New Red Carpet Baby

[toddnbecka]

We went to the Hamburg show today. Saw some great snakes, unfortunately didn't have $1250 on hand for the one blackhead python there though. Was thinking to bring home a new colubrid, almost did bring home a grey banded king, but I couldn't pass up this one. Same seller I got my jungle/cross carpet from last year, again no info on the lineage because they get all their stock from other breeders. Unsexed, but I'm thinking the fact that there's a pink highlighter mark on the back likely indicates a female. I can't picture a breeder marking a male with pink ink. Very mellow disposition, no hint of attitude or defensive behavior. Since it was so warm (actually hot, no a/c in the building) at the show and I didn't run the a/c in the truck on the way home she was quite alert and active when I did handle her a bit. I offered a fuzzy mouse before I placed her tub into the enclosure, and she went for it almost as quickly as any of the established snakes. Here's a pic taken after she ate and the tub was placed on the warm end of the enclosure.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060693_zpshdscnwz4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060693_zpshdscnwz4.jpg.html)

[pinefamily]

Very nice looking python. I understand that unless you can be certain of lineage over there, a lot of carpets are crossed. Looking at the photo though, it does look like a coastal to me. If you could post a couple more photos, might be able to make a better call.

[toddnbecka]

I've seen a fair number of baby carpets at reptile shows, but seldom any red ones that weren't bredli's, and none like this one. I figure she(?) will grow into a very nice looking adult. Since she apparently found the floor of the tank a bit warm and moved up onto a stick, I was able to get some more pics w/out too much disturbance.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060695_zpsvezl0iv5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060695_zpsvezl0iv5.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060698_zpsyemhldo6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060698_zpsyemhldo6.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060699_zpsrz44gvjp.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060699_zpsrz44gvjp.jpg.html)

Tried to show the belly with these, not entirely successful though...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060704_zpsgfj3ppgc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060704_zpsgfj3ppgc.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060702_zpsldixmrvk.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060702_zpsldixmrvk.jpg.html)

[prairiepanda]

Very pretty! You'll have to keep posting pictures of her as she grows so we can see how her colours develop! Nice find.

[pinefamily]

The markings and coloration almost look like a roughie. If it is a coastal, it is either from a hypo pairing, or it's a cross.It will be interesting to see how her head shape develops.

[EL Ziggy]

Congrats on the new carpet TnB. Very nice addition. I'm looking forward to seeing more pics of her (?) as she grows and develops.

[toddnbecka]

I figure most likely a cross, but I'm not particularly concerned with a pedigree or paper trail back through the family tree. As long as the general disposition is good and the snake is healthy I'm satisfied. Now, if I was putting down $1k+ for a black head python it would be a different matter, but I spent more on gas for my truck on the 400 mile round trip drive to the show than I did on this wee python.
I like my first carpet so much I saw no reason not to pick up another, and out of all the thousands upon thousands of snakes at the show Becka and I both liked this one the best. She's said more than once I should have gotten another of those three jungle/cross babies last year, but I figured I'd try one for a start.
If they do turn out to be opposite sexes and breed in a few more years at least the offspring won't likely be nasty little biters like some, lol.

[pinefamily]

I can't believe a BHP sells for that much over there. Is that an average price, or was it something special? We paid $250 Australian for our BHP back in May, from one of the leading breeders here in Oz.

[PatrickT]

I can't believe a BHP sells for that much over there. Is that an average price, or was it something special? We paid $250 Australian for our BHP back in May, from one of the leading breeders here in Oz.

you get a bhp here in germany for 500€. So that would be roughly 600$.

[toddnbecka]

A quick google search turned up $750 for '13 males only from one retailer, $2250 for a 6' female (shipped), $2000 for a 3' male (+ shipping) and $5000 for an 8' pair (shipped) on Kingsnake classifieds. They haven't been exported from OZ very long, and there aren't many breeders on this side of the pond yet. It will be quite a few years before they'll be $250, demand is much higher than supply. The $5k pair would actually be a good investment for someone with enough experience to breed them successfully, but that's not me.

[pinefamily]

They are a great snake, very intelligent and placid.

[Wama]

Beauty.....

[Albert Clark]

A quick google search turned up $750 for '13 males only from one retailer, $2250 for a 6' female (shipped), $2000 for a 3' male (+ shipping) and $5000 for an 8' pair (shipped) on Kingsnake classifieds. They haven't been exported from OZ very long, and there aren't many breeders on this side of the pond yet. It will be quite a few years before they'll be $250, demand is much higher than supply. The $5k pair would actually be a good investment for someone with enough experience to breed them successfully, but that's not me.

I was vending at the show in Hamburg and I wish you would've come over to my table. I only had checkered garters though. But I unveiled my line of granite pastel garters and really enjoyed the show. In spite of the lack of a/c everyone there seemed to be having a great time. Super pickup on the carpet, she's lovely. I think it's a female too!:)

[jossh27]

you get a bhp here in germany for 500€. So that would be roughly 600$.

i was on a search not long ago and a guy here was going to sell a male for $3500 canada is horrible lol

[toddnbecka]

They are a great snake, very intelligent and placid.

How do they compare in that respect to woma pythons?
Saw some little bredli's at the show too, I think they were $250.

Becka asked me what we should name the new addition, and I replied "Joan Rivers", because she was always talking about the red carpet.
May actually go with Rivers, does anyone have a less punny suggestion?

[pinefamily]

How do they compare in that respect to woma pythons?

Depends who you talk to, lol. Seriously though, personally we have never owned a woma, but talking to a guy we know who breeds both, he told and showed us how placid the BHP's he had were. I did ask the same question at the time, and he said their temperament and intelligence were chalk and cheese.
Additionally, woma's are known to have a massive food response (except for Patrick's :D).
If you want to see some really nice BHP's here in Oz, search for Prestige Pythons website, or Sonneman's Snakes on Facebook.

[Albert Clark]

Doesn't Derek R. breed the bhp ? He is on Ssnakess right here?? Maybe Millertime knows for sure?

[Sylphie]

Yeah, Derek R is on ssnakess and is breeding them :D

And that carpet is really sweet!

[Derek Roddy]

A quick google search turned up $750 for '13 males only from one retailer, $2250 for a 6' female (shipped), $2000 for a 3' male (+ shipping) and $5000 for an 8' pair (shipped) on Kingsnake classifieds.

Hey there guys, Yes...in the states you can find BHPs anywhere from 800 to 2500 each. The reason for the variance of price is the same as any other species. The nicer stuff, lines of animals that have been refined, good strong lines that reproduce with no issues....are going to cost more.

It's like anything else, you get what you pay for.
Sure, if you only want a BHP just for the sake of having one...buy cheap, if you don't mind possibly losing the animals because inexperienced keepers don't know who to get them going correctly or they die at 5 years old because they were over fed on large rodents. (NEVER buy adult BHPs...they almost never reproduce for the keepers who bought them)

If you want to breed them and want the offspring to sell....you have to buy solid animals that your customers will want in the future and, that will cost you a little more. This goes for any species.


they haven't been exported from OZ very long, and there aren't many breeders on this side of the pond yet.

There is only one line of BHPs that were brought into the US legally in the mid 60s. There were a few single animals brought in by zoos throughout the 80s/90s but, All others were illegally brought in over the years.
That said, because of their price at the time (15,000 a pair) they were brought in greater numbers than most other Aussie species and because of that we have a fairly big genetic pool of them here....more so than other Aussie species.


It will be quite a few years before they'll be $250, demand is much higher than supply.

It will also be years because they do not breed consistently on our commercial rodent diet supply
(Something that the Aussie Breeders are just starting to find out, now that the private and public are legally allowed to keep reptiles in captivity and have a commercial industry growing very strongly. First thing that commercialization does is change the food supply because of the rapid rate it needs to be turned)

We've had a 50 year head start with private herpiculture here in the US and our commercial bred rodents are the same for the BHPs as eating only McDonalds everyday for us humans.
These farmed rodents on the whole here in the US are horrible for most species (as some species handle it better than others) But hey, it's what's available right? Nothing you can do about it other than find alternatives for your animals....which I do for my BHPs.


The $5k pair would actually be a good investment for someone with enough experience to breed them successfully, but that's not me.

Actually, that pair on kingsnake would be the same as throwing your money in the toilet....even for experienced keepers....(I've learned the hard way on this.)
Best to buy babies from someone with experience who can tell you how to raise and feed them. Then....and, most likely only then, would you be successful with em.

Oh yeah, sorry to hijack your Carpet post. Looking at it, it defiantly has some IJ blood in it and has a high %age. Most likely a Jag Sib of some sort.

Cheers,
D

[pinefamily]

That's why we mostly breed our own rats, Derek. We know how they have been kept, and what they have been fed.

[toddnbecka]

No need to apologize for contributing good info regardless of the thread title, lol.
Incidentally, there were several other wee carpets at the same seller's table I got this one from that were labelled Jag sibs, but completely different colors and patterns than this red one. Should start taking my camera to the shows...

[pinefamily]

While I can admire their patterning (such as yours), I have to say I'm a purist, and not a fan of jags and such. A very divided topic here in Oz by the way.

[Derek Roddy]

No need to apologize for contributing good info regardless of the thread title, lol.

Word. Haha.


Incidentally, there were several other wee carpets at the same seller's table I got this one from that were labelled Jag sibs, but completely different colors and patterns than this red one. Should start taking my camera to the shows...

Different colors and patterns are to be expected with any carpet python really. Just because some of the others "looked different" doesn't mean that yours wasn't or isn't....it just means it looks different. Looking at your though, defiantly IJ in it. I've produced 100's of IJs (and coastals) over the years and IJ blood is really easy to spot.
Not too many people will breed pure subspecies to pure subspecies unless it was a morph involved....IE Jags....which is common place in the hobby as you know.


IJ Babies
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/DSC02665.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/DSC02665.jpg.html)

At 6 months
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/DSC02794.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/DSC02794.jpg.html)

Cheers,
D

[Derek Roddy]

That's why we mostly breed our own rats, Derek. We know how they have been kept, and what they have been fed.

You're right....that was the Aussies only choice up until about 10 years ago. That's why I said keepers are just now starting to see the effects of feeding rodents to their BHPs over there. But, in general, BHPs will live a shorter life span on rodents and have more reproductive problems than they will on their natural diet....farmed rodents just speed it up several years.

Cheers,
D

[Albert Clark]

You're right....that was the Aussies only choice up until about 10 years ago. That's why I said keepers are just now starting to see the effects of feeding rodents to their BHPs over there. But, in general, BHPs will live a shorter life span on rodents and have more reproductive problems than they will on their natural diet....farmed rodents just speed it up several years.

Cheers,
D

Derek, so what is the natural diet of BHPs w/o having to google it myself? Also, are your prices more friendly than the 1250 that TNB encountered at the Hamburgh show? :blink:

[Derek Roddy]

Derek, so what is the natural diet of BHPs w/o having to google it myself? Also, are your prices more friendly than the 1250 that TNB encountered at the Hamburgh show? :blink:

Natural diet is other reptiles, with Womas and Fierce snakes (Tipans) being a favorite. haha. Frilled Lizards, bearded Dragons, skinks, etc.....all on the menu.

My prices for pairs start at 3050/3250 and go up from there. But, I'm all sold out this year already. I usually don't offer singles unless I have high ratios on either sex.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/derekroddy/BHPbreedings20142015/DSCN9008.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/derekroddy/media/BHPbreedings20142015/DSCN9008.jpg.html)

Cheers,
D

[Albert Clark]

Oh, ok. Then 1250 was a fair price but for a inferior animal. Also, that price was for a single animal and not as healthy as yours. Bloodline and the like. Is fowl a option to keep BHPs healthy or do you recommend a reptile based diet? Thanks. Those are some beauties you have there, sir.

[pinefamily]

Over here the consensus has been to not overfeed a BHP with too large a prey size. And yes, quail and baby chickens are ok too. As would be baby rabbits, which we have yet to try. Personally I baulk at feeding other reptiles to our BHP. We did have to rub skink poop on a rat to get a fussy python eating once.

[toddnbecka]

The "jag sibs" at the table were mainly black and brown banded, completely different than the one I picked up. Also $40 less on the price, which also made me inclined to think they were from a different line.
The jungle/cross I picked up there from the same seller last year has a bit of pink blush on the sides. Is pink an indicator of anything in particular? (Naturally, it doesn't show in the pics...)
Indoors with a flash, washed out a bit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060672_zpsswgkxmw5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060672_zpsswgkxmw5.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060579_zpshehompv1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060579_zpshehompv1.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/toddnbecka/Snakes/P1060657_zpsn9i2udff.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/toddnbecka/media/Snakes/P1060657_zpsn9i2udff.jpg.html)

[Derek Roddy]

That's a nice jungle cross. Very pretty and clean.

You have to remember that just because your animal looks different to the other ones you saw labled "Jag Sib"...doesn't mean that yours would not be one. Price, etc......all that is moot because your animal most likely came from a different source than the others.
Couple that with the fact that some Jag breeders simply label the sibs as the crosses they are and leave the (jag) description out of it.

Your animal is defiantly an IJ cross of some sort (regardless of what it was labeled as wholesalers sometimes "guess" when they don't get lineage)

Being that it is a cross....Logic tells us (at this point in the carpet python keeping hobby) that it most likely came from a jag breeding. Of course we can't know for sure but, I know most of the breeders that wholesale Carpets and the crosses they produce all come from Jag or some other morph breeding.

In the carpet world, breeding subspecies together to make crosses is highly frowned upon. It's a quick way to kill your reputation with the other breeders so, most keepers avoid doing it outside of the morphs and usually where the crosses in the "pet stores and vendor tables" come from....morph breedings.

That's not a bad thing at all unless they aren't represented properly or no lineage info is given and, we end up with threads like these. That's why (if you want something other than a cool pet) it's better to buy from breeders who can tell you this stuff without guessing. Otherwise, it really doesn't matter. Haha.

They're both smokin animals.

Cheers,
D

[toddnbecka]

Good to have some idea of what to expect as far as the adult size, I was thinking the jungle cross may have been part coastal. The IJ's are a much smaller breed than coastals, and won't need as much space to be comfortable. I'm not planning to keep them in tubs, prefer to build wooden enclosures for them.

So the reptile community is much like the fish/aquarium community (been into that most of my life, relatively new to reptiles) regarding mixed breeding. I've seen some downright deformed results of crossing different cichlids, the parrot cichlids are a good example. On the really extreme end, I'm just happy that they haven't gotten around to genetically engineering "glo snakes" yet, lol.

One thing I don't see though, it seems less likely that reptiles would be accidentally or unintentionally crossed the same way as a tankful of fish in the hands of an inexperienced keeper. One doesn't (usually anyway) simply toss a random group of snakes together then later discover that one or more are expecting, or simply wake up to a new crop of babies one day.

I do plan on breeding the Dominican boas, and have pure breeding stock from several different lines to work with for the sake of genetic diversity. I picked my two carpets up because I liked them, and I have nothing against keeping "mutts", though I don't breed them myself.

[pinefamily]

Well put, Derek.