Please tell me its a good one.

[jballard]

Hello everyone, I was cleaning an old shed today and was spooked by a snake.

I understand how they are important critters so I don't kill them, I got it in my shovel and flung him out in the grass.
Although I appreciate what they do if I knew it was a rattler I'd probably chopped him.

Anyone know what it is?
Thanks.......

[FWK]

It is a Rat Snake, one of the three in the Black Rat complex. It is harmless. With a location I could tell you which one. Thanks for letting it go on its way.

[rubbertoes]

It looks like a Texas rat snake. Are you in texas or surrounding states?
Edit: please dont kill it. it can be safely relocated if you dont want it on your property.

[jballard]

I'm in South Central Kansas.... Thanks for the reply guys, I got him in the scoop shovel and put him outside.

[rubbertoes]

Ok based on your location i would say great plains rat snake. glad we could help!

[FWK]

You were closer with your first guess Rubbertoes. The south-central Kansas location would be right at the northern edge of the Texas Rat Snake (Elaphe obsoleta lindheimeri) and Black Rat Snake (E. o. obsoleta) intergrade zone. However, neither of these subspecies have been recognized since 2007. This is a Western Rat Snake (Pantherophis obsoleta), the western-most species in the Black Rat complex. Great Plains Rat Snakes (Emory's Rat Snake/Pantherophis emoryi) have a much cleaner pattern with the saddles set closer together.

Thanks again for letting it go jballard, and thanks for sharing.

[rubbertoes]

Yeah, i hate how its western, central, and eastern ratsnake now. i prefer the individuality. I still call them by their previous names

[FWK]

I used to be the same way, and I still agree with you to a certain extent. But once I finally got the source of the changes and read the papers themselves (as tedious as that can be) I understood the reasons for all the changes and why the old subspecies didn't really make a lot of sense. The was virtually no morphological difference between the old subspecies, they were basically divided up by colors and pattern. It would be sort of like dividing up Ball Python morphs up into a bunch of different subspecies. The different colors and patterns found in Black Rat Snakes are just natural morphs that happen to be dominate in certain parts of their range. The three species that are recognized now are separated by natural barriers and have been evolving separately long enough to be considered genetically distinct, though not morphologically distinct.

[jballard]

One thing that really stood out to me and had me pretty scared......not going to lie, was the shape of its head, not like the garter snakes I usually see. I know absolutely zilch about snakes so I'm so glad you all cleared it up for me, needless to say the cleaning came to a screeching halt... I pictured the possibility of the whole family deeper in.....

[SSSSnakes]

if I knew it was a rattler I'd probably chopped him.
.

Please don't kill any snake venomous or not. All snakes play an important role in our eco system.

[eminart]

One thing that really stood out to me and had me pretty scared......not going to lie, was the shape of its head, not like the garter snakes I usually see. I know absolutely zilch about snakes so I'm so glad you all cleared it up for me, needless to say the cleaning came to a screeching halt... I pictured the possibility of the whole family deeper in.....


That whole "triangular head" thing is a bit misleading. It's true that a pit viper's head is distinctive, but to a person who isn't familiar with snakes, many others can have a triangular head.

[eminart]

I used to be the same way, and I still agree with you to a certain extent. But once I finally got the source of the changes and read the papers themselves (as tedious as that can be) I understood the reasons for all the changes and why the old subspecies didn't really make a lot of sense. The was virtually no morphological difference between the old subspecies, they were basically divided up by colors and pattern. It would be sort of like dividing up Ball Python morphs up into a bunch of different subspecies. The different colors and patterns found in Black Rat Snakes are just natural morphs that happen to be dominate in certain parts of their range. The three species that are recognized now are separated by natural barriers and have been evolving separately long enough to be considered genetically distinct, though not morphologically distinct.


Do you have a link, or any info on how they're split up? I'm STILL confused on the rat snakes. It's difficult when searching to know which is the new info and which is the old.

[jballard]

Please don't kill any snake venomous or not. All snakes play an important role in our eco system.

If I'm out in a pasture or the road I'd probably just go the other way if I saw a rattlesnake but in my yard where my two young children play I'd probably kill it.

Looking at pictures of rattlesnake bites makes it a clear decision for me.

[SSSSnakes]

If I'm out in a pasture or the road I'd probably just go the other way if I saw a rattlesnake but in my yard where my two young children play I'd probably kill it.

Looking at pictures of rattlesnake bites makes it a clear decision for me.

We can't just kill things in nature that maybe a threat to us. We need to teach our children to respect and not destroy. Nature was here first, we are the intruders. In my state killing a rattlesnake is a crime. Education is the key. This is not intended to be rude nor am I trying to start an argument, we just need to be environmentally conscience.

[FWK]

Do you have a link, or any info on how they're split up? I'm STILL confused on the rat snakes. It's difficult when searching to know which is the new info and which is the old.

Sure, I should have the paper bookmarked on my computer at home. I'll link it when I get home tonight.

We can't just kill things in nature that maybe a threat to us. We need to teach our children to respect and not destroy. Nature was here first, we are the intruders. In my state killing a rattlesnake is a crime. Education is the key. This is not intended to be rude nor am I trying to start an argument, we just need to be environmentally conscience.

^^ All of this, well said.

[jballard]

We can't just kill things in nature that maybe a threat to us. We need to teach our children to respect and not destroy. Nature was here first, we are the intruders. In my state killing a rattlesnake is a crime. Education is the key. This is not intended to be rude nor am I trying to start an argument, we just need to be environmentally conscience.

I can see your statement meaning more towards something like the big rattlesnake roundup where people are actually hunting them but I'm not talking about actively seeking one to kill.
I can't imagine seeing my child with their flesh rotting off their bone.

Again I'm not a snake person so I'm curious what could the rattlesnake that I would have killed do that the rat snake I let live couldn't?

I respect and understand what you're saying and that's why I'd never just kill one for the fun of it.

[trailblazer295]

I believe his point isn't about hunting a snake or killing for fun but simply killing it because you crossed paths and don't like it. A snake isn't like a bear or large animals that might chase you. A snake will strike from the spot it sits in defense but if you move away it won't chase after you. If you find one to close to comfort near your home call a qualified wildlife person to relocate it.

[rubbertoes]

we are getting this thread way too off topic, i made a new one if we want to keep discussing this

[rubbertoes]

I believe his point isn't about hunting a snake or killing for fun but simply killing it because you crossed paths and don't like it. A snake isn't like a bear or large animals that might chase you. A snake will strike from the spot it sits in defense but if you move away it won't chase after you. If you find one to close to comfort near your home call a qualified wildlife person to relocate it.

And on one last note, I can understand why he would want to kill it, for example a copperhead coiled up in some dead leaves would be hard to see to a child, and they could be potentially bitten. BUT i do not agree with killing it. children can be educated to watch for them and snakes can be relocated.

[jballard]

I'll just end my time here on the forum with a thank you to everyone for telling me what the snake was.

[trailblazer295]

And on one last note, I can understand why he would want to kill it, for example a copperhead coiled up in some dead leaves would be hard to see to a child, and they could be potentially bitten. BUT i do not agree with killing it. children can be educated to watch for them and snakes can be relocated.

I get the fear, I don't have kids. I was just clarifying the point.