The closest to a rattlesnake or cobra without venom?

[Arachnaeoccult]

Whats the closest thing to a rattler or a cobra that someone can find on the pet market which holds little to no venom(little meaning like a tarantula or scorpion sting) ?

[Jocarp]

Whats the closest thing to a rattler or a cobra that someone can find on the pet market which holds little to no venom(little meaning like a tarantula or scorpion sting) ?

You could look into hognose snakes, they are venomous, but from my understanding their fangs are in the back of their mouth and couldn't actually give you a dose unless you let them sit there and chew on you. My friend had one when we were younger and I remember her being shy, but friendly and very good looking! IF she struck, which was rare, she never even opened her mouth.

Good luck,

[Arachnaeoccult]

but it if does you die!!!

Has that ever happened?

[SSSSnakes]

but it if does you die!!!

Has that ever happened?

Local swelling and some pain, like a bee sting or a little worst.

[dross9615]

With hognoses from what I read al you get from a bite is a little itchy and irritated

[Minkness]

Western hognoses are a good choice as they are mildly venomous but are a rear fanged snake, so as mentioned above, don't just shoot you up with nurotoxins. IF you actually get bitten there will be pain and some serious swelling, but that is unlikely, and usually only if you have an alergy toit liie how some people are alergic to bees.

Mine are not shy, and usually are easilyseen in their tanks and have a medium activity level. A male can be kept in a 10 gallon tank. But a 20 long would be best for females.

No one has ever died from a hognose bite.

But, they aren't exactly cheap by your standards.

Not exactly why you are looking for more so soon after just getting your 1st 2. =/

[reptiledude987]

I would say either a hoggie or false water cobra.

[sirtalis]

I think a False Water Cobra can put a person in the hospital :p

[Tiny Boidae]

It's a little more severe than a hoggie bite, but it's usually not a big deal. The majority are also fairly tempered, and so long as you don't let them chew on you the chances of being envenomated are minimal. The problem is the snake itself is expensive, and they need large enclosures. They're too advanced for someone who's only had a corn snake and ball python, and on the off chance that it's foul tempered, it's not a pleasant snake for someone who wants something handable. I want one some day, but I'm trying to pace myself and work up to it :)

Edit: The hood is also not as impressive as a cobra's. It's not as flat and they keep their bodies low to the ground for it. If you want an animal that mimics something venomous, pueblan milk snakes are excellent examples and no venom included :D

[prairiepanda]

Hognoses have some characteristics of both rattlesnakes and cobras, and can put on some pretty awesome threat displays while still being easy to handle and overall good beginner snakes.

I don't think I would recommend a false water cobra, though...cool snakes, but the bite is more potent than what Arachneoccult is looking for, and with that size and speed they're best left to more experienced keepers.

[REM955]

Have you looked at Bull Snakes? They mimic rattlesnakes a bit when defensive. Closest I can think of.

[Nightflight99]

I'm not sure that I could recommend any suitable mimics of cobras or rattlesnakes, but I do have a few comments on Heterodon and Hydrodynastes. Mild reactions to bites from hognose snakes have certainly been reported, but they are not exactly common. Even if you do somehow manage to get a hognose snake to bite you, localized swelling and redness are on the extreme end of the spectrum, so they're certainly not generally considered to be medically significant. And while hognoses are very cute and cool snakes, they are not a very good mimic of a cobra or rattlesnake at all.

False water cobras can spread a decent hood, but they do not tend to raise up the anterior body portion much at all. I used to breed them for years, and they make awesome captives in a large display enclosure with a sizable water container. They also have a tremendous feeding response, and their size alone will make you want to avoid getting your digits chewed on by a large adult. If you're looking for a species that has a slow metabolism and a relatively low feeding bill associated with them, then Hydrodynastes is the wrong one.

[Jocarp]

I was suggesting a hognose since they have somewhat similar scales to what I think of with rattlesnakes growing up in rural Kansas. The other reason they came to mind was the mention minimal venom. Plus my friend's was a great little girl and you can get them for $75 or so (or a lot more for sure). They also don't get terribly big so I was thinking it would be a similar sized enclosure to the animal as the OP's signature (I assume, I know nothing about invertebrates).

To be honest I kind of want one so I may have been hoping to see someone else enjoy one haha :p

[Doug 351]

Get a Texas rat snake....non venomous...but mean by nature...not sure exactly what you want anyway...and don't think you do...

Seems like you want to play with fire....without getting burned....well....it's either HOT. or...not!

[SSSSnakes]

Seems like you want to play with fire....without getting burned....well....it's either HOT. or...not!

Very well said.

[Nightflight99]

To be honest I kind of want one so I may have been hoping to see someone else enjoy one haha :p
This is my favorite quote in this thread so far! Love it! :)

[RAD House]

I am confused about what you are looking for here. A rattlesnake and a cobra are two very different snakes. Do you want a animal that looks like one or the other? Are you looking for a animal that is a venomous training wheels of sorts? I think you need to clarify what you are looking for before the forum can help you.

[Arachnaeoccult]

A venomous training wheel that won't kill me. I can keep black widows in an enclosure without paranoia even if some got out. my aunty had a black widow in her house for years in the living room.

[prairiepanda]

Ah, well if it's a venomous training wheel you want then I'd first start out with something fast, bold, and bitey, but entirely nonvenomous. A hognose has the looks and show, but if you want to actually prepare for a future dealing with hots then I'd go with something somewhat large, intimidating, and prone to biting so that you can learn how to avoid getting bit. Once you've mastered that, I'd suggest finding an experienced hot keeper near you who would take you on as an apprentice before getting any actual hots.

[SSSSnakes]

Ah, well if it's a venomous training wheel you want then I'd first start out with something fast, bold, and bitey, but entirely nonvenomous. A hognose has the looks and show, but if you want to actually prepare for a future dealing with hots then I'd go with something somewhat large, intimidating, and prone to biting so that you can learn how to avoid getting bit. Once you've mastered that, I'd suggest finding an experienced hot keeper near you who would take you on as an apprentice before getting any actual hots.

I use coach whips for training future venomous handlers.

[eminart]

I am confused about what you are looking for here. A rattlesnake and a cobra are two very different snakes. Do you want a animal that looks like one or the other? Are you looking for a animal that is a venomous training wheels of sorts? I think you need to clarify what you are looking for before the forum can help you.

My thoughts as well. Which one are you interested in because they're nothing alike behavior-wise. To find a snake "like" either of them you're going to have to know what it is you're looking for.

[dannybgoode]

From all that I've read on the differences between hots and non - hots is that hots can actually kill you and therefore the only way to get any value out of training on non - hots it to treat each one as if they were.

That is, to open their cages, cleaning, water changes, feeding etc as if they might kill you, whether it be a corn snake, boa, retic - whatever. Only when you do not make a single mistake, never get tagged, never break protocol should you consider moving to trying to get an experienced hot keeper to train you for real.

I think the most important thing you should consider is for what reason do you want to keep hots. Is it because you think it's a kind of neat thing to do, all that danger in the room with you is an exciting thought or is it because you have a genuine interest in certain venomous snakes? If the former you should perhaps reconsider. You don't get a second chance with a venomous.

The other aspect to consider is financial. You have previously described your financial situation and it doesn't sound the best foundation on which to build and keep a highly dangerous snake collection. I'm not judging you and don't care what you spend your money on (the UK has a far more generous state benefit system and the arguments about what people should spend their benefits on has rated for years), just trying to be realistic.

[SerpentineDream]

Venomous snakes require a significant financial outlay. You have to have the proper equipment, secure caging, a dedicated secure hot room, etc. If your hot gets sick and you can even find a vet who will treat it, expect to pay through the nose. And if you get bitten and survive to pay the hospital bill, you will find out the meaning of the word "expensive."

That said, Western hognoses are great if you want a snake that looks scary. Some of the normal (and less pricey) morphs look a lot like juvenile rattlesnakes to the untrained eye and they are frequently given the shovel treatment by frightened people when they are mistaken for them. They put on a spectacular threat display that will scare the average person who doesn't stop to think that a snake who rattles his tail like a rattlesnake and flattens his neck to mimic a cobra all at the same time is neither. :) They know how to give a show, despite their small size. I wouldn't completely write off their venom either. If they do get a good hold on you (usually a feeding response - they don't typically bite out of aggression) the reaction can be very unpleasant, especially if you've been bitten before and become sensitized to it. As mentioned, no one has died from a hoggie bite yet, but if you turn out to be allergic to it and have an anaphylactic response, it sure would suck to be the first.

If you want a snake that will give you a real taste of handling hots, get one that's fast, unpredictable, bad-tempered and prone to biting, and will make you sorry enough if it bites you that you'll remember the experience and correct your handling technique. It doesn't have to be venomous, just something with a nasty bite. You'll either learn and grow from it or decide that maybe hots aren't so hot for you. Depending on the individual (every species has exceptions to the rule for personality) false water cobras or boigas might be good training species. Dwarf reticulated pythons, which are still quite big when grown, have no venom but can sometimes be aggressive and have big teeth that will make you bleed and possibly require stitches. Large retics can do major damage. Coachwhips are lightning fast and their bites are no fun.

Spoken as someone who is fascinated with hots but decided after much deliberation that hoggies are about as hot as I realistically want to get. ;) in the end, I want something that I can handle and enjoy.

[D Grade]

Get a Texas rat snake....non venomous...but mean by nature...not sure exactly what you want anyway...and don't think you do...

Seems like you want to play with fire....without getting burned....well....it's either HOT. or...not!

Well said!

I don't think a hoggie is a good choice for what you want besides to say you have a snake that has potential venom to cause a reaction.

I think a false water cobra is a better per say "hot" as mentioned. Or what about a Boiga species. A B. Dendrophila is a rear fanged Colubrid that I want myself, but the care is actually more advanced than a Crotalus species in my opinion. I also have not seen many B. Dendrophila have successful keeps in the US simply because of lack of care and abuse while being caught and shipped. You'd be better off finding a CBB in the states (good luck).

I keep a Pituophis as well and they are actually pretty well mannered unless you scare her or mess with her the wrong way. I think as mentioned, you should probably keep a non-Hot that is more advanced to get used to handling a snake that won't just let you pick it up. Jerry recommended a Coach whip which is good, because they can be down right mean and defensive. Even a Pit or King snake that has a very strong feeding response (like mine) are a good training tool.

[sirtalis]

Their behavior is entirely different, Ive had the opportunity to work with a friends rattlers, and to catch a few in the wild. Ive seen him work with cobras and I feel no where near ready to even open their cages :p

[sirtalis]

Well said!

I don't think a hoggie is a good choice for what you want besides to say you have a snake that has potential venom to cause a reaction.

I think a false water cobra is a better per say "hot" as mentioned. Or what about a Boiga species. A B. Dendrophila is a rear fanged Colubrid that I want myself, but the care is actually more advanced than a Crotalus species in my opinion. I also have not seen many B. Dendrophila have successful keeps in the US simply because of lack of care and abuse while being caught and shipped. You'd be better off finding a CBB in the states (good luck).

I keep a Pituophis as well and they are actually pretty well mannered unless you scare her or mess with her the wrong way. I think as mentioned, you should probably keep a non-Hot that is more advanced to get used to handling a snake that won't just let you pick it up. Jerry recommended a Coach whip which is good, because they can be down right mean and defensive. Even a Pit or King snake that has a very strong feeding response (like mine) are a good training tool.

Yeah, a few people have actually been hospitalized from fwc's. King snakes are a great trainer, a friend of mine is going to help start me soon w/training and were gonna use a king

[Aaron_S]

I use coach whips for training future venomous handlers.

WC Texas pink coach whip was going to be my suggestion.

[Arachnaeoccult]

Just get a mean bitey snake that tends to draw blood on its bad days. I'm in favor of the false water cobras as a start.

[sirtalis]

Just make sure to have at least a 6 foot long enclosure, probably bigger, its really not fair for such an active snake to be in a smaller habitat

[AlexCrazy]

Here in Paraguay we have a False water Cobra... but has a bad temper.. such that it wips anything with its tail if it feels threaten.. (at least the wild ones here) but it looks awesome when it opens his hood..
note.. he is also rear fanged like the hog nose..

[macandchz]

dear arachnaeoccult, i'm worried about you, honey! if you're not wondering what happens when you get swallowed by a man-eating snake, then you're wondering about venomous ones. you don't have an ex-boyfriend somewhere you're plotting against? Ha Ha! you sure keep the forum interesting. Just kidding!

[Minkness]

arachnaeoccult is a dude ;)

[D Grade]

Forgot to mention Tiger Rats and Oriental Rats are very good as well. They exhibit some phenomenal intellegence compared to your average Colubrid.

[macandchz]

dear minkness-he could still have an ex-boyfriend somewhere! Ha Ha! just kidding you, arachnaeoccult.

[Minkness]

Sometimes ex-girlfriends need that consideration too! XD