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View Full Version : How to properly place a thermostat probe in a snake viv


dannybgoode
01-13-16, 03:47 AM
I have read many threads on this and other forums about where to position the probe for a thermostat and in my opinion the answers given are generally unsatisfactory.

With this in mind I thought I would write a short piece on what I think is the best way to set up a thermostat in a viv that is heated by a CHE or RHP (Ceramic Heat Emitter or Radiant Heat Panel).

I believe this set up has a number of distinct advantages which I will detail also.

It is worth noting at this stage I do not think the UHT's or other heat mats / tape are suitable for snakes - particularly larger ones - for a number of reasons. Heat mats generally only heat what is in contact with them. For an adult snake this means that only the lower outer portion of muscle tends to get heated and not the snake's entire body. This can lead to issues including regurgitation.

Further, heat mats can suffer terribly from thermal blocking. This is where a heavy object (the snake for example) traps the heat in a very localised way causing the mat where the heavy object is to get much hotter than the rest of the mat regardless of whether a thermostat is used.

As an experiment try placing a book on a heat mat and leave it for an hour or so. Then remove the book and see how much hotter the mat is where the book was - you may want to use a temperature gun instead of your hand! Now imagine this was your snake!

Further, heat mats do not raise the ambient temperature of the air much above where they are placed so the upper portion of the viv can be significantly cooler than desirable.

For this reason I think only RHP's or CHE's (CHE's in particularly mimic the way the sun heats pretty well) should be used and set up as per the below:

Fix your CHP or RHP to the roof of your viv approximately 1/4 down its length and its centre across its width. Ensure you have a metal guard around it - I use an oversized one for my CHE as they can kick out some heat so better safe than sorry.

Do not put the thermostat probe at substrate level. If your snake covers it then the thermostat will see a drop in temperature and will increase power to the RHP / CHE. CHE's in particular kick out some serious heat and if your snake does this when you're not around to move it it could cause harm. I've measured my 150W CHE at 80% power to have a surface temperature 350c + (662f!! ).

If your snake covers the probe and your CHE / RHP thinks it needs to play catch up could significantly overheat your snake.

Instead, fix the probe to the back of the viv about 1/3 down the length and about 6-8" from the substrate. Keep the area either side and in front free of decor etc. This way the probe is in little danger of being covered.

Then use a thermometer with a probe at the hot spot or a temperature gun to set the stat level. It takes a bit of faffing around, my stat is set at c. 26c for hot spot temp of 32c for example and I monitor the hot spot with a thermometer price at the hot spot permanently and each day with a temperature gun also but the faffing is worth it as it is much safer.

Doing it this way also ensures the cool side never exceeds the temperature as per where the probe is so I am confident of a good thermal gradient. I know that the warm side is at least 26c, the hot spot 32c and the cool side not more than 26c 1/3 the way down the viv and cooler beyond that.

For completeness I have another probe at the cool end measuring temperature and humidity so I know my cool side during the day is 23c dropping to just below 21c at night (my stat allows 4 timed settings so I can go from cool in the middle of the night, warm in the morning, hot during the peak hours and then to warm and then cold - mimics nature a bit better. note cold is relative!)

So to summarise why I believe this is the best set up for a snake:

1/ You know what the hot spot temperature is and there is no danger of the snake covering the thermostat probe.
2/ You know that the warm end of the viv is at least as warm as the thermostat setting
3/ You know that the cool end is a least as cool as the thermostat setting and will be getting cooler still toward the end away from the CHE / RHP
4/ 2 & 3 together means you can be confident of a good thermal gradient
5/ You are not presented by any of the inherent issues that heat mats can cause.
6/ The thermometer probes at both ends and the hygrometer allow for easy, at a glance monitoring for peace of mind. I also do spot checks around the viv daily with a temperature gun

As with all things there is more than one way to skin a cat but I do not think you can go far wrong with this set up.

Finally they say a picture paints a thousand words so here is my viv set up all labelled to tie in with the above. There is a snake in there honest!..

http://www.dannybower.co.uk/photos/vivsetupsmall.jpg

HoldingWine
01-23-16, 06:44 PM
Thank you for the great write-up! I was actually thinking of this problem when I was designing my pythons' new enclosures.

I really like that style of CHE/light cover you have. Unfortunately I can't seem to find them in the US. I've only seen them in European or Australian keeper's setups.

bigsnakegirl785
01-24-16, 09:48 PM
I've got a few T12's and they've got basking shelves so I was thinking of putting the thermostat probes on the bottom of the basking shelf. Even if the floor is cold, I can put a UTH there for the winter and/or they could just sit on the basking shelf for warmth.

HoldingWine, I had to make my own cages. Took me hours for just 2 of them and was a serious pain, but that's about all we can do here in the US we don't get fancy bulb cages.

sirtalis
01-25-16, 09:27 AM
Very good write up :)
@holdingwine, I wish I could find light covers like this in the US :P at some petsmarts they have a few but the holes are too big and I feel a small animal could find a way in!

HoldingWine
01-25-16, 10:19 AM
I hear ya. I made one once and it took me forever to bend each little square to close everything up. Although it did look nice when I painted it with high-temp black paint.

I found them on UK eBay but with shipping it ends up being about $30 per cage. :eek:

Albert Clark
01-25-16, 03:37 PM
I hear ya. I made one once and it took me forever to bend each little square to close everything up. Although it did look nice when I painted it with high-temp black paint.

I found them on UK eBay but with shipping it ends up being about $30 per cage. :eek:

Great explanation for heating a enclosure with a Che and rhp. What brand of thermostat is that to allow you those variable timed temperature settings?

dannybgoode
01-26-16, 01:13 AM
Shame you guys over the Pond don't get heat guards. So cheap to mad manufacture and very very useful. Maybe there's a market for someone to make one.

There are three manufactures of thermostats that allow temperature variation. Habistat allow a day time temp and a night time temp but then allow those two temps to fluctuate by a set amount to mimic say cloud cover, moving from shade to non - shade etc. So your day time temp could be 30c +/- 2c.

The one I am using allows 4 temps so I start at 7 am with a hot spot of 30c the increase to 33-34c at 1pm, then drop to 30c again at 7pm then to 27c at 1am. These of course are hotspot temps so ambient temps are somewhat less.

The final one which is new on the market and I'm keen to try is from istat and that allows an hourly temp curve to allow a really nice thermal change throughout the day.

Don't know what you have in the US that is similar.

bigsnakegirl785
01-26-16, 12:41 PM
Shame you guys over the Pond don't get heat guards. So cheap to mad manufacture and very very useful. Maybe there's a market for someone to make one.

There are three manufactures of thermostats that allow temperature variation. Habistat allow a day time temp and a night time temp but then allow those two temps to fluctuate by a set amount to mimic say cloud cover, moving from shade to non - shade etc. So your day time temp could be 30c +/- 2c.

The one I am using allows 4 temps so I start at 7 am with a hot spot of 30c the increase to 33-34c at 1pm, then drop to 30c again at 7pm then to 27c at 1am. These of course are hotspot temps so ambient temps are somewhat less.

The final one which is new on the market and I'm keen to try is from istat and that allows an hourly temp curve to allow a really nice thermal change throughout the day.

Don't know what you have in the US that is similar.

I think some models of Herpstat do, and maybe some of the newer Vivarium Electronics models as well.