It's a sad day

[trailblazer295]

Well this day didn't go very well. Woke up and checked in on the reptiles as I always do in the morning. Quick scan of temperature, humidity and see where they are in the cage. This morning I found my vine snake laying on the ground with his face in the dirt. I thought he was dead from his positioning. When I touched his tail he moved but a slow flail of his body. I looked online to find the closest reptile vet which of course was closed today being a holiday. They listed an after hours place a bit further away. I couldn't reach them on the phone but their message said if it's an emergency just come in. I pack him up in the container I bought him in and drove there. Despite the regular clinic listing reptiles this one didn't have anyone who works with them. They made a few phone calls and the only place in the are who had someone on call that deals with reptiles was over 100km away. You'd think living near a big city in a region with over 5 million people there would be more vets that deal with reptiles. Anyway gassed up the truck and hit the highway. I was wondering whether he would even be alive when I got there as he turned belly up during the drive and didn't look good at all. I kept the truck warm so he didn't get cold. He was alive when I got there over an hour later. The vet didn't think he had a good prognosis. They gave him a warm bath and some calcium to see if he would respond. He didn't respond and was still moving very slowly if you touched him. Vet said his heart sounded okay. Yesterday he was alert and in the branches and this morning I find him like this. While we were discussing options, the vet was recommending euthanasia due to the poor condition he was in and not responding to the calcium. In the time it took for them to bring him into the room so I could see him before they did the injection and sign the form to authorize it little CriKee decided on his own it was time. He didn't move when I touched him and sure enough they checked no heart beat. Feel really crappy and feel I failed him. One day he seemed fine, he has eaten the two times I've offered food. Even took a rat pinkie last week instead of mice hoppers so no danger to him being hurt. But for some reason less then 24hrs later he is laying dead. Feels like I failed him, was my job to look after him and well here we are. I took him home so I can bury him in my backyard.

[EL Ziggy]

Aww man. I'm so sorry for your loss Blaze. It's obvious that you cared for him and tried to give hime the best care you could. Sometimes these things are just beyond our control. Don't beat yourself up bud. RIP CriKee.

[David VB]

Sorry for your loss man...

[dave himself]

It sucks when we lose one of our animals mate, but you did all you could for him :(

[serpentgirl123]

I am so sorry for your loss. You cared for him deeply and did all that you could.

[Rattlehead]

So sad man, your effort for the little guy is an example for everyone. Sorry for your loss.

[toddnbecka]

Must have been his time, nothing you can do about that. Sorry for the loss, never a good thing to lose one.

[pinefamily]

So sorry to hear that, Trailblazer. Don't go beating yourself up that you might have done something wrong. You did very well finding some vet assistance (it is strange there aren't more reptile vets in the area), and from reading your other thread, you did a lot to make sure the snake was properly looked after.
I am sure you will learn from the experience. And remember, you never mourn alone.

[trailblazer295]

Thanks everyone, the vet said usually with reptiles it's a slow decline not a sudden nosedive. They'd never seen this species before outside of a zoo and didn't know people kept them as pets. Thought he was very cool and interesting. The vet gave me a look when she asked me what the cage setup, and parameters were. Showed a few pictures on my cell as well. Her response was "that's better than most people". I've basically shut the cage down for now, left the plant bulbs on on the timer to keep them alive. Eventually figure out what to do with it. Setup and designed around a tropical aboreal snake.

[Boots]

Very sorry to read about your loss. My condolences.

Jason

[reptiledude987]

Thats a shame man. I know how much time and effort you put in to having his conditions right And from the conversations we had your husbandry was perfect. Dont blame yourself on this one. This is one of the drawbacks to getting wild caught specimens. Theres no way of knowing how old they are when you get them. Given your setup I feel it had nothing to do with the care you were providing and it was simply his time. Very sorry for your loss. If you decide that you want to get a new vinesnake pm me as I know a supplier who is able to get them in.

[Albert Clark]

So terribly sorry TB for your loss. I know its a difficult pill to swallow but you did all you could man . You have to keep telling yourself that bc we don't have the final say about life or death. We do what we can to sustain the lives of our animals and the rest is fate. Thanks for being a great reptile keeper.

[trailblazer295]

Thats a shame man. I know how much time and effort you put in to having his conditions right And from the conversations we had your husbandry was perfect. Dont blame yourself on this one. This is one of the drawbacks to getting wild caught specimens. Theres no way of knowing how old they are when you get them. Given your setup I feel it had nothing to do with the care you were providing and it was simply his time. Very sorry for your loss. If you decide that you want to get a new vinesnake pm me as I know a supplier who is able to get them in.

I don't know if I want to try another vine snake. As cool and interesting as they are just a really crappy experience. Not sure what I want to do with the cage right now. I have cage setup for a tropical arboreal species. Not to many snakes fit the bill, the lizards that fit would be anonles, cresties, day geckos or chameleons. Guy at the store thinks I've got a good setup for a panther. He didn't think it was my care that caused it to die either. His words "I know how OCD you are so I'm not going to even question the caging". But ya his opinion is a Chameleon is right for me. Giving how I am and my caging. Not really sure of anything right now. Spent the time and effort to setup a planted high humidity environment it's really all it's suited for.

[trailblazer295]

I've since buried CriKee in my backyard, an artist friend is going to paint a green snake on a rock for a headstone. Just marked the spot for now. Still sucks looking at it. Little guy never puffed, struck or did anything when I held him or was in his cage but try and get away or chilled in my hand. Watched me when I worked on Mushus cage. He did the head sway a lot when looking at me or even the fish in my aquarium. Such an interesting looking snake and the plants didn't even get a chance to grow in to watch him disappear in the green.

[jjhill001]

Was it old? I know that some of the thinner bodied snakes have shorter lifespans. Could have just gotten old and had a heart attack or something.

For the terrarium you could try one of those green snakes that eat crickets. It's an arboreal specie and they are usually considered cheap throw away snakes but I think they may be under appreciated and one or two would probably love that setup.

[trailblazer295]

Was it old? I know that some of the thinner bodied snakes have shorter lifespans. Could have just gotten old and had a heart attack or something.

For the terrarium you could try one of those green snakes that eat crickets. It's an arboreal specie and they are usually considered cheap throw away snakes but I think they may be under appreciated and one or two would probably love that setup.

Vine snakes are typically WC so age is basically impossible unless you get an obvious juvie. I'm only aware of it being in captivity for about 3 years. Extent of my knowledge is he was at the store then sold to a guy for 2yrs who switched it to rodents then sold back to the store for 6 months then to me for 1 month. I've heard of them recently but never seen one in person.

[jjhill001]

Vine snakes are typically WC so age is basically impossible unless you get an obvious juvie. I'm only aware of it being in captivity for about 3 years. Extent of my knowledge is he was at the store then sold to a guy for 2yrs who switched it to rodents then sold back to the store for 6 months then to me for 1 month. I've heard of them recently but never seen one in person.

Any thoughts that the rodent diet could have had something to do with it? Vine snakes eat frogs and lizards typically right?

[trailblazer295]

Any thoughts that the rodent diet could have had something to do with it? Vine snakes eat frogs and lizards typically right?

I don't really have the knowledge to have an educated answer. The lizards they eat are typically anoles and house geckos. Wild caught and typically higher parasite load. Commercially bred rodents don't. What the health content of the two is I don't know.

[AlexCrazy]

Hi... So sorry for your loss T. Blazer... Like some said.. Don't beat your self up... You did everything you could.. Better than a lot of people would. But i know how you feel.. I also beat my self up when I lost my pet. My condolence.. Best of luck to you.

[malgus]

Condolences brother, its never easy losing a pet. Hope this doesn't stop you from getting back on the horse and owning more.

[Roman]

Sorry for your loss!

Any thoughts that the rodent diet could have had something to do with it?

Rodents seem to be more nutritious than lizards, they have more fat, at least that’s what I heard from other keepers here in Germany. So basically feeding a vine snake rodents on a regular basis is like eating cheeseburger, fries and an extra large coke every day. If your vet would have done an autopsy he most probably would have found a fatty liver, resulting in a general organ damage.

It was certainly not your fault, the few mice you fed your snake during this time probably didn’t do any more harm, I suppose it would have died at the petshop as well.

In my opinion vine snakes (or any other lizard eating snake) should only be kept if you can provide lizards as food on a regular basis and add a rodent occationally.

Roman

[Eggplant]

:( so sorry to hear that.. *hug*

[trailblazer295]

Sorry for your loss!



Rodents seem to be more nutritious than lizards, they have more fat, at least that’s what I heard from other keepers here in Germany. So basically feeding a vine snake rodents on a regular basis is like eating cheeseburger, fries and an extra large coke every day. If your vet would have done an autopsy he most probably would have found a fatty liver, resulting in a general organ damage.

It was certainly not your fault, the few mice you fed your snake during this time probably didn’t do any more harm, I suppose it would have died at the petshop as well.

In my opinion vine snakes (or any other lizard eating snake) should only be kept if you can provide lizards as food on a regular basis and add a rodent occationally.

Roman

I didn't bother trying to do a autopsy, wouldn't change that it's dead. Rather have buried at home. This one was already switched. I haven't found a feeder lizard source in my area so wouldn't buy one that needed that.

[Mrs.H1017]

So truly sorry for your loss!

[Mr.RedBeard]

Sorry for your loss.... It is always sad to lose a pet, they are family to many of us.

[trailblazer295]

The rebirth of his former tank.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/rhacodactylus/110652-planted-crestie-tank.html#post976132