Welllllllllllllll it's not an MBK.............

[trailblazer295]

So as many of you have read I've had a few threads about MBKs over the past few months. Growth rates, cage size etc. I was still tossing the idea around and waiting for the next expo to come around. Last night I decided to check the local classifieds and see what kind of kingsnakes were for sale and if any were MBKs. None were but I saw a great deal on a California Kingsnake and cage. A few texts later and it was done.

Met this morning. Had to go to reptile store for a few supplies. Seller was using a lamp for heat and had gone years prior with no heat source. I kept quiet about that being wrong as she was selling the snake anyway. I wanted to use a UTH instead so got a new water dish, UTH and some bedding.

The cage as you can see was really dirty and needed a clean but other then that it's in great shape. It's supposed to be only a few months old. It's a 36x18x18 front opening. As you can see the king also didn't have any hides and had to burrow to feel secure. She now has 1 hot 1 cold 1 skull "hide" and a humid hide in the back right. There was no maiden release pics as I had her in a 10g while I was cleaning her new home up. She ended up curling around inside the empty humid hide so I didn't want to disturb her yet again so moved the whole thing into the new home. I'll add moss once she moves on her own time.

She is a very relaxed snake, despite being driven around, tank jostling, picked up and probed her response was curling around my arm and resting her head. She is in fact a she, seller didn't know. I was told she is 10yrs old. She is a bit smelly lol but that's due to her cage condition. She has fresh bedding, cleaned everything and a big stable water dish.

The pics in the add she looked black and white but clearly is brown and white. I don't know if she will change colour with proper husbandry and feeding. She was fed bi weekly rat pups.

What is the correct feeding frequency for an adult king?

Regardless she seems to be fairly cage active, was exploring the 10g within an hr of being put in it and she is very easy to handle so I'm really happy with her. She is a tough SOB to survive years of no heat, dirty cage and no hides but is so calm to handle and just pick up. When I got home she had buried herself completely and had to dig around to find her and even then after a jostling drive home she didn't bite or strike or any defensive behaviour just tried to wiggle free but calmed down in my hands in seconds.

A pic of the tank before and after and few snapped while I was cleaning her cage. I'll snap some more in her new home once she settles and starts moving around. Her hot side is set to 85f and is centered front to back about 2-3" in from the left side.

[Minkness]

She's beautiful! I love getting great deals like that!

[EL Ziggy]

Great score blaze! That's a beautiful striped Cal King. I have a 3 y/o banded male. Your enclosure looks perfect too. I keep my warm side at 86-88F. I also like to cover 3 sides of my tanks to give the snake a greater sense of security but if she's made it this far in an open tank then it may not be an issue. I do think she might be a bit underfed on her current schedule. My kings are 2.5 and 3 y/o so I consider them adults. They eat every 7-10 days if they're not on a food break. They prefer mice and chicks but will occasionally eat rat weaners and small rats. A typical meal for them is a 2 jumbo mice or a jumbo mouse and a chick. That's usually a 60g meal for them. My Cal King is about 500g and my female MBK is about 750g. Best wishes with the new girl. Keep the pics coming!

[trailblazer295]

Thanks, I didn't think of the exposure before but wanted to get home. Being winter with a reptile in my car I bought the essentials and went home. I'll see how her behavior is once she settles in. I can wrap the tank later. I'll bump the temps when I get back home.

I thought the schedule seemed a bit long for a king. I'll try weighing her in a few days and offer food next week when I feed Banzai again. I think I'll try weekly rat pups and see how it goes. Don't know how shell react to increased feeding schedule. She isn't near 750g as my BP is 1100g and a lot heavier.

[Humble308]

Nice grab! I've been eyeing a cal king myself. She's going to thrive in her new home and finally get some good digested meals in her! Congrats!

[trailblazer295]

She is my slightly belated dirty thirty gift to myself.

[EL Ziggy]

Happy belated birthday blaze!

[bigsnakegirl785]

Brown and white Cal kings are quite common, I doubt her colors will change any.

I'm not sure of the size of the prey item, but feeding whatever size is proper every 2 weeks should be plenty often. It's not really necessary to feed most adult rodent-eaters (of any species really, except garters) more often than every 2 weeks, but it's a personal choice.

[EL Ziggy]

@ BSG. I agree that most adult snakes can easily survive being fed a maintenance diet of every 14 days but what's the benefit? My kings and bulls usually poop 4-5 days after a meal. They're usually chomping at the bit by day 7. They're really active and obviously hungry so why wait another 7 days to feed them? I will sometimes push them back to 10 days but that's just because I like watching them forage for food. I don't condone power feeding but I do believe in feeding my snakes well. I want them to have the best life possible in my care. That means they get fed when they're hungry but always in moderation.

[bigsnakegirl785]

@ BSG. I agree that most adult snakes can easily survive being fed a maintenance diet of every 14 days but what's the benefit? My kings and bulls usually poop 4-5 days after a meal. They're usually chomping at the bit by day 7. They're really active and obviously hungry so why wait another 7 days to feed them? I will sometimes push them back to 10 days but that's just because I like watching them forage for food. I don't condone power feeding but I do believe in feeding my snakes well. I want them to have the best life possible in my care. That means they get fed when they're hungry but always in moderation.

Longer life, healthier body. Imo. Snakes don't stop digesting after they poop. They eat, their organs swell, they poop, and then their organs return to normal after a few days. Giving them additional time off food after this process before giving them more is beneficial, as the digestion process is rather hard on their bodies. Their organs swell specifically to speed up digestion.

Again, whether you go 7 or 14+ is personal choice, I just view giving them 14 days as opposed to 7 days is more beneficial, but it's your animals your rules all I can do is state my opinion for whoever reads it to digest it and think about it.

Also when I read stuff like this (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?221667-Cause-of-death-fatty-failed-liver)....it just solidifies my opinion that conservative is better. You can't always tell by looking at a snake that it's being fed too much. This ball python wasn't fed all that much, and yet still got fatty liver disease. It was fed weekly and offered extra meals, though.

I am of the opinion less is better. Not to the point of starving, but snakes only need a fraction of what most people feed them to thrive.

(Also every two weeks is nowhere near even approaching a maintenance diet, and a snake "acting hungry" isn't a reliable gauge to judge on whether or not they should be eating. They're opportunistic, chances are they're always hungry.)

[Minkness]

And all of that, while probably true, is different for individual snakes. Colubrids naturally have a higher metabolism, so require more regular feeding, where as a large boa or burmese can, and should go longer. That's why some snakes like indigos and cribos require ALOT more food, more often, than ither colubrids. They are in the family, but need, and thus produce more.

There is nothing really 'wrong' with maintenance feeding at any age really. That's the great thing about reptiles. Even a meal knce a monthwont starve most snakes. (But it will others).

So, feed weekly, or bi-weekly as you choose. Though I will believe that most will encourage you to feed weekly. =)

[trailblazer295]

I'm in the mind to spilt the difference I've never understood the multiple food items at one time but can't hold them for 2 days. In the wild they'd never feed back to back. And I don't understand how holding a calm snake after feeding is bad but them coiling around second prey with a full stomach is fine. Probably feed a decent prey item weekly.

[EL Ziggy]

I usually feed my adult colubrids roughly 10% of their body weight per feeding. I'll sometimes feed two smaller prey items if I have an abundance of them or if I want to offer different prey items. Since my kings prefer mice over rats they get two (30g) jumbo mice, or a 30/30g chick and mouse vs. a small (60g) rat. It's the same amount of food just smaller bites :). I can't imagine one or the other being more stressful on their digestive systems so again, it's all about choices. There's no right or wrong, just different methods that hopefully achieve the same results of keeping our animals strong and healthy for many years to come.

[EL Ziggy]

Feeding amounts and frequencies will always be a subjective issue. All we can do is research the opinions of experienced breeders and keepers, listen to and learn from our snakes, and make what we believe are the best choices for our animals. When my snakes are being finicky, or when they're off feed, I offer food less often. When they're striking at the glass and pacing relentlessly they get a meal. It's more fun than work for me so there's no rock solid schedule, just guidelines I like to follow. I also think it's good to mix things up and try new methods. That's how we find out what works best.

[Minkness]

Very well said Ziggy!

[trailblazer295]

I usually feed my adult colubrids roughly 10% of their body weight per feeding. I'll sometimes feed two smaller prey items if I have an abundance of them or if I want to offer different prey items. Since my kings prefer mice over rats they get two (30g) jumbo mice, or a 30/30g chick and mouse vs. a small (60g) rat. It's the same amount of food just smaller bites :). I can't imagine one or the other being more stressful on their digestive systems so again, it's all about choices. There's no right or wrong, just different methods that hopefully achieve the same results of keeping our animals strong and healthy for many years to come.

Oh okay I understand better now. Was thinking it was a size issue with thinner snakes vs a thicker meal.

[bigsnakegirl785]

And all of that, while probably true, is different for individual snakes. Colubrids naturally have a higher metabolism, so require more regular feeding, where as a large boa or burmese can, and should go longer. That's why some snakes like indigos and cribos require ALOT more food, more often, than ither colubrids. They are in the family, but need, and thus produce more.

There is nothing really 'wrong' with maintenance feeding at any age really. That's the great thing about reptiles. Even a meal knce a monthwont starve most snakes. (But it will others).

So, feed weekly, or bi-weekly as you choose. Though I will believe that most will encourage you to feed weekly. =)

Generally, kingsnakes and milksnakes have fairly slow metabolisms. Even corn snakes are often recommended to feed every 2 weeks as adults. The only exceptions I can think of are garter snakes, and maybe indigoes. As far as more well-known species go. I'm sure random lesser-known species like wolf snakes or file snakes or something could be exempt as well.

Other than my retic and eastern garter, none of my snakes regularly show signs of being "hungry." My ball python does, but it's usually after a feeding strike, and doesn't last long. Most of my snakes react to food like "oh, food ok" and take them with little to no drama. Only my garters, retic, and rainbow boa are fed weekly. My adult ball python and 6 month BCI are fed every 2 weeks, and my adult BCI is fed every 5 weeks. Even after I fast my BCI, he doesn't act a discernible amount more excited about food than he does when I'm feeding him regularly.

[trailblazer295]

Update, starting to see her out a bit more. First time I caught her out of a hide she seemed to be startled by movement in the room. Could see her head jerk quickly and stop moving. She was poking out of the hide earlier in the day as I was getting ready for work. Got home and she is stretched out at the front of the cage. She didn't seem to notice or move when I was in the room. I think she is slowly getting settled. I'll give her a few days before I try feeding, give her a rat pup for now until I get 2 meals into her then weigh her and adjust meals accordingly. She could probably handle a bigger meal but she is used to eating pups and until I get an accurate weight I'll feed weekly pups.

[EL Ziggy]

You're on the right track blaze. Looking forward to seeing her thrive in your care. Keep the pictures coming!

[trailblazer295]

You're on the right track blaze. Looking forward to seeing her thrive in your care. Keep the pictures coming!

Thanks, I'll take some better pics another day. Just trying to leave alone for now, just glance at the tank from a distance. She is in my room to keep her separate from my other snakes. I need to take some decent pics of my other snakes with my DSLR sometime too.

[Albert Clark]

Cool looking Cal king you have there. I always have a special place in my heart for Kings in general. The respect that they garner for keeping venomous species in check. I recently bagged a Arizona mountain king who I enjoy keeping and will probably breed her in the future. Lol.

[trailblazer295]

She spent the night stretched out in the open so think she is settling well. She looks tiny in it.

[trailblazer295]

Been stretched out in the open in one place or another all day it seems. Just got home from work and she is out still. I'll try feeding when I feed Banzai in a few days.

[bigsnakegirl785]

If she's as comfortable as she is already, she may eat for you. Good luck!

[trailblazer295]

She spent the night in the open too. Yesterday she discovered her hot hide. I'll try feeding soon. I'll report the results.

[chairman]

Don't worry if she doesn't eat, though. Tis the season for kings to go off feeding. My daughter's king is currently rather active, hanging out in the open, etc, but is not interested in food. After not eating for a month I offered a mouse this past weekend and all I got was a defensive strike. I'm not trying again for another month... but not expecting anything until March.

[trailblazer295]

Don't worry if she doesn't eat, though. Tis the season for kings to go off feeding. My daughter's king is currently rather active, hanging out in the open, etc, but is not interested in food. After not eating for a month I offered a mouse this past weekend and all I got was a defensive strike. I'm not trying again for another month... but not expecting anything until March.


Don't say that lol I will worry for sure. I want to get a meal or two into her before she goes on a hunger strike. Already have a BP that is more active and visible but also saying now. Going to offer again this week after 6weeks ish of no food.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Don't say that lol I will worry for sure. I want to get a meal or two into her before she goes on a hunger strike. Already have a BP that is more active and visible but also saying now. Going to offer again this week after 6weeks ish of no food.

As long as it's warm in there, you shouldn't have to worry. :)

Even my bad eater, my ball python is still currently eating and we're in the low 20's. Keep things warm and consistent (sometimes even the lighting needs to be the same), and snakes usually eat year round.

[chairman]

Just depends on the snake. All my snakes are kept in the same room and my pythons and cornsnake are still eating. But hopefully your king will eat for you.

[trailblazer295]

My snakes have the same cage heating. Ambient sunlight, the room is a bit cooler because I keep 74-79f in summer and 71f in winter. But the stats are set the same.

[trailblazer295]

Well SHE ATE!!!!!!!!!!! she was quick to take interest in the food but there wasn't that rapid strike you can barely see more of a quick movement and snatch and grab. She was squeezing for a long time and ate *** end first lol I've tried to leave alone to let her settle I've noticed anytime I walk close to the cage she would often flinch. I was worried about scaring her opening it up and offering food but that went smooth. She did flinch jerk her head an inch or two when I checked in to make sure she had swallowed the whole thing. I left the room after that.

I was off to an unlucky start Mushu is still on his hunger strike but hasn't lost much weight.

All in all she was quick to eat so it's not a bad night. Leave her alone to digest until I go to bed as she is in my room for awhile before being moved into my pet room. I'll update Banzai in his thread as I've got a question.

[EL Ziggy]

Congrats on the successful first feed Blaze. My kings were shy in the beginning too. She'll settle in soon :).

[trailblazer295]

Thanks, funny enough she twitches when you're around but didn't hide after eating.

[trailblazer295]

So update on her behaviour, when I got home from work yesterday she was in her hot hide looking out. I was moving around the room putting things away etc. She didn't come out but didn't flinch or hide when I walked near the cage. Then later in the evening She was out and about and stared out at me and sort of came forward tongue flicking away staring at me and my sister. Seems she is finally settling down and realizing movement doesn't equal danger. I won't try handling until she eats another meal. So far baby steps are going steady.

[Pogie]

Pretty snake, I love the stripe going down her back. Our Petsmart store has one in that same color that I was eyeing.

Glad she is settling in for ya! I think of all snakes, Kingsnakes are my favorite. And you have a pretty one there!

[trailblazer295]

Thanks, I can't wait to take some decent pics of her.

[trailblazer295]

Yay progress, while spot cleaning some poop tonight she happened to be out. She temporarily buried her head like an ostrich but after that she was at the front of the cage going back and forth staring me in the eye while my face was inches from the cage. She seemed curious, tongue going like crazy. Can't wait to begin handling her.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Congrats on the first feed! It's always a good feeling when a newcomer eats right away.

[trailblazer295]

Congrats on the first feed! It's always a good feeling when a newcomer eats right away.

True to king form she was hungry. She attacked faster then Banzai or Mushu ever have. They have eaten fast but by seconds she was faster for sure from the time food was in the cage until she was coiling it.

[EL Ziggy]

Sounds like she's settling in nicely Blaze. Congrats on the progress.

[trailblazer295]

Happy to report she ate tonight. She does strike funny though, slow motion open mouthed strike just a big AHHHHHHHHHHHHH. It's like watching Discovery Channel in slow motion. She bites and coils all in slow motion compared to Banzai and Mushu who strike and coil in a fraction of a second.

[EL Ziggy]

You're in the groove now blaze. Hopefully you'll share more pics of that pretty girl soon ;).

[trailblazer295]

You're in the groove now blaze. Hopefully you'll share more pics of that pretty girl soon ;).

A few days to digest and then the DSLR is coming out, no worries bud.