When to handle and when to leave alone?

[cyanide]

Hi everyone this is my first post!
I have a dear little coastal (first snake) who I have just started handling regularly as she has grown out of being a nippy baby.
15 months old, humidity and temperatures regulated, feeding on hopper mice every 5 days (on a diet...), recent vet visit and very healthy. I do not handle at least 36 hours after feeding or when in shed.
This is my problem - we have started handling daily except for after feedings and usually when I pick off the hide and hook her I can gently slide my hand under and lift her out. As soon as she is out - no worries.
But twice she has freaked out a little and tried to flee, tangling herself around something in the tank. The first time this happened I persevered trying to get her off a branch and she struck so I left her be. It happened again about a week later so I just left her be. Should I be persevering in these cases (so she doesn't get the idea that escaping/striking will get her left alone?) Or just leaving her for the day when she is stressed. We have only been at it a few weeks, made great progress but still have a ways to go. Thanks so much!

[cyanide]

I should say; she has "freaked out" every time but I have managed to gently remove her after a minute or so. I mean when she flies to the other end of the tank and she roots herself in there around something...
Also is it ok to let them wrap their whole body around your wrist? She did it the first time and i struggled to get her off (she almost ties a knot so I can't simply unravel by the tail) then I stopped letting her throw any coils around my wrist. Then I read that it is ok to have a few coils so they feel more stable but yesterday she got entirely around my wrist again in such a way I could not remove her without using enough force to hurt her. She goes through short bursts of squeezing HARD with all her might, so much so her head is shaking from the exertion and then relaxing slightly. I just relaxed with her on there for a while then it was time to put her away so I held my wrist in the tank until eventually in one quick movement flew off me haha. Also she has a massive freak out every time I put her back in.

[Mmrseed]

Your snake might be "freaking out" because you just woke it up. I also believe you should never just reach in and try and take an arboreal snake out unless you can take the whole branch it's on that way it won't see you as a threat. Or alternately adjust your holding times to when the snake is already active. Just turn his lights off earlier and when he gets active stick you hand in there and give him something new to climb on. Or, like I said, Just take the whole branch out and hold the branch with the snake on it and it will come to you. We have 2 green trees and a baby irian jaya and have never been bit or struck at but more importantly the snakes never get stressed

[Albert Clark]

Try to get in the habit of not handling the reptile when you find them in their hide. If you take the hide off of them and see them there just put the hide back over them and wait for a time when they are cruising or in a corner and already outside the hide. Just my 0.02 cents. Remember these are captive animals with wild instincts. They are just being snakes.

[cyanide]

Very interesting; I always thought it was better to handle during the day when she is lethargic. I feel like if I put my hand in the tank when she's out of a hide she will get defensive. Usually after I remove her from the hide she's totally fine once out. She's never struck when out of her tank. I make sure she is awake and knows I'm there before using the hook around a loop. Then I just gently pull until I can slide my hand under and pull her out. I am feeding tonight so will try getting her out when she is cruising in a few days!
Any thought on the constricting my wrist? Not sure if it is ok to let her do it or not.

[pinefamily]

The squeezing is just another sign your coastal is nervous. A couple of our Darwin's used to do the same, until they got more relaxed with being held. Same with the defensive attitude in her tank. Try leaving her for a couple of days, and when she is out and about in her tank, change her water, or pick up her poop. That way, she will get used to your hand. Alternatively, you can leave the tank open, and see if she will come out to explore by herself.
It will take time, and the best thing you can do is be patient, and stay calm. Snakes sense nervousness.

[cyanide]

That's a good idea; I'll try that! I've had her for a year and I've always made a point of changing water / spot cleaning while she's hidden. Now that I've started handling she seems to be quite afraid of getting picked up haha, although she is always surprisingly calm while out. Thanks so much for the help everyone!

[pinefamily]

I'm surprised your coastal is striking; our two are absolute puppydogs. My wife has even called them Cuddles and Snuggles.
BTW, like I said above, don't worry about the wrapping around your wrist; unless of course she has sunk her teeth into! Then it's a food response, and that tickles......

[cyanide]

hahaha, I was VERY surprised when she struck at me that one time recently, it's what prompted me to ask about it on here ;) I remember the baby bites when she was 3 months old - never even knew she bit me till I saw the mark, can't even feel it.
She's always just very gentle and curious and looking for places to hide.
Yeah, I wasn't too worried as she never tries to bite, only when I allow her to get a few coils around she'll completely do herself around me and squeeze. I'm not too worried. Happy to let her do it until she figures out I'm not a predator, just a soft warm tree :)

[pinefamily]

At least she's a coastal, and not a jungle. They are known to be cage defensive, and nippy. And some never grow out of it, like our girl, who is about 8 yrs old, and flighty and nervous still. She was a rescue though, so we don't know her full background.
Any chance of a photo of your girl?

[cyanide]

Of course!
Fancy camera shot
http://i.imgur.com/MndTWV4.jpg
Playing around!
http://i.imgur.com/Ql9Njno.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kioPvur.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dTmwPjl.jpg
And blanket python (my fav pun)
http://i.imgur.com/5m11SQG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gDAGnpj.jpg

[cyanide]

Update: Set her light to switch off earlier so she's been getting earlier. Changed her water the last 2 nights while she's been about - first night was a little defensive and this evening wasn't bothered at all. I stuck my hand in there with her for 10 minutes, after a little while she approached me and tongue flicked around my hand before retreating. Gonna try lifting out the stick tomorrow!

[prairiepanda]

It sounds like your old strategy was turning handling into a very negative experience for the snake; being woken up suddenly and chased around. By waiting for a time when the snake is out and active and interested in exploring, you're offering a more positive experience where he snake won't be startled or uncertain of what's happening. Snakes usually want to come out and explore, and if they find out that you're the way to accomplish that and you aren't scary, they'll come out with ease.

[cyanide]

You're right - this actually makes so much more sense. Not trying to justify it but I watched many videos and read things on the internet which spoke of removing the hide and getting them out. It does seem like a really stupid thing to do now that you guys have explained it... Wish I came on here when I first bought her! Thanks so much for the advice everybody I will let you know how we go tonight! She is such a lovely gentle girl, my heart was melting when she came up to my hand last night

[ManSlaughter33]

My boa is opposite. She comes out fine handles fine.. It's putting her back. It's like putting a cat in the tub. grabs any edge possible to stay out lol.
I think she just doesnt like the lowering motion and she likes being up high though.

[cyanide]

hahaha, Medusa is like that too but both ways, she'll grab any edge of her lock/ opening to stay in then she will do the same thing to stay out :p Like children and baths.

[Sylphie]

hahaha, Medusa is like that too but both ways, she'll grab any edge of her lock/ opening to stay in then she will do the same thing to stay out :p Like children and baths.

Exactly what my normal corn is doing every single time!

[Sasha2]

Can I ask why she is only eating hopper mice? My guy is less then three months old and inhales a hopper no problem. I would think a 15 mnth old would want bigger prey then hopper mice..I was told to switch to rat fuzzies too which are much bigger then hoppers.I havent yet because they seem a bit big but was going to try next feeding.
Looking at the pictures she is three times as big as my guy too.
Now Im confused.

[pinefamily]

Good point, Sasha2. Missed that with the handling issue.
Cyanide, you will find Medusa will be a lot calmer with the appropriate food size. Why is she on a diet? She doesn't look overweight. By the photos,she could even get a weaner rat down.

[malgus]

Unless its to clean out the cage I dont usually take mine out physically.
I open the cage and wait for her to come to me when shes ready. Takes her around 5 minutes to do it but its always on her terms

[cyanide]

Sorry for super late reply!
I believe she WAS overweight, (could see skin between her scales, plus her body looked HUGE compared to her neck/head). She seems a good weight now and vet said she is perfect so I have put her onto rats. I only got little ones as she'd never had rats before and I'd rather she reject a smaller one than a larger one. I'll get bigger ones when these are done and just continue feeding every 5 days. (plus it's winter here)
I've been leaving my hand in the tank for 30min / changing her waters while shes roaming almost daily and while she rarely seems ready to strike she doesn't seem to want to come closer haha. I do want to clean her tank in a few days and am feeding her tonight. Would it be ok for a slightly more "hands-on" approach now she is used to my hand in there? I mean something like pulling out the stick she is on or hooking her from the corner of the tank/on top of the hide. (48 hours after she has eaten of course!) I really want to get back to handling, and be able to remove her for cleaning / any sort of emergency without stress.

[pinefamily]

Some snakes always seem to put up a bit of a struggle when trying to get them out. And some never get used to handling, but these are few and far between. Our big MD boy rarely is keen to come out, holding on to anything in reach, but once out is one of our calmest.
I'd keep putting your hands in there when she's roaming, and then after feeding/digesting time, simply pick her up when she's out of her hide. She may still struggle, but hopefully the striking is gone. Calmness and persistence from you is the key.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

[cyanide]

Haha I think that's going to be the case with her too. Seriously, even her first time being handled properly she put up such a fight coming out but was soo chill, not a hint of a strike position or anything, just mosying around me looking for places to hide. I'm not worried at all about her temperament while handling I just want being removed to be as stress free for her as possible. She's eating right this minute so I'll try picking her up in a few days.

[prairiepanda]

If she does end up continuing to strongly resist being taken out despite all your efforts(after a few weeks of this acclimatization strategy) I would suggest you get her a hide that is fully enclosed except for the entrance. That way, you can take her out by just taking out the entire hide with her inside and avoid all the stress for both her and you. I'd do this as a last resort, though, because even though it would be quite useful for cleaning, rehousing, and other maintenance, it wouldn't help any with vet visits.

Good luck!

[cyanide]

Funny you should say that! She used to have a hide that was like a cave system inside she would tuck herself in somuch I would just take out the hide and put it in a box for cleaning. She has two she can do that with but I've removed them to make handling easier. So I've got those in my arsenal if all else fails!

[Sasha2]

Ive just been using a hook for my little nipper. Once he is out I just lay him on my hand and he is fine as long as I dont move fast. I hope he tames way down before he gets as big as yours. My guy is still really small.