Spitting Cobra

[SnoopySnake]

Ok, so I was thinking. I know they're venomous, but could they also be considered poisonous, since the venom is usually sprayed at the face and absorbs into the eyes? Does their venom have an effect on the skin also? Would you get the same/similar symptoms if you dripped viper or other elapid venom into the eyes?

Here's a pic of one from my favorite zoo.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac317/SnoopySnake/DSCN5896_zps1gevikjl.jpg

And another cobra, can't remember what kind.
http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac317/SnoopySnake/DSCN5892_zpsln4s2did.jpg

[Jim Smith]

I believe the distinction between poisonous and venomous is the delivery system. If an animal has a system to actively deliver the toxin, then it is considered venomous. If it uses a passive system (i.e. secreted through the skin which then must be touched or parts of the animal consumed in some way) then it is considered poisonous. That is my understanding anyway.

[SnoopySnake]

Yeah, I was thinking since it is absorbed into the eyes that it could be a poison in that sense. I'm not sure if there are other symptoms (like when bitten) when it gets in your eyes. I'd like to get a hot keepers thoughts, like Jerry.

[Jim Smith]

Actually, since the spitting cobra uses an active delivery system, along with the fact that they are also very capably of delivering their venom through a bite, they are venomous snakes. Poison dart frogs, toads, some salamanders/newts and a few snakes are considered poisonous. There are a couple of snakes that are both poisonous and venomous and there are a couple of species of frogs that are now considered venomous since they use sharp boney projections on their heads and snouts to intentionally deliver the venom to the animals they're protecting themselves from.

[SSSSnakes]

Yeah, I was thinking since it is absorbed into the eyes that it could be a poison in that sense. I'm not sure if there are other symptoms (like when bitten) when it gets in your eyes. I'd like to get a hot keepers thoughts, like Jerry.

As I understand it, venomous creatures deliver the venom by injecting it into their victims. Were poisonous creatures must be consumed or absorbed into the system. Some snakes are poisonous, if consumed, but snakes in general are considered venomous. I have had spitting cobras spray my skin with venom, and it caused numbness in the skin. I have also had a rattlesnake strike at the screen lid and spray me with venom, and the same numbness occurred. I don't think that just because a spitting cobra sprays you with venom. makes it poisonous. That would be like saying just because you can jump a car or a motorcycle , that they can fly. There are some snakes that if you consume them are poisonous.

[SnoopySnake]

My thinking was more that it could be considered a poison because it's absorbed through the eyes and affects you that way. I know about the whole poisonous vs. venomous and about the few poisonous snakes, I was just specifically referring to these. I know they're venomous. I was just wondering if it could be considered a poison as well as venom because it kinda uses both delivery systems. Was just a random thought I had actually when looking at truly poisonous snakes haha

[FWK]

Technically all venoms are poisons, just specialized poisons that must be injected directly into tissues. The eyes are a special case, all sorts of substances that have no effect on skin can be painful or destructive to the eyes. I can't speak from first hand experience about Cobra venom, but I have had venom from most of the critters native to my neck of the woods on my hands on many occasions with no effect whatsoever. And to my knowledge no venom can be absorbed through the skin or even the mucous membranes of the digestive tract. Drinking snake venom is common in tribal medicine, particularly in parts of Africa. I can't find any references to the effects of snake venom other than Spitting Cobras (save one case involving Tiger Snake venom, still an elapid) on the eyes, but I'd imagine it's not something you'd want to experience yourself. I have heard first hand accounts of herpetologists that have been sprayed by Spitters and they say the pain is absolutely brutal, but with quick treatment their eyesight returned to normal in relatively short order.

Some case reports:

Nine cases of Spitters and one Tiger (http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Scott_Weinstein2/publication/42440395_Venom_ophthalmia_caused_by_venoms_of_spit ting_elapid_and_other_snakes_Report_of_ten_cases_w ith_review_of_epidemiology_clinical_features_patho physiology_and_management/links/546d3b630cf2193b94c580a1.pdf)
Chinese Spitter (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.483.4594&rep=rep1&type=pdf)
Indochinese Spitter (http://www.bimjonline.com/PDF/Bimj%202011%20Volume%207,%20Issue%206/332-5.pdf)

[ManSlaughter33]

Interesting thought Snoopy! I see where you're coming from but I agree its venomous :)
That made me think a little though!

[SSSSnakes]

Having been sprayed in the face, but not the eyes by both a spitting cobra and a rattlesnake, (when the rattlesnake struck at the screen and sprayed venom on my face), I can say from personal experience that my lips tingled both times. Also when I scrap the venom from my spitting cobras glass, the crystals cause my hand to feel numb for a little while. My friend who has also been spray in the face by a rattler striking the screen, said he had the same effect.

Here I quote from Reptiles Magazine, " One principle difference between venom and poison is that venomous animals actively deliver their toxic secretions , which then impair the target species. Poisonous animals rely on passive means of afflicting another organism. Poisonous reptiles produce secretions that are absorbed by a predator's epithelial lining (e.g. skin or gastrointestinal tracts), to an alteration in the physiology of the consuming organism. For example, in the wild poison dart frogs of the family Dendrobatdae excrete toxins from granular glands embedded in their skin, which are used as an anti-predation tool. Most poisonous reptiles deliver their toxin passively, either by being ingested or secreting a toxic substance that is absorbed by a predator."

So by this definition, a spitting cobra is actively delivering the venom to the eyes, making it venomous and poisonous.

[SnoopySnake]

Interesting. Could getting sprayed in the eyes by a spitting cobra kill someone if left untreated, or would you just have some pretty rough symptoms for a while?

[SSSSnakes]

Interesting. Could getting sprayed in the eyes by a spitting cobra kill someone if left untreated, or would you just have some pretty rough symptoms for a while?

It would not kill you, but could cause permanent blindness or damage to the eyes.

[Venomhunter]

the cornea is very fragile, venom from spitting cobra's is very corrosive and will just "eat" the cornea. Thereby , poison can be injected, absorbed and be ingested and have same results without medical treatment (or even with): death, venom has to be injected or come into an open wound.
I've read about some folks actually drinking venom diluted with water and yes they were fine.. It was very stupid nonetheless because they may build up a major allergy.