An Unfortunate Loss

[bigsnakegirl785]

Unfortunately it seems that Guin never healed from her regurgitation, or whatever went wrong didn't clear up. I found her dead when I came home from work. She was loosely coiled up on her hot side and and had bitten her tongue. One eye was like normal and the eye facing up was deflated and clouded over. She was stiff when I found her, but slightly limber, so she had to been dead 5-6 hours, she had to have died soon after I left for work.

She was acting perfectly normal when I left, showing no signs of being uncomfortable and reacted normally to my touch, I tried not to bother her too much but I needed to at least check on her since she'd recently regurged. She hasn't shown any signs of being adverse to her hot side, I've seen her switch between sides like a normal snake. Never seen her in her water dish or wrapped around it.

I can only guess it was a sudden spike in temperature, judging by how she appeared to have contorted, which may have caused her regurge in the first place. When I came home, her thermostat was reading 80F and currently sending power to her heat tape and the surface of her tub was right around 79F. Unfortunately, Hydrofarms do not record low and high temps so I was unable to tell if there had been any spikes in temperature during the day.

I had her thermostat set to 82F for a target range of 78-80F, which should have been within parameters even if the tub's floor was reaching the thermostat's set temperature.

I had her heat tape set up the exact same way everyone else's is: with the probe in the middle of the heat tape in between the bottom of the tub and the heat tape. Secured in place with aluminum tape and completely covered with the tape.

As far as the regurge incident here is a re-cap:

Her first meal was a fuzzy-sized hopper, which she passed perfectly about a week later. No regurges and normal stool, wasn't smelly or anything.

Her second meal was a normal-sized hopper, which I was hesitant about feeding but figured since she was already on hoppers just give her the smallest one of the bunch. 3 days later she had a small regurge that seemed to be the mouse's skin but no fur judging by the white color and gummy texture. 4 days after that she had a very unusual stool that appeared to be underdigested. It was dark in color, with fur mixed in but no distinguishable shapes. I assumed I had just not provided enough heat for her to digest the larger meal and bumped her thermostat up by one degree.

I still have that stool sample, but it's dried out on some paper towel. Will they still be able to use it for testing?

In hindsight, I probably should have taken her to the vet the following day after that weird stool, but I made assumptions and she paid for it. This is Day 5 after that weird stool, and 12 days since her last meal.

I plan on getting a necropsy done if possible. I will be going out to the vet on Monday to see about getting a necropsy done. She's currently in the fridge so hopefully her body is still usable.

She's been in quarantine in a separate area, and I've tried to handle her last when I do. So everyone else should be ok if it was some sort of disease that killed her, and no one is acting unusual as of right now. Everyone has passed normal urates and stool over the past several days.

RIP Guin.

[Aaron_S]

Sorry for your loss.

I don't think the regurge caused anything to do with the death itself. My non-vet trained guess is that there is/was something underlying and the regurge was most likely a symptom of it. (again I'm no vet and haven't done any necropsy).

I think your temps were fine and that there wasn't a spike in heat. When snakes pass it isn't uncommon for them to contort and twist their bodies in some sort of death throw. So I would just wait for the necropsy to see what happened.

[Minkness]

Awww....I'm so sorry for your loss. =(

[SnoopySnake]

Sorry to hear that :( I'd have to agree with Aaron though, I don't think a temp spike is a likely cause of death. I would definitely try to get the necropsy.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Thanks everyone, and it kind of eases my anxiety it doesn't seem likely it was a temp spike. I will be keeping a close eye on everybody in case I had any slip ups, or it somehow made its way to them. Hopefully I won't experience any more loses. I won't be touching anyone at all until Monday night or Tuesday after a long shower.

[bigsnakegirl785]

UPDATE:

I just went and had an extremely thorough check through her bedding looking for any clues, and I found a piece of urate with teeny worms in it. So it seems a parasite infestation may have caused it, or been a contributing factor. I am not sure if they're from her or her bedding.

The worm is teeny, completely transparent with a black head. I will be dumping this urate in with her body for testing as well.

[EL Ziggy]

I'm sorry for your loss BSG. I really hope you find the cause and that the rest of your collection remains safe.

[chairman]

Sorry about your loss.

The vet will tell you for sure but the worms could just be fly larvae. They can arrive pretty quickly afterward. Any chance there's stray tiny flies around? Here's hoping that you don't have a parasite issue to deal with.

[Wingbeats]

Oh no, that is really sad! She was such a pretty girl. I hope a necropsy is enlightening for you, and brings some closure. I'm sorry for the loss :(

[toddnbecka]

Wow, really sorry to hear you lost her. It happens though, hopefully the necropsy will tell you what was the actual cause. Will you be treating the others for parasites as a preventive measure?

[Tsubaki]

Wow that was unexpected, sorry for your loss. Have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, dont be too hard on yourself though.. :(

[treaux]

Sorry to hear. Your thread about her on the bp forums was part of what inspired me to get one. They do seem so small and delicate when they are young.

The worms do seem pretty concerning.

RIP Guin.

[Aaron_S]

Worms? Crazy! It's very difficult for captive animals to get worms. Hopefully the vet can shed some light.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Wow, really sorry to hear you lost her. It happens though, hopefully the necropsy will tell you what was the actual cause. Will you be treating the others for parasites as a preventive measure?

No, I'm not going to pump my animals full of chemicals if I don't need to. If I see any cause for concern in anybody else, I will send in their feces/urates for a test.

Worms? Crazy! It's very difficult for captive animals to get worms. Hopefully the vet can shed some light.

The closest thing I could find on Google was a gnat larvae, but I am not an entomologist and figured best to be safe than sorry and sent her urates in with her. They couldn't use the fecal I had unfortunately, so I did my best to describe to them how it looked when it was fresh.

Wow that was unexpected, sorry for your loss. Have nothing to add that hasnt already been said, dont be too hard on yourself though.. :(

Same on my end, other than the regurge and weird stool, she was acting perfectly normal. It just astounds me she died so suddenly.

Sorry to hear. Your thread about her on the bp forums was part of what inspired me to get one. They do seem so small and delicate when they are young.

The worms do seem pretty concerning.

RIP Guin.

Yes, BRBs are pretty delicate in general, which is why I only bumped her temps by one degree when I did, I didn't want to risk it getting too warm for her especially when I wouldn't be home to monitor everything.

Hopefully this won't leave too bad a mark on you! Sanji has been great, and I've never had any problems with him. I'll probably eventually get another BRB, but with a snow boa next on my list I'm not sure when that will be.


As an update on her necropsy, I called the vet and they told me to take her to the local Vet Disease Center. I told them all that I could about what happened, and they told me to call them later today to see if they got to her today. They say with all the diagnoses they have, they may not get to her in particular until tomorrow.

[Snakesitter]

I'm so sorry for your loss. :-(

Keep in mind that all not all baby snakes are meant to reach adulthood. The reason they have such large litters is to make sure at least one survives. I've had litters where one or more just did not make it, in some cases with no warning at all. My best guess is in line with Aaron's -- that there was an underlying issue that killed her, of which the regurg was just a symptom.

As for the worms, unless you noticed them in other poos/urates of hers, they probably arrived after the fact.

The lab should be able to confirm all of this.

Two final cautions:

One, make sure the lab uses an experienced *exotic* pathologist for any diagnosis. Have them save any samples used to make the diagnosis, just in case you need to send them elsewhere for a second opinion. That saved my butt once after a lab messed everything up with a misdiagnosis.

Two, just in case, treat her prior enclosure as if it is contaminated with the plague. Toss all substrate and furnishings that cannot be bleached. Wear disposable gloves. Better paranoid than sorry.

Good luck, and please keep us posted on the lab's findings.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm so sorry for your loss. :-(

Keep in mind that all not all baby snakes are meant to reach adulthood. The reason they have such large litters is to make sure at least one survives. I've had litters where one or more just did not make it, in some cases with no warning at all. My best guess is in line with Aaron's -- that there was an underlying issue that killed her, of which the regurg was just a symptom.

As for the worms, unless you noticed them in other poos/urates of hers, they probably arrived after the fact.

The lab should be able to confirm all of this.

Two final cautions:

One, make sure the lab uses an experienced *exotic* pathologist for any diagnosis. Have them save any samples used to make the diagnosis, just in case you need to send them elsewhere for a second opinion. That saved my butt once after a lab messed everything up with a misdiagnosis.

Two, just in case, treat her prior enclosure as if it is contaminated with the plague. Toss all substrate and furnishings that cannot be bleached. Wear disposable gloves. Better paranoid than sorry.

Good luck, and please keep us posted on the lab's findings.

Unfortunately I'm not sure if I can do that now, and my vet did say they don't do necropsies, they send it there. :(

I've already removed her tub from the area, and will be cleaning it. For now, it's safe and out of the way.

The initial examination did not yield any conclusive answers, so they're sending her in for further tests, and I should have the final report on Thursday. They said if I don't hear from them by Friday morning to give them a call.

[Snakesitter]

Again, so sorry, and fingers crossed for you!

[bigsnakegirl785]

So with the recent loss of Guin, I'm being very paranoid. Today I found this in Sanji's tub, a day or two after passing a big normal stool. It darkened quite a bit after I put it in the fridge, it was a lot lighter after I found it. It doesn't smell and is quite firm.

Anyone have any experience with poop/regurge like this? I'm not sure which one it is, and it's weird I found this because his feces was rather large and his digestive tract should have been clear after that. >.>

I'll see if the vet is able to do at least a fecal on this, because the Disease Center is quite a long drive away so I'd like to take it to the vet since they're closer if they can.

Sanji is the only one I've found anything like this in so far, and I've moved him to the living room where it's cooler in case he's too hot and to separate him from the others.

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2797_zps0kcvw2on.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2797_zps0kcvw2on.jpg.html)

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2795_zpsxqamr98g.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2795_zpsxqamr98g.jpg.html)

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2794_zpsrdtuio39.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/My%20Snakes/Sanji/IMG_2794_zpsrdtuio39.jpg.html)

[toddnbecka]

I've found poops similar to that (though usually dry when I find them) from my larger Domincans. It seems that sometimes they pass a clump of light colored and light weight waste that seems to be mainly rodent fur. Other times they'll pass darker, almost black clumps, sometimes with urates and sometimes separately.

[Albert Clark]

Wow, big time loss bsg! I know you are saddened and we are all with you in that. My deepest condolences and I agree with snake sitter and his thoughts. However I do believe that endoparasites certainly could have been the culprit. In any case, everyone on the forum is aware of your expertise and responsible caring of all your animals. Don't blame yourself bc some things are just out of our control as reptile keepers. Please keep us abreast of the lab work. Sorry for your loss again.

[Wingbeats]

That looks like a normal poop to me - my two BRBs occasionally make big poops like that. They seem to be a combo of fur lumps + poop stuff.

[SnoopySnake]

Looks normal to me too. Every now and then mine give me poops that look like that and appear to be mostly fur.

[PsychoSnake]

I had a similar experience with an adult rosy boa. He was a great eater but a month after I got him in September he started to regurge, repeatedly. I took him to the vet and they couldn't find anything wrong with him. His tests always came back negative. Then he stopped eating entirely which is odd for him as he LOVED to eat. Around January he started looking not so great but he died before I was able to get him to the vet. He died in my bedroom just after I went to sleep. I felt so bad when I woke up and found him.

My vet called me afterwards. It was his opinion that my rosy boa was suffering from a viral infection and the only thing we could do was palliative care.

As a safety precaution I bleached everyone's enclosure and snake tools and watched everyone for six months. Bleach is the most effective sanitizer. It didn't resurface.

It's normal to have fears about losing your collection when you suddenly lose someone, but you can't let it control you. Take some time off for yourself too.

[Snakesitter]

Rainbows will occasionally pass hair and hard-to-digest bits such as tails. Totally normal.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Ok good to hear. I've seen stuff like this off and on before, but I didn't want to assume he was healthy if this was abnormal. I figured it was, but obviously I'm a bit on edge. lol So cool, everyone still is showing no signs of illness.

I'm starting to think she really did succumb to a heat stroke. :( Her breeder seems to think it was possible, too, he said usually when people heat their rooms as warm as I do, they don't provide any extra heat. Ugh, I wish those results would come in. I'll be calling them later this afternoon and hopefully they found something. If anyone would like to view the report, I can post it here when I get in the mail.

[Minkness]

I'm curious what it was.

Is the breeder offering anything? Partial refund or replacement animal?

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'm curious what it was.

Is the breeder offering anything? Partial refund or replacement animal?

He's offering me a small discount on a new baby. I'm not expecting any recompense because I'm pretty sure this is all on me, but I may or may not take him up on his offer. I'm not sure if I want to get another BRB when I have plans to get a snow boa next year. I most likely will get a baby, because I had a few runner-ups that I almost chose over her, if they're still available, but it's not set in stone yet. I may even wait until next season if he plans on breeding more Picassos.

She was my absolute favorite out of all his babies this year, too. :(

[Minkness]

=(

I saybwait till you get the results. If ot wasn't on you, maybe you could get another baby from the breeder at no charge. Even if it is from next season's babies.

So sorry you aregoing through this. Wish I could send you a cyber hug.

[bigsnakegirl785]

=(

I saybwait till you get the results. If ot wasn't on you, maybe you could get another baby from the breeder at no charge. Even if it is from next season's babies.

So sorry you aregoing through this. Wish I could send you a cyber hug.

I'm not thinking it was the breeder's fault, surely I'd notice illness in my other snakes by now if she was ill, and if it was a congenital disease or she was born with a defect or something it's not his fault either. I won't ask for no charge on a baby, I think he's being quite generous giving me a discount considering I'd had her just over a month.

Thanks Minkness, I had her for only a short time and it still hurt she died. :( I wanted to watch her grow up and change, but I'm thankful I still have everyone else at least. If it turns out to have been the heat, I'll be sure to be more careful with the young rainbows. Sanji hadn't shown signs of the heated room being too much for him, but he's almost 1.5 years old now so he's not so delicate. He was raised in a room that wasn't heated, although he still faired pretty well in the summer without an A/C (I think the moss kept him nice and cool).

[Snakesitter]

They may not be able to say for sure if it was heat. While rainbows and heat do not mix well, this often won't be apparent on a necropsy. (And if it was heat, the age difference would explain it...at 1.5 years they have much better tolerance for the occasional climate or water oops.) Fingers crossed they can give you some closure.

[bigsnakegirl785]

They may not be able to say for sure if it was heat. While rainbows and heat do not mix well, this often won't be apparent on a necropsy. (And if it was heat, the age difference would explain it...at 1.5 years they have much better tolerance for the occasional climate or water oops.) Fingers crossed they can give you some closure.

I'm thinking not as well, if the results come in inconclusive, I'm just going to have to assume it was the heat, without any other signs it's the only logical explanation. If that's the case, any future baby BRBs I get will be kept in a room without the space heater, at least until they're older, but I may just start keeping my BRBs separate from the others so they can have a cooler room.

They still didn't have my results Friday, but I called rather early while they were on lunch break. They said they should have gotten them in today, so hopefully if I get a break at work before 4:30 tomorrow I can call them, otherwise I'll have to wait until Wednesday. The tests are done in Raleigh, so I won't get the results until the Raleigh lab sends them in, which is why I haven't gotten them yet.

[Snakesitter]

Good pathology work takes time. I'd rather let them have it and chase down all avenues, so as to have as complete an answer as possible.

How is your other noodle doing?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Good pathology work takes time. I'd rather let them have it and chase down all avenues, so as to have as complete an answer as possible.

How is your other noodle doing?

Yeah I called them today, and all they have is that they found salmonella and septicemia, which isn't surprising considering certain amounts of both are always present. As of right now, the histopathology hasn't come in so they can't even tell me where in the body they found the bacteria so as of right now it's not a probable cause. If they need more time, I could wait until next week to call, but they did say I could call tomorrow. I'm just worried about a disease in my other snakes, which is why I'm calling so often.

Everybody else is doing great so far, I figured since it would take so long to get the results, I'd go ahead and feed everyone. It's been 2-3 days and no one's showing signs of illness. The other BRB is also doing fine, I see him coming out at night and exploring like usual, nothing wrong with him physically. Not even a scale out of place.

[bigsnakegirl785]

So once the final reports came in, the vet who did her necropsy seemed to think that the septicimia infection did in face cause her death. They found inflammation in her liver, large intestine, and spleen. They also found some granulomas in her liver, and a mild case of pneumonia. The colonies they found in her intestines were rather large and fast-growing as well, but they didn't get any growth from the cultures taken from her lungs.

The granulomas would have been caused by the salmonella bacteriums, and the vet says that the pneumonia was probably a side-effect of her infection putting stress on her body and lowering her immune system further, and not a cause of her death.

From the information I provided, the vet said that the large meal was probably what caused the infection to start, paired with heat that wasn't high enough to help her digest her meal properly. Especially since she digested her first, smaller meal normally.

It's really unfortunate that this happened, because if she had shown any other signs I would have taken her to the vet. but she showed no symptoms of a septicimia infection other than the weird stool (which wasn't listed as a symptom when I google it). I wish I would have known it was too late to help her once her meal was already underdigested, so I could have taken her to the vet and got her the antibiotics she needed. :( I won't be so careless in the future.

I will be a little more careful with the size of prey I offer, and offer the usual meal size I offer to my snakes, and I'll keep future BRBs at slightly warmer temps than I did with Guin. I started Sanji off with his thermostat set to 85F for a floor temp of 83F, but I only set Guin's to 82F for a 79-80F hot spot. It's also possible that the overall heat of the room caused similar symptoms as being too cold (regurge, underdigestion, etc.), so I'll also keep my BRBs in a cooler room so they have a cool enough cool end.

I can attach some phone pics of the paper form of the report later, when I get it. I've got the electronic version, but it would be easier to omit personal information by just taking some photos.

[Minkness]

Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that! At least you know now so that you won't make the same mistake twice. =(

[bigsnakegirl785]

Oh man, I am so sorry to hear that! At least you know now so that you won't make the same mistake twice. =(

I knew underdigested meals were bad and potentially deadly, I just didn't think that raising her temps wouldn't have helped. If I notice something like this in the future, I'll be sure to take that snake to the vet for a check up so hopefully this won't happen again. I generally keep my snake's meals rather small, so this usually isn't an issue, but my other snakes are also more tolerant of high temperatures so I don't feel as bad offering extra heat as I do with my BRBs.

[Snakesitter]

Again, so sorry for your loss.

I'm surprised that too large of a meal could be listed as a source of death -- while regurgs are stressful, they are rarely fatal in and of themselves...especially within so short of a window. And sepsis is often a secondary infection after the immune system is weakened. I wonder if that rodent was just "bad"?

[bigsnakegirl785]

Again, so sorry for your loss.

I'm surprised that too large of a meal could be listed as a source of death -- while regurgs are stressful, they are rarely fatal in and of themselves...especially within so short of a window. And sepsis is often a secondary infection after the immune system is weakened. I wonder if that rodent was just "bad"?

It's possible. I did check the mouse for overall freshness, but maybe something else was in it? My BCI and other BRB are eating the same mice from the same bag as Guin did, and they're still doing fine 2 meals later.

The vet did say it was a combination of too low temps and a big meal, which would have resulted in some of the rodent going bad in her stomach. Essentially rotting because she couldn't digest it properly. This could have caused the rodent to go "bad."

Either way, it was the meal she was provided that was the culprit.

[Aaron_S]

It's possible. I did check the mouse for overall freshness, but maybe something else was in it? My BCI and other BRB are eating the same mice from the same bag as Guin did, and they're still doing fine 2 meals later.

The vet did say it was a combination of too low temps and a big meal, which would have resulted in some of the rodent going bad in her stomach. Essentially rotting because she couldn't digest it properly. This could have caused the rodent to go "bad."

Either way, it was the meal she was provided that was the culprit.

I find this very interesting.

My un-educated medical guess is there is something else underlying. Possibly neurological.

Snakes aren't that dumb to put themselves in that type of harms way. A snake will regurge usually when the temps aren't adequate to digest it all the way so the fact that this snake apparently didn't do that speaks volumes about the issue at hand.

I don't see any logic in a species willingly eating itself to death.

[Minkness]

I dunno about that Aaron. What about those snakes that eat prey too big for it causing it to suffocate or burst open? There's that anaxonda that ate a caiman too big fornit and it died, then I have seen where a BP ate another BP that was almost the same size as it's self and it's stomach burst to the point you could see the snake that it had eaten.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I find this very interesting.

My un-educated medical guess is there is something else underlying. Possibly neurological.

Snakes aren't that dumb to put themselves in that type of harms way. A snake will regurge usually when the temps aren't adequate to digest it all the way so the fact that this snake apparently didn't do that speaks volumes about the issue at hand.

I don't see any logic in a species willingly eating itself to death.

She did regurgitate. She had a small regurge 3 days after I fed her, and then what appeared to be underdigested poo about 7-8 days after her meal.

I dunno about that Aaron. What about those snakes that eat prey too big for it causing it to suffocate or burst open? There's that anaxonda that ate a caiman too big fornit and it died, then I have seen where a BP ate another BP that was almost the same size as it's self and it's stomach burst to the point you could see the snake that it had eaten.

I'm not sure about the caiman incidence, but if you're talking about the picture I think you're talking about, the ball python that was split open was incredibly emaciated, almost to the point of death. That, on top of the stress of the drive and being around so many other snakes, is most likely what led it to eating the other bp. You can even see a living bp at the top of the photo that looks like a skeleton. Or jerky, or something.

[Minkness]

I don't remember the pictures that vividly, but the BP was one I saw on this forum somewhere. No idea where now as it was way back when I first joined.

[Aaron_S]

I dunno about that Aaron. What about those snakes that eat prey too big for it causing it to suffocate or burst open? There's that anaxonda that ate a caiman too big fornit and it died, then I have seen where a BP ate another BP that was almost the same size as it's self and it's stomach burst to the point you could see the snake that it had eaten.

I have the ball python picture. There seemed to be extenuating circumstances with the story. I leave it at inconclusive as there's other pieces to the logic behind this.

The anaconda and caimen could be various reasons. The caimen was still alive and ripped the animal, the claws on the caimen could have caught the snakes insides and ripped it open and then other animals opened it up further. There's a multitude of logical answers that point to the size of the meal NOT being the culprit.

[Minkness]

Good to know. Thanks for the info =)

[treaux]

Interesting to think it was the food size. Makes me nervous about switching my little Marco to hoppers eventually (though that won't be for a while...).

[Snakesitter]

I'd suspect an undiagnosed "source" issue here that resulted in the multiple small secondary infections, which in turn led to the regurg that alerted you to the problem. It's too bad they did not open up one of the granulomas (it is my understanding that reptile immune systems trap problem bacteria in such granulomas) and run a culture; while a long shot, it may have yielded some additional answers.

At any rate, it's all academic now -- so long as a through disinfection was done (which I am sure you did) and everyone else is healthy (and they seem to be), things should be fine.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I'd suspect an undiagnosed "source" issue here that resulted in the multiple small secondary infections, which in turn led to the regurg that alerted you to the problem. It's too bad they did not open up one of the granulomas (it is my understanding that reptile immune systems trap problem bacteria in such granulomas) and run a culture; while a long shot, it may have yielded some additional answers.

At any rate, it's all academic now -- so long as a through disinfection was done (which I am sure you did) and everyone else is healthy (and they seem to be), things should be fine.

From my understanding, they did open the granulomas and found Salmonella arizonae bacterium within them. I could be mistaken, though, they did mention the granulomas and they did take samples from the liver. It wasn't mentioned in the report whether or not they tested the granulomas specifically. Most of the biggest, fastest-growing colonies were found in the large intestine, which to me indicates more of a digestive issue, since the intestines are where the majority of digestion takes place. Whether it was the prey size+temps, or a rodent gone bad I'm not sure.

Everybody else appears normal still, and with how fast Guin was affected I think we're past the point where I'd start noticing problems in everyone else. They have yet to pass feces from their most recent meal, but I've seen no regurges from anyone so far.

Interesting to think it was the food size. Makes me nervous about switching my little Marco to hoppers eventually (though that won't be for a while...).

If it was the prey size, it would be in conjunction with temperatures too low to allow for proper digestion of a meal that size. If it was the prey size in and of itself, they would notice physical damage in her digestive tract. I think your Marco will be fine being switched to hoppers when the time comes. :) My BRB Sanji is currently around 140-150 grams (he was 154 grams today, but ate recently so he's probably 140-something grams empty) and is almost ready to move up from hoppers. I moved him onto hoppers around the time he hit 80-85 grams, and he may have been able to moved to them a little sooner, not sure.

Here are the photos from the histopathology report.

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/Other%20Photos/IMG_2827_zpsz3zkobeh.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/Other%20Photos/IMG_2827_zpsz3zkobeh.jpg.html)

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/Other%20Photos/IMG_2828_zps31ddco5a.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/Other%20Photos/IMG_2828_zps31ddco5a.jpg.html)

http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p600/dtr_2009_/Other%20Photos/IMG_2829_zpsxmlcfmt2.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/dtr_2009_/media/Other%20Photos/IMG_2829_zpsxmlcfmt2.jpg.html)