Live Plants = Less ventilation?

[Tiny Boidae]

So, I'm brainstorming and planning and ordering the supplies for my Beauty's cage (although it won't be assembled until I move, I just like to have everything now as it spreads out my money spending), and I was thinking about getting some hardy plants that it PROBABLY won't smother (like some pothos, a fern or two... still not sure exactly what yet), and it got me thinking. If I plant the cage with live plants, will I need as many, if any, ventilation holes as the plants produce oxygen for the snake, and the snake produces carbon dioxide for the plants. It sounds a little naive to me, but I'm just curious if this is logical thinking.

[trailblazer295]

I could easily be wrong but I still prefer to have the ventilation and air holes. Without air flow air will be stagnant. Personally I'd rather have the air flow and work around the heating and humidity challenges it creates vs a sealed box. I don't know the ratio of plants it takes to produce sufficient oxygen for a snake/lizard.

[Tiny Boidae]

Trailblazer295-

I was actually worried about the snake not making enough carbon dioxide for the plants, but it was just a weird thought of mine. It's not too difficult to maintain heat and humidity if you balance heat and ventilation (or at least it's not with my water dragons). I'll still have ventilation holes in case those plants don't do their jobs, but it was just me over thinking things.

[Minkness]

Eh...I'd still say put air holes. No reason not to really, even if they are just tiny holes.

[Tiny Boidae]

Alright Mink, it isn't a problem. Again, I was just being nosy ^.^

I don't want to make another thread for this since I just posted this one, so I've got another question to run by you. I'm trying to figure out the drainage layer for the plants, and the sealant used for long-term submersion gets pretty pricey (like $80 of Pond Armor for what I need), and I was thinking about using tiles and siliconing them together to separate my water from my wood. Thoughts on this? I can get tile pretty cheap (like $1 a pop) and I'd think those used for bathrooms and such would be pretty water-proof, but I'm no carpenter in any aspect so I have no idea.

[Minkness]

Most of the water damage probably comes from general humidity. So sealing all of the interior wood would be a good idea, but the tile idea sounds nifty =)

[Tiny Boidae]

Minkness-

Yeah but that's going to be exposed to actual, liquid water for extended periods of time, so it's going to need some stronger stuff. Like I used Pond Armor for my water dragon paludarium at someone's reccomendation, but it cost me more than the cage itself and I guess I'm still feeling the sting from that. I'm definitely going to seal the entire enclosure, but I thought the tile would be not only cheaper, but also easier to clean and such. Maybe even a little more durable?

[Minkness]

So just tile the whole enclosure? That would get heavy o.o

[Tiny Boidae]

Oops, don't think I made that clear enough. I'm just tiling the bottom. For the sides and top I'm not sure what I'll use yet as far as sealing goes, but only the bottom is getting tiled.

[Roman]

With a large colubrid like a Taiwan beauty snake (Orthriophis taeniurus friesei) I wouldn’t use ferns. They are too delicate to withstand such a large snake for long, at least when I had one in my tiger ratsnake (Spilotes pullatus) enclosure it did not last more than a month.

Some information about plants -- > http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/natural-vivaria-plant-forum/103570-plants-terrariums.html

I would leave the plants in their pot, so you don’t have any trouble with water in your wood enclosure. Hide them behind some structures like cork tubes or branches. It makes it also easier to replace the plants, it might be a good idea to have two sets of plants, one inside the enclosure and one as a kind of reserve and exchange them as needed, so any plant might get a chance to recover.

You will still need the ventilation holes, I don’t think that your plants will be able to generate enough oxygen for your snake, especially as they need light for photosynthesis and shut down during the night.


Roman

[Tiny Boidae]

Roman-

Thanks for your help on this thread too :)

Yeah, for the majority of the plants in my water dragon enclosure (most of which are fakes, the girls tear them to pieces pretty quick when they were all real), I have the original plant growing under the stand. Whenever I need a new plant, I usually either take one of the ones that I've already propagated and grown, or I just give it a quick snippy snip depending on the species.

Well that's disappointing news about the fern for sure, I was really looking forward to that beauty, but I'm not going to waste my money on a lost cause like that. I was thinking the golden pothos would be nice because (and I think that is this plant) it can mat up on the floor of the terrarium and that might be a nice place for the snake to hide in.

My original plan consisted of having the bugs and plants in there for at least a month before I introduce the snake, so that they have a chance to sink their roots in before all heck breaks loose. I can definitely just keep them in their pots though, although will the bugs still be able to get into the pot to break down the waste for the plants? Or will they kinda just be on their own for that?

[Roman]

The bugs will break down the waste where ever it is, but your plants will eventually cover more or less the whole ground of the enclosure and the tendrils of the pothos will grow their own roots, so they will get their nutrition from there.


Roman

[Tiny Boidae]

The pothos is one of the plants that my dragons felt content to tear up pretty quickly (they were draped against the back wall of the enclosure, and they used it as a climbing opportunity so it got pretty battered up). Mei is always my worst enemy when it comes to maintaining live plants in that enclosure, as that spaz will go on mini-rampages when she gets spooked by my cat, or a car alarm, or anything really. Xiu might sit on them on occasion, or attempt to climb up the vining plants, but when my newest potted friend gets torn up, I always know who to thank for that :/

Story aside, I'm not too worried about being able to see the ground after a little while. It'll probably make maintance even more of a pain, but I'm not too partial towards being able to see soil. Kinda looks nicer when it's a bit overgrown in my opinion, and if it ever gets to where I can't handle it then I can always trim it back.

[Tiny Boidae]

Ah, one more question. I got to thinking of what's a durable plant that doesn't mind a lot of light and moisture, and can probably provide some peace of mind to the snake when it's out in the open. What about a grass of sort? I've never heard of anyone putting grass of all things in their enclosure, but I don't really see a problem with it. If I can drive my car onto it on occasion without any problem, I don't see why it can't hold up to my snake. Plus it'll be able to withstand a bunch of temperatures, light conditons, and with a bit of care it'll grow up to a nice length of tall grass. Granted it's not going to be as condensed or short as a lawn's, but it's a thought.

[toddnbecka]

I use silk plants in my enclosures. Easy to place just about anywhere, don't require light or water, and just rinse in ther sink to clean snake poop off, lol.

[Tiny Boidae]

Oh I'm going to use fake plants for sure, but I also wanted to throw some real plants in as well. I like the look and they help absorb some of the feces and add a little bit of humidity into the air. I mean I'll experiment with them, see what would be a good idea to keep in there and what wouldn't, but most of the plants will be fake.

[reptiledude987]

Im also in the process of experimenting with different plant options. Its difficult to find anythin reptile safe thats durable for larger active snakes. My vines are easy because they dont do damage to even the most delicate of plants. however my king and beakies are a whole other story. Im trying different options and if I have success with something Ill be sure to post it. Then theres my carpets which I know will never get a live plant because none of them will stand a chance with those monsters.

[Tiny Boidae]

As a general rule, I'm just going with any plant that's been able to withstand my girls, because if they can hold up to them, then a rat snake won't be an issue for it... Which for the most part is just moss on the floor of their terrarium XD

I'm going to try and plant some lucky bamboo in there (the kind that swirls at the top) and cut the top off about a foot below the lid (they stop growing taller if you cut the tops. They are poisonous to ingest though, which is why I haven't tried it with the girls, but there's no sap or thorns that'll do any damage to the snake). I'll have a couple growing together and hope they stay standing.

I might also/instead do a small ficus, and plant it outside in my girls' outdoor enclosure if it ever grew too tall (they need it too. It's just a bunch of wooden boxes and rope out there, nothing natural for them to climb). I'm really undecided on the stocking of plants, and I probably will be until the last second. I have the look I want in my head, but finding the plants that'll match it is a whole other ball game. I might actually post a rough sketch to see if anyone can help, that is if you can withstand my grotesque art skills :p

I don't think the problem with the rat will be it trampling stuff rather than it just knocking it over trying to climb it (and correct me if I'm wrong, because I have no idea). I mean they don't have a huge amount of girth or weight to em, they just are zippy do-dahing all over the place and knocking stuff around and maybe crushing some of the more fragile species reserved for frogs and geckos, but I don't see my pothos losing more than a couple leaves with that snake.

[lady_bug87]

I didn't read all the replies so sorry if it's repetitive. Live plants add to ambient humidity so you'll need holes for air exchange. Start with a few and add more if you need to

[Tiny Boidae]

Yup, I'm definitely going to add some ventilation. I'm also thinking of installing some computer fans too that'll kinda simulate wind and such. I'm going overboard with this cage, but I like to give my animals a lot of "toys" to experiment with... Or I'm just bad with money. I think a combination of the two.

[lady_bug87]

Make sure they can't get stuck in the fan or nicked by the blades. I don't think its 100% necessary but hey it's your party

[Tiny Boidae]

Yeah, I was going to use screen to separate it. That's an escape waiting to happen without it.

I just like to give my animals something to do, and especially them since they're a more intelligent and curious species. He/she probably never felt wind before, so I'd love to give it something close to the experience :)

[jarich]

Grass would be a great one, especially if you are looking at having it without the animal for the first month. That will give it time to root and become well entrenched before the animal comes in.

I would also recommend planting the plants directly in the soil too, if its at all possible. It may lead to some plant death, but the addition to the nitrogen cycle is more important in my opinion. And you just dont get that if you dont have the roots in the soil itself.

[Tiny Boidae]

I'm going to build it before I get the beauty, but the snake is still going to be in a tub for a little bit so I can keep a close eye on it for health problems and allow all of the life in the cage with it to get well adjusted, as well as to make sure everything is working properly. I don't think this is a species that'll be intimidated in a large cage at a young age, so as soon as the plants are good and I'm sure that the animal won't need medication, I'll plop her right into the cage.

I'll consider planting it directly into the soil. I really was getting bugs for the plants benefit, and all of the live plants in my girls cage (except some hanging vines that are planted into the rock wall) are planted directly into the substrate so I'll consider it for the rat snake too.

[jjhill001]

You could use pic boards.

[jjhill001]

Pvc* sorry about that. Edit isn't working on my tablet right now.

[Georgia]

Grass or sod is a good option. I'm looking into that myself.

[Andy_G]

Isn't grass extremely difficult to grow in a vivarium? I have heard that but I haven't put any in my vivs.