Restricted Herps Essay [Archive] - sSNAKESs : Reptile Forum

DDW

09-24-15, 05:21 PM

I know this isn't about careing for herps or anything, but I am writing a problem-solution essay for college. I can't site anything but I can ask people. I want to write about the problem of people illegally owning, catching, and releasing herps that are restricted or limited. (Maybe even touch on the Lacey Act if it fits) I want to propose simple solutions like additional permits with some strict conditions. I want to represent our comunity well so I am looking for some help. Here, I request information about restrictions here in the US as well as opinions of everyone regardless on area. The essay is limited to 600-800 words.
Thankyou all for any help.

DDW

09-25-15, 11:11 AM

Also, I can use pictures for the presentation.

chairman

09-25-15, 02:12 PM

Only 600-800 words? Not a lot of real estate to work with. My thoughts...

Make law enforcement officials apply existing animal cruelty laws to reptiles. I post a picture of a dog that I've decapitated with a shovel to see if it is a pit bull or not and I'm going to jail; do the same for a snake and I get kudos. That attitude has to change, people won't stop inappropriately disposing of reptiles as long as they're viewed as disposable.

Then get funding, training, and equipment for local animal shelters to take in reptiles. It seems like 99% of "reptile rescues" are shameless flippers that hope an animal they're not feeding or heating survives long enough to make a couple dollars off. If there were real rescue facilities then people may be less likely to dump their pets in the wild.

Enforce existing wildlife management laws as they apply to natives. Once again, no one seems to have the knowledge or enthusiasm to protect reptiles.

Your opinion of passing new laws is one that I wouldn't support. We already have laws, we need education, enforcement, and a little compassion for scaled critters.

Minkness

09-25-15, 04:54 PM

Very well said Chairman

Albert Clark

09-25-15, 05:49 PM

Sounds great! The owning and catching and reieasing of limited and restricted species is a good highlight. Try to include how the hobby and industry needs to police itself as well in those areas through education and testing to obtain the appropriate certification and licensing. Weeding out the "underground" collection and sales of federally protected reptiles. The collecting and selling of wild reptiles in general and of course any and all native species. How captive bred collections should be the mainstay and that should be the law. And all wild populations can remain safe to control the rodent populations that destroy farmers crops. Allow wild kingsnakes and other ophiophagus species control venomous populations. Let the U.S.F.W.S. work with U.S.A.R.K. to advance the well being of all reptiles for the good that they do. I think I digressed a little but you get my points? Hope this stirred up some ideas to assist you with the essay. :Wow:

DDW

09-26-15, 07:27 AM

I'm thinking about perhaps instead of playing with laws, maybe I should play on the side of raising awareness of the welfare of reptile like abuse and the illegal capturing/releasing of reptiles in order to reduse these problems. How's that sound? That can be a bit less long winded.

DDW

09-26-15, 08:07 AM

And talking about kings and how great they are at keeping rodent and venomous snake populations down. Maybe even talk about easily identifying venomous snakes without having to kill them.

chairman

09-26-15, 09:13 AM

Focusing on hots probably isn't going to help natives in the long term. Most non-herpers won't dedicate enough attention to make accurate identifications. Even if a program managed to get people to accurately identify hots, it'd probably just result in localized extinction events. Better to focus on preserving them all, especially if you're looking at Albert's comments on emphasizing captive collections... hots are always the first to get banned.

Albert Clark

09-26-15, 10:52 AM

Well I think there should be special requirements and training for those keepers who want to keep hots. That should lead to licensing for those individuals capable of passing those tests. I don't feel hots should be banned. The testing and special requirements should be very difficult and strict and should include a probationary period to include fines and licensing suspensions for irresponsible behavior and mishaps. Venomous is nothing to be laxed about. Any person found to keep them without proper licensing should face jail time first with applicable fines and confiscation of the animals. Chairman, your recommendation on more rescue shelters is a solution as well and there should be special rescue areas within the shelter for hots. Maybe like a special room with appropriate staff. :)

DDW

09-26-15, 05:49 PM

My instructor did make a point to go the free route first as if I'm actually representing this to people in power. The specialized area for shelters is a good idea, it's hard enough already for shelters to keep the animals they already have. It'd be easier to get a specialized area (not to mention the staff) for a horse than for snakes unfortunately. :( I understand the reluctance of including hots and the identification of hots.

Also, I'm looking for cute herp pics(cute as possible. Google isn't helping me much so I was hoping y'all would have some.)

DDW

09-29-15, 06:21 PM

i have to have a presentation ready this Thursday, wish me luck and any input is always welcome. Thanks ya'll.

DDW

09-29-15, 06:31 PM

Also, when I presented the idea to the teacher, she said that I had to come up with a way to make others care about the reptiles somehow(with a picture or someting) any pics you have that might help my case would be super helpful:)

MDT

09-29-15, 06:50 PM

Awwwww....... :)

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh572/mtucker66/snake%20hug_zpsduirvzsh.jpg (http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/mtucker66/media/snake%20hug_zpsduirvzsh.jpg.html)

Does this work?? :D

DDW

09-29-15, 06:53 PM

That is adorable, however, I don't want the thought to be "That child has been put in danger, that snake could eat him whole" Though that berm is certainly being a good snek^.=.^ thanks

MDT

09-29-15, 06:55 PM

you shoulda seen the one i didn't post!!

(just kidding, i really got nuthin'! best of luck on the presentation though!)

DDW

09-29-15, 06:55 PM

I am searching pics of hurt reptiles like burns and starving to show people that reptiles are suffering unduely.

DDW

09-29-15, 06:56 PM

you shoulda seen the one i didn't post!!

(just kidding, i really got nuthin'! best of luck on the presentation though!)

Thankyou, there are some super cute leopard gecko pics out there, as well as chameleons. XD

pet_snake_78

09-29-15, 09:38 PM

chairman

09-30-15, 07:06 AM

Technically an invasive species, but smiling frog is smiling.

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad77/chairman_tfo/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150924_2107029_rewind_zpssgcs0o5l.jpg (http://s923.photobucket.com/user/chairman_tfo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150924_2107029_rewind_zpssgcs0o5l.jpg.html)

Albert Clark

09-30-15, 08:09 AM

DDW, Feel free to use these pics of my 2015 super granite pastel checkered garter snakes that I produced back in April. The smaller female was the runt of the litter. :) They are siblings. IDK if it gets more cuter than this runt.

DDW

09-30-15, 07:35 PM

I actually think a better track to take is that few reptiles need protection from collecting for the pet trade. There is a terrible misrepresentation by nature center type people that somehow a couple of kids catching snakes or the occasional hobbyist causes declines in populations. It's like saying a couple of guys with a pole are depleting the ocean. See detailed information here http://www.fgc.ca.gov/meetings/2014/apr/24_8.pdf

The problem I ran into is trying to get people to really care:/ as a member of the herp community, I understand and support your point, however, I don't know how I would get people not in the hobby caring about it. And I can't site anything for this(odd I know) and I don't know enough about it to really write on it. Sorry.

chairman

10-01-15, 07:36 AM

Probably too late for your paper or presentation but....

Empathy exists on a scale, no empathy to high empathy. Empathy is generally related to how "distant" things are from you. I think this example comes from Scandinavia, but there are basically three types of living things: the "us", the "them", and the "alien/other". It is easier to empathize with the us than the alien. Applied to the animal kingdom, dogs are much closer to us and snakes are much closer to alien. One could make the argument that snake keepers are either a) more empathetic than people who hate snakes (because they empathize with the alien) or b) are more accepting of diversity (because they lump more people/things in us and them than alien).

Highly debatable, easily studyable, and good fodder for an academic environment. Could probably even find citations for a paper with a word count limit that better allows for substance.

chairman

10-01-15, 07:49 AM

DDW

10-01-15, 06:50 PM

Oh, for applicability or strength of argument, people love to insist that they're more empathetic and more accepting of diversity than they really are. Convince people that disliking snakes is an indicator of lack of empathy or intolerance of diversity and at the very least people will vocally pretend to care.

I touched on how reptiles are seen differently than other animals by most people. the first slide of the power point has a picture of a starving dog and a picture of a dead iguana in captivity and the text says "What is the difference between two innocent lives…when one has scales and one has fur?" think that will be enough?

chairman

10-01-15, 08:50 PM

The slide sounds adequate. Remember, this exercise is not designed to change people's opinions or win hearts, it is designed with the specific goal of teaching you how to identify problems, determine root causes, develop proposed solutions, etc. I'm not saying that the line of reasoning isn't worth further study or implementation, it is just that school assignments typically hijack your interests to motivate you to learn something else.

DDW

10-04-15, 04:50 PM

I was not called on thursday so I have untile tuesday to continue working on my presentation.

I know it's not to change hearts, I just want them to understand that abuse is not restricted to just the common pets like cats and dogs. I am also throwing in how kingsnakes help in the wild, and how they can make good pretty/cute pets. (I put together some colages. one is for cute one is for pretty, and one is for injured and sick reptiles) and kingsnake + rattlesnake = dinner

DDW

10-10-15, 08:15 PM

So, the presentation went well, but now I have the essay part due this Tuesday.

Would anyone like to review what I have written so far? I don't want to post it directly here because I know not everyone wants to read almost 800 words. Well, if anyone seriously wants to reveiw it, just pm me please. I'll try to keep a close eye on my messages.

Thankyou everyone for all the help. I really apreciate it.

reptiledude987

10-17-15, 03:05 PM

I tried to PM you and wasnt able to send you a message as Im interested to read your essay. You may need to empty your inbox and sent folder.

DDW

10-27-15, 11:30 AM

I tried to PM you and wasnt able to send you a message as Im interested to read your essay. You may need to empty your inbox and sent folder.

I'm sorry I didn't reply. I can still send you the essay but it has already been turned in. (Ive never used my PM thing. I thought it would work on its own. It says I have 0 messages stored out of 70 allowed:/

I've had a lot going on including a trip to the hospital. I'm sorry I haven't been on for a while /: