View Full Version : Need Help - TX Breeder Jimmy Horton
Kuamata
10-01-15, 12:39 PM
So, I decided to get my fiance a christmas gift and found a beautiful male Anery Red Tailed Boa on kingsnake's classifieds. He really suited the look my other would go for, nice neutral tones and a slight pink hue on the tail.
Naturally, I did my research and looked at FaunaClassifieds and nothing but good came up in my search. So, I decided to go through with this purchase... Now, I've waited all morning and the shipment finally arrived, I was really starting to get worried that it may end up a two day shipping, as all my reptiles have came in the morning hours.
I was about ready to go out for some errands and the fedex truck pulled up! Right off the bat, I was handed a standard brown box... no markings... no LIVE ANIMAL... not even writing that said there was a snake inside... All too reminiscent of the last time I had a DOA with Backwater(stupidly didn't research, was my first time shipping).
I whipped out my camera and opened it to make sure he was still alive. The packaging was less than acceptable. No styrofoam, no container. He was just packaged in a blank brown box with shredded newspaper, stuffed in a sock with a dry piece of paper towel.... No heat pack, since it's in the 50's and 60's... nothing..
I untaped the sock and pulled him out... Dehydrated, skin pinched up, and bones showing... I'm at a loss of what to do. Part of me wants to try to save him, but part of me knows if he dies, I'm out a nice chunk of money, but if I send him back, he may very well die. I messaged him about how displeased I was about his state of health... This doesn't just occur overnight...
Am I crazy? Is this normal? He is trying to say this is normal, a boney, wrinkled skin, limp snake because he doesn't 'powerfeed'... and, in my mind, I think that there's a difference between powerfeeding and flat out not feeding a snake or giving water.... Am I crazy? Is this normal?... Do you think he can be saved?
Picture in the ad:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/648ANY3M-med_zps0ruxpfts.jpg
My pictures:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2013.48.36_zpsuefzkq3t.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2013.45.36_zpswzl87rks.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2013.46.17_zpslo1gdwno.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2013.47.04_zpsgav34xvs.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2013.47.47_zpsac0hxgoj.jpg
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-10-01%2014.14.56_zps9y4djmns.jpg
Tsubaki
10-01-15, 01:22 PM
I have had rescues that looked like that which recovered, it's up to you really.. You could pursue getting a partial refund perhaps? Not really sure how that works. I agree this animal will probably not survive if you send it back, and i don't think i would have the heart to do so. He might be so dehydrated that he would look better after a good soak, hope the little guy will make it.
Aaron_S
10-01-15, 01:32 PM
The snake doesn't look that bad from the pictures. It looks to be alert in the last picture. It looks slightly thin but nothing too significant.
It's up to you as mentioned already. If you want to try to save it then go for it. If you want what you paid for, then return it for refund.
In either case I would post a BOI (not bad guy just a BOI) of how this person ships their animals with that first pic and any others taken of the shipping quality. Some of the unopened box would be ideal too to show the no labels or writing.
It's a poor attempt at shipping to save money.
EL Ziggy
10-01-15, 03:51 PM
I agree with the other members. He does look a bit thin and dehydrated but he can probably be nursed back to good health with a few good meals and proper husbandry. Best wishes.
Minkness
10-01-15, 04:18 PM
I would definitely post on the BOI, just make sure that you follow the rules for that.
While he looks to be in sad condition, I got a ball python rescue very much simmilar in condition to yours plus stck shed on her eye (4 eye caps) and head, AND mites...and my girl pulled through just fine.
Good hydration and a few meals and he will look amazing!!!
reptiledude987
10-01-15, 05:13 PM
I would give it a soak in some pedialite right away to help get him hydrated then get him in to some proper heat. hes not in great shape but Ive seen stuff from itnl orders come in, in worse shape than that and pull through. the key is to get it hydrated right away.
Kuamata
10-01-15, 05:24 PM
Happy to hear all the encouraging experiences from you all! That last pic of him was after getting him heated up and some water in his system, roughly 30 minutes after unpacking and getting him settled in.
I tried mentioning the partial refund and some of the concerns on here and he got really upset and decided to argue. I do have a problem with being honest, and people don't usually appreciate it... I was honest and told him I don't know why anyone would think that an animal in such condition would be suitable to sell or list, and I certainly wouldn't of listed him until he looked better off... Oh well, here's hoping he bounces back!
I did already post on the BOI. He didn't seem to appreciate me wanting to let others know, either. I listed it under Info so that others may decide for themselves, but I definitely will not be buying from him or recommending him. :/
Edit: Additionally, in response to the international shipments, I would expect this from maybe an import... but this is captive bred and born... He seems to think nothing is wrong with the way he's going about things because he offered a refund, but, to me, it's not about that... it's about mistreating an animal like this. I feel others should know what to expect from him; shoddy shipping and snakes that need a little TLC.
Aaron_S
10-01-15, 06:00 PM
Happy to hear all the encouraging experiences from you all! That last pic of him was after getting him heated up and some water in his system, roughly 30 minutes after unpacking and getting him settled in.
I tried mentioning the partial refund and some of the concerns on here and he got really upset and decided to argue. I do have a problem with being honest, and people don't usually appreciate it... I was honest and told him I don't know why anyone would think that an animal in such condition would be suitable to sell or list, and I certainly wouldn't of listed him until he looked better off... Oh well, here's hoping he bounces back!
I did already post on the BOI. He didn't seem to appreciate me wanting to let others know, either. I listed it under Info so that others may decide for themselves, but I definitely will not be buying from him or recommending him. :/
Edit: Additionally, in response to the international shipments, I would expect this from maybe an import... but this is captive bred and born... He seems to think nothing is wrong with the way he's going about things because he offered a refund, but, to me, it's not about that... it's about mistreating an animal like this. I feel others should know what to expect from him; shoddy shipping and snakes that need a little TLC.
To be fair, I give the seller credit for offering anything. A full refund isn't a bad offer.
To be fair to you, it's your decision to accept or decline and not request more than what you believe to be owed to you. To me that's a sign of a good buyer.
As for the snake, it looks to be a little too young to offer for sale. A couple more meals and it would have been good to go. Oh well. People are idiots lol.
I'm not sure if you're saying you received this snake from Backwater retiles or just that you received a DOA from them once. Who did you buy this from? That's ridiculous man. Like you said that doesn't happen over night. They need to be reported to anybody that's looking to buy reptiles. I think you should send it back if possible. That's a shame. I feel bad for you man.
Kuamata
10-01-15, 06:20 PM
Yep... I would of waited until he at least filled out a was a little bigger, but that's just me...
He came from Jimmy Horton at TexHiss, I was just saying the blank box reminded me of my experience with Backwater where I got a DOA. For sending him back, as I responded to someone on BOI(because I guess some people will root for another no matter what), I'm not going to do that. I've never shipped a live animal before, it's cold, and he came to me needing a little extra care to start... If I sent him back, he'd likely die, and I'm not going to do that to him... I don't care about the money, I mean, yeah, it sucks, I didn't get my definition of a healthy boa, but I'm not going to just not care about his life and say,"Yeah, I want my money, see ya." If there was no hope -at all- then, yeah, I'd probably cut my losses... but there is, so I'm going to at least try to do right by him.
Kuamata
10-01-15, 06:49 PM
Guys, is this true? I'm young, and had a mother that was scared of reptiles, so I don't have the luxury of being in the herp field for decades... Is it true that it's perfectly normal for your adult reptiles to just up and die for no apparent reason? Does the cause of death not come up on a necropsy?... because I'd be getting a necropsy if one of my animals up and died. Am I the bad guy, here, to be upset about the condition the animal came in? I'm not upset about the transaction, I paid for a snake, and got a snake even though it wasn't in as good a condition as the picture had suggested.
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u119/kuamata/what_zpssovu29li.png
Aaron_S
10-01-15, 07:31 PM
I'm going to have to step in as a moderator now and say we aren't a BOI so we have to be careful here going forward in this thread.
I can and will post on the fauna thread but for here, it's not something we do.
Aaron_S
10-01-15, 07:32 PM
Further, I can say sometimes animals do up and die. Not everyone gets a necropsy done however if one was done more times than not a reason will be found. Cancer or what have you.
a pet necropsy will not always determine COD. If there are obvious issues (think something that can be seeing with the unaided eye...liver hemorrhage, bowel ischemia), then necropsy helps you. I can't answer if tissue samples are submitted for histology to be examined microscopically. If so, then cellular causes may be revealed (think renal failure due to glomerular [filtering apparatus] disease)....this however is expensive and likely not typically performed on pet necropsy due to costs to the pet owner. The problem is, metabolic diseases, genetic issues, etc, may never be identified. So pet necropsy has its limitations.
Full on ballz out autopsy? That is very detailed and extensive.
Kuamata
10-01-15, 08:08 PM
Sorry, I was just genuinely curious if that's a common thing in the herp field. Cancer I would get, I know someone who recently lost their goose. Was seemingly happy and healthy, then got a prolapsed *****. Took him to the vet and he died seconds after being put under anesthesia. Vet thought it was weird, x-rayed, found he had a huge tumor over his testicles(which, for avians, is in the back). :( It wasn't obvious externally. I would personally do a necropsy if a seemingly healthy animal just keeled over after years, not reaching near its normal life expectancy, but that's me. I've never had to do one, so I didn't know what all it encompassed. Nice to know~
I guess you're right. I give you credit for thinking of the animal before the money. I guess I was just so angry to see someone ship a snake out in that condition. I had about 7 different people ship me snakes this past month and all (approx 20 ) the snakes looked excellent when I got them. Well good luck with that snake. I'm sure you will do a fine job of getting it back to good health.
Kuamata
10-07-15, 04:04 PM
Forgot to update you all here, but he started corkscrewing yesterday and passed on the way to the vet. :( Whether it was corkscrewing as a neurological, infectious, or worse complication(like IBD), or simply a death spiral, I will find out. I don't think neurological defects will pop up, but at least illnesses, dehydration, etc will. He's currently in a baggie in the fridge and will be taken to our nearest lab tomorrow for necropsy.
Minkness
10-07-15, 04:06 PM
Oh wow....I'm so sorry to hear that =(
prairiepanda
10-07-15, 04:29 PM
Poor little guy :( He certainly wasn't in shape to be sold at all. Does the seller's DOA policy cover this? Many breeders do offer a 7-day health guarantee.
Kuamata
10-07-15, 05:17 PM
His site doesn't specify, just says 100% satisfaction guarantee.
SnoopySnake
10-07-15, 05:27 PM
Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that :( Hopefully its nothing too serious that will affect the rest of your crew...Personally I'd probably get ahold of the seller and see what he can do for you, I can't think of anything you would have done that would cause that in the time you've had the snake, so its likely the problem lies in the seller and his other snakes are probably sick too.
Kuamata
10-07-15, 05:40 PM
Oh, I'm not worried about mine, he was in quarantine, I'm worried about HIS collection and his clientele. I've already contacted him on the off chance he unsubscribed from a thread elsewhere, waiting to hear back... Not too confident, though... He was pretty vehemently defending the statement that the animal was healthy...
As far as my set up, he was in a tub. Thermostat controlled UTH, warm side read in at 90F and cool side came up around 82F with the temp gun. 60% humidity. The lay out was a hide on each side and shallow dish(big enough to soak his body) in the middle.
jjhill001
10-07-15, 06:55 PM
You already made this post over on the BOI. This isn't really the place for it.
Kuamata
10-07-15, 07:03 PM
This was where I originally posted on help of what to do for this kind of situation, in which it was recommended I post there so others may know. Do the people of SsnakesS not have a right to know? :/ Sorry for updating people on his condition.
Aaron_S
10-08-15, 07:29 AM
You already made this post over on the BOI. This isn't really the place for it.
Thanks. We have moderators for this job. As I already posted this isn't the place to hash out that type of stuff. However if the poster wants to update everyone on the animal passing, that's welcomed as we allow anyone to use the forum to grieve over a lost pet.
This was where I originally posted on help of what to do for this kind of situation, in which it was recommended I post there so others may know. Do the people of SsnakesS not have a right to know? :/ Sorry for updating people on his condition.
As I posted, this isn't the place to hash out the issue soto speak or to worry about ToS's or anything. Yes, ssnakess members have a right to know but they also need to know where to find that info. It simply isn't our type of forum.
You're welcome to update the condition or your animal. I'm looking forward to finding out why it had passed.
Kuamata
10-08-15, 05:45 PM
Ah, I thought linking to other forums wasn't permitted. At least, I remember that was a rule, unless that changed a long time ago...
Aaron_S
10-09-15, 06:26 AM
Ah, I thought linking to other forums wasn't permitted. At least, I remember that was a rule, unless that changed a long time ago...
We don't allow the link but just say it's on the BOI and everyone can find it.
SnoopySnake
10-09-15, 08:59 AM
We don't allow the link but just say it's on the BOI and everyone can find it.
How do you search the BOI? I've always felt like such a dummy because I can't find it...
I think they are referring to Board of Inquiry on Fauna Classifieds. Google.
SnoopySnake
10-09-15, 09:25 AM
I think they are referring to Board of Inquiry on Fauna Classifieds. Google.
I know that. I meant how do you look people up on the BOI.
I know that. I meant how do you look people up on the BOI.
You can get to the forum the BOI is hosted on, right? Once you get there, there are actually two drop downs on the page, you can click on either, that will let you search. The search is limited to words that are at least 4 letters long and super common words will not be searched. It's best if you know as much as possible about the person you are looking for, business name, actual name and any user names, if possible. Then you can try them all or different combos of them and helps you know if you've found the right person and not just someone with a similar name/business name. That's why it's also a great thing if you make a BOI post, to be sure you spelled everything right and do include as much of the person's identifying names as you can. Really helps those searching for them!
(I'm the wrong one to talk, because search hates me and I rarely find what I'm looking for when I use it, however do have more success with the BOI search over any of the other forums)
Hopefully that helps you!
SnoopySnake
10-09-15, 10:19 AM
For some reason I don't have that :/
Are you registered there? I thought that you could search without being registered but I think, if I'm remembering right, that I talked to a few people recently that couldn't search while not being registered.
Edit, in fact I just went and logged out and don't have a search option while not logged in. So I'd guess that you either aren't registered or are not being logged in properly.
SnoopySnake
10-09-15, 10:29 AM
Totally forgot I have an account, that was it, thank you! Don't I feel dumb...
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