Interested in a hog as a possible first snake....

[Humble308]

Hey guys/gals,

New to the forum, new to snake keeping and looking for a little guidance on breeds. I've been reading till my eyes are throbbing and I've got it about narrowed down to the snake I'd like to start off with.

I'm considering a western hognose, a ball python or possibly a spotted python. The ball would be safe aside from feeding issues, the spotteds have been said to eat better and aren't so critical with humidity. And the hog nose just sounds like a little rascal which I think is right up my alley. I have also considered corns, house snakes, and kings none of which really thrill me like the others.

I know a lot of yall own/breed outside of the hogs...I'm interested if there is a snake or two I've missed in my list? I'm interested in animals with a bit of character that are hardy enough to handle a mistake or two as I dwelve into this new hobby. I'm not particularly interested in the morphs and paint jobs (though I think it's quiet cool)...would prefer just a well balanced critter. I understand that hogs are rear fanged with toxic saliva, which is ok with me.:D

Any suggestions or insight would be much appreciated. All the best.

Semper Fi,
Derek

[millertime89]

http://i.imgur.com/l9FS3jp.jpg

[Humble308]

Thanks! Looking forward to learning as much as I can.

[Tiny Boidae]

Hoggies are amazing little critters. I took care of one for my friend this summer, and I was almost tempted to just keep him for myself. A lot of personality there and who could resist that snout!

Another you might like are Kenyan sand boas (to which I'm slightly biased towards). Kinda like the hognose in the respect that you'll never see it above the substrate, but beautiful creatures with a lot of personality. I have five, and they're all very alert when being handled, and none are content to just sit still. The males are a bit smaller than the hognose, and the females a bit bigger, but both are pretty managable. I have five (none of which I breed) and they're all great to be around.

[Minkness]

In my opinion, hoggies are one of the best starters! Stay small, funny personalities, they don't hide all the time, mine have been fantastic feeders, they don't stress when you handle them. Their care is simple and straightforward, and they look sooooo cute with their little noses and angry faces! Lol.

I have 5 and out of all my snakes (MBK and 2 BPs) they have quickly become my favorite snake! Ironically, I didn't set my heart on one and just kinda fell into all of mine. 4 are resues and 1 was just so cheap I couldn't pass him up when at a Repticon. They have seriously surprised me and I am so happy I found them. =)

[Humble308]

Thanks guys! Tiny I was looking at the sand boas as well consequently enough. Seems to be another favorite.

Minkness, you sound like you really fell in love with your hogs! How do they compare behaviorally to your king snake?

Do yall have a favorite breeder for these hogs. I looked at exteme hogs however his prices are well out of my budget for a pet, also looked at BHB and LLL reptiles I believe. Prices seemed to be around $100-150 for a normal colored hoggie. I don't know why they're not more popular, they're absolutely fascinating to me right now.

[Minkness]

I got my 1st one for 40$ at repticon from a guy that bred hogs, boas, and balls. He only had 3 'normals' available and everything else he had were 500$ morphs. The normals were 40$ (red phase normal) 60$ (green phase normal) and 70$ (yellow phase normal) all were male. I may have just gotten lucky at the con, but that's also why I snatched it up lol. You can also look on local Craigslist. That's where my other 4 cane from. I do warn you though, if you choose that route, have an exotics vet on stand by. Never know what you may end up with. 3 of my 4 had respiratory issues, one of which had a serious case of pneumonia. I got a bp from the same person who had badly retained shed and mites as well. Took a little over a month, but everyone is doing really well. Have some lingering breathing issues, but they are on the mend for sure. =)

As for the personality in comparison to my MBK....night and day. MBK (Calypso) stays hidden most of the time, never wants to come out of her tub, is squirmy when being held, but packs a SERIOUS punch when feeding. The hogs are a bit varried in personality. But I only have 1 kingsnake to go off of and 5 hogs lol. I'll do little paragraphs for each.

Horus (red phase male from repticon) he spends alot of time in the back of his tank but comes out from time to time. Likes to 'spy' on me. Easy feeder with a rather gentle response but doesn't turn a meal down. Super chill when being handled.

Ra (extreme red male) hides most of the time but when he's out he's very active and likes to climb. Medium activity when being handled, and a more shy eater. Has taken all but 1 meal since I've had him but that was the week he gave me a surprise shed. Hisses if startled, but is otherwise fine.

Osirus (high yellow conda male) is about 50/50 hiding and out lounging in his tank. Anothwr one who has never turned down a meal. Even while in full, deep blue and super sick and recieving injections every 3 days. (He was the one with pneumonia the vet wasn't sure he'd make it but other than some light rasping, he's made an almost full recovery, proving how hardy these guys really are). He is also suuuuper chill when being handled. Has hissed once when I was offering a second helping. I think he was still in an 'agressive' feeding response. Slams his meals down though.

Emma (yellow/green phase normal female) is my largest and awesome. She is a good eater, but only when hungry. She must watch her waist line lol. She is VERY active in her tank, super easy to handle but squormy for the firat 10-15 mins then chills waaay out. Doesn't seem to stress at all and is easily handled by strangers and accpets being touched by strangers and children. (She is the only one I have really had out around strangers in a pet store). Litterally ALWAYS out when in her tank. She refuses to hide and seems to enjoy sprawling out and watching whatever is going on in my room. Not that she 'greets' me, but she usually comes to the front of her tank whenever I enter my room or go near her tank. Love her personality the best to be honest. Never hissed, even when startled, not headshy at all, and just all around awesome.

Miss Hiss (albino female) is not for the faint of heart. She will bully a person if they let her. Deffensive and exibits all the pstures. Hooding up, rattle snake, musking, the works. She is EXTREMELY hyper active. I get her out the most as it seems the more she's out and about the more calm and easy to handle she is. I will say this though. Even with all the posing of being s big bad snake, she has never once bit me. She was a bit slow to get feedi g when I got her, but once started, she hasn't missed a meal. I admit to loving her attitude, but she is an individual and I respect that about her and give her what I can to keep her happy...ALOT of activity and handling. Not that she enjoys being handled, but it gets her to wear herself out a bit.

Over all, awesome snakes any way you cut it. Active in or out of the enclosure, easily handled, but not a 'lap snake'.

The BPs I have are vastly different as well. Female ivory is curious, personable, voracious feeder, and sweet as sugar. Male lesserbee is my grumpy man. He decides when and what he will eat, hisses any time I open his enclosure, but once out is a perfectly handlable snake. He is usually always hidibg (though has been more active and out this past week) and he does stress too easily.

I may have gone into more detail than you wanted, but I hope this helps. =)

[Tiny Boidae]

Humble308-

Admittedly, I don't own a hoggie (yet) but I see them all the time at expos. You can usually bargain down breeders to a lower price, and see the animal in person. I've gotten most of my herps from expos, and the experience in and of itself is amazing :D

You can look at repticon's site for locations and dates, although if you're like me and repticon doesn't come to your state, then you can Google for reptile shows in your state and there will usually be something.

[Humble308]

Minkness,
Awesome post! Thanks for sharing all your hoggies, they certainly are some beautiful critters. Interesting that they all have such varying personalities. It's quickly becoming clear that I maaaaaaay end up with more than one snake hahaha. Is having a snake treated for respiratory issues an expensive endeavor?

Tiny, I've been considering one of the shows around here. Would be awesome just to see some of these guys in person.

[AndrewM1217]

My personal vote is for the Spotted Python! I've had mine for about a year now and he's a great first snake in my opinion. Never struck at me, never missed a feed, never had a bed shed. No problems at all so far. Also, the humidity for them is very easy to keep, and they don't seem to be too picky when it comes to exact levels. Of course you should strive to maintain the proper levels of humidity, but to me it seems they are a little less finnicky than ball pythons. Plus I personally like their slender shape, and I'm not sure if this is true of all Spotteds, but mine loves to climb rather than staying on the bottom of the enclosure. He's out exploring almost every day from about 7pm to 1am or so.

[Minkness]

I honestly LOVE my snakes. Each as an individual and as a whole. Getting to know each one has been fun and rewarding, and because I am a rather gands on pwrson, having so many helps me not over handle any one in particular (except miss hiss who seems to benifit from aloooot of handling).

Having a snake treated can definitely be expensive when done 100% correctly by an exotocs vet. You 'should' have a culture done to Isolate the exact type of issue and treat accordingly. However, not all vets do that, and in fact, not a single one will where I live. Also, because there is no set cost for exotics, vets will have VASTLY different costs. I called around for 3 days asking for prices and what they did to determin an RI. I was qoated as much as 120$ for just the office visit, to as little as 20$, and was never given a straight answer about culteres or not. So, I found a place that had a cheaper office visit, was close to home, and actually have their own lab (not all do so you may want to ask that as well as things will be cheaper and quicker in the long run). For the office visit and a whole vial of the medication and as many steril needles/syringes as I needed for 3 snakes, it was just under 100$. When I had one who got an RI that was my fault (BP that got too cool and I didn't have the humidity right) it was about 80$ and they gave me prefilled syringes, taught me how to give the injections, and then wven let me bring him in when I was still too nervous to do them myself at no extra charge! I kinda wish I could get cultures, but either I'm lucky, or my vet is just THAT good, but all symptions have been either 100% gone or WAAAAY better in just over a week. (Injections every 3 days for 3 or 4 injections). The little hoggie I have that had the serious pneumonia was full on open mouthed breathing and part of his mouth was kind of stuck open just a little bit for some reason. He's still on the mend, but being as he was so bad and even the vet wasnt sure we caught it in time, I'm very happy with the result. He's now only slightly raspy and will most likely be T 100% in another week or two.=)

Again, I get wordy, but I hope this helps lol

My advice, call around and ask questions and go with a vet you are comfortable with. Not all vets are equal, so use your best judgement.

[Humble308]

Thanks again guys. Thats some fantastic info. Andrew I'll keep checking out the spotteds as well. I think I need to get myself to one of these reptile shows.

Minkness, thanks for the vet tips. That treatment price doesn't sound unreasonable at all. It's great to see all your babies make a full recovery!

[Minkness]

Any time! And if you have any other questions let me know. In no wxpert, but I do love helping people get just as addicted as I am lol

[Wingbeats]

My original plan for a first snake was either a spotted python or an axanthic ball python C:

....I ended up with a rainbow boa after I fell in love at a reptile store....I wouldn't really recommend a rainbow boa as a first due to high humidity requirements, but I do love her to pieces (and I did make a tub with keeps the humidity perfectly, yay!)

I'm just saying, you never know what your heart tells you when you start visiting shows/stores and seeing snakes in person :) and yesss do research. Research until your brain cries! :D

[Minkness]

I'm just saying, you never know what your heart tells you when you start visiting shows/stores and seeing snakes in person :) and yesss do research. Research until your brain cries! :D

So true! Totally never wanted a BP but fell for a good salesman at a show and fell in love now have 2 and want mooooore lol. (I always want more though. It's an issue lol)

[prairiepanda]

If you like the bit of attitude and bluffing that hoggies are known for, you might also be interested in some Pituophis species(gophers, pines, bulls). They come in a variety of colours, shapes, and sizes and can have very complex personalities. Care-wise, they are very easy beginner snakes. Just like hogs, though, every individual is different so it would be good to see them in person to find one you like.

Otherwise, out of your choices I'd go with a hog nose. Spotted pythons are great too, though. I'm not much into BPs as, even though they're adorable. Too sedentary and fussy for my liking.

[Humble308]

Thank you guys for all the suggestions. I think I've settled on the hog nose. I picked up a 10 gallon tank, aspen, and a lid with locks. Online I grabbed a UTH, thermostat, a hide, and some thermometers/hydrometer.

I keep reading the hoggies are diurnal and will need some light. I've got the heat covered with the pad, but I'm not quiet sure what I need to do for lighting. Some articles are saying UVB is good for reptiles, another is saying specifically the hognose doesn't need high levels of UVB. Are there bulbs at the hardware store I can use that won't hurt the snake? At this point I may be over analyzing it all, but I'd like to have all my bases covered before I throw an animal in there!

Fortunately there is a reptile show near me this weekend so I'll peruse for a hog there. If not I may consider the online option.

Thanks guys, any input as always is appreciated.

Just for yalls reference and some interesting reading are the articles I referenced above. Maybe yall can make more sense of it than me.

Lighting and heating for reptiles: They are not the same thing (http://www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html)

Western Hognose Snake - EverythingReptile.org (http://www.everythingreptile.org/western-hognose-snake.html)

[Minkness]

Most snakes don't actually need any special lighting. Mine just get the day/night cycle by me leaving my main room light on. You shouldn't need any special lights unless you just want something for viewing. =)

[Humble308]

Awesome! Looks like I'm all set up then. Yall wish me luck, maybe I'll bring a little one home Sunday night. Pictures of course