how can i humanely kill a mouse

[macandchz]

i think i'm going to have to start feeding macandchz fresh killed mice. i live close to the pet shop so i can get a live one with no trouble. my daughter says i need to drown it. do i stick it in a box and sub-merge it or what? how do i know it's really dead? i think i'd have a stroke if it started moving when i go to feed it to mac.

[ManSlaughter33]

do NOT drown it that's horrible...
I only buy frozen thawed but the most common method is CO2 chambers or neck snap :/

[AZretic]

Ha ha drowning is not humane. Hell they may be the worst method ever. Get dry ice warm water to creat co2. Google euthanize mice and there are tons of videos etc

[macandchz]

ok drowning is not the way i'm going. i am going to continue to use f/t and mac will have to learn to eat them again. do you think he would really starve if he doesn't get what he prefers? i may have the first stubborn suicidal snake! he's eventually got to eat something, right? i'm really worried about him.

[Aaron_S]

How long has it been?

[macandchz]

he ate his last f/t on dec 2. after reading some of the posts, i guess that really isn't that long.

[Bandit]

Unless he's rapidly losing weight, no need to worry. Snakes can go a long time without eating. Plus, it's winter so that could very well be contributing to it.

[Klaire]

Glad to hear your not drowning the mouse as that is not humane at all.. As others have suggested check out gas chambers on youtube the ingredients to create it are cheap too

[AZretic]

I've had a retic go on food almost 3 months before. No need to worry

[dannybgoode]

Is this a ball python? From memory it is. Look at the video I posted a link to in the ball python forum about their fasting habits. Should put your mind at ease...

[toddnbecka]

I simply throw mice onto the (concrete) floor, kills them instantly. Not a commonly recommended method, but I've never had one survive it. I wouldn't recommend that for for anythng much larger than a mouse though, certainly not a good-size rat.
If you want to use CO2 and don't have easy access to dry ice, baking soda and vinegar will produce CO2 as well.

[Arachnaeoccult]

I hear large rats can use a good wack of the head/neck on a hard surface. Expect the possibility of blood. I'd rather have my neck snapped/lethal head trauma than die in a freezer.

[sirtalis]

Yeah, I just take the mouse/rat by the tail and swing it fast and hard into a solid surface!
Cervical dislocation works too, one of my friends would put several large rats in a pillow case and swing it as hard as he could against a wall or concrete floor, I feel this is actually more humane than co2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opwXJ7MgjPE

[RAD House]

I would stick with the CO2 method. It is more reliable than blunt force trauma or cervical dislocation. I have tried cervical dislocation and failed at it, it was not a pretty site and was certainly not painless for the mouse. Unless you have someone who knows what they are doing to show you the method, I would not attempt it. I in no way believe that blunt force trauma is painless, not to mention rats can be tough so if it does not die on the first attempt you are causing the animal undue pain.

[macandchz]

are you guys really serious about smashing mice into concrete or are you just putting me on? has anyone ever tried to feed a ball python something else besides rodents? i won't ever do it but i was just curious if anyone has ever heard of one eating lunch meat or something made from meat. i heard you can scent their food with tuna and can leave small pieces of the tuna on the mouse. could they eat something like a sardine,maybe? i think i'm just wishful thinking.

[Aaron_S]

are you guys really serious about smashing mice into concrete or are you just putting me on? has anyone ever tried to feed a ball python something else besides rodents? i won't ever do it but i was just curious if anyone has ever heard of one eating lunch meat or something made from meat. i heard you can scent their food with tuna and can leave small pieces of the tuna on the mouse. could they eat something like a sardine,maybe? i think i'm just wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking. Stick to rodents.

Edit: I don't mean to offend you but I probably will with this but.... I think you should re-think your choice of pet if you're trying to find ways for it's feeding to accomdate your preferences and not its own.

I'm not saying you don't love the animal or care for it well but if feeding may become an issue and you're trying to find non-rodent alternatives it might be time to think about something else.

[Humble308]

With pinkies I just flick them hard in the back of the neck and that pretty much instantly kills them. I do the same with peach and small fuzzies. Eventually they get big enough where this method isn't as ethical. With the bigger mice I take them by the end of the tail and swing them into the edge of the counter. You're not swinging a baseball bat here so take it easy, an accurate moderate rap kills them instantly. Like ToddnBecka I've also thrown them on the floor, but it's not a method I'm extremely comfortable with. Depending on the angle the mouse hits the floor can cause some issues.

When I cull my breeder mice I do it all in one go and then freeze them. It's not a pleasurable thing to be smacking baby mice into things so this method might not be for you. I've also tried C02 gassing with mixed results. If I had hundred of mice to kill then I'd probably opt for this, but for a litter of 15 it's not really necessary or economical. In your case of once mouse at a time it'd be $30-40 investment for the most basic C02 set up, at that rate you could just buy a pack of 50 mice for the same price F/T and have food for almost a year.

Swinging by the tail has worked well for my uses, but I'm sure it differs for everyone. All the best.

[RAD House]

In my opinion there in no better prey than whole rodents for most snakes, especially ball pythons. That being said there is a product called reptilinks that are like sausages for reptiles. Some people swear by them and there are some threads covering them. The creators are supposed to have done quite a bit of research on reptile nutrition. First warning is that they have many different kinds and you may want to talk to someone in the company to get the correct ones for a ball python. Second warning they are more expensive than frozen feeder mice/ rats. In my honest opinion I wouldn't use this product because of the price and nature already made a all natural freezable source of snake food in the form of mice. You can absolutely not feed a snake lunch meat mostly because of all the additives and also because it would not be balanced nutrition. A whole mouse prey offers more than just the nutrients found in the meat but also nutrients found in the bones and organs, like calcium and iron.

[macandchz]

very interesting reply about the reptilinks. of course i will stick with rodents but that answers a question i've wondered about for a long time-if there really was something out there snakes could eat. as for me re-thinking my choice of pet...i inherited mac when the college my dtr attends said he had to go. at 69yrs old i think i have done very well with him and i love him immensely. he lives in a wonderful 40 gal. tank and is a very happy boy. i knew nothing about snakes when i got him but thanks to youtube and this great forum I am learning so much. thanks to everyone.

[Jim Smith]

I've been trough this dilemma before and I don't believe that there is an easy fool-proof answer. I ended up where I would pick up the (food item) by the tail, and when it tilted its head backward to horizontal, I would smack it with a steel rod. It ain't pretty and sure ain't fun, but it was effective. Pretty much instant death even though they twitch a bit.

[Arachnaeoccult]

NEVER EVER EVER FEED YOUR SNAKE MEAT! They absolutely need the nutrients from the bones and organs of their prey item to benefit and grow.

[Sasha2]

Make sure your warming up the frozen thawed enough. Some snakes hate cold food.

We use a paintball canister with CO2 to put down rats/mice, it works pretty fast.
I tried whacking a mouse against a wall once.Actually I asked my son to do it and he splattered the thing all over, it was disgusting.

[Handyhens]

Rodents are the best way to go. Chances are a BP wouldn't recognize fish as food. Sometimes ball pythons will just stop eating for a few months. It's normal.

[prairiepanda]

Make sure your warming up the frozen thawed enough. Some snakes hate cold food.


^ This. ^
Especially with snakes that have heat pits, like ball pythons do. Make sure your f/t mice are warm to touch when you serve them. Just use warm water to heat them up; you don't want to cook them.


If you're already doing that, then for now just be patient and keep offering once a week or so. It hasn't been an excessive amount of time yet.

[sirtalis]

are you guys really serious about smashing mice into concrete or are you just putting me on? has anyone ever tried to feed a ball python something else besides rodents? i won't ever do it but i was just curious if anyone has ever heard of one eating lunch meat or something made from meat. i heard you can scent their food with tuna and can leave small pieces of the tuna on the mouse. could they eat something like a sardine,maybe? i think i'm just wishful thinking.

I'm 100% serious abut smashing a rat into the floor, my friend who owned a Nile monitor, Columbian boa, and Burmese python would do it on a weekly bases, I would also think that a sardine's or tuna's sodium content would be wayyy to high for most reptiles, I know it does sound rather brutal but everything has to eat. BTW most lunch meat is processed in way worse conditions than the rat that would smashed to the floor :(
The REAL Price of Meat | One Cow's Heartbreaking Trip to Slaughter | Videos | PETA (http://www.peta.org/videos/the-real-price-of-meat-one-cows-heartbreaking-trip-to-slaughter/)

[macandchz]

up date on macandchz ; he ate afresh killed large mouse today. i bought a live one, put it in a sock, and hit it against the brick wall of our balcony. he was very dead and i lived through it,too. when i went to the pet shop to buy the mouse the clerk told me i wasn't allowed to ask for a feeder mouse. i had to call it a common mouse as the gov't doesn't want you to buy them for food. has anyone else heard of this? also, he said you can't buy a pet mouse for your snake because they have been fed additives that will kill your snake. when i put the mouse in mac's feeding container he acted totally weird. he smelled it for a while, ignored it for awhile, then came back and actually laid on it! he never tried to constrict it but after 5 minutes began to gobble it down. now he's happy and i'm happy!

[toddnbecka]

Can't call it a "feeder mouse" because of government regulations? Fed additives that will kill your snake? Sounds like someone needs thier medication adjusted, or else they're just full of BS.
Maybe you should wrap aluminum foil around your enclosure to keep the aliens from sending your snake messages...

[macandchz]

hey i know you think i'm nuts but i swear that's what the guy told me. he said he himself owned a golden boa and i figured since i'm the novice and he worked in the shop and owned a snake he knew what he was talking about. so clarify this for me. can i buy a mouse called a pet mouse and feed it to my snake? or are they fed something that could harm him? as far as i know mac hasn't received any messages from mars!

[Tiny Boidae]

There's no such thing as a "golden boa". You'd been had. The employee probably thought that deception was the best way to carry out store policy, and this is the result. There's no such law, there's no such additives, and there's no such boa. It's perfectly safe, and I doubt anyone thought you were the insane one, but rather the stupid advice you've been given is obscene. I don't trust Petco, but they let their mice be sold as feeders. If you have no one else in the area that'll sell you feeders, they're your go to source.

Optimally, you want to get into contact with someone who actually breeds mice. A quick run around Google and Craigslist and other sites will get you this. Here's one of the ones I found:
Fancy Mice (http://www.furryfriendsrus.com/Mice.htm)
Good luck :)

[macandchz]

dear tiny boidae. thax so much for the helpful post. i live close to pgh and have a close petco. the place that told me that other junk was pet supplies plus. i like petco better and that is actually where i bought macand chz. he had mites while in the store and they sent him to a vet and took care of them before they'd let me take him home. i haven't had a mite problem since.

[hphgamer09]

You should have no problem finding a local rodent breeder being that you live around the pittsburgh area. If you have facebook, find one of the local reptiles groups.

[sirtalis]

A golden boa...

[Tiny Boidae]

A golden boa...

He probably has a goose that lays golden eggs too :rolleyes:

[Andy_G]

macandchz I would strongly advise you to disregard much of what they tell you at the store you went to. We can help you here, instead!

Also, the only real problem with getting a pet mouse and using it as a feeder is the ridiculous price you would have to pay. It is far from cost effective.

[toddnbecka]

I didn't mean you were the crazy one, I was referring to the idiot pet store employee that told you such a bunch of bull. There's a local pet shop that won't sell baby mice for feeders, even though they also sell baby corn snakes and ball pythons, but they will sell adult mice for feeders w/out giving you any crap along with them. I bought a few adults from them to get a breeding colony started, then ended up losing the male mouse to some strange disease, and one of the females ate her babies. Picked up a few more mice at the Hamburg show, and now I have loads of them coming along every week. Check out a local reptile show, you'll get healthier stock for a much better price than from a pet shop IME.

[macandchz]

dear toddnbecka thanks for the reply. my problem is that i live in an apartment so ican't raise anything on my own and have to buy only 1 or 2 at a time that mac has to eat as soon as possible. my snooooty neighbors would probably have heart attacks if they saw mac much less knew i had a mouse somewhere! that would never fit my sweet little old lady next store image! which is part of the fun of having him! we do have a good petsmart near-by and when i called them yesterday they said they had no trouble with selling me them. hopefully, when mac gets a little larger i can switch to f/t rats.

[sirtalis]

He probably has a goose that lays golden eggs too :rolleyes:

probably ;p

[toddnbecka]

If you can get the snake to take frozen/thawed mice you can pick up a quantity and freeze them for later use. I currently have more mice, rats, and quail chicks than people food in my freezer. A few of my snakes will take rat pinks but not mice, one pair of the smaller Domincans were fed f/t quail by the breeder and the male seldom eats anything else. Along with the frozen rats and quail I get shipped in I also have to thin out the mouse farm weekly, and I'm freezing more than I'm using for feeders now. Considering just freezing almost all of them and separating the rest, they're simply breeding too many to quickly, even with feeding off the males as they grow out.

[macandchz]

dear toddnbecka it sounds like you are very busy! my goal is to get mac back on to f/t as that's what he was on before winter. now he's on this kick where he will only eat mice that are immediately killed. someone suggested he'd convert back quicker if i tried a f/t rat but mac is kind of on the small side and i want to wait until he gets a little bigger.

[toddnbecka]

Have you tried thawing them in hot water to warm them up? I put my frozen feeders in a plastic ziploc, then into a plastic pitcher partly filled with hot tap water, and weigh it down so the "meat" is submerged (but not in direct contact with the water.) Aside from temperature there shouldn't be any real difference between f/t and fresh killed.

[macandchz]

dear toddnbecka, i do use hot h2o to warm them up but my method is putting the mouse in a plastic cup, heat the water in my tea pot and pour it over the mouse. i do not put it in a plastic bag. then i dry off most of the excess h2o and give it to mac in a seperate plastic feeding bin. does it matter if the mouse is wet? i give him about 15 min. to decide if he wants it or not. i can tell right away if he's not interested because he'll move to the other side of the bin and ignore it. when he's hungry, he goes right for it. i take the lid off the bin at the end so he can stretch his neck to swallow. do you have any suggestions to improve my method?

[RAD House]

you may want to try teasing him with the food by wiggling it in front of him. I have noticed that some of my snakes, including my ball python react well to this. Of course you want to use some tongs while doing this to save yourself from being bit. I place the feeder in a cup with tap water as hot as it gets, which in my house is quite hot, and let it thaw. I then replace the water with new hot water to give the feeder a final warm up. I do not worry about drying the mouse off as a little extra water is never a bad thing for them. I try to feed them in a place where there is less chance to get bedding on the food, be that on a cage feature or paper plate. My ball python usually hides her head in fear when I open her enclosure so I wiggle the mouse in front of her nose until she decides to show herself. I then wiggle the it several inches from her face, and bam she hits it and curls around it.

[macandchz]

dear mesocorney thanks for the reply. good to hear the wetness of the mouse is ok .i never really see my snake drinking from his bowl but i do see him lapping at the droplets of h2o when i spritz his tank to keep the humidity up. i'm actually surprized that mac doesn't seem that crazy about water. i bought a big bowl thinking he'd sub-merge himself but he skims over the top of it and never goes in it. is that typical of a ball?

[serpentgirl123]

dear mesocorney thanks for the reply. good to hear the wetness of the mouse is ok .i never really see my snake drinking from his bowl but i do see him lapping at the droplets of h2o when i spritz his tank to keep the humidity up. i'm actually surprized that mac doesn't seem that crazy about water. i bought a big bowl thinking he'd sub-merge himself but he skims over the top of it and never goes in it. is that typical of a ball?


I don't know if it is "typical" for a Ball Python, since I don't own one. But my more tropical oriented snakes (Boas and Carpets) absolutely despise water lol. Only time I have ever seen them drink or on the rare occasion get into the water is when they are about to shed or it gets too hot in the house. If I spritz them with water, they act like it is acid and retreat as fast as they can--makes for a good deflective mechanism if they get a little too food aggressive when I open the enclosure. Spritz of water and they back off--no need for gloves or hooks lol.

[Zelg]

Been trying to get my BP to switch from live to f/t for a bit now and I'm just finally having success. I do really hate this process because I dont enjoy killing them. Fortunately, just as I was getting ready to finally do CO2 I decided to try prekilled. I tried a few things. Most were inhumane. The first time, I tried drowning it....god what a horrible experience. I just used tongs and held it under water. One time was enough. Of course it also got it wet. It took longer than I thought it would which made the experience that much worse.

Lately i've just clamped down needle nose pliers around their neck and crush it. Goes fairly quick.

My Ball wouldnt even sniff F/T mice. However, using prekilled for a few feedings seemed to help. The first few times he'd strike and coil. The past few feedings, I've held the dead mouse in my tongs, he would come inspect but wouldnt strike and would even move away when I moved the dead mouse towards him. I decided on just leaving it there and he took it when I left the room. Then I came back and did another.

After I think 2 successful pre-killed feedings, I went back to F/T and set them on my heat mat at 93 degrees. Another time I set it at 85 and i think that was too cold. Once warmed up and thawed, I did the same, teased him to get him out of his hide and hten just set it down and he was good to go.

I've only gotten about 3 good feedings with F/T so far but its 3 more than the previous 2 1/2 years.

[sam]

Honestly I'd just put it in the fridge until it passes, but then it defeats the whole purpose of a fresh/warm mouse. Another thing you can do is break it's neck to break the spinal cord, if you know what you're doing It's the most humane and quick way to end it's life. But if you mess up it will be the opposite and will cause alot of pain to the animal.

Ive seen people put them in a sock or bag and slam them into a wall or something but that sounds a little brutal. But if i can say one thing DROWNING is NOT a humane way to kill anything. Especially mammals.

[macandchz]

dear serpentgirl123, thanks for the reply. your description of what your snakes do when you spritz them is exactly what mac does . he takes off for the closest hide.

[macandchz]

dear sam, thanks for the reply. i might give freezing a try but i'll really have to package it well! the first time i brought home f/t i put them in a container you couldn't see through but i didn't bother to label what it was. my husband who is kind of sqeemish about my whole snake thing went looking for a snack and i don't have to tell you the rest. now i make sure i label every item!

[macandchz]

dear zelg, that's just what mac has started to do. when he was younger he'd attack and coil. now i wiggle it, he sniffs at it, and i just drop it in. if he's hungry,he eventually eats it.that brings up a good point. just how hot should the mouse be that you feed them? i don't want to burn mac but as soon as they cool down he rejects them. i try re-warming them but then he doesn't act interested.

[Andy_G]

Putting it in the fridge of freezer until it passes is almost as bad as drowning. Extremely inhumane and a much more drawn out death compared to even cervical dislocation done wrong. Please do not do this.

[Zelg]

dear zelg, that's just what mac has started to do. when he was younger he'd attack and coil. now i wiggle it, he sniffs at it, and i just drop it in. if he's hungry,he eventually eats it.that brings up a good point. just how hot should the mouse be that you feed them? i don't want to burn mac but as soon as they cool down he rejects them. i try re-warming them but then he doesn't act interested.


Well while reading posts about switching from live to F/T I saw a lot of people warn about getting the prey too warm. 1) you could cook it and apparently thats no good. 2) apparently guts can explode out during a strike/coil if they're too hot. No idea how true that is but I figured it wasnt something I wanted to find out.

I first offered them heated up with a heat mat at 84 degrees. To put that in perspective, thats the temp of his hot side of his cage. Basically I tried to serve room temperature food lol. He barely sniffed it before he backed up into his hide again.

So the next day I do a couple more mice but this time at 93 degrees. I figure its only a few more degrees than room temp and probably close to a mouses internal temp. No idea what their temp is just thought I'd try a little warmer since he took prekilled (as in i killed him and immediately offered to the ball). Worked like a charm and his last two feedings have been F/T so I'm feeling VERY happy about this especially looking back when he was I think about a year old, he went off feeding for 4 freaking months in the summer.

I tried using water to warm them up but I just found it difficult to get a precise temp on the mouse with it. Not to mention the bags leak...even ziplock bags will leak and you end up with a wet mouse. Another possible reason why he refused.

Basically, I advise trying different methods if you feel like what you're doing, you're doing correctly and its not working.

Also, I'm currently feeding my guy 2 mice. The first one I have to lure him out of his hide and then wiggle a little to keep him interested but since that first strike and coil he's prefered me to just set it down once hes out. I set it down, leave the room, light off and come back 25 minutes later and do the second if the first is gone.

Hope you have success, good luck!

[macandchz]

dear zelg, i'm confused. do you mean you wrap the mouse in the heat pad? and how did you get the temp of the pad? the ones i use just stick on the glass but don't tell me the temp. i have a thermometer that tells me the temp of the enclosure and i have one of those ones that are hand-held.

[Zelg]

dear zelg, i'm confused. do you mean you wrap the mouse in the heat pad? and how did you get the temp of the pad? the ones i use just stick on the glass but don't tell me the temp. i have a thermometer that tells me the temp of the enclosure and i have one of those ones that are hand-held.


Sorry I guess I could have been more specific in my setup when thaw them.

I have a heat mat that I just set on a table, plugged into a thermostat. I have a $30 hydrofarm i think it is. Anyways, you plug the mat into the thermostat, lay it on a flat surface and take the thermostat probe and set it right on top of the heat mat. If the probe wont stay by itself, lay something on the cord of the probe to keep it in place on the mat.

Next, (I tried laying them on a folded paper towel but not enough heat got through I guess.) lay the mice on the heat mat and set the thermostat to 93 degrees and come back to check on it in about 30 mins.

Reading your post again, im not sure if you mean you have those round stick on thermometers or a heatpad that just sticks on the glass.

A hand held thermometer will be good with seeing the temp of the mouse but of course wont regulate the temp of the heat mat. you need a proper thermostat with any heat mat.

Hope this helps.

[macandchz]

dear zelg-i think we were talking about 2 different things. i have a large heating pad that sticks on under my tank and one on the outside of the tank right where his hot side hiding log is. the thermometer is a probe type thing that has a dial that sticks on the outside of the tank. i double check that with the hand held one. i think you have something more complicated. but thanks for the advice.

[Zelg]

dear zelg-i think we were talking about 2 different things. i have a large heating pad that sticks on under my tank and one on the outside of the tank right where his hot side hiding log is. the thermometer is a probe type thing that has a dial that sticks on the outside of the tank. i double check that with the hand held one. i think you have something more complicated. but thanks for the advice.


Theres nothing complicated about it. We're still talking about thawing and warming up mice right? I simply have an EXTRA heat mat and thermostat that are not used for a snake. I use that to thaw and warm the mice. Plug the mat into the thermostat, place probe on mat, place mice on mat, wait 30 mins, voila! Warm mice.

But if I'm misinterpreting what you're having problems with I apologize and hope someone else can chime in.

[macandchz]

dear zelg i got it up to plugging the mat into the thermostat. what's the thermostat? my mat plugs directly into the outlet. will this work without a thermostat? it sounds like a good plan.

[sam]

Putting it in the fridge of freezer until it passes is almost as bad as drowning. Extremely inhumane and a much more drawn out death compared to even cervical dislocation done wrong. Please do not do this.

What we need to remember here is that some of us feed LIVE rodents to our herps, which is a far worse death than almost anything Ive seen in this thread. It's on the same level as drowning, which is asphyxiation.

I believe that dying in a fridge is okay, as the mouse goes to sleep peacefully. However i think you may be right Andy. Ive used this method on crickets and woodie roaches. What I seem to have not talking into consideration is that mammals are completely different from insects. I used this method to 'euthanise' my sick hermit crabs when I was VERY young. So I guess the thought just stuck to me.

[Andy_G]

What we need to remember here is that some of us feed LIVE rodents to our herps, which is a far worse death than almost anything Ive seen in this thread.

I strongly disagree with this statement, Sam. CO2, whacking, and dislocation are all quick and easy, but in regards to DROWNING or FREEZING TO DEATH SLOWLY,constriction is WAY quicker and therefore more humane by a longshot. It's a predator killing it's prey quickly and efficiently versus a talking monkey confining it to freeze to death slowly and painfully (unconscious does NOT mean without pain for this kind of death!!!!!) for hours or making it swim to exhaustion and inhaling water. That, my friend, is what we should be remembering.

[serpentgirl123]

I strongly disagree with this statement, Sam. CO2, whacking, and dislocation are all quick and easy, but in regards to DROWNING or FREEZING TO DEATH SLOWLY,constriction is WAY quicker and therefore more humane by a longshot. It's a predator killing it's prey quickly and efficiently versus a talking monkey confining it to freeze to death slowly and painfully (unconscious does NOT mean without pain for this kind of death!!!!!) for hours or making it swim to exhaustion and inhaling water. That, my friend, is what we should be remembering.

I agree 100% Andy!

I have watched my snakes (when I fed live), constricting their prey and the animal was usually dead within a few minutes or less depending on how they grabbed/coiled it.

I personally prefer CO2 and dislocation as I find this the most humane methods of killing a feeder rodent/mammal. I had to get over my own personal "uncomfortable" feelings about dislocation when I did it myself (when I fed pre-killed), but I did and got efficient and good at it with practice.

I just personally got tired of doing it and it was safer (for the snakes), easier (on me), and less expensive buying F/T as I didn't want to take care of any more rodent colonies (been there and done that). I spent more time, money, and effort trying to protect them from my cats so that I could feed them to the snakes.

[sam]

I strongly disagree with this statement, Sam. CO2, whacking, and dislocation are all quick and easy, but in regards to DROWNING or FREEZING TO DEATH SLOWLY,constriction is WAY quicker and therefore more humane by a longshot. It's a predator killing it's prey quickly and efficiently versus a talking monkey confining it to freeze to death slowly and painfully (unconscious does NOT mean without pain for this kind of death!!!!!) for hours or making it swim to exhaustion and inhaling water. That, my friend, is what we should be remembering.

My apologies Andy, I went into this thread with fairly little knowledge and spoke without much to back up my opinions. (As I don't breed or deal with live prey items myself)
Ive done some research and the vast majority believe that breaking the neck or CO2 is the safest and most ethical way of euthanising mammals. Atleast in the herp community.

Everyone thank Andy for pointing out our flawed methods and helping to point OP and the less educated in the right direction.

However I don't think the monkey's will appreciate you putting them DOWN to MY LEVEL, Don't be so offensive! ;)

Sincerely. :)

[Andy_G]

My apologies Andy, I went into this thread with fairly little knowledge and spoke without much to back up my opinions. (As I don't breed or deal with live prey items myself)
Ive done some research and the vast majority believe that breaking the neck or CO2 is the safest and most ethical way of euthanising mammals. Atleast in the herp community.

Everyone thank Andy for pointing out our flawed methods and helping to point OP and the less educated in the right direction.

However I don't think the monkey's will appreciate you putting them DOWN to MY LEVEL, Don't be so offensive! ;)

Sincerely. :)


Sam, I appreciate that! We are all here to learn and help. Some of us who have been on here or around the hobby for a while may come across quite bluntly, myself included, but it is certainly not to offend.

Also, I must apologize to the monkeys. ;)

[RAD House]

For mice with small bodies and no fur freezing is actually a quick and painless death. I agree drowning is a needlessly stressful death. To insinuate that being crushed to death is painless is rediculous in my opinion, no matter how short a time period. If done right cervical dislocation and co2 asphyxiation are the best methods. Cervical dislocation actually ruptures the nerves that allow us to feel pain. Many people use the method of blunt force trauma to kill mice but I won't do it because I don't want to put a mouse through the experimentation phase. Also it feels a bit disrespectful, but this is only my personal feeling. Most large feeder companies use CO2 because it is the most humane way. Humane death leads to higher quality food, just ask any hunter.

[Zelg]

dear zelg i got it up to plugging the mat into the thermostat. what's the thermostat? my mat plugs directly into the outlet. will this work without a thermostat? it sounds like a good plan.


Google Hydrofarm Thermostat. They are $30. You plug the thermostat into the wall outlet. You then take your heat mat and plug that into the thermostat. Theres a plug outlet on the thermostat. You can also plug in radiant heat panels and I'm sure ceramic heat emitters as well.

So, thermostat plugs into wall. Heat mat plugs into thermostat. Lay the thermostats probe on the heat mat (weigh it down/set something on top of the probe cord to keep it in place). Set the thermostat to your desired temp and then place the frozen mice on the heat mat.

[macandchz]

thank you, zelg! got all of it now. sounds like a great idea and i'm going to give it a try.

[Zelg]

thank you, zelg! got all of it now. sounds like a great idea and i'm going to give it a try.

Excellent! I'm glad i was able to hell you out. Good luck with the feedings.