Enclosure size for large colubrids?

[SeaStorm]

I'm interested in keeping some large colubrids in a year or two so I want to make sure I'm prepared. Right now, I'm trying to figure out enclosure sizes. I'm particulary interested in Beauty, King Rat, Tiger, etc. snakes and I do know they get quite big.

Would an enclosure that is 48L X 23W X 14H be good for a large colubrid? I was actually thinking about buying an enclosure this size and then sectioning it off and give them more and more space as they grow.

Also, I've heard of some people keeping pairs together as they grow, is this recommended at all for any of the large colubrids?

Thanks!

[SeaStorm]

Oh and I was thinking to use a radiated heat panel on half of the enclosure and then insert a light (that emits no heart to mimic the day/night cycle). Would that be fine?

[Sasha2]

I think it would be tight but thats me, especially when they get 8 or even 9ft. I had a pair of taiwan beautys and they are fairly active.But super cool.They were super tiny when I got them and kept in shoebox size tubs when they were babies(they mostly just hide until they get some size).
I think with some of the large active colubrids its up to what you can afford to give them, especially the more arboreal species.
Keep looking at how others keep their adults and get ideas of what you think they need and you can give them.

[SeaStorm]

I think it would be tight but thats me, especially when they get 8 or even 9ft. I had a pair of taiwan beautys and they are fairly active.But super cool.They were super tiny when I got them and kept in shoebox size tubs when they were babies(they mostly just hide until they get some size).
I think with some of the large active colubrids its up to what you can afford to give them, especially the more arboreal species.
Keep looking at how others keep their adults and get ideas of what you think they need and you can give them.

Thanks for the reply! And if you don't mind me asking, how did you heat the tubs? And what was their growth rate like?

[Roman]

I suppose by „tiger“ you mean tiger ratsnake (Spilotes pullatus)? If so, an enclosure of this size would be suitable only for hatchlings of any of the three colubrids you mentioned. The floor space would be OK for semiadult snakes up to ca. 6 ft, but the height is too small.

I have no personal experience with king ratsnakes (Elaphe carinata), but I kept a male Taiwan beauty snake (Orthriophis taeniurus friesei) for 18 years and I keep Spilotes pullatus since 2009. Spilotes is at least semiaboricol, so they need a lot of climbing space and a lot of branches. Beauty snakes do also like to climb so if you add some branches they will use them. I suppose the same is true with the king rats.

You have to understand that all of the mentioned colubrids are very active snakes. They will use every inch of space you provide them with. Of course you might keep them alive in a much smaller enclosure, but you would deprive them (and yourself) their activity, they would just lie somewhere without moving much (where should they move?).

This enclosure has a good size for many medium sized colubrids like kingsnakes, milksnakes, cornsnakes (for them it could also be higher), Russian ratsnakes, garter snakes, water snakes etc., but if you want to keep large colubrids like the three you mentioned you need a larger enclosure.

I keep 2,1 tiger ratsnakes in an enclosure of 250 x 90 x 150 cm (ca. 8 x 3 x 5 ft / 98 x 35 x 59 in). For more detailed information have a look

here --> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-colubrid-forum/95024-spilotes-pullatus.html

and here --> http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/general-colubrid-forum/107218-my-spilotes-pullatus-update.html

As you can see, I keep three of them together without any problem. The same is true for beauty snakes. I don’t know about king ratsnakes, but since they also eat other snakes I would probably keep them separate.

An additional remark about lighting. These snakes are diurnal, so they like bright daylight to be active. I do also provide some UV light for my Spilotes, I don’t know if they really need it, but they like to bask beneath it. If you use some metal hybrid light you might not need any additional heating, I have some RHP in my enclosure, but they are offline since 2 years.


Roman

[eminart]

For reference, I'm currently building a 6'x2' enclosure for my male indigo which will be similar in size to the snakes you've listed. This is the minimum size recommended. I WISH I could do 8'x2' or 8'x3' but I just don't have the space right now. Four feet long seems a bit small for an 8'+ snake to me, especially if it's a more active species.

[Obsidian_Dragon]

This enclosure has a good size for many medium sized colubrids like kingsnakes, milksnakes, cornsnakes (for them it could also be higher), Russian ratsnakes, garter snakes, water snakes etc., but if you want to keep large colubrids like the three you mentioned you need a larger enclosure.


I wouldn't lump Russian rats in with those--they can get bigger, and are also semi-arboreal and very active. 48L X 23W X 14H would be too small for an adult Russian.

(Although mine, amusingly, has settled down a little bit ever since I gave her nice, deep substrate to dig in. She's still out cruising more than most snakes, though.)

[sirtalis]

@Roman, I really like your post, I keep my leopard geckos In a 20 gallon enclosure, but I'm moving them to a 4x2x2. I think that any reptike, if given the space will utilize every inch, I really feel for ball pythons kept in a rack system.

[trailblazer295]

Ummm am I reading this right a 4x2x2 terrarium for a 6" lizard?????

[SnoopySnake]

Ummm am I reading this right a 4x2x2 terrarium for a 6" lizard?????

Yes. Whats wrong with that?

[SeaStorm]

Thanks for the responses guys!

@Roman, I really like your post, I keep my leopard geckos In a 20 gallon enclosure, but I'm moving them to a 4x2x2. I think that any reptike, if given the space will utilize every inch, I really feel for ball pythons kept in a rack system.

I wouldn't jump toward the conclusion that a larger space for an animal like a BP is good. Sure, you can give it all the space that you want, however it won't necessarily feel comfortable with them. I've worked with plenty of BPs that had larger enclosures that would get stressed and go off feed until they were placed back into a tub, which for them is a safe secure environment that mimics their burrow in the wild. Many of these snakes, other than diurnal colubrids and other diurnal snakes (which is why I asked this question) won't really feel comfortable given a whole ton of space. Sure, individuals can vary, but it's best to recreate their natural environment, which for BPs is a nice dark, enclosed area with plenty of food.

Then again, everyone has their own opinion, but this is what I observed with animals that I worked with and in the wild.

[Joshchimera]

I was lookin at cages all day, this thread is very informative!

[sirtalis]

Hi guys, i know this thread is old, but i feel that any reptile will use every inch of space provided, most people keep their reptiles relatively low temperatures, last weekend i tried to catch a texas spiny lizard, the guy was insanely fast, much faster than any captive animal ive ever seen. I took my temp gun out in my back yard and checked the areas ive seen them commonly bask, the temperature they readily used were intense, 150-190. I raised my geckos basking from 110, to 140, they readily used it the next day and since then they spend several hours of the day climbing their plants and digging more burrows, once i move them ill increase the temp to 160, and add extra plants, also a 4x2x2 is about a 90 gallon cage, it just has more floor space. I bet if everyone raised their basking spots, not the overall ambient temp, the activity levels would increase.

[trailblazer295]

That's very interesting.

[jjhill001]

As you can see, I keep three of them together without any problem. The same is true for beauty snakes. I don’t know about king ratsnakes, but since they also eat other snakes I would probably keep them separate.

An additional remark about lighting. These snakes are diurnal, so they like bright daylight to be active. I do also provide some UV light for my Spilotes, I don’t know if they really need it, but they like to bask beneath it. If you use some metal hybrid light you might not need any additional heating, I have some RHP in my enclosure, but they are offline since 2 years.


Roman

I thought King Ratsnakes were just regular ratsnakes, unrelated to the snake eating Kingsnakes of North America.

[Roman]

I thought King Ratsnakes were just regular ratsnakes, unrelated to the snake eating Kingsnakes of North America.

You are quite right, they are not related. The king ratsnake is in the genus Elaphe (Elaphe carinata) whereas your kingsnakes and milksnakes are in the Genus Lampropeltis. Nonetheless the main prey of king ratsnakes in nature are other snakes and lizards, rodents, birds and their eggs are eaten only occasionally.

If I remember correctly there was a report of some research in China where they examined the stomach content of fresh caught snakes. What they found was a variety of different snake species and some cases of cannibalism where a king ratsnake had eaten a smaller snake of the same species.

From what I read it might be possible to keep a pair of them together, but only if both snakes are of similar size, but even than I would seriously consider to keep them separately.

Roman