When do you know when to treat?

[Derek1]

This is my WC Texas Rat. I know the WC argument and not looking for that.

He/She seems healthy. Great eater. And growing like a weed. Per my exam tonight I see no obvious problems. But read about the internal para's on here and searching. I've read good and bad info about treating internal. Mostly good. Question is do you treat automatically or wait and see if an issue arises?

http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/Derekmeredith/6876AA3D-12B4-4A62-9700-7B37AE95AC05_zpslvqoblip.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/Derekmeredith/187BD90F-E376-439E-BD60-4DE75CBE2952_zps2ungjqap.jpg

[SSSSnakes]

I always wait to see if there is a problem before I give medication for no reason. I have had w/c that did not need to be treated.

[sirtalis]

I've had a wc skink for a long time, never needed any medication, always eats like a champ

[jjhill001]

If your snake isn't sick I wouldn't worry about it.

[DDW]

Quick question... what does "wc" mean?

[Minkness]

It means wild caught and cbb means captive bred

[Aaron_S]

It means wild caught and cbb means captive bred

I call this a teachable moment.

Correct, WC means Wild Caught.

Partially correct in that CBB means captive bred. You're missing the second "b".

Oh about 15+ years ago there were a lot more wild caught and farmed babies so we had to designate them.

WC = wild caught. Means the animal came from the wild. Simple enough.

CB or CH = Captive Born/Captive Hatched. Means the gravid female was collected from the wild, kept until they laid eggs or had babies then released again. Eggs were incubated at the farm. Or the eggs were collected and artificially incubated.

CBB = Captive Born and Bred. Means true blue as we know them today "captive bred" animals.

[DDW]

I call this a teachable moment.

Correct, WC means Wild Caught.

Partially correct in that CBB means captive bred. You're missing the second "b".

Oh about 15+ years ago there were a lot more wild caught and farmed babies so we had to designate them.

WC = wild caught. Means the animal came from the wild. Simple enough.

CB or CH = Captive Born/Captive Hatched. Means the gravid female was collected from the wild, kept until they laid eggs or had babies then released again. Eggs were incubated at the farm. Or the eggs were collected and artificially incubated.

CBB = Captive Born and Bred. Means true blue as we know them today "captive bred" animals.

Thank you for the abbreviation lesson ^.=.^

btw, does the health/temperament differ from CB and CBB? just curious and I'm greatful for your response ^.=.^

[Aaron_S]

Thank you for the abbreviation lesson ^.=.^

btw, does the health/temperament differ from CB and CBB? just curious and I'm greatful for your response ^.=.^

Great question. Tough to really say. CB was better than WC for parasites, mites and ticks. You still dealt with some of the feeding issues of WC and some of the temper.

Most snake species do seem better in temper after captive breeding.

[Sasha2]

I personally would take a wait and see. But if I had other snakes or was considering breeding in the future then I might go ahead and at least deworm.
Looks pretty healthy to me though, nice and young too.
Ive been looking for a juvi black rat, see lots of adults but no youngsters.

[prairiepanda]

btw, does the health/temperament differ from CB and CBB? just curious and I'm greatful for your response ^.=.^

Generally, CB and CBB of most species are pretty much the same as far as temperament, assuming they're raised in the same conditions. (some species are exceptions to this, though, especially amongst reptiles) As for health; if the mother of CB animals had some dietary deficiency or parasites, these could affect the health of offspring. Usually they turn out just fine, though.

[reptiledude987]

I had a friend who got some wc snakes a couple years ago and treated for parasites before they were fully settled in and ended up loosing them. this year hes goint to wait at least 12 months before treating anything were getting in for parasites. Granted the order is coming from the other side of the world and yours is from locally then there will be a big difference in stress levels but it shouldnt need to be rushed if its growing well.

[Derek1]

Thanks for the replies! I'm not big on WC's but couldn't pass up a juvi Texas Rat that I caught myself. And I probably wouldn't pass up a baby Yellow Belly Racer, which I damn near caught, but didn't.

I'll wait and see.

[jjhill001]

Thanks for the replies! I'm not big on WC's but couldn't pass up a juvi Texas Rat that I caught myself. And I probably wouldn't pass up a baby Yellow Belly Racer, which I damn near caught, but didn't.

I'll wait and see.

Racers have A MUCH MORE DIFFICULT time adjusting to captivity than rat snakes. They need very large enclosures especially when wild caught. I would highly recommend against catching and keeping wild snakes.

[DDW]

Great question. Tough to really say. CB was better than WC for parasites, mites and ticks. You still dealt with some of the feeding issues of WC and some of the temper.

Most snake species do seem better in temper after captive breeding.

Makes sense :)

[DDW]

Generally, CB and CBB of most species are pretty much the same as far as temperament, assuming they're raised in the same conditions. (some species are exceptions to this, though, especially amongst reptiles) As for health; if the mother of CB animals had some dietary deficiency or parasites, these could affect the health of offspring. Usually they turn out just fine, though.

Some really good points here ^.=.^ thanks

[Albert Clark]

The biggest sign that a snake needs treatment for a parasite load is inappetance (no appetite). Other signs can include diarrhea , listlessness , and depending on the specific parasite regurgitation and or vomiting. There can also be a bloody diarrhea in some cases. It is assumed that all w/c reptiles have parasites but only really need treatment if they are symptomatic. Parasite loads are tolerated but only need medication if they get out of control and cause symptoms in the animal.

[Aaron_S]

I had a friend who got some wc snakes a couple years ago and treated for parasites before they were fully settled in and ended up loosing them. this year hes goint to wait at least 12 months before treating anything were getting in for parasites. Granted the order is coming from the other side of the world and yours is from locally then there will be a big difference in stress levels but it shouldnt need to be rushed if its growing well.

So why "treat for parasites" at all after 12 months? Sounds silly to me. If it's still alive and doing well I don't see the likelihood of any parasites at all.

[prairiepanda]

So why "treat for parasites" at all after 12 months? Sounds silly to me. If it's still alive and doing well I don't see the likelihood of any parasites at all.

Many parasites can lay dormant for longer than 12 months. Toxoplasma, for example, has been known to survive in dormancy for 30 years or more in humans(they do not attack reptiles, however; I'm not familiar enough with reptilian parasites to provide a specific example) So I wouldn't assume that a WC snake is parasite-free after any length of time. However, I also wouldn't bother treating for parasites unless the animal actually became ill. I guess after 12 months you can be fairly sure that the animal is healthy and unstressed enough to survive treatment, but I still wouldn't risk it personally. Not with reptiles, anyway. With mammals I'd feel better about preventative treatment simply because mammalian medicine, with regards to very common pet/farm mammals anyway, has been much more thoroughly researched.

[Aaron_S]

Many parasites can lay dormant for longer than 12 months. Toxoplasma, for example, has been known to survive in dormancy for 30 years or more in humans(they do not attack reptiles, however; I'm not familiar enough with reptilian parasites to provide a specific example) So I wouldn't assume that a WC snake is parasite-free after any length of time. However, I also wouldn't bother treating for parasites unless the animal actually became ill. I guess after 12 months you can be fairly sure that the animal is healthy and unstressed enough to survive treatment, but I still wouldn't risk it personally. Not with reptiles, anyway. With mammals I'd feel better about preventative treatment simply because mammalian medicine, with regards to very common pet/farm mammals anyway, has been much more thoroughly researched.

Thanks for the tip on dormancy.

My line of thinking was that of the life cycle of parasites in reptiles and how they harbour them.

For those who may not be familiar it goes like this. Let's assume our reptile in question already has the parasites.
Once it poops. Bugs use it for their purposes in the parasite laden poop. Another small animal may eat those bugs ingesting the same parasites and then the snake eats that animal and gains the same parasites back. They lay eggs in the snake and then get passed with the poop once again and the cycle repeats.

It means to me, that if we keep our animals cages clean and feed them non-contaminated prey items that the parasites will "cure" themselves IF we keep proper husbandry for our animals.

I agree with you that if the animal is ill then it's time to treat for parasites. Far too often we fail in husbandry and blame the parasites.

[reptiledude987]

Thats some good info. Ill keep that in midn when the order arrives in late july early august. see what kind of shape theyre in and go from there.

[jjhill001]

Many parasites can lay dormant for longer than 12 months. Toxoplasma, for example, has been known to survive in dormancy for 30 years or more in humans(they do not attack reptiles, however; I'm not familiar enough with reptilian parasites to provide a specific example) So I wouldn't assume that a WC snake is parasite-free after any length of time. However, I also wouldn't bother treating for parasites unless the animal actually became ill. I guess after 12 months you can be fairly sure that the animal is healthy and unstressed enough to survive treatment, but I still wouldn't risk it personally. Not with reptiles, anyway. With mammals I'd feel better about preventative treatment simply because mammalian medicine, with regards to very common pet/farm mammals anyway, has been much more thoroughly researched.

The thing is, that said "dormant parasites" don't show themselves until something happens that compromises the immune system. So if your snake doesn't have something happens that compromises it then it will remain healthy. The reason that WC animals are known for parasite infestations is because the stress of capture, combined with bad husbandry before sale to the end customer causes the animal to get sick. Thus allowing the balance between snake and parasite to get out of whack.