Repti-links for reptiles - Alternative food source for reptiles

[Mikoh4792]

I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but I thought you guys would find this product interesting. These are not to be confused with the "snake-steak" sausages sold in the past...this is a completely new product being made by different people. All they are, are whole animals(venison, chicken, rabbit) ground up and stuffed in protein/collagen casings. So that includes meat, bones, and guts. They also make a meat/veggie combo for those who keep omnivores like tegus.

Reptilinks.com

Here is a discussion on it by the owners on this podcast episode for those who are interested.

» The Nick Mutton Show – Herp Nation Radio Network – Herp Nation Media (http://www.herpnation.com/audio/nms11-081115/?simple_nav_category=audio)

[Mikoh4792]

I've begun feeding these to some of my snakes, and will be keeping track on growth and overall fitness compared to a rat only diet.

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11904064_10153585022613934_5350272332073827706_n.j pg?oh=6c35750c87c1075c7204d22f520f378e&oe=567C778D


https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11866202_10153575900423934_5023173548086478464_n.j pg?oh=19bb1dd62f15bcc0142dd2effca7ec30&oe=563C5438

[serpentgirl123]

Yes, please keep us posted as I am very interested. I had thought about getting repti-links but after talking to one of the owners decided it would not be the best food choice for me and my snakes.

[Sasha2]

Sounds awesome. I wouldnt make it a staple but would keep them for emergencies.
The more you mess with stuff the more problems arise.Mixing gut contents with the meat could be a problem.Bacteria can multiply so fast, especially when you heat it up to feed.

[bigsnakegirl785]

I don't see this as an option for me and my snakes, whole prey is perfectly fine and easy to obtain for me.

I would like a link to the nutritional chart for these, as I've heard the fat content is extremely high and the protein very low. I'd like an actual chart to compare to see for myself, if there's one available.

[serpentgirl123]

I agree with you bigsnakegirl785--

It is the main reason I decided against the repti-links--the fat content and calorie levels were too high for me (2-3x more than a mouse/rat of the same size). I have mostly boas, which tend to have a slow metabolism anyway and don't digest fat particularly well, so I will probably stick to rats.

[Tiny Boidae]

Link Nutrition & Sizing ? Reptilinks whole-prey (http://www.reptilinks.com/the-links/)
^There's the nutritional chart for the links

No where near enough protein content for a carnivore. About half what is needed, and the fat is ridiculously high. It might be good to fatten up a previously-sick animal, but I'm not sure how easy these hotdogs would be to digest. Definitely wouldn't feed this as a staple, but it probably has it's uses in certain situations (a female after she's laid her clutch, an emancipated animal, MAYBE getting an animal to eat with you (not sure how easy it is to get them to eat this, but they probably like it after all everything delicious and right with the world is bafflingly unhealthy for you)). Thanks for sharing, but it kinda seems like a cash-grab with a pretty sticker on the front to me.

[that1guy]

I don't see this as an option for me and my snakes, whole prey is perfectly fine and easy to obtain for me.

Agreed. I heard about these before but why? It's not like there is a shortage of rats or rabbits. I can understand the meat, veggies,and fruit mix for large lizards that are picky eater about eating their veggies. I don't see any reason for the links for snakes though when natural whole prey is so easy to obtain.

[Aaron_S]

I'm impressed by the simple fact that carpet pythons are eating these. Carpet pythons are notorious for being difficult to switch prey items.

On a side note, it just seems like it came up as a way to get people's snakes larger and closer to breeding in less time frame. The issue is, for me, as a person who breeds snakes, larger (aka fat) snakes don't necessarily make the best breeders. So this is a no go for me.

[lady_bug87]

I wouldn't mind keeping these in hand for the omnivorous lizards. Just to add variety and i hate crickets.

[reptiledude987]

Agreed. I heard about these before but why? It's not like there is a shortage of rats or rabbits. I can understand the meat, veggies,and fruit mix for large lizards that are picky eater about eating their veggies. I don't see any reason for the links for snakes though when natural whole prey is so easy to obtain.

There was a thread for this product a while ago and the same question was asked. What it came down to was the nutritional content per gram. The links have higher vitamin and protien content than the raw animal. Also if I remember correctly they remove the fur from the prey items also making them easier to digest.

[sirtalis]

Those pictures lol

[jjhill001]

Pretty sure that one of the big problems with reptiles is obesity. Most people over feed their animals in general and the fat content is way different than a rodent. I like the idea of using them to feed skinny rescue animals and recently laid females.

[Mikoh4792]

The fat content for the pure rabbit links are about 5% less fat than rats and mice. They are also producing venison/chicken links as well... I'm not sure if they will start doing all chicken in the near future but I would guess so. But even with the higher fat content of the other combinations over adult rodents, the smaller sizes will contain less fat and more protein compared to mice or rat pinks....which is something to consider for hatchling or baby snakes. Afterall, pinks are basically just bags of fat.

I seriously recommend just listening to the podcast and hear out their reasoning for this product. I think they are heading in the right direction.

[kwhitlock]

The podcast is insanely informative and a great listen. If they can do as they were saying with making pinkie size, this product will change the game. I'm strongly debating on changing my milk snake to these. If I had a tegu or monitor I would be using these all the time. Skinks as well

[serpentgirl123]

I am just curious if the nutritional numbers that Repti-link have are accurate? I looked over the nutrient composition article on Rodentpro's site and compared that of Repti-link's for rats and mice and numbers are quite different (in some cases 2-3x lower).


Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals (http://www.rodentpro.com/qpage_articles_03.asp)

[Tiny Boidae]

For non-processed, vertebrate prey, you would have completely different numbers in comparison to something like Repti-Links. It's like comparing chicken breasts to chicken nuggets, they may essentially come from the same source, but nutritionally speaking one's vastly different than the other. I doubt that the nutritional content on the Repti-Links page is wrong (since the numbers don't seem all that healthy in the first place. Usually when you lie, you lie to make your product seem better).

I mean, I'm all for people trying this and seeing how snakes react to it, but I don't see me switching from whole prey. A snake eats whole, unprocessed prey in the wild, and seeing as they are not yet domnesticated, switching their diet around like that might adversely affect their health. Besides, there's nothing wrong with buying frozen mice for your snakes, and if it ain't broke then don't try and fix it.

[serpentgirl123]

Thank you for the clarification Tiny Boidae, I really appreciate it :)

Personally I have no reason to change my snakes diet any time soon. I will stick to mice and rats.

But I am curious to see the outcome if others are willing to do that experiment and see the long term results/effects of such a diet.

[Mikoh4792]

The podcast is insanely informative and a great listen. If they can do as they were saying with making pinkie size, this product will change the game. I'm strongly debating on changing my milk snake to these. If I had a tegu or monitor I would be using these all the time. Skinks as well

They actually just came out with the smaller sized links. I ordered some for my hatchlings(3g sized links)

[Mikoh4792]

For non-processed, vertebrate prey, you would have completely different numbers in comparison to something like Repti-Links. It's like comparing chicken breasts to chicken nuggets, they may essentially come from the same source, but nutritionally speaking one's vastly different than the other. I doubt that the nutritional content on the Repti-Links page is wrong (since the numbers don't seem all that healthy in the first place. Usually when you lie, you lie to make your product seem better).

I mean, I'm all for people trying this and seeing how snakes react to it, but I don't see me switching from whole prey. A snake eats whole, unprocessed prey in the wild, and seeing as they are not yet domnesticated, switching their diet around like that might adversely affect their health. Besides, there's nothing wrong with buying frozen mice for your snakes, and if it ain't broke then don't try and fix it.

These links are whole prey. The only things excluded are hair, and most of the feces/urine. All these links are, as mentioned in the OP are whole animals ground up and stuffed into collagen/protein casings.

[Tiny Boidae]

If it's the exact same thing, then why are the numbers so different? I love the idea of trying to improve a reptile's diet, don't get me wrong, but I think this is a step in the wrong direction. I mean McDonalds chicken nuggets are basically the same thing, just an entire chicken ground up into charismatic little golden patties, but then why are they so unhealthy? I consulted an article for this. (The Truth About Processed Meats by Dr. Loren Cordain | The Paleo Diet : The Paleo Diet? (http://thepaleodiet.com/the-truth-about-processed-meats/))

"Nevertheless, my initial approach would be to apply the evolutionary template which clearly indicates our hunter gatherer ancestors would have never consumed processed, cured or canned meats. Their staples were the fresh meats, flesh and organs of wild animals along with gathered wild plant foods."

That's my first tally against Repti-Links ; they aren't natural. There's nothing natural about a snake eating a sausage link made on a conveyor belt in some factory somewhere. They're not built for the additives to boost the nutritional content (which, by the way, are dangerously high to be healthy), and to help keep it fresh and free of bugs. I mean ever seen that IAMS cat commerical?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_wxYfWXqw
They're a hunter, give them what they're born to eat. Meow!

"We all know that fresh, raw meats rapidly spoil and can cause illness, gastric distress and diarrhea if left unrefrigerated at room temperatures for long periods. So this fact alone should tip you off to potential health hazards associated with consumption of processed meats, which typically don’t spoil at room temperatures because of their chemical additives... If the chemicals in these meats are “bad” for bacteria, they just might be “bad” for our body’s cells as well."

Second tally. Do you know how meats can be processed like this without going bad? With additives as this author is saying. In order for a meat to be processed, it has to have an additive of some sort so that it doesn't go bad while it's being made. These additives can be incredibly harmful to your health in the long run, and I can only imagine what they'd do to a snake. A snake should not eat processed meat for this reason alone, but there's plenty others.

"Further, consumption of cooked, canned and cured meats causes high levels of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) to accumulate in the bloodstream. As AGEs build up in higher and higher concentrations in the blood they increase the risk for heart disease, cancer and inflammation, a process that underlies virtually all chronic disease. If these events weren’t enough to make you shy away from eating these adulterated meats, they are also concentrated sources of oxidized cholesterol, a potent compound known to promote artery clogging or atherosclerosis."

I'll leave this one up for interpretation...

"One of the original reasons scientists advised us to limit consumption of processed meats was because of their high concentration of nitrites and nitrates. These chemicals are added to salami, lunch meats, bacon, sausages and other processed meats because they inhibit bacteria which cause food borne illnesses while also enhancing the color and flavor of processed meats. Many early scientific studies examining dietary nitrites and nitrates suggested that the metabolism of these compounds in our bodies produced potent cancer causing chemical called nitrosamines. Hence, consumers were advised not to eat processed meats containing nitrites or nitrates. This viewpoint has been challenged in the past decade by a number of researchers who suggest that dietary nitrites and nitrates are actually protective against cancer, heart disease and other illnesses. In the body, these compounds are metabolized to nitric oxide, a chemical which promotes cardiovascular health and has many other therapeutic effects."

All in all, processed foods in general are bad for you, and especially meat. And frankly, if dieticians are advising me not to eat a lot of something, why would I feed it to my snake?

[Mikoh4792]

I'm confused. There are no additives in these links, nor are they cured. The only processing done is grinding. That's it. The animals are sourced from a local organic farm. After grinding, the owners of the business(It's a small business, not a huge factory mass producing links) personally remove the fecal matter and hair, and then stuff them directly into collagen/protein casings. Then they are vacuum sealed and frozen.

Most of these preconceived notions can be dispelled if you just listen to the podcast, or personally speak to the owners who would be more than willing to inform you about what these really are.

[MDT]

i think my experience has been the kcal available to the animal is greater per gram of food...thus less energy expenditure in digestion and more "usable" product. i find i am feeding less frequently and have a steady growth rate in my carpets. my retics are at the point where they are too big for the the 100 gm links, so...back to rats.

Tiny boidae.....to my knowledge (after speaking extensively with the owner), these are not "preserved" meats...where did you get that info?

i get what you're saying about the nitrates, etc used in meat preservation...but i think (i could be wrong) you're mis-informed here. if you'll look at the web site, it states "no preservatives". let me know if you have info to the contrary.

i could talk about bacteria for days, but suffice it to say, reptiles eat some nasty a$$ stuff. the gut bacteria of whole prey rodents would pose a similar problem that you raise concern about. gastric HCl and other enzymes make short work of those potential pathogens, and likewise would do the same for a ground product.

[prairiepanda]

If it's the exact same thing, then why are the numbers so different?

Because the Repti-links aren't made of rats/mice, which is what they're being compared to. If they were made of rats/mice, then the numbers would be very close to the same(might be some differences due to the removal of intestinal contents, but that varies quite a lot due to differences in feeder diets anyway)

[jarich]

Ya, I think comparing these to chicken nuggets is a pretty bad analogy. These guys are pretty knowledgable and seem to have come up with a decent product. The only concerns I see are A) They do not include the digestive tract for obvious reasons. However, this is where a great deal of nutrition actually comes from. B) For nearly all reptiles, doubling the amount of fat is not a good thing. Most captive reptiles are lazy and already overfed, doubling the amount of fat does not seem like a good thing nutritionally. C) Most reptiles also get the majority of their water intake from food. The moisture content of these does not seem as high. Perhaps not a problem, but it is a little concerning if your reptile does not readily drink from its water dish.

Other than that I think it looks like a decent product.

[Mikoh4792]

Jarich these do contain the digestive tract, just not all the feces that usually come with it in rats and mice. All of the organs are included.

[jarich]

Unless Im mistaken, I remembered them saying that all organs except the intestines were included. They cant include the intestines because of bacterial infection.

[Mikoh4792]

Unless Im mistaken, I remembered them saying that all organs except the intestines were included. They cant include the intestines because of bacterial infection.

I have confirmed with them just now that they only take out the feces, but still leave in the intestines.

[MDT]

You guys realize that only herpers could get away with this conversation, right? :D

[Mikoh4792]

Haha so true!

[jarich]

So they wash the intestines and then re add them?

[Mikoh4792]

So they wash the intestines and then re add them?

I don't know the specifics, but you can contact Nick or Tyler Helble via facebook or their website.

[reptiledude987]

So they wash the intestines and then re add them?

They would have to. I really dont see it as being much than sausages from the supermarket. They certain clean the pig crap out of the ones for us lol.

[bigsnakegirl785]

As long as this doesn't push out whole prey, all power to whoever chooses to feed this to their animals. I'd rather stick to whole prey, it's plenty good enough to provide everything my snakes need.

If I ever own a tegu or a monitor, I may invest in a stock of this stuff for variety, though.

[Mikoh4792]

As long as this doesn't push out whole prey, all power to whoever chooses to feed this to their animals. I'd rather stick to whole prey, it's plenty good enough to provide everything my snakes need.

If I ever own a tegu or a monitor, I may invest in a stock of this stuff for variety, though.

This is whole prey. Whole chicken, venison, and rabbit.

[serpentgirl123]

I agree with bigsnakegirl785 and some of the others,

I personally just don't feel comfortable feeding my animals this product until a bit more research is done by those not affiliated with Repti-Link (and if it has, I apologize). I understand the appeal and reasoning to have such a product in the market and more power to those that are using it or willing to give it a try. But for me personally, this is not something I would give my animals, at least not right now.

I also don't see a need to switch since mice, rats, asf's, chicks, and rabbits are so readily available and rather inexpensive, similar (if not the same) to what my animals would be eating in the wild (I don't see a kingsnake or hognose going after deer), used by many many breeders, hobbyist, zoos etc with great success for a long, long time, and my animals are healthy, strong, and easily and readily taking these prey items without any adverse effects.

I also wonder that with most frozen meat (ground or not), it isn’t recommended to re-freeze thawed meat and I suspect the same is true here, probably more so since there are no preservatives or anything. I can see cost becoming an issue for me if my snake refused to eat for whatever reason and out of serious safety concern I would 99% of the time chuck the link away. I guess I feel a bit “safer” putting a previously thawed mouse/rat back ONCE but not these links.

I guess I also don’t see how a little roughage or microbes from whole prey (those not put in a grinder and pre-washed) is a bad thing. It might be quite beneficial for a healthy digestive and immune system--add a little “challenge” to the body; and since most of the rodent vendors are using some sort of formulated, well balanced, and tested rodent food, their rodents are quite healthy.

[bigsnakegirl785]

This is whole prey. Whole chicken, venison, and rabbit.

I mean actual whole prey - prey that is in its whole form. This may contain most of the animal grinded up into a sausage form, but it's not whole prey. Whole prey is in its original form, with everything included like fur and intestinal contents.

I can control whole prey, when I am able to breed again. I just don't see a need to fix what isn't broken.

[Mikoh4792]

I agree with bigsnakegirl785 and some of the others,

I personally just don't feel comfortable feeding my animals this product until a bit more research is done by those not affiliated with Repti-Link (and if it has, I apologize). I understand the appeal and reasoning to have such a product in the market and more power to those that are using it or willing to give it a try. But for me personally, this is not something I would give my animals, at least not right now.

These have not been used commercially for a significant amount of time, though the owners have been using these for several years now in their own collection. They claim that their animals on these links, produce healthier clutches with higher hatch rates and better calcification in the eggs, if that means anything for health.

But I understand what you mean. There has been lots of skepticism towards this product from other places... but also a lot of good feedback from those who do use these. We will need to wait several years until most people become convinced that this can be an alternative, or even better than our mostly rodent diet for snakes.


I guess I also don’t see how a little roughage or microbes from whole prey (those not put in a grinder and pre-washed) is a bad thing. It might be quite beneficial for a healthy digestive and immune system--add a little “challenge” to the body; and since most of the rodent vendors are using some sort of formulated, well balanced, and tested rodent food, their rodents are quite healthy.

They do leave a little bit in. They just take "most" of it out because they don't want a significant part of the weight/mass of the links to be fecal matter. Imagine leaving in all the feces from a deer LOL.

Whole prey is in its original form, with everything included like fur and intestinal contents.

They do leave in the intestinal contents, but do exclude the fur. But if that's what you mean by whole prey then yes, these are not animals left in their original form. This allows smaller meals appropriately sized for hatchling snakes that are higher in protein and calcium, and lower in fat than rodent pinks.

[that1guy]

This is whole prey. Whole chicken, venison, and rabbit.

This isn't whole prey, it is processed meat. Whole prey is referring to an entire animal that is swallowed whole. With feeding your snake a whole prey animal you know exactly what they are getting, a whole rat, rabbit, chicken. Repti-links is ground up meat, you can take their word for what is in it, but truth is you don't know what your snake is getting with each link.

[Mikoh4792]

Repti-links is ground up meat, you can take their word for what is in it, but truth is you don't know what your snake is getting with each link.

That's true. Similar things can be said for other products like repashys, or fish food..etc. I guess it comes down to whether or not you trust the business. I personally do, and totally understand if other's may be skeptical. I did post this thread expecting some skepticism and backlash.

[MDT]

It's all about biochemistry, nutrition, energy utilization vs expenditure. The product is solid. If you want to stay w rats/mice....cool. But don't spout misinformed data.

Whole prey, higher protein per gram, feed less often for same weight gain, better utilization of product per gram, reduced fecal load.

And, no...I have zero financial interest in company.

[Mikoh4792]

It's all about biochemistry, nutrition, energy utilization vs expenditure. The product is solid. If you want to stay w rats/mice....cool. But don't spout misinformed data.

Whole prey, higher protein per gram, feed less often for same weight gain, better utilization of product per gram, reduced fecal load.

And, no...I have zero financial interest in company.

Not mention, less messier stools! haha