Any idea on what the strike speed is for a Burmese Python?

[SavannahPolson]

Yesterday I was handling one of my friend's Burmse pythons. She's 6-7 feet long. She's usually a very friendly and tolerant snake, she had need fed 2 days before, & had just washed my hands. The only thing on them was possibly blueberry & cherry smell from my smoothie. Anyways I was holding her when all of a sudden she just up and struck at my hand. She connected, but didn't constrict. I didn't jerk away & gently removed her teeth from my hand. I'm cleaning it well, hydrogen peroxide and neosporin. It's super sore now and not bruised a ton, it just hurts a lot more than I thought tiny pin pricks would. How strong is their bite force and how fast is their strike? Someone compared it to a boxer's jab or right hook. Is that true?

[Albert Clark]

Wow! Are you sure you're ok? I don't have the numbers on either one but getting bit by one of the "giant" constrictors is absolutely no joke. You may want to consider having a doctor look at the bite. That's bc although you are cleaning it now and there is not a lot of bruising it may still wind up harboring a secondary infection down the road. It may require antibiotic therapy to heal appropriately. A doctor should know exactly what happened also bc he may want to treat you prophylactically based on the mechanism of injury.

[Aaron_S]

Super fast and really strong. If you aren't bruised then you're pretty lucky. Many times they leave nasty bruises.

[Pogie]

Sorry to hear about your bite. Those big snakes scare me, there I said it lol. Hope your ok.

[SavannahPolson]

My pinky, where the top front of the mouth connect is a little green, but that's all. The worst bite I've ever had is from a Moluccan cockatoo. Those bites are nasty. I thought my have was broken on that one. I have antibiotics from that bite, 3-4 months ago, I can start. The dr had said that was what he prescribed for animal bites. I've been bitten before, my adult corn over shot the mouse once, a couple kings, and a few milks as well. This is my first constrictor bite.

[dannybgoode]

Hope your hands heals quickly, I would fancy a nibble from a burmese!

Goes to show though you cannot even get complacent with snakes, especially the big ones and to think this one is only half grown! Well done for staying calm though, probably helped both you and the snake.

Also shows why you should always have a second person on hand when handling big snakes as you may have owned then for years but they can still be unpredictable and having someone there just in case is a must.

[Nightflight99]

Made a mistake, got kissed by a snake. At least that is how I tend to interpret any bites. Sometimes there are other stimuli at work that we may not notice at the time, and this can render even a generally calm and evenly-dispositioned animal a bit feisty. With most smaller constrictors, it is really more startling than painful. Usually you can clean the wound yourself, then apply an antibiotic and call it good. Somewhere in the 6-7 ft range, the bites can be hard enough that you might remember them, and bites by anything beyond 8-ft are definitely to be avoided at all costs.

One of my more memorable bites was by an adult green tree python that gave me a feeding bite to the hand, including full constriction. When I tried to gently get him off, he literally sunk his teeth into my skin all the way to his gums. It took a bit of persuasion to get him to release me. I also invented a few new words in the process. Good times. :rolleyes:

Regarding the original question--there have been a few studies about the physiology of snake strikes, but I'm not aware of any study that has actually comparatively quantified the speed itself across different taxa.

[dannybgoode]

... and bites by anything beyond 8-ft are definitely to be avoided at all costs.

An experienced keeper round these parts got bitten on the foot by a full grown retic. Severed all the tendons and he was in hospital for a few weeks.

They saved his foot but he'll never walk properly again.

It's why I don't think I'll ever own a giant. The idea appeals to me but the practicalities of caring for one just don't stack up. It's just too much snake for me to handle sadly.

[SavannahPolson]

I specifically chose a rainbow so she wouldn't get too big. There's a snake at work 10-12 foot burm who is so bad none of us even get him out without at least 2 other people around. There's also a 13-15 foot one who is pretty calm, but still, none of us handle him alone. The rest of them, 3 6-8 foot ones, are usually good, but we still have the knives & alcohol. Of course, no one likes to get the aggressive one out because he's extremely aggressive and cage possessive. The guys at work tell me not to even mess with him. As for getting a snake to let go and stop constricting if I were the only one in that room, my boss keeps a syringe of rubbing alcohol we can squirt into the snakes mouth to get it to let go as well as me carrying a large knife, just in case. I'm not sure exactly what was up with the snake, but I know that the girl and I were both shocked. She wasn't in shed either, that's what I wondered about at first. Some of guys she knows we're down stairs and they freaked out more than I did lol.

[Nightflight99]

As for getting a snake to let go and stop constricting if I were the only one in that room, my boss keeps a syringe of rubbing alcohol we can squirt into the snakes mouth to get it to let go as well as me carrying a large knife, just in case.
Yep, a small spray bottle with alcohol is perfect for that, and should be in every herp room that houses medium or large snakes.

[MDT]

A doctor should know exactly what happened also bc he may want to treat you prophylactically based on the mechanism of injury.

Savannah..I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I am an ER doc, so take this info however you'd like. You will be bruised and pretty sore. Albert is correct about potential infection, however...prophylactic antibiotics are not indicated or recommended. There is no evidence that they are of any benefit. Just keep an eye on the wound. Keep it clean, watch for spreading redness (cellulitis)/red streaking (lymphangitis). Obviously, if you have a purulent discharge from a puncture site, get in to see your doc, you could have a retained foreign body (tooth) with infection. Otherwise, no worries. You just got beat up a bit.

[SavannahPolson]

Savannah..I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I am an ER doc, so take this info however you'd like. You will be bruised and pretty sore. Albert is correct about potential infection, however...prophylactic antibiotics are not indicated or recommended. There is no evidence that they are of any benefit. Just keep an eye on the wound. Keep it clean, watch for spreading redness (cellulitis)/red streaking (lymphangitis). Obviously, if you have a purulent discharge from a puncture site, get in to see your doc, you could have a retained foreign body (tooth) with infection. Otherwise, no worries. You just got beat up a bit.



Thank you, the bite marks themselves are scabbed over and it doesn't seem to be swollen. Some of the marks appear to be unevenly spaces, which I find strange, does the snake need braces lol? It appears to be healing fairly well, which I'm thankful for. I appreciate everyone's advice and replies.

[Bandit]

Glad to hear you're okay. I took my first bite by a large snake this past summer when a buddy had a 10 foot reticulated python out and she started causing trouble. He was completely restrained by her so I went to grab her head and she turned and got a hold of my hand. She didn't even get a complete bite, but it took a good 10 minutes to get her off. The pressure she was putting on me was incredible, and I thought she was going to break my hand(she did in fact chip the bone on my finger). My hand looked like I had punched a brick wall for the next few days and sure as hell felt like it too. I now have visible scars where some of her teeth were. Definitely nothing to mess with and I wouldn't want to imagine if she had just straight up struck and bit me.

[Albert Clark]

Savannah..I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I am an ER doc, so take this info however you'd like. You will be bruised and pretty sore. Albert is correct about potential infection, however...prophylactic antibiotics are not indicated or recommended. There is no evidence that they are of any benefit. Just keep an eye on the wound. Keep it clean, watch for spreading redness (cellulitis)/red streaking (lymphangitis). Obviously, if you have a purulent discharge from a puncture site, get in to see your doc, you could have a retained foreign body (tooth) with infection. Otherwise, no worries. You just got beat up a bit.
I am a NYC and NYS Paramedic for thirty years and a Paramedic instructor. I never said anything about "prophylactic antibiotics". I said a doctor may want to treat you" prophylactically" period. I work with nurses and doctors and fellow paramedics and know that treatment modalities can differ. Prophylactically doesn't mean necessarily with a antibiotic regimen.

[MDT]

So, what did you mean by "treat prophylactically"?

[Nightflight99]

Back on topic. There was a 1992 paper by Janoo and Gasc (http://booksandjournals.brillonline.com/content/journals/10.1163/156853892x00021) that analyzed the predatory strike of Vipera ammodytes using high speed cinematography. Obviously vipers are a completely different lineage than pythons, but it does provide some interesting data regarding what some snake lineages are capable of. Based on their results, V. ammodytes was capable of performing a complete strike in 0.33 seconds, and took only 0.0375 seconds to impact the prey item. This corresponds to 1.47 m/s or 5.29 km/h (3.29 mph). The authors also filmed missed strikes by a rhino viper (Bitis nasicornis) and a gaboon viper (B. gabonica), which were produced in 0.2 seconds and 0.42 seconds, respectively. The strike speed up until impact was 0.39 and 1.55 m/s, respectively, compared to 1.32 m/s in V. ammodytes.

Janoo and Gasc (1992) also mention data by Van Riper (1953, 1955) on rattlesnakes, which produced defensive strikes at 2.47 m/s, which corresponds to 8.89 km/h (5.52 mph).

The poor sampling and lack of repetitions don't really allow for general statements based on that study, but it does provide some interesting minimum values.

[MDT]

When I start to geek out a bit, this is what gets me: When talking about the giants..how do they move that much mass that quickly? The action potential generated by their muscles shouldn't be any faster or slower than any other snake (fatter/bigger vs slender/smaller snake..actin and myosin are pretty much the same). So, I get the strike speed in vipers (relatively smaller), but a big burm? That is a lot of snake to get moving really fast. Once that mass is moving, the kinetic energy would be enormous. Pretty amazing, really...by the data you supplied Nightflight, I'm guessing you could reasonably assume a strike speed in the neighborhood of 3-9 mph. Taking that kind of mass from a resting state to that kind of accelerated state in that time frame just blows me away.

[IW17]

Yep, a small spray bottle with alcohol is perfect for that, and should be in every herp room that houses medium or large snakes.

This usually works. My water python however doesn't seem to know this rule lol. The only way she'll let go is to put her head under running water and slowly increase the temperature until she releases.

[dannybgoode]

When I start to geek out a bit, this is what gets me: When talking about the giants..how do they move that much mass that quickly? The action potential generated by their muscles shouldn't be any faster or slower than any other snake (fatter/bigger vs slender/smaller snake..actin and myosin are pretty much the same). So, I get the strike speed in vipers (relatively smaller), but a big burm? That is a lot of snake to get moving really fast. Once that mass is moving, the kinetic energy would be enormous. Pretty amazing, really...by the data you supplied Nightflight, I'm guessing you could reasonably assume a strike speed in the neighborhood of 3-9 mph. Taking that kind of mass from a resting state to that kind of accelerated state in that time frame just blows me away.

And not only the strike speed but the fact that they seem to be able to coil and constrict in the same blink of an eye. A amount of muscle movement to coordinate very very quickly.

Fascinating to watch-from a reasonably safe distance of course!

[Albert Clark]

So, what did you mean by "treat prophylactically"?

Treat prophylactically can be a gamut of different approaches to any specific wound, illness and or disability including but not limited to aggressive cleansing , irrigation and debridement, administration of medications ie tetanus and or antibiotics. In wounds that are suspicious for possibly causing deep tissue damage and having the potential for infectious processes. In this case a snake bite from a "giant constictor"that not only can cause extensive soft tissue damage and even neuromuscular damage treating prophylactically can certainly come into use. The saliva of a snake has many enzymes, bacteria and cellular bodies that can be injurious to human tissue in the event of a bite wound. "Treating prophylactically" can include the administration of medications such as tetanus and antibiotics.

[dave himself]

Glad to hear that your OK and all ended well. I've been bitten and wrapped by our albino male Wilson which was totally my fault and not an experience I would wish to go through again.

[Albert Clark]

Wow Dave! Sorry to hear that. Hoping you heal up quickly. Best of luck.

[dave himself]

Wow Dave! Sorry to hear that. Hoping you heal up quickly. Best of luck.

It was a while ago now, he hit me like an express train and ended up with most of my hand in his mouth. Thankfully there was no real damage done, my hand was cut and the bruising lasted for over a week or so. But it could have been a lot worse as I was alone at the time with no one else at home. Let me just add I wasn't breaking the golden rule of our house of never handling alone, I'd just opened the door of his viv to get his water bowl :(

[MDT]

Treat prophylactically can be a gamut of different approaches to any specific wound, illness and or disability including but not limited to aggressive cleansing , irrigation and debridement, administration of medications ie tetanus and or antibiotics. In wounds that are suspicious for possibly causing deep tissue damage and having the potential for infectious processes. In this case a snake bite from a "giant constictor"that not only can cause extensive soft tissue damage and even neuromuscular damage treating prophylactically can certainly come into use. The saliva of a snake has many enzymes, bacteria and cellular bodies that can be injurious to human tissue in the event of a bite wound. "Treating prophylactically" can include the administration of medications such as tetanus and antibiotics.

Dude..no, it does not include giving antibiotics. There is no such thing as "just in case"...you either have a pathogenic bacteria causing infection that you treat with appropriate antibiotics, or you employ watchful waiting/surveillance which is what I described to Savannah. Any numb-nutz can give a Z-pack for "just in case". All that does is increase antibiotics resistance and possible give you a case of C. diff. Knowing when to treat appropriately is another story. As far as irrigation goes, what do you irrigate with Albert? I'm sure you're familiar with the studies that show tap water is equally efficacious as saline/sterile water and no higher incidence of infection rates, right? She could do that at home. If her tetanus was >10 yrs, she prob needs an update, if this was a wild caught snake, and tetanus was out of date >5 yrs, time for new one. What the heck does this even mean: "cellular bodies that can be injurious to human tissue in the event of a bite wound" C'mon man...if she didn't need sutures, she's moving all digits with appropriate feeling, and not showing signs of active infection, she can save her money and watch this thing at home.

[Albert Clark]

MDT, you asked me what I meant by "treat prophylactically" and I spelled it out for you. You are welcome to disagree with me but my information is posted. I don't agree with your position either. The name calling is not necessary. We have different standards of care and different indexes of suspicion as it relates to snake bites and that's fine. Moving right along., I am not here to try and win or lose a debate. It is what it is. Take care.

[SavannahPolson]

Alright guys, I'm all healed up. It has scarred, but that just makes for interesting stories right? No surprise that I scarred. That's what I get for being pale lol.