system is supposedly linked. I know the smell of pot isn't coming from my unit...

And here is one of the disclosures from the property manager at the time of closing.

As long as the language does not change, I can try to use this to strengthen my hold.

[trailblazer295]

Thanks for your input, trailblazer. Though I imagine that the poop would have to smell a little bit. That may be a concern as the AC system is supposedly linked. I know the smell of pot isn't coming from my unit...

And here is one of the disclosures from the property manager at the time of closing.

As long as the language does not change, I can try to use this to strengthen my hold.

Unless your building is different from any condo I've ever been in it isn't. Your ductwork is your own, you live in a concrete box with a fan coil or heat pump in the wall behind a metal panel. Only system that's linked is the hallways. Each unit has it's own heating/cooling. A fan coil being you get heat or cool when the building changes the water temp or a heat pump where you get to choose with a compressor and refrigerant.

[REM955]

It is not quite a concrete box. It seems like a cinder block build with a brick veneer.
As for the floors and ceilings can see that it is flexicore, I think it is called.
But yes, the AC unit is for me alone. Eh, oh well. Back on topic.

[trailblazer295]

It is not quite a concrete box. It seems like a cinder block build with a brick veneer.
As for the floors and ceilings can see that it is flexicore, I think it is called.
But yes, the AC unit is for me alone. Eh, oh well. Back on topic.

That means your HVAC is yours alone so your ductwork isn't connected to any other unit. So no air from yours to someone elses condo. Whatever gets under your front door into the hall is whatever. Reptiles are legal, pot isn't so nice to see the priorities of this building.......who knew the stigma of reptiles was worse then pot

[RAD House]

That means your HVAC is yours alone so your ductwork isn't connected to any other unit. So no air from yours to someone elses condo. Whatever gets under your front door into the hall is whatever. Reptiles are legal, pot isn't so nice to see the priorities of this building.......who knew the stigma of reptiles was worse then pot

Depending on where the op lives this may not be true.

[trailblazer295]

Depending on where the op lives this may not be true.

True but 48 of 50 states it is.

[RAD House]

Actually 20 states have legalized medical use.

[trailblazer295]

Actually 20 states have legalized medical use.

I was thinking Colorado and another I can't think of that decriminalized it. I don't include pot use in my statement. Medicinal pot is legal here but the rest isn't.

[chairman]

The rule says no reptiles, so you're stuck. If you want to live in the condo then your only chance is going to be looking at the bylaws and determining what you need to do to change the rules or get a waiver. If they specifically passed the rules because they knew you were moving in then I wouldn't be optimistic.

Otherwise you'll probably need to do a combination of suing the parties responsible for the false advertising and selling the condo to find an alternative home. A lawyer (not your original real estate lawyer) would have to be retained to determine who might be sued, but don't expect much more than a refund of fees/commissions and your lawyer's fees; probably won't get anything in damages. Subletting may be an option until it is sold but that'll be up to the condo bylaws too.

I had to pass on several homes due to HOAs that prohibited wild animals, which is what my state classifies reptiles as.

[REM955]

Update: Talked to an attorney and he said that the bylaw used was pretty much just your default, boiler plate phrase. If it got to court, I would have to be able to prove that said snake is a pet. I gave him the record size on wikipedia for a bullsnake, even though the woma is smaller, and he didn't think there would be an issue. "Enjoy your snake."
The goof up that the management made, if it is one, only makes my case stronger.

[Bandit]

I mean if the agreement you had when you bought the place was that you could have reptiles, then they can't rescind on that. I would say you have a pretty good argument considering you were expressly told that there were no limitations on pets.

I just wouldn't mention anything to anyone - if no one knows you have them, then the issue won't be raised. However, if it did go to court for some reason then you should have a strong case if you said you would not have bought the place if they would have told you they were prohibited. I think the best argument you have is that you specifically asked about reptiles and they told you it was fine.

But, I don't think there will be any issues. Most places don't care as long as they don't cause damage, pose threats to anyone, etc.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm glad everything worked out for you REM. Having written consent from the previous management definitely works in your favor. I hope the issue is settled and you can relax and enjoy your snakes. :)

[macandchz]

rem-so glad you are keeping us posted on your problem. really hoping things go your way.

[Albert Clark]

Join your states local herpetological society. They are usually affiliated with state universities and teaching hospitals. Get as much documentation as you can showing the reptile being involved in research and teaching studies through the herpetological auspices. Maybe apply for a hunting license as well. The other help would be to obtain a vendors "certificate of authority". Vendors certificates of authority go through your local states licensing offices and will help in documenting your authority to have such "live harmless reptiles" in your possession.