Crypto

[SnowSnake]

Hi!

Can someone explain to me exactly what crypto is?

thank you,
SnowSnake

[Youkai]

It's a parasite that causes rapid weight loss in leos (most of the time) it is 100% fatal to leos. It can kill quickly, or sometimes the animals linger. Any animals with crypto, or that have come into contact with animals who have it should be put down, as it is extremely contagious.
Two big signs are weight loss and runny stools. But other parasites can cause those symptoms, so get fecals done to be sure.

[Alicewave]

Youkai is mostly right, however, some recent developments of a possible cure would indicate you might not want to put the animal down. Please see this link of some information I have recently become aware of:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10219&highlight=Cure+for+Crypto
It's really very interesting and exciting. I encourage anyone who has a crypto infected Leo and can afford to, attempt to obtain this medicine so that more reptiles can be tested to see if this treatment will work.

Crypto is only contagious through contact with feces so keep any infected animals separate and ALWAYS wash your hands. The only cleanser that kills Crypto is 10% Ammonia. Even 100% bleach doesn't kill this parasite for 2 hours. It is very difficult to diagnose, and as a result the test for Crypto is extremely expensive. Usually 100 dollars in the US. The parasite prevents nutrients in a geckos food from transferring to it's body. One of the most common warning signs for Crypto is a black spot on the belly. hope this helps.

[Alicewave]

New update. John is currently treating echo with this drug to slow down the crypto until he can obtain Alinia:
http://208.55.155.229/access/drugs/paro.html

[sunshine-x]

Hey ppl it's John.

I just got back from the vet late last night. I've got the new medication and have started treatment.

So far she's alive still so that's a good sign at least. It's a three day treatment, twice daily. She's had one day's worth, and will have another dose in an hour or so.

I don't know if it will work or not, but I sure hope so. Being a three day treatment I'd expect to see some signs of improvement tomorrow, maybe a solid poop, maybe normal activity/appetite. If things don't seem to improve the vet suggested I wait a bit and then double the dose for another three days. The TD50 for this medicine is huge so I'm not worried about an OD.

When (if) the symptoms go away, I'll send samples to the lab for further testing. Hopefully they'll come back negative!!

Either way, I'll keep you all up to date here.


Here's a link to some pics of the one that didn't make it, and my sick one Echo.

http://206.186.27.100/gecko

[beth wallbank]

I am sorry to hear that you are dealing with this. It is not nice and I would hate to see anything go through it. Boy, I wish you the best of luck. From what I have read though, there is no know 'cure' for crypto, and the animals usually perish due to secondary infections due to the crypto. I found this link that I read and found interesting. Explains a bit for those who are unsure of what this is exactly.
http://petstoreabuse.tripod.com/crypto.html
Good luck and keep us posted. Would love to see a cure for this.

[Alicewave]

Beth, if you read the other thread, John is trying a brand new drug that was just released mid-february to treat Human Crypto. It's the first drug of it's kind approved in the US. There is a very good chance that this will work.

[beth wallbank]

Alicewave, not doubting the human treatment for humans being tested, as I have done alot of research on this as well and am quite familiar with the illness and its causes and effects. I am just concerned in general, only because reptiles unlike mammals are cold blooded, and they host parasites and viruses much differently than warm blooded animals. Reptiles have been proven to carry parasites without any clinical signs or adverse side effects for several years without knowing. This drug you speak about has been made for mammal treatments, however, I suspect upon using this on reptiles, like any other drug used as a treatment, the reptiles usually end up living a more painful life and often succum to secondary infections other than the one being treated for. It seems our scaly friends are very resistent and sensitive to drug use, and medications are usually deadly or have serious side effects on reptiles.
I do hope that your friend has a positive outcome with this. And if by chance this does prove to work on reptiles, then it helps us all.

[The_Omen]

Actually, the humatin has had some testing done by some of the vet schools in the Raliegh Durham- chapel Hill area, don't have too many details or a site link yet, but I did learn of it about 2 months ago from a local leo breeder.
(I'll try to find more on their testing)

He found out from his vet due to having one of his leos contract crypto.
It was treated with humatin, successfully and is still alive and acting just like a good leo should.

[BigDan]

I know of U.S. breeder who has used this new drug on some crypto cases with excellant results. He has manged to save an extremely high percentage of the animals. He worked with a researcher at a University intially to determine dosages etc.

They used this new crypto drug for humans. The leos experienced no toxic effects and have resumed eating and are healthy once again.

Looks promising anyway.

Dan

[GECKOMAN]

i HAD NOT HEARD OF CRIPTO UTILL i READ THESE POSTS

[Alicewave]

Excellent points Beth, still at this point it is the only hope for a cure so I've got my fingers crossed. The Leo will die if Crypto goes untreated so it seems worthwhile to try this out to me.

[beth wallbank]

Alivewave, I do hope for your friends sake, and for anyone else relying on this drug that it is in fact a true thing. From what I have read and studied, this virus is truly a terror, and nothing really but almost pure bleach can even remove it from a contaminated environment. My fingers are crossed that this does work. In the mean time, I hope hope however, that your friend is practising the safest of quarentine proceedures, as it would be even more devastating to find any others contracting this.
Have any tests shown whether the offspring are infected when hatched? When doing research, I was shocked to read that there were unknowingly infected animals, that showed absolutely no visual signs of crypto, and the leos lead normal happy lives, but when it came to the babies hatching, they sucummed to the virus within days.
Keep us posted as this would be a sigh of relief I would think for alot of herp breeders.

[Alicewave]

Actually, from what I have read, pure bleach does not kill Crypto unless soaked in it for at least two hours, but that 10% ammonia will. He did have a crypto test done on this animal so he is positive of what he is treating. He already had one die of this and I don't believe he has any other reptiles, correct me if I'm wrong John. Also, John if you can post a link to that website that talks about how to kill crypto, it would be useful here. That's horrible about the babies hatching, it's such a nasty disease this would definitely be a big sigh of relief!

[sunshine-x]

Ron Tremper introduced me to a breeder in the US who obtained the same medication I'm using (Nitazoxanide AKA Alinia) and he's seen some really positive results.

He has over 400 leos. 90% are responding to treatment! So far my leo Echo has not started eating, but he's been treating his a bit longer than I've been treating Echo and at a higher dosage.

Once I know she's cured I will post all info about dosage etc. Until then I wouldn't want to mislead anyone since this is an experiment really. If you have a gecko with crypto email me.

Echo has show some signs of improvments, she's more active at night and feels stronger while I handle her. I think she's going to make it.

Here are the ways I know of to kill crypto:
- 10% Ammonia, 30mins contact
- 164 deg F (or greater) for 5+ seconds

Possibly kills it (but double check, I've heard these MAY work):
- Peroxide
- Alcohol
- intense sunlight (UVA/UVB), unknown duration so I don't recommend this method
- 2 hours without moisture (ie if the surface is dry for more than 2hrs it should be OK)

WON'T kill it:
- Bleach (supposedly it can live 2hrs in 100% household bleach)
- Iodine
- Chlorine (aka Bleach)
- Many filters won't strain it out

FYI - From now on, I give Echo water I've boiled and refrigereated just in case.

If you have anything in the enclosure that can be cooked in an oven (ie rocks, sand, wood, whatever), I cook mine at 300 F for 30 mins. Can't go wrong that way lol.

Oh - Because UV can possibly kill it (and does kill other nasties) I've started using a UV reptile light. We can debate all day about if it helps leos or not, the point is it definately helps keep her habitat disinfected.

Here are some interesting sites with info re nitazoxanide research on humans.

http://image.thelancet.com/extras/01art10193web.pdf

http://www.mosbysdrugconsult.com/DrugConsult/003576.html

http://www.sfaf.org/treatment/beta/b36/b36nitazox.html

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/recent/children/110402a.html

[Alicewave]

Wow! 400 Leos with Crypto! Yikes... (unelss I am misreading that). Really glad to hear it is working with the breeder. Are you planning to up echos dosage to what the breeder uses? Thanks for the info, continued good luck to you and Echo. :)

[sunshine-x]

Here's a good site, lots of info on what kills it:

http://agpublications.tamu.edu/pubs/vm/l5162.pdf

[sunshine-x]

UPDATE - Leos alive an well - Over a year after treatment with Alinia.